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12:00 AM
@Mysticial So, you return an "exception" object from each function call that crosses the DLL boundary?
 
@Mikhail Yeah. I have a proof of concept that where all DLL functions return a raw exception pointer. If the pointer is null, no exception and the program runs normally. If the exception is non-null, then read the exception code from it. Using that code as the lookup key, go to the global hash table to grab the corresponding factory. The factory then takes the raw stream and constructs the exception on the spot and rethrows it. But prior to re-throwing it, it frees the pointer.
 
user406009
@Mysticial At that point, why not go full on with error codes and no exceptions?
 
@Lalaland We can only assume he gets paid by the line :-)
 
You have one problem left, allocating on one side and freeing on the other side. So you need to include a deleter function pointer with the raw exception C object.
@Lalaland If the exception needs to contain other information like a message.
 
user406009
@Mysticial Well, the error object could contain both a code and a string message.
 
user406009
12:04 AM
The main thing that is hard is the stack traces.
 
Or just a code, and then you god damn look it up, possibly on the host side.
 
Like I said. It's very object ugly and complicated. But it's possible.
 
user406009
@Mikhail When you go full error codes, it's useful to be able to attach string messages.
 
user406009
Showing which particular JSON failed to parse and whatnot.
 
@Mikhail You're locked to a finite number of exceptions. You won't be able to pass entire objects through.
 
12:06 AM
@Lalaland So issue unique error codes and have a function in the DLL that decodes them
 
Got some error messages with "redefinition" error for ALOT of functions that dont really has "redefinition" some one got an idea what it might be?
an*
 
@Mikhail Let's say your exception needs to contain an ip address, a user name, and the user-entered string that caused the exception? Error codes won't work here.
 
user406009
@DeBanana Questions go in chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/116940/c, let's move there.
 
@Mysticial you can store that info on the host dll. Have a function called "error_to_string"
 
@Mikhail How is that any different from serializing/deserializing?
 
12:08 AM
@Mysticial its on the host dll, so it takes up less room
 
@Mikhail Fundamentally, it's the same thing. You're just delaying the transfer. You also need to keep a database on the DLL-side of what exceptions are still live.
My approach preserves more of the C++ semantecs. So you can do polymorphic try-catch across the DLL boundary.
But it's also more complicated.
 
What we really need is an OS/language level solution, so that we can just throw them without fear.
 
user406009
@Mikhail Wouldn't that require a pretty strict standardization of the C++ ABI?
 
about god damn time
or at least at the compiler level
 
user406009
@Mikhail Well, the issue is also the standard libraries.
 
user406009
12:14 AM
Like you need the exact same std::string ABI thingy.
 
The real issue is how to modify the C calling convention to return exceptions, do you just waste a register?
 
user406009
@Mikhail I don't think that would really help though.
 
user406009
You would need to standardize everything.
 
I just don't know how to do it
Can't standardize before we figure out how to do it
 
Even without standardizing the layout of standard library types ABI compatibility would be great though.
Certainly limited. I wouldn't be too happy about missing use of unique_ptr for one, but considerably preferable to nothing.
Of course it would probably unleash a curse of a thousand intermediary types meant to convert to and from the standard library. :/
 
12:38 AM
Though for some of them there would be an obvious way or two to do it, like the contiguous containers
 
@jaggedSpire Or we could all just use COM! :-) Oh, but somehow every time I get close to finishing my Linux port of COM, my computer dies, almost like it's going into rebellion or something...
Didn't we have a Feed to tell us about SO announcements like this?
> We will be upgrading our primary database servers at 01:00 UTC, this will cause a brief offline period as we failover to backup systems.
So does upgrading mean they're finally going to switch from MS SQL to Postgresql? :-)
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin What does a linux port of COM even mean?
 
user406009
Wouldn't just using the C abi be better?
 
@Lalaland Do you mean what would the effect be, or what would it involve, or ...?
@Lalaland Open to question. Probably depend on what sort of "stuff" you wanted to build. Realistically, it would probably be better to (for example) port D-bus to Windows.
 
user406009
Well, the purpose of COM is to provide a cross-language ABI for accessing lots of object oriented APIs IIRC.
 
user406009
12:51 AM
In Linux, it seems like it would be simplest to use the C ABI as your cross-language ABI.
 
@Lalaland But that doesn't give you anything even vaguely object oriented (among other things). It also doesn't give you things like automatically locating and starting up a server based on the service you request. COM has a lot of shortcomings, but it honestly does provide some useful capabilities (that just the C abi doesn't attempt to provide at all).
D-Bus does provide at least some of the same kinds of capabilities as COM, and may well be cleaner (not to mention all the code is public, which most of it probably isn't for COM).
 
user406009
Interesting. I guess I should look more into D-Bus and COM.
 
They are more like frameworks to avoid rolling your own message passing scheme. COM is particularly bad because it goes around the standard build process.
 
1:14 AM
darn. I got all the way through thumb-typing out a response on my phone, realized it was too long, accidentally deleted half of it while trying to cut it to paste after pt. 1, and then lost my train of thought on the way home to my laptop. :|
I am unfamiliar with mobile interfaces you see
oh there we go
 
Hello, World!
 
with ABI compatibility you could transmit enough information to reconstruct std types on the other side of a boundary
 
user406009
@Code-Apprentice Hi.
 
it would result in unnecessary copies, but could offer a more fool-proof version of the c-style interface presently used, and if the copies proved to be an issue it would be meant as an intermediary between two different library implementations on different compilers--recompile with the same implementation and you'd be good
 
@Lalaland What's happening tonight in the Lounge?
 
1:23 AM
sort of like the GSL does with span and string_span
 
have you newly found a lot of happiness?
 
I'm trying to be more optimistic
 
user406009
@Code-Apprentice Not much. The lounge is almost always quiet at this time of night.
 
I haven't been to the Lounge for a while, so I dunno the current comings and goings of the regulars any more.
 
having a transition type would let different implementations for different compilers (or the same implementation with different optimizations for different compilers) communicate with relatively little pain for the end user without forcing the implementers to do mean things to their optimizations to satisfy some intrusive global constraints
We already break down information to cross that gulf. Having ABI compatibility would narrow it some, even without library compatibility. With intermediaries of some standard layout defined for even the more common library types, it would close further
 
user406009
1:31 AM
@jaggedSpire A transition type? Sorta like raw pointers and plain C structs?
 
user406009
Seems like our current system is fine.
 
@Lalaland except slightly more idiot-proof
and templatable?
and you'd be able to move class objects across the boundary as well, so long as the class implementation didn't depend on standard library types without a defined layout
 
user406009
@jaggedSpire The only template you need is void* :P
 
@Lalaland breaks out in hives
 
1:44 AM
The new xkcd reminds me a lot of how new programmers learn :D
"Did you know it's easier to get things done if you don't set the house on fire first?" (Learning to use things in the way they're intended)
 
@Lalaland I disagree. I think we're accustomed to it, so we don't notice it so much, but the current system is a pretty serious hindrance.
 
@thepiercingarrow You're thinking of Python :p C++ has nice built-ins, but very little support for the datatypes and I/O that are common in code golf and programming challenges.
 
@Aaron3468 β˜…The More You Knowβ˜…
 
@Aaron3468 Keep in mind that his basis for comparison is C.
 
In that case he'll find C++ a breeze.
 
2:36 AM
Python's nice.
 
2:54 AM
But c is better
3
 
user406009
3:14 AM
@DeBanana What causes you to enjoy C so much?
 
user406009
I mean, it just seems like there are so few reasons to enjoy C more than C++.
 
3:33 AM
Well C++ is even better
haha
 
Python's fun to code, and C++ has great performance. Anyways, here's a nice album
 
4:02 AM
you know I've seen that album in my suggestions for a while but I never clicked
thanks--I quite like it
 
haha, glad you enjoy it! I've been looking for atmospheric music like that for a while
 
4:23 AM
My 8TB Anime drive got full, so I spent the last 2 days cleaning it up. I reorganized them into folders by year of latest episode. I have stuff going all the back to 1984. And my 2013 folder is 1 TB large.
 
4:36 AM
I am not sure going on a weekend hike with a guy who keeps on asking me to be his girlfriend is a good idea
but I really want to do this track
 
I spent the night with a hooker . It costed me like 2K US$. if it matters anyone here.
 
...why would it matter?
its your money and your life and your privates
and your time
 
He was answering to my question
 
...now I'm curious. Which question?
 
just like @jag :p
 
4:45 AM
@Telkitty so very cute!
 
@Telkitty If you aren't against dating, then there's no problem. It'll be fun. On the other hand, if you don't like him at all, just take the hike with somebody else a different week :D
What is that cute animal?
 
Baby Arctic Fox
 
I've never seen markings like those on a fox. Very cute!
 
I am not against dating, I am against a hiking buddy touching me all the times.
 
Ah, no boundaries? Then a different hiking buddy may be necessary =.=
 
5:00 AM
I never told him I wanted to be his girlfriend, and I offered and paid my half of the bills.
@Aaron3468 well, too late now, he has already booked everything
 
@Telkitty Well, best of luck and hopefully he isn't too touchy
 
Maybe it's my fault. I should have told him that I am not interested in him to start with
 
Well you need then someone who would say NO for you if you are not brave enough for this step
 
@Telkitty No not your fault. It sounds like he hasn't learned about boundaries and that's his fault. You'll probably just get the misfortune of being the first person to explain boundaries to him
 
I don't get it - some guys seems to be linking 'willingness to go multi-day hiking with you' with 'interested in you'
does not compute
I am interested in hiking, we have common goals, so let's achieve those goals together
this does not equate to spending the rest of life with you
 
5:18 AM
@Lalaland I enjoy C because it is in the realm of possibility for a single individual to write something akin to a C compiler.
@Telkitty Are you leading them on (the hiking trip)? ;)
@DeBanana Have you checked calloc?
 
@Telkitty It's totally okay to expect mature friendships.
 
@fredoverflow It's also within the realms of possibility for one person to write something (somewhat more distantly) akin to a C++ compiler.
 
A lot of people haven't learned how to separate romantic interest from friendship interest. I find that people older than 40 years old have a much easier time telling the difference
As far as I'm aware, the time-consuming part of writing a compiler is adding optimizations and multi-platform support.
 
topic about C++ seems to be way more interesting than dating and relationships.
3
 
I think it's more relationship with which person against C++ for what problem
sometimes the problem that is more interesting, sometimes it's the person who I love more
 
5:36 AM
ok.then. I give up on this room. see ya sometime in future
 
@ProblemSlover Hello again, it's the future
 
cute fluffs to the rescue!
 
Whoa, those colours don't even look real, but they're cute and vibrant
 
5:58 AM
@Aaron3468 The difference is too subtle for men to notice.
 
Maybe. It's disproportionately guys who have the problem (but some girls)
 
morning
 
6:18 AM
 
6:30 AM
^_^ Fluff
It's interesting to trace the influences on music and game communities. For example, I've noticed many League players play CS:Go and many players of Osu! come from Touhou
 
6:42 AM
Too upset spending first half of the day chasing after incompetent people. Now spending the rest on coding and looking at fluffy animals as well as whining to friend. My life has almost returned to its normal level of calm and happiness
 
My friend is doing renovation too, she relates to my annoyance
 
This lounge is disturbing
Im out
 
bye
don't come back
 
6:59 AM
@Nican Always nice to hear electroswing on occasion
Caravan Palace is pretty cool too
 
7:20 AM
I'm sleepy, so off to bed. Hopefully you have a better day tomorrow kitty
 
LaterZzz
I am hoping for a better day tomorrow too
 
@Telkitty I think men are like that. Especially if it were just the two of you with nobody else.
IMHO this is common complaint of women towards men stemming from complete lack of understanding of men from the women. :)
 
> Couldn't match expected type β€˜r’ with actual type β€˜Horse’
 
@Telkitty OK? I am not sure how is that related to our discussion, though. :)
 
Is there any library like boost.python that exposes C++ types like structs, classes, vector, map etc.. to haskell ?
 
8:27 AM
@Aaron3468 I love electro swing.
 
8:54 AM
Looking for proofreaders for my new C++ book What you have to do and what you get. Look here: http://goo.gl/lxA3Jb #cpp #cplusplus
> Looking for proofreaders for my new C++ book What you have to do and what you get. Look here: goo.gl/lxA3Jb
6
@Telkitty as a policy, it's a simple thing that can help fend of blame in the off-chance... So companies will do it
 
One of the benefits of having a girlfriend is that I can interact with kids on the street without that happening.
 
nwp
@Telkitty how would people that assume someone to be a pedophile be able to tell that he is unrelated?
@sehe I'm more worried about his C++ than his English
 
@nwp You mean unrelated as in "not a relative"?
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought thats what the word means, now I'm not so sure
 
@nwp I haven't looked much at it yet. I just thought this is a relevant channel for people interested in reviewing C++ books
By default, I worry about c++ :)
 
nwp
9:05 AM
could also mean "not a friend of the family", but the point stands that it is impossible to tell for outsiders
 
user1804599
@sehe The book is not on the book list, so it's shit.
 
@nwp Tickets booked separately pretty much nails it. Also, it was about kids flying /unaccompanied/ so it's a given
@rightfold I agree the list is shit.
 
user1804599
:'(
 
user1804599
loop fusion so difficile
 
@nwp Though FWIW, plenty of pedophiles are family members with the victim.
 
9:07 AM
Yup. It's a classic manifestation of blame culture
It's not about whether it works. It's about being able to plead away responsibility.
 
did you just blame blame culture
 
nwp
Also "assume to be a pedophile" isn't necessarily bad. When I drive near children I assume they will jump in front of the car any second now, even though they never do. It could just be heightened awareness.
 
Nope. I just observed it and used it to explain why authorities take irrational measures
I'm fine with it, as long as we keep in mind that it's bullocks
@nwp You can keep hoping, of course
 
nwp
@sehe hoping children don't jump in front of the car or hoping the pedophile assumption is benign?
 
@Mysticial Are you a shareholder now?
I noticed the product placement
@nwp :)
 
9:23 AM
@nwp I think there's an important distinction here, but I'm struggling a bit to nail it.
 
I don't children will mistaken your car as a pedophile
 
I guess it boils down to the fact that assuming children will jump in front of the car is a concern borne out of consideration for them directly and it carries no implication of ill intent, while assuming someone is a pedophile is the opposite.
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe because driving slower doesn't have overly negative consequences while hating people by default kinda does.
 
Yeah, that too.
 
nwp
@Telkitty I'm a bit late, but you can keep to guys in fixed relationships. There is a chance the wife/gf will start hating you, but at least there is no touching involved.
 
9:29 AM
@nwp Well...
Unless there is, right?
 
my code crashed at start
twice
 
Btw, to you fokes following up the standardization process: do I have to update this answer? stackoverflow.com/a/17106065/46642 /cc @Luc @Griwes
 
I’m not really up to date
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't recall anything Unicode-related getting passed recently.
 
Ok.
I updated it anyway, because it said "17 years ago" and that was 3 years ago.
 
9:38 AM
The latest thing that existed was this: open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0353r0.html
Let me try to see if it was discussed at all in Oulu.
...it was, and there's quite a lot of notes.
 
Are you allowed to share?
(So nothing made it into CD, then?)
Also, what happened with ranges?
 
Nothing really interesting in the notes.
Just a feel of general agreement that in the future char should imply UTF-8.
 
That sounds breaky. There's standard library functionality that already assumes otherwise.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They are, err, being worked on.
 
Even if not, I don't like it. char is already overloaded enough.
If the standard does that, then it officially ends up standing for bytes, for "characters", and for UTF-8 code units depending on context.
 
9:46 AM
Apparently a draft of the ranges TS is expected to be accepted in Issaquah (if I'm reading the spreadsheet on isocpp.org right).
 
If we are to attach UTF-8 to the meaning of some type, I'd rather it be the only meaning. Otherwise it seems rather pointless. It's basically just documenting the status quo. The standard should be prescriptivist, not descriptivist.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's an idea to have a std::byte type thing, but I don't know how that'll go.
OTOH I prefer unsigned char for bytes over char.
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's previous cases of the status quo getting standardized (the rules for POD types that changed in 11 are one, I think).
 
@Griwes But plenty of libraries out there disagree on that :/
 
Yeah. That's painful
 
@Griwes That feels different, but I can't pinpoint why.
 
9:53 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "touché"?
 
boo
 
@nwp That's a very weird claim for any meaning of "touching" that comes to mind
 
nwp
I don't know what meaning you are talking about
 
what if running over kids is your fetish?
Don't you agree that running a kid over could have more crippling results than touching them in other inappropriate ways?
(I'll stop. I'm starting to think like a creep here)
@nwp Partners rape and domestic violence exists. In both cases, I'd say touching is often involved.
 
@sehe I think you will be in prison for actually playing out your fetish
 
9:56 AM
On the other side of the equation, I think sexual child abuse can very much happen without touching (cam sepredators?)
 
nwp
I meant there is no touching involved when a wife/gf hates a woman for spending too much time with her man.
 
Oh. That was not at all clear to me
 
UB crashes ...
the worst of the worst
my life is meaningless
 
10:16 AM
Just popped in to say hi! And I need to get back to work ;) Have a nice day!
 
nwp
I'm such a haxx0r
 
@BartoszKP ain't that sweet
 
@nwp Er, isn't that simply... git reset.
Just doing git reset is non-destructive for the tree. It only destroys metadata (the index)
 
nwp
git reset HEAD~1 was the thing I used
 
Yeah, that only destroys metadata (the branch pointer).
Unless you do --hard the tree is always safe.
 
nwp
10:28 AM
my knowledge of git is very basic, "git uncommit" hadn't come up before
 
yay loanguage lawyer
0
A: Visual C++ initialization inconsistence with gcc and clang

rubenvbIn reading the Standard (C++11 n3485), 12.6.2/9 states that: If a given non-static data member has both a brace-or-equal-initializer and a mem-initializer, the initialization specified by the mem-initializer is performed, and the non-static data member’s brace-or-equal-initializer is ignored....

 
nwp
and some VS bashing for the upvotes too
 
10:52 AM
@nwp FWIW, deep down there are very very few git operations that are truly destructive. I think only git gc.
(Well, there's probably something else that isn't porcelain, but it's extremely unlikely you will use those unless you're doing git development)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, there isn't a way to get back unstaged things after git reset --hard and git clean, right?
 
nwp
I keep stumbling on the problem of not being able to use my tools properly because I'm unwilling to learn them properly. Unfortunately just learning all the tools doesn't seem viable.
 
@Griwes For the former you can fsck to search for the index blobs. It's painful as fuck (and recovery is not with porcelain), but possible.
But you're right about clean.
clean is lossy because it deals with content that isn't in any git objects.
If something is in a git object somewhere, it remains until gc'ed, so you can get it back. It's only a matter of how much effort finding and retrieving those objects will be.
(Putting things in the index creates git objects for them)
 
11:33 AM
> I am a C++ programmer, but I don't get to use most of the interesting features of C++ at work. One of my former colleagues even forgot how to write an assignment operator. Hoping to avoid his fate, I answer C++ questions here to stay sharp.
 
@Morwenn AFAIR this guy works at Google
I'd say this is a good reason to stay paranoid
 
nwp
@Morwenn that is why my game thingy consists mostly of templates and other cool features without actually doing anything
 
> software engineer at Google
Indeed.
 
Ben
I see speculative questions.
on SE.
 
12:00 PM
function gitp { git p$1; }. Now I can use gitp ull.
2
 
85% of the times, my app crashes on start
15% of the times, it doesn't
statistically speaking
with limited sample size
 
That goes together in the same bin as alias got=git and alias gut=git.
 
Xeo
Wasn't there some "I fucked up, fix it" script thing? Literally fuck or sth?
 
nwp
@Telkitty wait for a 15% run, see that all tests are green, ship
 
I guess it should be git p$*; to support additional parameters.
 
12:04 PM
need to fix that 85% ... my code was working fine until I wanted to add some small improvement
then ... ~splash~
 
Xeo
right, that
 
installing
@Griwes YOU SAVED MY LIFE
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
heh, my friend used to troll linkedin with 'you saved my life' as endorsements
other claimed to be a cleaner when his actual job was more like system admin
 
12:11 PM
THIS IS SO AWESOME
 
I must have been doped into this boring life by some marketing people
 
> `java` – removes .java extension when running Java programs;
`javac` – appends missing .java when compiling Java files;
 
Java's consistency at its best
 
> Bundled, but not enabled by default:
(...)
- rm_root – adds --no-preserve-root to rm -rf / command.
That's... scary.
 
Xeo
lol
 
12:22 PM
Also, protip OSX's rm doesn't require --no-preserve-root.
 
Xeo
that's scary
 
that's ancient
 
Learned it just now, by trying.
 
Now excuse me while I go reinstall a few things in /Applications
...
 
12:23 PM
RIP
inb4 YOU DESTROYED MY LIFE
 
I was saved by the competition.
Their product is the very first alphabetically, so that's all I lost.
 
Xeo
lol
 
argh libGDX doesn't separate logic from rendering
 
Also, I've never been so happy that I aliased rm to rm -v.
 
Xeo
wazzat?
 
12:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@Xeo Prints filenames as they are deleted.
 
some Java 2D game framework
 
If I hadn't, I would probably have not realised that stuff was being deleted.
 
Xeo
oh, cool
 
But as soon as the screen started scrolling by, I immediately realised what was I happening.
 
12:26 PM
What was I happening? :)
> LastPass hacked; security compromised for good
And the award for most misleading title goes to...
 
> It turned out sometimes it’s good to be hacked by good hackers!
No shit.
Also, lol, two white hackers
 
@milleniumbug Haha, makes sense.
 
hello folks
2
 
Ell
12:55 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes mine is aliased to trash put
But -v is a brilliant idea
Also mine isn't aliased on root which is terrible
 

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