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1:04 AM
@Bassie Is that onion on top?
 
1:47 AM
looks like fish
but no idea what's fish doing on ice cream
 
2:38 AM
 
3:25 AM
@Telkitty such floof!
 
@jaggedSpire More floof
 
3:46 AM
hey
so i disassembled an exe that uses several windows libraries
using DUMPBIN and i also got all the imports
i am having trouble figuring out which functions are being called
so like in the assembly there is the pointer of the function that is called
and i want to find the function that its calling from the imports
but i can't understand how the import stuff is organized
 
 
1 hour later…
4:51 AM
@Telkitty :D
 
Such cute cheetah floof
 
 
2 hours later…
7:10 AM
@MichaelMitchell whatever you're doing, it would be easier to do in HexRays
 
This takes No true scotsman to a whole new level
shit
i did not mean to flag
I meant to do this:
> Please listen to the people who warn you not to inherit from std::string. The STL base classes are not safe to use as base classes.
 
> You cannot counterflag your own message.
Then why does it show up in my flag feed?!?
 
That's what happens when you use StackOverflow at 3AM: Flags start appearing as arrows, and you may as well be hallucinating.
 
"reply as spam/offensive"? ;)
 
can it be offensive spam?
 
7:42 AM
No, it clearly means "spam divided by offensive".
 
What do you think of this statement?
> The primary function of inheriting a non-polymorphic base class is to add all its members to your interface.
 
But public inheritance also gives you polymorphism, and std::string simply wasn't designed as a polymorphic base class.
Anyway, if you want a function from std::string to X, just write a function X foo(const std::string&);... no need to inherit from std::string.
:31355726 I click on a bookmark and then select entries with interesting titles.
Why do you remove your own messages?
 
Because the questions don't have a purpose.
 
user1804599
8:19 AM
Probably full of bugs
 
If they don't clean the fridge.
 
@Bassie Did you just put all the stuff in the top left corner? ;)
 
user1804599
No
 
user1804599
@Shoe yup
 
The ice cream is meant to be eaten with the fish, not vice versa. Genius.
 
9:02 AM
@StackedCrooked o boi the latest OP feels like a filler :-\
 
So, my locum at the C++ meetings wants me to go to Issaqah to discuss that paper about sorting algorithms.
 
 
Not sure I want to pay the trip to the USA + one week of hostel.
@orlp Can't you go in my stead? :o
 
@Morwenn which paper, what is a locum, and what C++ meetings?
 
@orlp P0227 about making std::sort work with forward and bidirectional iterators, the locum is someone who talks for me when I'm not there, and I was talking about the next committee meeting.
 
9:13 AM
for some reason I thought that Issaqah was in the middle east lol
 
yeah it sounds like something in Saudi Arabia
 
Nah, the next three meetings are in North America.
 
@Morwenn can't you video/audio conference?
 
@orlp They don't have the right to stream ISO meetings, so I guess that I can't.
 
but if you were seriously proposing it, no I can't
I'm an US citizen, but I don't have an US passport and would need to get that first
 
9:19 AM
An US passport? Do you need a passport to go in different states?
 
@Morwenn different states? I'm in the netherlands
(which is in europe, not the USA)
 
@orlp Oh, sorry. That US citizen thingy got me confused.
 
dual citizen dutch/us
 
Ok. Too bad then, at least I tried :p
 
9:49 AM
@JossieCalderon "this page I'd unavailable" :(
 
lol
Summary: "Donald Trump contradicted one of his signature policy positions Saturday — saying it “wouldn’t bother” him if a Scottish Muslim came to the U.S."
 
On one hand he appears lest racist
 
On the other, he's violating the "no true scotsman" fallacy - in more ways than one
 
Better be an idiot than a racist
 
muslim is not a race
 
9:55 AM
Better be a Trump than a Terry A. Davis
 
@Telkitty in this context it is
 
@jaggedSpire i had no idea
 
@jaggedSpire That's actually how humans breathe, too.
 
@JossieCalderon hah. Nothing to surprisingreally. Thanks for the mirror link
 
Fuck the new padding in CUDA 8 breaks all my cuFFTs. Why did they do it?
 
9:59 AM
@Mikhail to me it just adds up to a racist idiot
 
On the other hand, why do we "want people from 'Terror Countries'?" I really struggle to answer this question.
 
ITT, terrorists are a race </troll>
 
nwp
@Mikhail that is a strawman argument
 
?
 
nwp
nobody argues "we want people from terror countries", so saying "I don't want people from terror countries, destroy the "I want people from terror countries"-opinion and say I'm right" doesn't make sense
what makes sense is saying "there are no terrorist countries. There are countries with terrorists, which is probably all of them"
 
10:04 AM
The discussion is not about the specific wording of his statement.
What are the advantages of letting these people in? What are the costs?
 
nwp
again, wrong argument
 
If we import 1 million Muslims what do we gain?
 
nwp
you don't know who "these people" are
 
who the fuck cares, who they are exactly
 
import com.wine;
 
nwp
10:07 AM
@Mikhail another strawman argument, nobody wants to import 1 million muslims
 
Anyways, I'm not a Trump supporter but liberals are falling to make coherent statements about issues such as immigration. Specifically, their statements are often about ideas rather than a cost/benifit analysis
 
import country.terrorists;
 
@nwp Fine whatever, can you tell me why we need immigrants?
 
nwp
@Mikhail to strengthen economy, culture, freedom
to reduce nationalism
 
@nwp Okay, so these people come to your country, have lots of kids, take your welfare and never integrate into your culture. Then they piss off the locals and you get Trump and Ukip (which is the opposite of reducing nationalism)
 
10:09 AM
@Mikhail who did you see making coherent statements about it at all
 
nwp
@Mikhail then I'm gonna go on a revenge spree and go to their country and take their welfare!
 
Cool thinking
 
@Mikhail Aziz Ansari is a contradiction to your statement.
 
nwp
and I'll refuse to integrate into their culture, that'll show 'em!
 
@sehe I'm pro-immigrant (being one myself) but statements like "lets kick the Polish people out" are actually coherent. What we in the US call "liberals" aren't making clear statements.
 
10:12 AM
Nobody needs refugees. But they exist. Now, come up with a humane response to reality that leads to a wield where you yourself would want to live. Even if you were to be a refugee
 
nwp
the issue is that making easy to understand but wrong statements like "lets kick out X" is easy while coming up with good definitions of who to kick out when and why is hard
 
@nwp IDK, there are clear reasons to kick them out. They took your job, for example.
 
@Mikhail wel. It's a sentence. So there's that. But as a policy it seems to lack any external reasoning to make it "coherent"
 
Hi guys...
 
nwp
@Mikhail if they take my job, as an immigrant who doesn't speak the language, who has no formal education or even informal education, then I'd say I deserve it
2
 
10:14 AM
@nwp louie ck? is that you?
 
@sehe Which is exactly our problem :-)
 
nwp
@Borgleader no, I've only been here under nwp
 
@nwp ah. That's probably it. "Coherent" is to be substituted with "making immediate sense", aka populism
 
How do you take someone's job anyway? You infiltrate their life and sabotage their performance for months till they get fired, and then apply to the position, get interviewed and selected?
 
10:16 AM
@Mikhail please tell me you're joking. In going to bow out now
 
nwp
@sehe I think it is a learning discussion. You argue strongly for a certain view to figure out if it has merit. Before you actually form an opinion on the matter.
 
Earth to Mikhail
 
@Mikhail Depends on where are you at in the society. For example, as an employer or a landlord/lady, one generally welcomes foreign workers
 
@nwp Foremost, the jobs of US tech workers are constantly under threat from foreigners. At Microsoft you gotta take shit because your employer can replace you with some Indian dude. Famously Disney layed off a few hundred employees and replaced them with H1B workers. Even in lower paying jobs like farm work in the US, migrant labor from Mexico is used instead of local labor. These migrants typically make slightly above minimal wage, in communities with over 10% unemployment.
Every year India graduates millions of software engineers
 
nwp
argument still stands
 
10:24 AM
That you would be happy to be replaced by the 3 million Indian people?
 
nwp
if they are better than me or do the same job for less money I don't deserver my job or am overpaid
2
I wouldn't be happy at all, I would need to find a new job or even profession
but blocking them on the border so I can keep my overpaid job that others can do better is not sustainable
 
Engineers in India (today) get $400 dollars a month, would you be "Okay" with that salary?
 
@Mikhail the aim is to own as much properties as possible, let foreigners push up demand, and thus the property prices & rents, then sell/rent it out to them. Home ground advantage ...
 
Do you want the whole world to drop to those standards?
 
nwp
the world doesn't drop, the world thrives under these conditions
 
10:26 AM
There are always winners and losers in any situation, try not be on the losing side
 
Is getting paid $400 a month thriving?
 
well, to be fair, those Indians didn't ask to be born in a poorer country ...
 
nwp
with good engineers that only get 400$ per month I'll make a software company and become super rich
 
How much are they going to buy it for?
 
nwp
buy what? my company? my software? if it produces enough value it will be enough. If it doesn't maybe I'm shit at running a company too and hire a 200$ indian manager to do it for me.
 
10:28 AM
Further, one reason Indian can pay their engineers so little money is because stuff in India is cheap - one reason stuff is cheaper is because everything is done with a disregard for the environment. Do we really want to in a polluted shit hole?
 
@Mikhail You mean theyre doing exactly what we were doing not so long ago?
 
user1804599
yay collision detection
 
nwp
@Mikhail doesn't apply to my country, we have fairly strict regulations that prevent you from ruining the environment too much. But your point means that indians in not india are expensive too, so no competing with my job,
 
@Mikhail most European countries have better regulated job markets than the US
The US is terrible by our standards
Not that that prevents illegal work
 
10:31 AM
U.S. minimum wage is very low compare to most other developed countries
 
speaking of the H1B situation, has any mainstream politician said anything about it?
 
At the end of the day, these right wing movements have a very clear message in terms of costs and consequences, while the globalization movement has some philosophical positions which can be taken to strange extremes. As @sehe pointed out, one argument the left has made consistently is to emphasize with migrants, on the other hand the parallel societies they create make this increasingly difficult.
 
And I don't really mind foreign works coming into the country I am in as long as they abide by the law and are hard working, nobody asked to born poor. And if through effort they can having a better living standard, the it should encouraged
 
nwp
@Telkitty why through effort? effort has no value. They should be producing value that benefits everyone, then they can be paid.
 
@Mikhail takes two to tango.
Parallel societies come in pairs.
 
10:36 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, so fucking don't let the other one in
 
@Mikhail immigration can have tangible benefits.
 
That's true! I like Indian food.
 
Not clear why those benefits can't be obtained by those people already here (wherever that is)
 
@nwp that's what I mean :p
 
@Mikhail Because Americans don't cook Indian food like Indians do.
 
10:38 AM
If you live in the US and you have to ask that, I'm just going to bow out now.
I don't expect an inkling of knowledge about European history, but you should have some on American history.
 
@Mikhail emphasize?
Also, I didn't point that out about arguments the left have made. It's just something I said in response to a ludicrous "what do we need immigrants for". I mean, tell me why do we need Finland.
 
@sehe How else would we finish anything? ... wheres the door again?
 
@Mikhail It stabilizes the world more because people have more choice than to sit and rot or get killed, or move to a better place. This is a net benefit in the dynamics of government
 
@sehe hey you bowed out already
 
@nwp yay. We've found the real Donald :)
@LucDanton Waiting for my breakfast to get ready. Ovens are the slows
 
10:42 AM
@sehe Could we say that instead of fighting ISIS they fled to Sweden?
 
@nwp it's not a learning discussion if one side argues from little actual knowledge on the matter at hand. Playing devil's advocate is only useful from an educated standpoint.
What Mikhail has been spouting is nonsense in the face of history and the demographics of immigrants.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Specifically what?
 
you simultaneously complained that immigrants accept welfare and take jobs
 
@LucDanton Which they do?
 
10:45 AM
the H1B people?
Which one?
This is the tech worker one
 
@Mikhail historically, large immigration waves improve working conditions for the middle classes.
Immigrants have very awkward demographics that fit well as explanation for that too (to say it's not just correlation)
 
idk, the US middle class grew extensively during the 1960s when immigration was in a lul
 
"The first topic to cover is the theory behind how compilers generally treat classes. One thing to remember is that this information may not apply to all compilers in all circumstances." Knowing this, is it worth it to study how virtual is used "under the hood" in C++?
 
Sounds wrong to me, since the immigration gates were actually reopened in the 60s
 
e.g. Is it worth low-level C++ programmers to know how it works under the hood?
 
10:49 AM
 
(Also, you seem to be expecting results contemporaneous with the immigration waves; that's naive)
 
@LucDanton ça peut être un matchup très intéressant, ça donne quoi ?
 
Once again, the right wing politicians can draw a very clear line from cause and effect, and the people on the left make some vague appeals to history or ideology.
 
@KretabChabawenizc pas joué ce week-end
 
@Mikhail show me.
 
10:51 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes which one?
 
Your chart shows a resume of immigration in the 60s.
 
Exactly!
 
What does "immigrant" mean in the context of the US? lol
 
@KretabChabawenizc Everyone pretty much :P
 
If anything the number should hover around 100% since ~1500
 
10:52 AM
@KretabChabawenizc Everybody they don't like, hell some of them believe Jews are Asian
 
@Mikhail I'm just saying it matches my expectation.
 
@Mikhail Aren't Jews Asian though?
Jewdistan is in central asia IIRC
 
@KretabChabawenizc semite, but most would consider them white
 
Your expectations of contemporaneous results are unreasonable.
 
@Mikhail oh good
so they're actually reasonable people
 
10:54 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The graph shows that the period of least immigration was the 1960s, when the US had the most economic growth.
 
I've said contemporaneousness doesn't make sense twice already.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Use shorter words ;)
 
Well, they've been coming since the 1980s and we still haven't seen the promised growth rates
 
@Borgleader "no"
 
Gotta go lunch. Hope a dirty immigrant sabotages your performance and takes over your job.
 
nwp
10:58 AM
that really doesn't look like the inverse of the immigration curve
 
can't see it
 
click on it
 
@Mikhail Correlation != Causation
 
@StackedCrooked wait wat - boku no hero academia has only 13 epis and now we have to wait for S2? jesus
 
Wait, am I understanding this correctly? Mikhail - of Russian migrant descent - is against immigration?
 
11:01 AM
@nwp You need the one that corrected to current dollars, for example: markbc.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/… There is a reason that people say the average income in the US hasn't grown.
 
@KretabChabawenizc it’s more of a criticism of political/civil(lol) discourse
 
nwp
@Mikhail so unless the lack of immigrants has a 20 year delayed effect I still don't see it
 
@LucDanton Allons bon
 
nwp
it is expected that immigration rises and falls with economy though
 
> Non-binary, femme-presenting, queer/pansexual, sex-positive maker & entrepreneur who's more interested in people than tech. Founder of @EffingFound. (they/them)
Not commenting on this because I'd get banned but yeah
 
11:03 AM
Good growth, and no immigrants
 
@Mikhail Correlation != Causation
 
@Mikhail wtf man
correlating immigrants with muslims is like, extremely uneducated as fuck
 
корреляции не равен причинно-следственной связи
 
please never immigrate to my country
 
Anyways, as mentioned earlier I'm in favor of globalization but I think that until clear statements can be made as to its advantages we're going continue seeing a rise in nationalism, xenophobia and toxic populism.
 
11:09 AM
All toxic terminology.
 
The problem is not so much whether clear explanations can be made. It's about clear explanations can be easily rejected by convenient majorities.
 
nwp
has anyone played with the gsl from the c++ core guidelines? I really like gsl::span.
 
@JossieCalderon +1
@KretabChabawenizc Or meaybe, do! And learn.
 
@sehe inch'allah
> Brexit petition: More than a million people demand change to EU referendum rules to force second vote
Supporters want a rule to re-run votes with a majority under 60% and turnout under 75%
 
user1804599
More than a million people demand leaving the EU.
 
nwp
11:17 AM
@Mikhail I see your point. Unfortunately clear statements don't correlate with what is the right thing to do. I would even struggle to tell you the clear advantage of keeping old sick people fed instead of killing them off while "lets kill useless people" is a clear statement. But that doesn't make it right.
 
wrongfold
 
Ben
what the hell am I doing here?
 
> I live in New Zealand, and I enjoy writing code and learning new things.
3
 
user1804599
eww, nationalist border-acknowledging racist scum
 
nwp
11:22 AM
@Ben wasting your time reading about stuff that is only mildly entertaining because it is the best trade-off between not working and not feeling guilty?
 
Ben
not inciting a reaction, oh well.
 
Somebody stared something
 
Ben
@nwp programming is mildly entertaining, especially when your idea comes to fruition and actually works.
or if ideas can be put together correctly.
 
I, personally, enjoy the copy and pasting. Also teh build times.
 
Ben
11:26 AM
@Mikhail I don't usually do that, in fact I'd rather write my own code if I can.
 
@Ben make silentoldconfig && make -j15 && make install && make modules_install
 
Ben
@Mikhail I've had a build process take over night before.
 
nwp
using gsl::span<gsl::string_span> to wrap int argc, char *argv[] seems like a good idea, I should just make up my mind if I want to use gsl::string_span or std::experimental::string_view
probably string_span because string_view has that immutability issue :P
 
@nwp An alternative to this is the GetOpt interface in Qt or Boost.Program_options.
 
@Bassie More than a million people demand leaving the UK
 
user1804599
11:39 AM
More than a million people come from China.
 
user1804599
Therefore everybody should come from China.
 
Billions of people stay in China.
Dozens of people can't afford China.
Nobody doesn't understand this pun.
 
(fine China)
 
Ben
refrain from saying the javascript pun
 
HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT GAMES DONE QUICK IN ONE WEEK HYYYYYPE
 
nwp
@Mikhail I was using boost::program_options, it was not sufficient :(
 
@JossieCalderon I don't think that's entirely the right way to view it
 
China will conquer you all
 
the keyword virtual is about runtime type information
there are other ways to implement it than simple offsets
 
nwp
it would actually make sense to just use boost::program_options and accept it as it is, just to concentrate on important code instead of boiler plate code
 
Ben
11:47 AM
@KretabChabawenizc you seem, informal of late? even, humorous. Why?
 
Yeah, C++ virtual is messed up because half the time we just want a contract rather than virtual dispatch.
 
If you wanted a contract you should've gotten a lawyer
 
nwp
I wish we had const constructors so that for example vector<const string> would be convertible to const vector<string>
 
I prefer Eiffel
 
user1804599
You do.
 
user1804599
11:48 AM
vector<string const> ys(...);
vector<string> const xs(ys.begin(), ys.end());
 
@orlp You're right.
 
@KretabChabawenizc hrm, you went full bumbledon ratchetpot with your name, didn't you?
 
nwp
@Bassie without copying everything
 
user1804599
That's unsafe.
 
@nwp I'm sorry, what
 
11:50 AM
@nwp logically that is not the same
 
The invariants of those two types are different
 
I can have a box, to which I can add items but I can not open the items themselves
 
@orlp excuse me what
 
nwp
@Shoe I have a void foo(const vector<string> &arg); and a vector<const string> v;. It should be possible to call foo(v) without any copies made.
 
or I can have a box with open items but the items are glued in place
 
11:51 AM
@nwp Not really
 
although I guess you used anagrams
 
That's extremely unsafe
 
@orlp never in public
 
It basically throws const correctness out of the window
 
nwp
how is it unsafe? how does it break const correctness?
 
11:52 AM
@nwp that’s little to do with constructors, as demonstrated by the fact you don’t want anything to be constructed
 
@nwp because then anyone can modify the content of the vector?
 
nwp
@LucDanton hmm true
 
@nwp Inside foo you can modify the items of the vector, but you shouldn't
 
nwp
@Shoe I can't, arg is const
 
a const vector<...> is a vector that can not add or remove elements, a vector<const ...> is a vector that has elements that can not be modified
they're separate concepts
 
11:53 AM
@nwp That only implies that you can't add or remove elements from the vector
It says nothing about the elements you already have
 
this is a const vector:
the elements can change, but not its size
 
It's similar to const T* and T* const
 
looks more like an std::array to me
 
nwp
@Shoe oh, you're right... why am I so bad?
 
11:54 AM
this is a vector<const T>
you can add/remove elements, but the elements themselve can not be modified
(assuming you're not a weirdo and open goods in the supermarket)
 
if constexpr already working in clang-SVN :) melpon.org/wandbox/permlink/whJY2VtuQkmf9l8H
 
That's actually a p good metaphor
 
goodbye tag dispatching
 
Ben
I like template variadic parameter unpacking.
 
@TemplateRex you will not be missed
 
nwp
11:58 AM
this is what I meant, you should be able to pass a vector<string> as a const vector<const string> &.
 
could you just template?
 
Ven
Do you even templates bro
 
nwp
@Mikhail at the cost of clarity, yes
 
in the near gcc future, you can write everything with lambas and have the argument be auto.
 

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