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user406009
6:05 PM
@milleniumbug Just for you.
 
Ell
@milleniumbug it was for me for a while
 
What is a status page
 
6:25 PM
your face
 
I guess I'll build that server now.
 
Ell
@ThePhD physically?
 
Sexually, obviously.
 
nwp
 
6:39 PM
dude you put the letters over her eyes
 
lol
 
nwp
stupid meme generator doesn't let me move the text
y me no gimp?
@Mysticial I thought of a new meta game. Starring a message costs 1 point + as many stars as it has at the time of starring. Whenever a message you starred gets starred you get a point. Winner is the one with the most points.
don't know if the data is available to calculate points
 
@nwp That's not gonna work because nobody would star anything.
 
is it possible to define a type in a superclass and use it in the base class?
 
nwp
6:44 PM
@cl-porky11 wrong room, try here
 
I was eating a cracker and a it somehow orientied a bit of itself vertically.
I believe it's cracked my tooth because now I can't even drink anything without jaw-crushing pain.
 
cast Summon Dentist
 
reinterpret_cast
 
7:03 PM
@ThePhD Are you sure its the tooth? I ate a dorito once and it broke and a piece of it sliced into my palate. I'm thinking it probably slashed flesh near the tooth rather than the tooth.
Unless it's a hero cracker made of wtv Superman is afraid of
 
@Borgleader When I drink water, the bone feels like its aching.
 
o.O
 
A cracker cracked your tooth? Working as intended?
 
It feels like it got cracked by it.
I mean, it was one of those Matzos crackers. A piece near the corner while I was chewing seemed to get vertical and when I bit down HOLY FUCK AAGHAGHGHH.
I had to pluck it out. ;~;
 
7:22 PM
> Your essay is good, but you forgot a null terminator. Now I'm reading garbage.
 
7:39 PM
@ThePhD ow
 
7:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes have you been stealing faking addresses again
@Puppy thanks
@nwp thanks
@nwp and regarding that
I dare someone to try this in emacs. — addison 16 hours ago
I think the emacs take would at least be saner
That kind of vim fu irks me. It's "bad programme smell" really. I do use all that. But not to do something like that
 
nwp
meh, it's code golf
it exists to give that kind of stuff a home and keep it out of production code
and I would say it succeeded here too
 
8:14 PM
upgoat or downgoat was pretty funny
especially since mathematica has inbuilt functions for computer-visioning goats.
 
@jaggedSpire Misery is the feeling that lets you know you can still be happy in the end.
 
@nwp that actually summarises my feelings about it pretty well
 
8:38 PM
@jaggedSpire I feel it's important to note Happiness is not a Catface.
 
I was more implying that that is a Catface way to think
 
Woop
I didn't die
Plane didn't crash
So nice to have mobile Internet again
 
8:55 PM
@jaggedSpire I would imagine Catface as more an end to a means, not necessarily the means to reach an end?
 
9:33 PM
@ThePhD Catface is all
 
Is partial specialization actually just overloading?
 
partial specialization of functions doesn't exist
So whatever you thought as "partial specialization" was, indeed, overloading
 
just like scott said
 
Ell
9:52 PM
I think partial specialisation of functions should exist
 
Wait... Isn't this partial specialization?

http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/48822e8ec1b1c43d

Andrei Alexendrescu named this partial specialization in his book about generic programming ( can't remember the exact name of the book ).
 
@milleniumbug Yeah that doesn't really explain it. I know how overload resolution resolving works.
 
@EnnMichael Oh, that was the wrong one. I actually wanted to post gotw.ca/publications/mill17.htm
 
10:00 PM
On the low key... nobody cares about MSVC++. We all hate Microsoft anyways amr guys?
 
@EnnMichael I use it.
 
They're cunts. Honestly. Like... I mean, Stephan Lavavej is cool as fuck, but Micosoft in general stinks.
Well power to you then.
 
I don't deny that Microsoft sucks. But Visual Studio is still the best IDE/compiler for Windows.
 
@Mysticial For windows maybe, but only sad people have to write C++ under Windows. :P
 
@Griwes :)
As far an IDE goes, I have yet to find anything in Linux that can compare with the whole Visual Studio thing.
 
Ell
10:03 PM
QtCreator is the closest thing
But generally it is not the done way I guess
 
Even though MSVC itself is somewhat of a shit compiler in a bunch of things, the integration with VS and everything almost makes up for it.
 
Ell
People tend to prefer emacs/vim + plugins
and by plugins I mean ctags or ycmd
@Mysticial I've never actually used MSVC. What integration does it offer you find most essential?
 
user406009
@Ell I think it also sorta depends on what sort of tools are also set up at your work.
 
@Ell One button compile. No need to bother with makefile. Just drag and drop and it takes care of everything for you. Auto-complete. Quick jump to definition/declaration. Full GUI debugger.
 
user406009
If you work already has some sort of reference finder, then the need is less.
 
10:07 PM
And if you include the ICC addons, fully integrated VTune and such.
 
@Ell Mainly with the debugger
 
user406009
By "reference finder" I mean some sort of tool to track down all uses of this class, the implementation, etc, etc.
 
@Mysticial my vim config :P maybe except the debugger, but debugger... meh
 
All of these are things that I don't get when I'm in Linux using gedit on a large project.
 
If you want to say gdb is close, then don't :P (it's not)
 
10:09 PM
The MSVC compiler itself is shit in most aspects except for being fast to compile.
 
No look. Their IDE rocks, but their compiler sucks! They go out of their way to add features and extend the standard for really no reason. The only reason why they do it is because they are Microsoft and they are the saints of programming. Well, shit, if we can't get it right, may as well add a bunch of shit on top and pretend like all is good right?
 
user406009
@Mysticial Faster than Clang nowadays?
 
@Lalaland I have not tried Clang. But faster than GCC and miles ahead of ICC.
 
Ell
@Mysticial well, gedit is equivalent to notepad++
 
@Mysticial Well don't use gedit! Use Brackets or Emacs or something...
 
10:10 PM
sol2's tests compile wicked fast in VC++.
A biiit slower for g++.
 
Ell
You can get auto complete and the definition stuff with linux
 
clang++, no clue, I haven't been able to compile with it because clang's been erroring pretty hard lately.
 
Ell
The GUI thing, I'm not a fan of
 
@EnnMichael I haven't heard of Brackets. But fuck emacs, fuck vim, and fuck every single command line editor.
 
Ell
So I uavemt tried searching it
@Mysticial emacs & vim aren't command line editors :3
They both have GUIs if its what you're inton
They both have GUIs if its what you're into
 
user406009
10:12 PM
gvim solves a lot of the issues with vim.
 
They aren't IDEs either
 
user406009
For instance, copy and paste works correctly.
 
Ell
Hmm also there's CLion, I've never tried it
 
user406009
(Whereas it is just broken in vim)
 
Ell
@milleniumbug they can be if you want them to be
 
10:12 PM
i.e. if you integrate them with the rest of the tools
 
@Mysticial if you have that opinion, then you're not for Linux in the first place.
 
@EnnMichael Which is why I do my personal programming in Windows.
 
Ell
@EnnMichael I disagree
There isn't anything wrong with liking GUIs
 
@Eli Yeah but disliking the console is a whole other level.
@Eli Don't get me wrong man.
 
I dislike the console. I love the mouse and I hate the keyboard.
 
10:14 PM
Mouse best friend.
 
Ell
Do you type with an on screen keyboard? :P
 
Wtf.
 
@EnnMichael it's not "eli" btw
 
@Ell I've done that before. Often through remote desktop or teamviewer when keyboard shortcuts bug out.
 
@Ell @milleniumbug sorry
 
Ell
10:15 PM
@Mysticial wow :P
You're beyond help ;)
 
:)
 
Terminals are shit and if you like them you're out of your mind
 
Terminals are GODLY
 
fuck terminals and command line windows
 
Terminals are a technology that has been outdated for 30 years
 
10:16 PM
Everybody can have an opinion.
Now with that out of the way
Lets argue who is right
 
@EnnMichael As it stands, this is overloading. Partial specialization (if it were allowed) would look something like this: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/ed3eb5c0e0cfc3a5 (at least this is roughly the syntax you'd use for partial specialization of a class). For better or worse, however, partial specialization of functions isn't allowed, so it's impossible to say what it would look like if it existed.
 
Well not really.
 
user406009
Terminals do support automation really easily though.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus keyboards are quicker than mice
 
user406009
Like it's relatively easily to run the same operation over every file in a folder.
 
10:18 PM
@JerryCoffin Oh I get it. Thanks.
@Lalaland WHAT
 
Depends and that's also a different issue
 
DO YOU EVEN BASH
 
fuck bash
 
Doesn't change the fact that TTY is garbage
 
Ell
What's garbage about TTY?
 
user406009
10:19 PM
@Ell It would be nice if everything returned structured data instead of just text.
 
lol are you seriously asking this question
 
Ell
@Lalaland that's nought to do with TTY
Powershell can run in a TTY
 
It's partially TTY, because you don't have a protocol for communicating structured data
And TTY protocol is shit at handling input
 
multiple incompatible implementations, which makes you unable to do anything without terminfo/that other thing
Also the fact there are two of them
 
user406009
@Ell If we are talking about command line applications vs GUI applications, the GUI apps can have better discoverability.
 
10:21 PM
So many key combos map to the same byte sequences because the protocol was made in 70s
 
user406009
Like compare using gdb vs a visual debugger GUI like through VS.
 
Also things like flow control or baud rate still existing
 
I kinda felt that GDB was unusable
it shouldn't be possible for it to ship without being able to print STL containers out of the box, and having to run a command to list every variable/etc is just really painful compared to VS
 
visit PuTTY configuration settings and if you don't come to the conclusion something's terminally wrong with terminals, there's something wrong with you :P
 
I mean VS's debugger can still be a worthless pile of crap, especially when it comes to expression evaluation, but you can at least view the call stack and local variables
 
Ell
10:25 PM
@Puppy tbf not shipping with the printers is a distro issue
 
That's neither here nor there, it's purely a distribution issue
 
no.
it's a fundamental fuck-up that a distro could possibly get this wrong.
 
Of the distro
 
@Ell The YMMV thing is yet another reason to prefer VS
 
unless the distro went and forked the source to remove them, it's GDB's fuck-up.
 
10:26 PM
There's nothing to remove, the debug printers are part of libstdc++ not GDB
 
see, that's what I'm saying
it's a GDB fuck-up.
 
Yes, it's GDB's job to provide printers for every possible C++ library implementation
 
no
but it sure as fuck is for the standard library implementation that ships with the damn compiler that you're supporting.
 
GDB has little to do with GCC
They're only related insofar they're both GNU projects
 
guess I must have missed those legions of alternative C++ compilers, debuggers, and standard library implementations
 
10:28 PM
@milleniumbug Help. gotw.ca/publications/mill17.htm I don't understand this. I tried it here: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/19fea72e6da0d9a7 what the fuck?
 
the only serious alternative is Clang and they're much newer
 
@milleniumbug In the site, they saay it should call overload 2, but thats not what happens.
 
GDB has never been a C++ tool
 
@Puppy This is the basic problem with a lot of Linux--things are broken up along lines that make relatively little sense, so there's an awful lot of "not my fault, his fault" stuff, that on one hand means a lot of things work poorly (if at all), but at the same time, give everybody involved in the development excuses to believe they've still done everything perfectly.
 
@EnnMichael they don't
 
Ell
10:30 PM
@milleniumbug I agree, but its not the problem with GDB itsself
 
The printers require knowledge of the library internals
It's not debugger's team responsibility to know that
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm sure that it can do things like demangle C++ symbols, evaluate C++ expressions, and stuff like that with code that targets C.
 
@milleniumbug They have an int* specialization and a T* overload. And they say it calls the T* overload, but it doesn't.
 
Sure, and also some other languages
 
It calls the specialization.
 
10:30 PM
int *p;
f( p );           // calls (c)
 
Why do you want them to treat C++ in a special way
 
because otherwise it doesn't fucking work.
 
Besides this is such a minor non-issue
 
as evidenced by the fact that some distros can ship without this essential feature.
 
@EnnMichael there are two examples there
 
10:31 PM
whining about who is responsible is ultimately irrelevant.
 
Read carefully
 
@milleniumbug Wait.
 
the simple fact is that VS does not make this kind of mistake.
 
There's a lot you can find wrong about GDB but insisting that they take responsibility for something entirely outside of their domain is stupid
 
No, so it works differently because the functions are declared in different order right?
In the two examples.
 
10:32 PM
VS is an integrated environment, that's the difference
 
that's... not really meaningful.
 
WinDbg doesn't know about VS C++ implementation either
 
you've simply gone from "GDB is shit" to "GDB is shit because it's not an integrated environment".
 
@milleniumbug Did I get it? :D
 
jfc no I went from "GDB is a standalone product" to "GDB is a standalone product"
But I can see how that notion is hard to understand
 
10:33 PM
uh huh
it's such a standalone product that it's shipped with basically the only compiler around, basically the only stdlib around, and has a bunch of special features specifically to support them and their languages.
 
really feeling the independent nature.
or more generally, I don't give a fuck about the independent nature, the only thing that matters is that it didn't work.
the developers can whine all they want about why that is
but it's their problem and they should fix it.
 
@Ell "I'm using Fedora 24 (one of the 2537 distributions) and one of the 10 IDEs I could've installed doesn't work correctly with one of the 464 versions of GDB that debugs an executable produced by one of the 4642 versions of my compiler"
 
@milleniumbug Stop ignoring me im crying for your attention
 
Compare it to "I'm using MSVS 2015 Update 3"
@EnnMichael You can say "They're declared in a different order", but that's a cause
The effect is "the specialization specializes a different template"
 
10:40 PM
@milleniumbug Okay. I understand. Thanks friend.
@milleniumbug By the way can I ask how long have you been into C++ for?
 
Way too long
 
@milleniumbug Do you work in C++? You do it professionally right?
 
I'm currently writing Java and C# in my job
 
I'll take unintegrated tools I have to manually translate from ancient Sumerian to PDP-10 machine code on a piece of papyrus while dancing naked under a full moon over garbage studio any day
 
@milleniumbug Are you a freelancer? And, this is interesting - would you say C# and Java are easier( less expert friendly ) languages than C++?
 
10:42 PM
Never had any professional experience with C++
 
@milleniumbug That's surprising. :-)
 
It's akin to alien encounters and also results in you being locked away in a mental hospital
 
Ell
@milleniumbug did you read what I said? :P
@Puppy its your problem actually
 
Actually, it could've been a problem with GDB itself
GDB frontends are a bitch to write
Excercise 1: go to the GDB/MI docs and see how often they update the docs of it. Excercise 2: go to the mailing lists and see how often you see "MI output generation bug"
 
Ell
@Puppy I thing that is illogical
 
10:47 PM
Excercise 3: check how many GDB functions aren't exposed in GDB/MI API
 
Ell
You first need to know who is responsible before you enquire/complain
You don't let people post SO questions in here. Why not? We are part of SO are we not? Isn't it therefore "our problem"?
@milleniumbug yeah, I believe you that the interface is shit
I bet its barely been updated since the 80s
 
@EnnMichael Of course they're easier, if only because they don't have so much historical baggage.
 
nwp
@Ell his point is that he wants a usable tool and he is not getting it. And it doesn't matter why it doesn't work, the fact remains that it is so.
 
Ell
Yeah. The SO users just want answers and they don't care why they're asking in the wrong place.
 
I'm not familiar with any "here's a feature, but don't use it, ever, it's broken" in C#
But there's a lot of it in C++
 
nwp
10:53 PM
@Ell which is totally fair. No usable tool for him, no answers for them. Both have to look elsewhere.
 
@milleniumbug TFW no std::longjmp that keeps the callstack alive.
 
I thought I actually told you longjmp is useless
 
You did.
I'd have to basically roll a coroutine-alike thing.
 
Boost.Coroutine and Boost.Context exist for a reason
 
I can't take a dependency on boost in my library though.
 
10:55 PM
Preacher TV series. Good or bad?
 
So already that sounds like overkill.
 
Ell
@ThePhD that's okay, copy and paste it and rename the namespace
@nwp let's agree to disagree
 
nwp
@wilx supposedly good
 
Ell
@ThePhD I don't get it :(
 
nwp
I watched some legends of tomorrow, didn't like it
supergirl on the other hand is not bad
 
Ell
10:58 PM
What's the difference between using somebody else's code versus rewriting the same code?
 
Ideological reasons, license reasons, cargo cult reasons, integration difficulty reasons
 
Integration reasons for me.
sol2 gets distributed as a single header.
Can't be dragging in all of Boost.context and Boost.coroutine
 
tbh you're screwed because you need inline assembly
 
Ell
@ThePhD you can but boost inside that header though
But yeah was going to say
You could declare an inline or template containing the assembly i guess
 
fairly sure these (Coroutine/Context) aren't header-only
 
Ell
11:01 PM
Does that work?
@milleniumbug oh ofc
 
Yeah, that's also a dealbreaker.
 
Ell
I guess I meant copy source in general
 
sol2 is header only
 
Ell
What are the coroutines for in Sol again?
 
Lua has coroutines. I wanted to basically implement my own sol::yield that would take a return value and suspend execution using lua_yield.
Then return back to the place that called sol::yield.
 
Ell
11:04 PM
@ThePhD oh, TIL
 
I did this successfully with longjmp
Until I realized the callstack wasn't saved when you longjmp'd and came back
 
Ell
You'll need to write assembly for each platform
 
11:15 PM
@milleniumbug Hmm..."Finalize" certainly comes close. I'm not sure the official docs every (quite) go so far as to say: "never use", but there's still pretty close to universal agreement that if you're trying to use it (or think you should) chances that you've made a fairly fundamental mistake somewhere are probably at least 99%.
 
user406009
@Ell It would be simpler to just use the existing boost::coroutine library.
 
user406009
@ThePhD You could use actual threads as well.
 
user406009
That would be the most "cross platform" solution.
 
@Lalaland The overhead on that sounds.... rough, to say the least.
Though.
Maybe I could use lua_yield in conjunction with a wait of sorts.
Mmmn... no, that wouldn't work.
 
1:21 am, morning is going to suck.
 
11:42 PM
TIL: in 2005, there were 12 vegetarian restaurants in Montreal. Now there's at least 66.
 
@Shoe Without reading, probably not. There is bound to be some other animal which needs them to survive.
 
The article covers that
tl;dr: there are something like 3000 different species, of those only 200 bite humans and of those only 1-2 are actually dangerous.
Also some important guy who wrote a book about maintaining biodiversity wrote something along the lines "well, except mosquitos; keep their DNA and let them go".
 
lol, "open your heart" :D
I think Preacher might entertain me a bit.
 

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