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sbi
sbi
16:00
@jalf It worked for me in the end. I guess it failed because I hadn't rebooted in weeks.
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't know looking through someone elses facebook was legal
@Ell I suppose it is legal if that someone gives you permission.
Ell
Ell
yeah. That article/letter or whatever it is is quite powerful I think
it's a new requirement for many jobs
@KonradRudolph Unfortunately?
16:02
they Google you or Facebook you or something
and then you have to give them your login details or you can't be considered
Ell
Ell
I would just say I don't have a facebook
@StackedCrooked I rewrote your sample to cut out your dependencies (and added mine instead, so it's not significantly more self-contained). I'm able to reproduce the problem though
so that's nice at least :)
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes, I’d have liked that.
Ell
Ell
"The demo is the official installer and is unlocked to the level you purchase by installing a tiny 50kb FLRegkey.Reg file. It takes only seconds to download from your online account." -isn't this bait for pirates?
yeah
16:06
Can I run Skype on Linux?
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
Skype, an unbelievably irritating program, and Linux, the most annoying operating system
Does it work, i.e., am I better off with running it on a Windows VM?
match made in hell
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes skype is better on linux than on windows
sbi
sbi
16:08
@RMartinhoFernandes I suspect he thinks it's unfortunate that no such letter has ever really been written, and no potential employees have ever done what was described in the letter.
@DeadMG I totally agree with the first part.
Ell
Ell
I find ubuntu & linux mint better than windows. I don't think you can just say "linux", you need to specify a distro
@sbi It's a great idea to threaten to sue them like the proposed candidates
@RMartinhoFernandes It works, although the UI isn't as good.
Ell
Ell
@LucDanton really? I think skype on windows is annoying as hell
16:09
agreed
@Ell Creating a conference call isn't as convenient for instance.
Ell
Ell
Ahh well I only ever do 1 on 1 so I wouldn't know about that. You probably have a better idea
sbi
sbi
@Ell I would just say that my private life should be of no interest to them, and that I refuse to reveal it to them. Of course, that is likely to lead them to not to hire me — but I wouldn't have a snowball's in hell chance to excel at such a company anyway.
Remember: In a job interview, you're checking out them as much as they check out you.
Ell
Ell
@sbi what kind of things are you checking them out for?
The kind of things that will make you want to leave later?
Ell
Ell
16:12
makes sense :L
sbi
sbi
@Ell Does this company have a culture/climate I'd be comfortable with? Is the guy interviewing me likable or an asshole? Am I going to be a small cog in a big clockwork? Do they want to look at my private life or my programming skills?
Is the code they give me to check out horrible or do they know what good code looks like? (I have declined job offers because the code they gave me to assess my skills was horrible.)
"My skills are way beyond this crap."
6
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I didn't say it this way. There's no point in insulting people who haven't abused you. I politely said something like, given the code I have just seen, I don't feel like I would be a good fit for the company's culture, and it might be of mutual interest to stop wasting time on this interview. They asked what's wrong with the code, and I pointed it out, again trying to be polite. They didn't try to talk me into working for them after that, which was one more hint that I'd be a misfit.
the problem with having ridiculous internet where all entertainment is on-demand
all entertainment is on-demand so you never work
@StackedCrooked do you still have the version of my lib in which this test passed? I've tried reverting to several older versions, and they all trigger the same assertion failures
sbi
sbi
16:20
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: My skills are way beyond this crap. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
It was about time.
@sbi Oh, I wasn't implying you said that. Just imagining it.
Now I have a worthless starred message.
9
sbi
sbi
Dang!
ding dong dang dung
Woah, who pinned that?
Ell
Ell
Is using std::functions appropriated for callbacks? like OnMouseClick = std::function or whatever?
sbi
sbi
16:23
After having spent 5hrs on useless admin stuff (without result), and another two hours on trying to understand a bug (again without a result), I needed this short diversion here. Now, however, I need to understand that bug. Sigh.
good
question
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You had a worthless pinned message. Then the Great Unpinning Puppy came along...
@Ell Yes.
lol
@Ell Yeah, I can't think of a more appropriate solution
Ell
Ell
16:24
@DeadMG thank you, now I just have to find out how to use them XD
@sbi hehe, good luck then.
@Ell It's easy
@Ell sure. It allows one to pass a callback however he/she wants, be it a lambda, functor or function pointer.
other than perhaps using a signals/slots library
Step 1. Declare variable of appropriate function type as public member variable.std::function<void(Position)> OnMouseMove;
sbi
sbi
16:24
Damn, I can't type today.
Unless you need multicasting, std::function is perfect.
@sbi Without result? Still not reinstalled/upgraded?
Ell
Ell
@jalf I thought using a signal/slots library is the same thing
@Ell It might be
Step 2. When appropriate, call function. if (OnMouseMove) OnMouseMove(pos);
16:24
If you need multicasting you can build something simple around std::function .
sbi
sbi
25 mins ago, by sbi
@DeadMG If you think that was bad, you should know that, in the end, an admin and I spent 5 hours on this, and it didn't work. Fuck, they could have bought an Ultimate license easily for the money burned on this!
@Ell bool foo(const std::function<bool(int)>& function) { return function(42); } int main() { foo([](int a) -> bool { return a == 5; }); }, for as far as my lambda syntax is correct.
Step 3. You're done
Depends on the library
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG thank you :) so its like std::function<return type(parameter, list)> instance
16:25
@sbi They give you code? To assess your skills? How does that work. I mean, I like it, but it never happened to me that way
yes
I wonder if I can reproduce this problem on Windows. Debugging race conditions is bad enough, but doing it without a proper debugger would just be painful
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG thank you :)
@sbi woof
@sehe Most likely "here's some code, tell us what it does", or "here's some framework code, fill in the blanks"
or "find the bugs in this code", of course
16:27
@jalf my response so far is something along the lines of "this needs a total rewrite"
I was never shown code in an interview so far. I was never required to write code either.
@sbi it's always the same story. I spent a week manually updating error-prone code duplicated in all our components. Instead of that, they could have let me write that code-generator to generate C# wrappers for all Oracle stored procedures in about 20-30 databases schemas times 10-30 packages
@RMartinhoFernandes Never being shown code is one thing, but I'd probably ask a candidate to write code.
I've only been through two interviews so far though.
The updating involved removing duplicated code that I implemented in the framework (using some code generation for Oracle user defined types).
16:28
@Ell an example: ideone.com/43fHO
@RMartinhoFernandes well, that might be a thing to watch out for too. If they don't even care about seeing a candidate's programming skills, what does that say about them, or about the code and coworkers you'll likely be working with? ;)
@RMartinhoFernandes I've only had one, and I got the job. I got called in for an interview because he interviewed a moron, and it came out that I did all the work for said moron. So he hired me instead :D
@RMartinhoFernandes TBH I've been through interviews with clients mostly, I'm still with my first (serious) employer
@jalf They asked me lots of questions about my open-source contributions, so I guess they did care about that.
@RMartinhoFernandes I interviewed at Opera some years ago. The guy asked me to write some linked list code. My main problem was that I was unsure if he understood C++ references. That should have told me I did not fit in. As it turned out, HR wouldn't have me, so happily it did not get to the test.
16:31
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, that works too. When I interviewed for my current job, there was no actual code involved either. Some questions about my old code (like my STM lib), and I had to sketch out a bit of code on a whiteboard and such, but not really any actual code samples
Woah, green all over.
-7
Q: The "highest-level" programming language?

SergeI often hear that C is higher level language than assembly, C# is higher level than C++, Python is higher level than C#, etc. How does one assess "level" of a particular language? What languages are at the highest level right now and why?

Ell
Ell
woaah why did this get so much hate?
its not that bad I dont think?
Because it's a fuckingly useless question with no answer.
It's unanswerable.
@Ell "no research effort, unclear, and not useful." What more do you want?
Ell
Ell
16:37
But its interesting :L
Like Jerry said in comments, it would quickly devolve into a discussion about the meaning of "high level".
@Ell The topic is interesting. That doesn't mean the question is well written.
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck fair enough :L
Easy: it's the language I just invented, in which all programs are just written as foo, and the compiler (which I haven't yet written), correctly infers the programmer's intent
Ell
Ell
16:38
anyway. I'm off for a 2 hour walk to and fro KFC cus I just love that fried chicken
bye bye
Is it ok if I name my room Lounge 2?
@jalf foo? Really? Couldn't you pick someone less generic?
@Ell Do you get free fried chicken when ever you want?
@RMartinhoFernandes too late now. Would break backwards compatibility ;)
Why not allow any code then?
16:40
@jalf You're clearly not fit for godlike programming language design.
Write a program that fixes all the compatibility breaks in existing code.
It's not that hard if you have such a language at your disposal.
2
:)
Ell
Ell
im back. I have realised I have a piano lesson at half 6 so not enough time :L
@LearningC no unfortunately
@Ell that depends on which timezone you're in
Ell
Ell
@jalf in the one true timezone!
WEST?
That doesn't sound like the 1TTZ to me.
Ell
Ell
16:45
+0 hours
@LearningC we already have a lounge, but really you can do more or less whatever you want.
Ell
Ell
grenwhich meantime or however it is spelled :L
@Ell Don't you guys have summer time there?
Western European Summer Time (WEST) is a summer daylight saving time scheme, 1 hour ahead of Coordinated Universal Time. It is used in the following places: * the Canary Islands * Portugal (including Madeira but not the Azores) * Ireland * the United Kingdom * the British Crown dependencies * the Faroe Islands Western European Summer Time is also known locally, in the countries concerned, as: * British Summer Time (BST) in the United Kingdom. * Irish Standard Time (IST) ( (ACÉ)) in Ireland. Also sometimes erroneously referred to as "Irish Summer Time" (). The scheme runs from the last ...
Wikipedia says yes.
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes darn i fogot about daylight savings etc. etc.
@Ell and leap seconds!
Ell
Ell
16:49
and wormholes
and the fact that I can travel back in time at will
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second "A leap second is a positive or negative one-second adjustment to the Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time scale that keeps it close to mean solar time."
well that oneboxes poorly
In the 90s we changed to Central European Time (+1 and +2 in summer) and reverted a couple years afterward. Statistics say that school performance dropped and car accidents increased during that time.
Therefore Central European Time is evil.
@MooingDuck We need to fix the damn precession and get rid of that.
I just got downvotes on three questions that are each more than six months old. I think I annoyed someone.
@Robᵩ happens.
What's with the subscript φ? I've seen other people using it before. Does it have a meaning or is it just for decoration purposes?
16:58
@RMartinhoFernandes : Decoration. I used to be my full name, then I decided I didn't want my boss to see that. Then I was "Rob", but I started answering questions asked by some other "Rob". I needed some visual differentiation from the other "Rob"s in the world.
Hi :)
sbi
sbi
@Robᵩ I found your real name (using your activity history) within 2mins.
@sbi - Good thing you're not my boss.
How do you know?
soo hoping I get the Qt5 alpha built on my mac..
17:06
Oh, crud.
@Nils have you tried qt creator 2.5 beta?
@sbi there's a difference between being findable and being blatant with a real name
no
no time so far, still VS and Xcode
@Nils it's supposed to support c++11 stuff, lambdas etc
yes..
sbi
sbi
17:08
@MooingDuck Of course. Starting with his real name, however, would easily reveal his new screen name. (OTOH, his real name will likely reveal millions of hits all across the web...)
> ./configure -prefix $PWD/qtbase -opensource -nomake tests
+ /Users/nils/Desktop/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-5.0.0/qtbase/configure -prefix /Users/nils/Desktop/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-5.0.0/qtbase -opensource -nomake tests
You don't seem to have 'make' or 'gmake' in your PATH.
Cannot proceed.
humm sriously?!
Bye Bye BlackBerry. How Long Will Apple Last?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamthierer/2012/04/01/bye-bye-blackberry-how-long-will-apple-last/
Ell
Ell
whenever i try to quickly and sloppily implement something it never works, i always end up undoing it all and spending more time to do it properly.
oh noes. GetWindowText requires a buffer! how big do i make it?
@Ell does calling it with a NULL buffer return the length needed?
Ell
Ell
17:15
@MooingDuck don't think so :/
I have never worked with c-strings:O
i suppose I ought to learn how to use them >.<
@Ell I was looking over the page, you're right, but look at the bottom at "See also" (hint hint)
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck i was just about to say that
GetWindowTextLength :L
You're untainted! Pristine!
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes me?
std::string get_window_title(HWND hnd) {
 std::string title;
 title.resize(GetWindowTextLength(hnd)+1);
 int r = GetWindowText(hnd, &title[0], title.size()+1);
 if (r < 0)
     throw someexception();
 title.resize(r);
 return title;
}
17:18
2 mins ago, by Ell
I have never worked with c-strings:O
Ell
Ell
I didn't know I could do that? o.O put stuff directly into the buffer of a std::string
@RMartinhoFernandes haha but surely that shows how little experience I have :L
Ell
Ell
:D
Internet Y U no work fast?
@Ell it's dangerous, but allowed. Same with vector. Not others
Ell
Ell
17:20
ahh okay
they explicitly allow it for this specific purpose
I think my title.resize(r); might have to be title.resize(r+1);. Not sure. Maybe it's -1. I'm too lazy to go back and check the docs.
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck why do you need the resize(r) when you already do resize(GetWindowTextLength())?
@MooingDuck You can't write over the terminating null.
Since GetWindowText writes a terminating null, you need to resize(r+1) and end up with two terminating nulls.
I'm desperate for two terminating NULLs?
Ell
Ell
17:22
why does it need 2?
You shouldn't pass title.size() + 1 to GetWindowText.
Btw, shouldn't you be using std::wstring?
That's buffer overflow.
I hate how C++ standards plug in new features. Bringing obscure syntax with them.
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
17:22
@Ell Because it might have changed.
And resizing again afterwards is probably superfluous.
C# has started going that way a bit too. But it still tries to make the syntax readable.
Well, unless you want to get rid of null.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I have forgotten what superfluous means >.<
@CatPlusPlus No, it's not.
17:23
@Ell means "unnedeed, extra work" but I/we disagree
@RMartinhoFernandes Because?
@CatPlusPlus Multitasking
GetWindowTextLength specifically mentions it can return a value larger than the text.
@RMartinhoFernandes lol.
@MooingDuck Wut?
It's a local string.
17:24
@RMartinhoFernandes is it?
@MooingDuck You declared it in a function.
@MooingDuck If there were race condition between GetWindowTextLength and GetWindowText, it wouldn't really help to resize again later.
Ell
Ell
std::string title;
title.resize(GetWindowTextLength(mWindowHandle) + 1); // +1 for null terminator
if(GetWindowText(mWindowHandle, &title[0], title.size()) < 0) {
// Error, GetWindowText returned less than 0, do something (TODO)
} else {
return title;
};
@RMartinhoFernandes GetWindowText can get the title of any window. That title might have changed between getting the length and the actual text.
Ell
Ell
17:26
sorry guys I g2g for pizza time
@Ell Instead of a comment, throw "Error, GetWindowText returned less than 0, do something (TODO) " is probably better.
@Ell send me some.
You have buffer overflow anyway, because you pass size() + 1 as buffer size. :P
@Ell might need a wstring as they said
@CatPlusPlus no wait, he fixed that
Ell
Ell
haha okay, i will ensure i come back and ask for more help :D
17:27
> My skills are way beyond this crap.
^ This thing is going into the Golden Words page.
I usually use vector<char> for temporary buffers.
2
STFU Thunderbird. Stop trying to tell me Google's SMTP server doesn't exist. You won't fool me.
:)
I need a larger desk and a healthier office chair, my neck hurts even though I hit the gym at least twice a week :(
@CatPlusPlus I usually go straight into a string for speed.
Stop hitting the gym with your neck.
17:34
@CatPlusPlus I dislike their new update frequency. None of my addons work anymore.
@Nils I've never bothered to hit the gym. and haven't got neck pain either. Unhealthy lifestyle FTW!
Only really outdated addons stop working now.
Stop changing the past, dammit!
@CatPlusPlus I'll check again, but I think about half the ones I was using gave up a long time ago :(
@CatPlusPlus I keep starting to edit, then someone posts something, I get distracted, and respond in my edit :(
The API is fairly stable AFAIK, it's only that silly version check that's causing addons to not run.
editing is fun.
17:36
@IntermediateHacker yeah but you are probably like 16 years old
What's a gym?
3
@Nils how old are you, then?
@RMartinhoFernandes I've heard of them.
a bit older
@RMartinhoFernandes That place with pokemons.
17:38
@RMartinhoFernandes modern torture chambers.
damn, the robot's conquered all the starred messages pane -->
Get a larger monitor.
@IntermediateHacker AI is getting better at humor than humans.
In case of rogue AI, remember your paradoxes.
@IntermediateHacker Rotate your screen 90º-
I'll warn you that rogue murderous AIs won't bother pausing the killing to understand what their victims are saying.
17:41
@RMartinhoFernandes done but, still, except for catplusplus and tom_mai, you've conquered the starred messages pane.
@CatPlusPlus Doesn't help against True One.
> Unless mankind redesigns itself by changing our DNA through altering our genetic makeup, computer-generated robots will take over our world. ~ Stephen Hawking
they've already taken over the starred messages pane.
I wonder if I need to change my DNA to get a message starred.
sbi
sbi
What are "computer-generated robots"?
@sbi well, I think he's talking about @R
sbi
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Steven Hawking is talking about our robot in residence? Aren't you getting carried away a bit there?
17:49
@sbi yeah. but what else is a computer-generated robot?
sbi
sbi
Damn, I've been banging my head against this error for hours, and I still don't understand it.
I feel flattered.
Q: Is it true that hyenas can change sexes?
A: No mammal can do that. What is true is that the female hyena's genitals look just like the male's: she has a huge clitoris she can erect at will and even has a sack of fibrous tissue that looks like testicles.

Q: My God, why?
A: No one knows for sure. We know what it's used for: the hyena greeting ceremony. Each hyena sniffs and licks the other's genitals and erects its own penis or clitoris. It's like dogs sniffing each other's rumps. Erection is voluntary, like raising your arm.
@sbi What error? We can be your rubber duck
heh I'm glad that this is not the case with the homo sapiens :)
@sbi @Robᵩ Which is actually a nice paradoxical cryptogram: in the bible his creation was unique, now in search engines you will likely find millions of it :)
18:01
Holy nectarines! This Android emulator thing is slower than starving snails on dry pavement.
2
hi all :)
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
@RMartinhoFernandes I've actually learned myself C strings by contributing to open source projects. I learned C++ from the get-go (that is, after Pascal, Assembly, Basic, Prolog) and I must say I rather 'missed' that basis
Using hydrogen peroxide as fuel we have launched some flying objects at Moscow Aviation Institute, the funniest thing was to make shock waves with these objects.
вижу, что народ в ахуе тут полном ))))))))
Ell
Ell
18:17
hi guys
hi
Ell
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes what a lovely piece of text to be greeted with
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Note that this is only true for spotted hyenas. Other mammals have that, too, though.
@user1131997 youtube link?
sbi
sbi
@CollinHockey It's C#. You're still volunteering?
18:18
@sbi I did some C# for a couple days once
@sbi Guessing it's not a cryptic compile error then
sbi
sbi
@CollinHockey I setup a timer. It fires fine. I only now found out (by laboriously filtering and analyzing log files) that it then never fires again.
What kind of timer?
I even used timers!
I know at least three different kinds of timers.
sbi
sbi
18:20
@RMartinhoFernandes System.Threading.Timer
use requsts in youtube:

МАИ
МАИ полет
МАИ аэродинамика
МАИ испытания
there are many videos , try to find
sbi
sbi
I set it up like this:
_myTimer = new Timer((obj) => MyTimerTick(), null, _myTimeout.Milliseconds, _myTimeout.Milliseconds / 2);
is _myTimer getting garbage collected?
sbi
sbi
@CollinHockey In some cases I dispose it, set it to null, and later set it up again. Then it again fires once.
(VS is Preparing Solution....)
sbi
sbi
18:23
Holy shit! I just saw in the logfiles that it fires ~20msecs after it has been setup. How is that??
I assume _myTimeout.Milliseconds is not 1...
eventually I will see what I did, because I do something very similar
@user1131997 У вас есть одно новое сообщение и сорок два сохраненных сообщения.
Oh god, there's gibberish on the chat.
@sbi myTimeout.Milliseconds is 20?
@RMartinhoFernandes he posted random Russian, so I posted random Russian back. Dunno what his says. Mine says he has 1 unread message and 42 unread messages.
sbi
sbi
18:25
@RMartinhoFernandes Lemme debug into this. brb
@MooingDuck he said "open youtube, copy into "search" box one of those lines and press [enter]"
csharp> var myTimer = new System.Threading.Timer(_ => Console.WriteLine("foo"), null, 1000, 500);
csharp> foo
foo
foo
foo
An so on.
I do this: timer = new Timer(new TimerCallback(this.UpdateParams), null, 1000, 1000);
this.UpdateParams is a function
private void UpdateParams(object o)
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn. It's actually 0 (zero). Thanks a ton!
Now I only have to find out why that is...
@sbi if I recall the docs, 0 is valid. It just calls the callback immediately, then acts as normal
18:32
it wouldn't recur though
@MooingDuck But 0/2 is 0, and that means no repetition.
@jalf Here's the checkout command: svn co https://tetris-challenge.googlecode.com/svn/branches/jalf-stm/3rdParty/STM@r1662 STM_r1662
(The 20 ms delay he was seeing must be due to thread pool usage)
Any Android users here?
How do I "close" an application?
@RMartinhoFernandes could be minimum resolution. i seem to recall it was in that neighbourhood
@RMartinhoFernandes no way? there was a task manager, IIRC
18:35
No way? WTF.
it's a different paradigm
you don't need to close anything
@Abyx Except when our Kindle Fire crashes because things ran out of memory
Well, I unlock this thing, and it goes straight to my stupid hello world app. How do I get out of it and back to the normal desktop/menu/whatever?
sbi
sbi
OMG. I thought TimeSpan.Milliseconds would return the timespan in msecs. However, it only returns the time span's msec value. :-/
not sure if that's the fault of the app or the OS though
18:38
Yep.
There's TotalMilliseconds for that.
@sbi Woooo
I should have noticed that. :S
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep. Just found that.
Phew. Thanks, guys!
@RMartinhoFernandes Why would that be a double?! It's not as if the class could deal with nanosecs...
@sbi The smallest unit is the tick, which I believe is 100 ns.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh? I stand corrected then.
Well, it still won't work. Sigh. It's back to the log file then...
Ell
Ell
hi :)
sbi
sbi
Well, the log files say the timer ticks correctly. Maybe the condition it checks doesn't fire. I'll add more log statements to see those...
@RMartinhoFernandes It's that rubbery stuff.
Oh, wait, that's gum.

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