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00:05
Blerghablergh.
My legs are killing me.
@ThePhD Too much Pokemon Go?
@Mysticial oh nooooooo
@Mysticial .. Dear... sweet... goodness...
That's triggering on so many levels.
RIP, poor chip...
@Borgleader Nah, just regular walking.
00:12
@Mysticial I read about this thermal conductor thing that youre supposed to setup by putting the water pump heatsink on the thing, but you dont start the pump and let the CPU run for like 5 min so it makes the thing melt.
maybe that’s harmless mayonnaise
Oh, man.
python, herpin' that derp.
bisect doesn't take a key argument like sort.
So none of the algos allow me to change the behavior of how this tuple is searched through
People have been asking for this since 2008
And apparently it only just barely got patched in as of 2016
I don't even think I have it.
Hello Everyone

I have a pointer data member, when I create object of the class using either unique_ptr or shared_ptr, I still see that destructor was called.

http://pastebin.com/hiFyZK1v
bisect also can't handle iterables
This library is piss.
Is val2 actually deleted?
00:21
@hello No.
It's a raw pointer, so like @Nican said, No.
There's your code, fixed.
Now things are deleted properly and there's no moemory leaks.
@ThePhD , So I need to use unique_ptr<string> val2; if I need val2 to be a pointer
@LucDanton maybe it's maybelline
00:44
@hello If you need it to be for some strange reason.
Alternatively, you could just keep it not-a-pointer and just do &my_string to get the address of the object.
Unless you're making it a point to wonkily get around some lifetime issues.
01:06
@Mysticial O.o did they put thermal paste on the pins?
That's just wrong on so many levels...
Graphs like Bam:
/cc @Morwenn @Borgleader @R.MartinhoFernandes
I think that's just about as good as I can get them.
@ThePhD Awesome! :)
Not as sexy as you, but awesome <3
D'aaawwww, shucks.
Aight time for bed
Got home early, would be a shame if i ruined it by going to bed late
01:15
Nice! I wonder why luwra is you only other real competitor. Maybe they cheat and skip a few features
I cleaned up your code a little, while maintaining the same invariants
@Borgleader Stay uuuuuup.
But those are some sexy benchmarks
@Aaron3468 They do cheat.
Functions are registered with Macros.
Which means both they and OOLua -- macro based frameworks -- cannot do Stateful Functions.
It is impossible for them to comprehend in their frameworks.
This basically means you can't have lambas and use their libraries at the same time, which is a huge problem.
Also, I think I'm going to get rid of slb3 in the benchmarks. It's kind of just a waste of a slot and it skews the graph scales a lot with its shitty performance.
Yep, lambdas are very useful once you start moving to higher level APIs. At that scale of speed, I think you made the better choice; you have an extra feature at barely any expense of time
Python, on the other hand, I hate to love because it simply can't compete with C++/Java/Rust. The tradeoff of features/speed only works when we're talking <1 second
01:21
Why are you putting Java, C++ and Rust in the same slash?
Because their performance is extremely similar nowadays with few exceptions. Java's like a 1-3% difference of speed from C++, but about 10x more annoying to develop in.
Back in my days C++ and Java couldn't be further apart
So either Java got really good (unlikely) or C++ got really bad (more likely)
That is true. The JVM got much better in the last few releases, but I think perhaps C++ lagged a little behind. Java still has a bit of performance overhead, but many benchmarks I run hit within that 1-25% slower range that I can deal with
The JVM is neckbreakingly optimized.
Interpreted python on the other hand has been up to 1000x slower than C++ code, and I'm not touching compiled python because of how hacky it is.
01:27
Most Java programs actually suffer from the way programmer's program it rather than because the JVM sucks.
Sie
Sie
I'm having an issue with VS. I mainly work in C# but it's with VS so maybe someone will know. When I try to go to my project properties it just blinks white but doesn't bring up the property window.
Python is dynamically typed, no shit it's slow
Type systems were invented exactly to speed up the program
And because Java had a soul-crushing amount of inability to expression what a person wants (only slowly being alleviated these days), so convoluted solutions beget unwieldy programs where programmers did strange things and created crap programs.
5
01:30
@ThePhD ^ You hit it on the head; I don't want to be making factories to get DataObjects so I can getResource().toString()
@ThePhD I think it's more the fault of the OOP programming cult that Java generated
@Shoe I like python syntax and standard containers, but I'd prefer a good typing system tbh
Is it called Enterprise OOP?
Sie
Sie
Sometimes I hate VS.
3
The kind of OOP where you stop thinking and just go with getters and setters everywhere, and then fit as many design patterns as possible creating bloated programs.
01:31
@Sie Check your antivirus. Looks like the window is crashing/being blocked
@Sie that's okay I have a feud with it too
I've seen some really nasty shit
Sie
Sie
When did they change the ping noise? Or is that site specific. It just to sound like a rubber band hitting something now it's this light ting.
Like, there's that guy that wrote enterprise... fibonacci? Or maybe it was foo bar.
Sure it's a joke
But a Java programmer would definitely pick one of the designs in the middle for anything as trivial
@Sie it's always been a ping for me.
Sie
Sie
01:33
@Aaron3468 Doubt it. I don't have any AV other than Windows native av on W10.
@Sie That's on meta IIRC
Here it has always been a ping
Sie
Sie
I mostly go on gamedev chat.
Yeah, or that
SO proper is different apparently
I've seen C++ developers do a lot of hacky things when they hit the boundaries of the limited templating system. It's gotten better with recent versions of the compiler
@Shoe ???
01:34
What confuses you?
Sie
Sie
I could use MonoDevelop. It grosses me out but...
@Shoe EE is a thump instead of ping
I know noah ark is fictional, but I could not but thinking: which is bigger, noah ark or titanic?
My dick
but it wouldn't float on water :'(
01:42
Technically it would on salty water
I think the Titanic wins. Except that it didn't last 40 days...
How the fuck do you calculate the dimension of a fictional boat
Especially with a precision of 0.5f?
Sie
Sie
magic
@Shoe Is val2 deleted
@Shoe LMAO
By asking historians to dig it up
01:43
@hello Yes of course
It's called automatic memory management
Forget about new and delete entirely
Also std::unique_ptr and std::shared_ptr solve specific problems
If you can avoid to use them, do so
What @shoe is trying to say is, just use void wherever you can.
not really
But mostly because God tells Noah the exact specifications; God is a better manager than mine ^^;
@Shoe That is new to me
That's a Nice pun
01:46
god damn it markdown
Anyway, std::unique_ptr and alike are great and all, buy nothing can rival the raw power that is T*.
Shut the fuck up nooble, he is gonna take you seriously
Okay :(
@Borgleader This should be bold :/
I think my joke was great.
@Nooble Dude???
01:51
@Nooble just as with lemons!
@hello Hm?
@hello long story short, don't use new, delete, or pointers unless absolutely necessary. That way C++ will automatically release objects when you leave a scope.
Yeah, it's called RAII (Rowboats Are Interestingly Innovative).
5
@Nooble Just shut up.
Ok I'll leave.
01:55
lol
@Nooble Go watch RNC
btw, I got a programmer so now I can free up my arduino for the interesting projects and save my microcontrollers for the frustrating projects that take hours of planning. I just need to set it up with my IDE, rather than the bastardized arduino IDE
And I soldered, which was a remarkably simple process :D
@Aaron3468 that surprises me, over here it’s not uncommon to do a bit of soldering in the school years
Whereabouts are you? I'm in Canada
France
02:05
I wouldn't have thought it was common there! In my school years, the practical skills I learned were cooking, woodwork, some music, and sports
And I use mathematics more often than I'd like to admit, even derivatives and integrals on the odd occasion
@Aaron3468 Makes me wonder if you can make a programmer with an arduino.
This response from this library developer worries me.
@Aaron3468 I think the classes would be more or less the equivalent of shop class in NA, which I gather is more of an elective?
with a bit of a focus on industry stuff, too e.g. technical drawing, drafting, etc.
@Nooble That's exactly what I was doing. All it uses is serial output and a simple software bypass so the arduino pushes code from USB to the output instead of reprogramming itself
> Dans les collèges français, l’enseignement de la technologie est présent dans toutes les classes du collège […]
that means it’s mandatory for all pupils
well the classes are, not the soldering per se
as I recall some of us assembled a LED-lit keyfob, starting from a PCB + the components
in retrospect I find it surprising and almost suspect that we were taught something practical and nearly useful
02:10
@LucDanton Yeah, mandatory 'electives' as in you had a choice in what you'd do, but couldn't say 'none'. So woodworking, simple mechanics, cooking, and music. A few schools in the area had programming (I skipped two years of it due to experience and was a TA) and most schools had second languages. No electronics though.
so you can’t learn to cook and carry a tune?
You can choose multiple ones, but only if you have spare space after scheduling the 'core' courses (math, english, 1 or more sciences, and physical education)
Oh! Drama/theatre was the other big elective people chose
we had the option to schedule extras even when you were out of space. Which we did. A lot.
Just meant you had to copy notes from classmates who attended
Haha, well, if it works, it's fine
@ThePhD Which response? .-.
@Aaron3468 "I put a derived class into Lua. I need to get a base class out on the other side. How to do?" "Just put the thing on the stack and pull it out." "... But... multiple base classes, can't just static_cast the void pointer...?"
vOv
02:19
I'd be inclined to think the solution is either generating a list of all base classes, or knowing which base class you expect to get back...
He's the one asking?
I'm asking!
I don't think he understands the problem all that well...
You could check if the derived class is castable to the base class you need, but I don't think there's enough metadata to retrieve the base classes without knowing what they are beforehand
03:14
@Mysticial That does look like a bad idea. An overheated socket leads to CRC errors in TCP packets.
It also causes Visual Studio to crash unexpectedly and voids the EULA
@Aaron3468 Impossible. VS crashing is always expected.
That is true. Speaking of which, thermal paste might actually be a good place to start figuring out why the keyboard on my laptop stopped typing anything, but the trackpad and function keys still work.
I've tried every other type of device manager voodoo to fix it
03:29
@JerryCoffin VS doesn't crash. It just freezes. Figuring out if it'll eventually stop freezing or just crash is tantamount to solving the halting problem.
04:11
Hey C++ Group :)
Hello! Don't be afraid to ask questions, but do read the rules that should be linked in the far right first :)
yes sir
just a os-dev lover :)
04:56
Is there an easier way to install/compile tar.gz binaries on windows than using cygwin?
installing cygwin for the 3rd time =.=
05:46
@Aaron3468 Have you tried MSYS2?
No, but I'm trying it now and it seems it requires a different version of cygwin1.dll installed other than the most recent
Maybe that's cygwin's remains after uninstall interfering
MSYS2 consists of a very small Cygwin ecosystem (bash and stuff), and native applications compiled with MinGW, i.e. if it can be natively compiled, it is.
06:04
Ah, I see. At the moment I need to compile the latest version of a tarball'd app because nobody's compiled it and it's the version adding support for a device I'm programming. I'm having trouble getting configure to work
It's pretty close to the last step in building, if the guide I found is correct
morning
06:48
facepalm cygwin is interfering with file permissions so I can't update config.guess and config.sub, but once I modify permissions to do so, it can't run config.sub. This is a horrifying mess and I have no idea how linux users get anything done >.<
It's simple - you're dealing with added complexity of running linux on windows
pretty much
Things are simpler natively
sigh maybe I should boot up my linux VM for this and then upload the compiled exe to dropbox or something
@milleniumbug i assume you are a linux user?
06:58
I'll need to figure out how to set up cross compilation for windows then
@Aaron3468 not that big of a deal, i did it once, took me 30 mins max
@Khaled.K you actually hung around?
thats nice!
or maybe... the program wasn't designed to run on Windows after all
@milleniumbug maybe he wants to compile his stuff to windows for some reason
An older version of it works fine on windows
I get that it may not have been originally targetted to windows, but I don't have much free space at the moment to put all my development toolchains into a linux VM and the time spent reconfiguring them would be many orders of magnitude larger than configuring this one
Just FTR, what program are you building?
07:07
avrdude. I don't have an Atmel supported programmer, but avrdude works with the one I have. One of the microcontrollers I have isn't supported by the version of avrdude I have installed.
if i understood correctly you are trying to get avrdude on windows, right?
oh ok, it's version dependent
sorry for the hype then
@ChemiCalChems I do hung in the lung
@Khaled.K congrats
@ChemiCalChems on what exactly?
@Khaled.K congratz on joining this awesome community of mental illness and passive aggressiveness!
07:19
but I've been part of this lounge about few years now
@Khaled.K i must have been confused with someone else
sorry
yeah, the other was also called khaled
KhaledHamed
thats the guy
@ChemiCalChems I know someone called khalid hamed, the younger bro of abdulla hamed a dear friend, a man who started the first indie game developers community known as GameOtaku, now is a non-proft organization, in Saudi Arabia years ago..
@Khaled.K can't be the same guy, the guy i'm talking about didn't have that much experience
@EtiennedeMartel I count any freeze of more than about 10 or maybe 15 seconds as a crash.
@ChemiCalChems I was talking about his older bro, khalid is currently a student in the US
07:25
@Khaled.K you think that might be him?
maybe
nope, not him
07:49
@LucDanton On me susurre à l'oreillette que votre pseudonyme fait gausser les rares francophones parcourant les entêtes de Boost
@Ven 10/10
Ven
Ven
@KretabChabawenizc merci l'ami
21 hours ago, by Ven
Tant va la cruche à l'.au
(context relevant)
> These clowns make Sarah Palin seem capable! It's exactly as if Lockheed Martin rolled out a hot air balloon with an American flag and Jesus painted on it and proclaimed it the new Air Force Stealth Bomber.
heh
@Bassie First meal as a future diabetic
good morning lounge
07:56
mornin
wait what?
bartek and kretab?
I'm the real one
user1804599
good mourning barket
@BartekBanachewicz i know
user1804599
holy shit bartek makes $60 per hour
do I
I need to contact my bank then and ask them about all the missing money
user1804599
07:58
> $15.00
for every 15 minutes
Looks like there was one very well-hidden blog post where somebody compiled avrdude 6.3 and a few other programs for windows. Problem solved.
@BartekBanachewicz Haha, it's not too late to vote Bernie by write-in
@Bassie it's not a 9-5 job you know
user1804599
ynot
@Aaron3468 I'm p sure he meant the Trump side
@Bassie not enough clients
user1804599
RIP
08:00
pff
it got me a new phone
@Aaron3468 split the vote, yay!
also yeah the caucuses and shit are pretty much meant to focus votes
if your party had 60% majority, but two candidates, you'd still lose
user1804599
{-# LANGUAGE MultiWayIf #-}
fn x y = if | x == 1    -> "a"
            | y <  2    -> "b"
            | otherwise -> "c"
user1804599
rad
you don't need if for that
08:05
Is that just a case True?
user1804599
No
fn x y
 | x == 1 -> "a"
 | y <  2 -> "b"
 | otherwise -> "c"
user1804599
It's guards, not patterns.
user1804599
It's case () of () | ... -> ... | ... -> ...
is it true that functions decay to pointers?
i heard something similar to that
08:07
even if they did you're not supposed to touch that
pretend C subset in C++ doesn't exist
@BartekBanachewicz i was just asking
user1804599
What's the half-life of functions?
> Otherwise, if T is a function type F or a reference thereto, the member typedef type is std::add_pointer<F>::type.
why would somebody want that? oh well, my brain is too stupid to understand for now
the idea was that everything is bytes
and assembly is hard to write
so C did some helpful abstractions over assembly, but did them relatively poorly
and as a result a lot of escape hatches were needed
08:11
i see
How is word size usually defined? As sizeof(void*), sizeof(long), ..?
I'd go with int
Ven
Ven
@StackedCrooked what's a word?
but really ^
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz arguably on 64 bits, int is quad
far from word
08:15
@StackedCrooked C++ doesn't care
@Ven it's a 64-bit word
RAX has 64 bits
Ven
Ven
C++ rarely cares.
@BartekBanachewicz RAX is a quadword
ok nevermind it's all silly
If you mean "the size of the general-purpose registers", then sizeof(void*) is probably the closest one
sizeof(void*) is 1 innit?
or not
Ven
Ven
08:16
@ChemiCalChems it's unspecified
*unspecified
Ven
Ven
yeah, thanks
@milleniumbug I see.
@Ven yeah, makes sense, was thinking about something else
Ven
Ven
the only thing defined by the C standard is that sizeof(char) is 1, and a char is a byte.
also huehuehue someone tried to start a legalese fight with me. it's like they think i have some social life or so
nwp
nwp
08:17
today I learned that template template arguments are a thing. Apparently I'm still a nub :(
@Ven pretty sure it defines a few more things :P
@Ven C has fixed size integers
Ven
Ven
@nwp you are! you'll learn how template<template<typename>> wasn't valid when template<template<class>> was for some reason!
@nwp Did you know you can use the address of a function as a template parameter?
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz fixed size integers? you mean like int64_t?
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz that's an optional feature, though.
nwp
nwp
@StackedCrooked no, but I would expect that
don't worry people still discourage using them
@Ven yeah
it's beyond retarded
Ven
Ven
@nwp did you know that implicit conversions are disabled inside of template value default arguments template<class T = ...>, but GCC has a bug where it still does them.
@StackedCrooked Hell++ could probably have sizeof(void*) == 42, but I wouldn't care about that
Ven
Ven
08:19
@BartekBanachewicz #blamethestandard
no, blame the idiots who perpetuate this idiocy
C could be a way better language if not for its users
@nwp I think it's strange. It's value is not even known at compile-time, but it is at link-time.
Ven
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz if you make a feature optional ofc people are gonna think it's half a bad idea
@Ven and you don't make an essential feature optional either
but seriously noone gives a flying f about it
C users won't use C11 for the next decade or so
08:25
@BartekBanachewicz i see what you did there
they are barely discovering C99
and then they go on usenet or irc or whenever those people go and shout NONPORTABLE
@fredoverflow The Law of Demeter is not an exercise in dot-counting.
nwp
nwp
@Ven no
Jul 14 at 13:00, by nwp
why can we not have switch on pointers again? I don't buy that there is only 1 pointer constant, because the addresses of functions or other global data are totally compile time constants.
is there any simple way to get non repeating random output from an engine?
nwp
nwp
would expect that to just work as well
08:28
i was thinking i could save the results in a vector and test against them, or generate another one, but i thought there could be a better way
@nwp Because of the build infrastructure.
Those addresses are only actually known at link-time.
@ChemiCalChems generators aren't random
nwp
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes doesn't sound like a compelling reason, should be made to work despite that
they are pseudorandom
@ThePhD Much better. I'd drop the "library" label, but it's not a biggie.
08:31
for true randomness you need true entropy
ok, granted
nwp
nwp
@ChemiCalChems if they don't repeat they are not random. Pick one.
if you're ok with pseudorandomness just seed from random device and call it a day
@nwp That puts an extra burden on compiler writers, and I hazard most people would agree the effort isn't worth the benefit.
@nwp not getting non repeating output straight from the generator, but some simple way (maybe in O(1) if possible) to make sure it's non repeating
08:33
@ChemiCalChems From a pool of values?
nwp
nwp
by non-repeating do you mean the individual numbers or that there is no period in the sequence?
@nwp individual
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, from 1-49 to be accurate
i'd be getting at most 24 values
nwp
nwp
you want to look for permutation, not random number generation
Just shuffle an array.
08:34
@R.MartinhoFernandes and grab the first x values i need... thanks for the idea
serious wardrobe unclogging effort
bought more clothes, wardrobe near the verge of collapsing after 3 years taking more in & getting nothing out
3 bags moved from wardrobe to garage
I should do round 2 in a couple of months
ideally I should take at least 8 medium sized bags of old & torn clothes from wardrobe to outside the house
user1804599
Woot
user1804599
Disabling the SQLite durability guarantee makes commits so much faster.
user1804599
Like two orders of magnitude faster.
08:47
@Bassie "SQLite durability guarantee"?
user1804599
In database systems, durability is the ACID property which guarantees that transactions that have committed will survive permanently. For example, if a flight booking reports that a seat has successfully been booked, then the seat will remain booked even if the system crashes. Durability can be achieved by flushing the transaction's log records to non-volatile storage before acknowledging commitment. In distributed transactions, all participating servers must coordinate before commit can be acknowledged. This is usually done by a two-phase commit protocol. Many DBMSs implement durability by writing...
OMG
Lockheed Martin has an office in Poland
> Bachelors degree from an accredited college in a related discipline, or equivalent experience/combined education, with professional experience; or professional experience with a related Masters degree; or no experience required with a related PhD or JD. Considered career, or journey, level.
wow that sounds super reasonable
nwp
nwp
I would expect people to not want to work at weapons manufacturing, but that may just be my paranoia talking.
user1804599
Lockheed Martin doesn't only do weapons.
@nwp I'm totally eyeing that because I could work at weapons manufacturing
08:54
True, but it's assumed that some of any income they make is redistributed to their weapon development/production, so I can see why some would not want to work
Don't you think that working on a fighter jet would be amazing
nwp
nwp
hmm, no, not really
they are among humanity's greatest creations
nwp
nwp
killing people is a bit of a turn off for me
work on a race car instead
race cars are cool as well
nwp
nwp
08:56
or satellites for nasa or something
but defense has this nice flair of secrecy
besides modern fighter jets are kind of like nukes
they don't really kill too many people nowadays, they are mostly there to look scary
nwp
nwp
they do a pretty good job
I've had a productive day today; I migrated my microcontroller toolchain out of the arduino IDE (into a much better one), and added the Atmega168PA to the list I can program. It was much more of a headache than I expected, but I'm glad it works

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