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user1804599
21:00
I want a new world to open up for me again
user1804599
It's been too long
nwp
nwp
try going outside?
@Zoidberg Switch jobs.
user1804599
Eek
Get a job with a challenge. One where there are intimidating coworkers that have lots more experience. :)
user1804599
21:02
My current job is quite challenging
user1804599
Working with incompetent code destroyers is extremely difficult
user1804599
Although it has been a lot easier to make the code less destructible since we exploit type checkers, unit tests, and documentation.
nwp
nwp
is there something like ideone for browsers instead of compilers where you can enter a URL and it gives you a picture of the page rendered by various browsers?
@Zoidberg lel
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still tend toward disagreement. In particular, although they list meanings 2 and 3 separately, real use tends to reflect at least some of meaning three in nearly every case--that is, it only really counts if at least part of its recognition is for being good. Rolex is iconic. Timex...not so much.
21:04
@nwp yes
There are many. GIYF
user1804599
However we have the benefit of using PHP now
user1804599
Because the guys don't know what static variables are
user1804599
And in PHP it's rather difficult to create global variables because of its retarded scoping rules
nwp
nwp
@sehe Thats a lie, google hates me. "Browser explorer" "compare browser output" ... maybe my google skillz are seriously lacking
user1804599
21:09
I want to study some more abstract mathematics and proving
user1804599
And see how I can apply that to software development
Ven
Ven
Little late to the party, but this really should be taken down. You could have combined the JS example of scope with the provided solution to the NG-Click/Repeater problem. That would have been a great post. — snowYetis 2 hours ago
@sehe is that considered asshole-ish enough?
For what purpose? It's all relative
user1804599
Btw I wrote a blog post about encoding control flows with GADTs as a category
Zoidnok Milewpik
Ven
Ven
21:13
"This really should be taken down"
user1804599
I got the idea after a flashback about a talk I've seen on YouTube by Tom LaGatta.
user1804599
It instantly occurred to me: I can map this to a bunch of void types and a GADT.
@Ven It's his opinion. IDGmF
Ven
Ven
Meh. Replied with same tone, because I'm an asshole
user1804599
Asshole
21:20
@Ven I tend to leave such comments alone. Attention leads to discussion which attracts more attention. Soon enough people will say "when there's smoke, there must be fire" and help with the voting.
Ven
Ven
:P true, but this one is already controversial enough.
user1804599
Where there is smoke, there is lung cancer.
I agree with the sentiment of many commenters that ~ although you need to understand JS scopes, that doesn't make it an answer. It's really sort of an urgent comment in that sense.
I'm also afraid that Iain has a point: "Scope in AngularJS works this way by design but it could just as equally not".
@Zoidberg Where there are lungs, there's cancer. - Anonymous statistician
user1804599
In the JS culture it is politically incorrect to demand understanding, for it is entirely based on cargoculting.
Well, the question being reasonable, it makes sense to have an answer assuming people who do understand will find it often enough.
nwp
nwp
21:25
is it a coincidence that rust's package manager is called cargo? </tinfoilhat>
user1804599
You see this trend everywhere in the JS world: special cases to make things easier for the oblivious, tutorial-driven design, "quick start" (vs quick longterm) guides that do things that less prominent documentation discourages, etc
Evening
@Zoidberg I can confirm
crates <-> cargo
It's not coincidence
@Zoidberg Agree
user1804599
21:27
Its hilarious
nwp
nwp
crate is a rust term for something like a module?
user1804599
Angular quickstart demonstrates using the retarded IoC mechanism that reads out function parameter names
user1804599
but if you read more of the docs then they say it's discouraged to use that mechanism
user1804599
@nwp it's like a .NET assembly
@nwp Crate's a module yes
user1804599
21:29
No modules are more like namespaces
It also has some magical scoping associated with it
@nwp A package AFAICT (containing one or more modules)
nwp
nwp
they should make a crate description language called cult
A great description language called cunt
user1804599
DongML
21:30
@Zoidberg The _abc_ parameter names?
Which then extracts abc?
Or do you simply mean the dependency injector?
user1804599
Like function($scope) {} instead of ['$scope', function($scope) {}]
user1804599
It breaks with minifiers
user1804599
And optimizers
user1804599
And anything a sane programmer could do: refactoring
> [11:35 PM] Bartek: If you guys can't navigate at 299,792.458 km/s safely, doesn't mean I can't. I have types and modans instead of helmet.
[11:35 PM] Bartek: Me and my gopnik friends harder than a thousand blins. Just ask Pyotr, Igor and Kolya.
21:37
I would like to thank Belgium for their contribution to the world. Such as Chocolate, Tintin and 2 Unlimited.
lolwut /cc @StackedCrooked @TonyTheLion
@Zoidberg Wow. We use it everywhere. What's the alternative?
user1804599
Belgium sucks
@Zoidberg O, that, then. Is that ... ES5?
user1804599
Long live Flanders
user1804599
@sehe yeah just normal ES5
user1804599
Specify deps as array elements followed by the function
user1804599
21:39
Congratulations! You can now use abstractions and optmizers!
Oh wait. There's no magic. It's just a nicer core-language mechanism to declare the deps
user1804599
You can now also name the parameters whatever you want, eg to avoid shadowing
user1804599
#makelexicalscopinggreatagain
60% CPU spent on I/O for the past six months. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ven
Ven
@sehe my answer explains js prototyps :)
21:46
@BartekBanachewicz WTH are you talking about? My Samsung TV can play movies out of my PC thanks to DLNA and WiFi connection.
Ven
Ven
Also the "could equally not" is retarded. "Hey, this could be implemented in a different way and have totally different semantics" then it'd be a different framework.
@Ven ikr
@Ven Erm. You explain a JS feature. There's no reason for it to apply to the concept of Angular scopes
Ven
Ven
The reason is that the Angular people chose that
user1804599
Angular scope nesting is fully based on prototypes
Ven
Ven
If I say "they work like X (literally exactly the same), here's how X works" and you still can't understand that they're the same, you have much more stuff to learn
21:50
Like I said, I was "afraid" Iain had a point. It's not my territory
Ven
Ven
It's soon enough gonna be :P.
user1804599
rightfold bulletproof counter-terrorism plan: just replace all security personnel with pigs
Okay, got something akin to a minimized testcase for a segfault in GCC 6.1; any ideas if something can actually be removed from it? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/183d68582a03ec57
(I think I've tried all the most obvious things to remove...)
Removed the std::string usage.
Oh. That is interesting.
22:00
@Zoidberg wouldn't catch right-wing extremists
Will you submit it or just wank about it in Lounge?
user1804599
@slaphappy ok, keep the security personnel as well
Okay, minimized it further.
@Griwes liiiiiiiiiiiiink
22:06
If you make the lambda argument a concrete type, it stops segfaulting.
You can drop int arg from generate()
true
user1804599
Blood is the coolest organ ever
coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/778b86acbcc99532 - dropped all the forwarding nonsense
my link above did though
@набиячлэвэлиь no, you just made an ambiguous call
GCC doesn't segfault on that
22:15
oh fuck I can't into reading, soz
Okay, less generic boilerplate: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/a896c7545658302e
I will probably report it, though definitely not tonight.
(...and knowing life, it'll get closed as duplicate because litb will report it five minutes earlier...)
Though the question now is, how do I work around that for 6.1, since the auto lambda argument is kinda how this thing I've been fighting with works...
> The satellite managed to make one crucial astronomical observation before the accident, capturing gas motions in a galaxy cluster in the constellation Perseus. The instrument that made the observation, a high-resolution spectrometer, had been in the works for three decades. Two earlier versions of it were lost in previous spacecraft failures.
So sad
Ewww.
For all the ruby hatists: bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/9569
> I think I'm officially giving up on this one. Four months ago I warned the Ruby Core team that a bug in the OpenSSL PRNG can cause security problems for Ruby proper. This has happened of course. Still the team thinks it's a better approach to use a userland RNG instead of the one provided (and well maintained) in the respective kernels and accessible via system calls.

I'm a long-time Ruby developer, but I think I will never use Ruby again for any security-critical code parts. This reminds me of API discussions we had for PHP4 years back and just makes me sad. Expect weaponized exploits t
22:23
This is already in a context where I can't just use a lambda because GCC sucks.
This would mean a second layer of workarounds ;_;
user1804599
Lol ruby
Workarounds within workarounds.
Reminds me of C++ around 2000
user1804599
I wonder if voting fraud could be prevented by having each voter generate a random digit sequence, have them copy the sequence to the ballot, and after the votes have been collected publish the (sequence, vote) pairs
user1804599
This way everyone can verify that their vote was correctly recorded, and it's still anonymous
22:28
Not a bad idea. Also, pretty trivial idea. It's basically a cookie.
user1804599
Lots of work though
user1804599
Counting will take much longer if you do it on paper
Why would you do it on paper.
user1804599
If you use voting machines then you could have them generate and print the sequences
Problem with that is that privacy is gone.
22:30
@sehe oo the linked entropy presentation is getting me interested, which is unusual for a video
user1804599
No it isnt
It's not easy to trust the machine to actually print randomness. How am I going to know it's true random?
user1804599
How would it be?
They could just hash your BSN or so
user1804599
Well there's always the issue with voting machines
user1804599
22:31
How do you know they don't have a hidden camera that photographs you while you vote?
That's true. You were trying to solve that by providing proof though. Not replace it with another trust issue.
user1804599
No the sequence it prints is the one you use to verify later
So, if you can fix it without introducing a privacy concern, that's strictly an improvemment, regardless of independent concerns that have always existed
user1804599
Also they can't hash your BSN. The machine can't know your BSN. It doesn't know who you are
user1804599
It's a dumb vote collector and digit sequence generator
22:33
Pffft. Welcome to the 21st century. Of course it can. You need to trust it doesn't have this info.
It should be a dumb vote collector.
user1804599
It's three lines of code
All the voting machines I read about had unnecessary network connections and insecure OS
user1804599
So do it on paper then
there are lots of windows 95 ATM machines around. those crap ones in stores
I wouldn't trust it to print me random numbers and guarantee my privacy. I'd much rather generate my own, even if it means a malicious peer could purposely collide on the same "secure cookie" by stealing and copying mine
22:34
@sehe the de-escalation by OP & Co is certainly commendable
@Zoidberg Same deal
user1804599
Why?
user1804599
It isn't. Ballots are in random order. You can't trace them back to the voters.
@LucDanton Yeah. It could be uglier. I also like the mentality "If the man page doesn't say this is ok for crypto usage, I won't do it" - He has a point.
It's just, the reported makes his case overwhelmingly
user1804599
Just like it already is right now.
22:36
@Zoidberg Oh. Preprinted - that works
Well. Not actually. Then you are guaranteed that the printer is aware of the identity of the voter associated with the secure cookie
yeah it’s also the change of strategy mid-way to quoting authority since that’s what the devs are after (somewhat understandably) that impressed me
user1804599
You'd just take the current situation, except you add the following: every voter writes their own sequence on the ballot in a field reserved for that, the ballot counters enter submit not only the total vote counts, but also the (sequence, vote) pairs to the voting commission, which then publishes all those pairs and computers the seat counts
perhaps crypto doesn’t allow for incivility to last long
@LucDanton I love the way the "Python uses openSSL.* functions" claim was rectified
user1804599
Since voters generate the sequences themselves, and keep them secret (ballots are anonymous), they can't be traced back
22:38
@LucDanton There must be point to that. But I'm confused because in my mind the same thing should go for C++ programming (it's a field that requires patient minds)
does it? imo you can half-ass it and deflect lots of criticism with 'well it does what I need so whatever you say doesn’t matter to me'
@Zoidberg Much too error prone. You'd get hundreds if not thousands of dispute calls ("I can't find my vote in the public listings") and they would have to be ... handled how? It's easy to dispute a missing listing, but there's no way to prove that it was missed/counted/...
user1804599
vOv
@Zoidberg I like the "self-generated" thing, but it has to be digitally entered for it to be half-reliable
@LucDanton Same with crypto IYAM. This is why we have all these flawed libs and protocols
user1804599
Also I know a nice way to avoid the voting threshold mess that happened with latest referendum
user1804599
22:42
Make not voting illegal and punish heavily. Near-100% threshold guaranteed.
@Zoidberg That's not a technical issue. You can't solve political issues with technolog
user1804599
Like the southern neighbors do :D
@Zoidberg Oh I see. No techno solution
I suppose broken is broken
user1804599
GeenPeil GeenGezeik
22:43
@Zoidberg What. BE? I'd expect that to be in a totalitarian regime
user1804599
Not voting is illegal in BE
o.O foh realz?
user1804599
You get a fine of about €15 IIRC
LOL.
user1804599
And if you do it repeatedly you lose your right to vote
user1804599
22:45
North Korea is one of the few countries where votes are not anonymous.
@sehe maybe the underlying foundation of mathematics then
That's ... I don't know. It makes a liiiiiittle bit of sense, but then it seems odd/not fair
user1804599
@sehe you can still vote blank/invalid
user1804599
But it solves the problem of people being too lazy to vote, and then complaining their party didn't get a lot of votes
user1804599
Because if you aren't neutral, and you are at the voting station anyway, you might as well just vote
22:46
@LucDanton Yeah. That's one thing. It's very nice to just be able to link to a proof and be done with discussion. Although mathematicians seem to find ways to discredit proofs in ways that aren't necessary accepted as truth by all fellow mathematicians...
@Zoidberg Since when is that a problem.
user1804599
32% opkomst topkek
@Zoidberg That's not my point. Say, for some reason, you didn't vote when you were younger. (Say, you have been clinically depressed, were in a church that disapproves or whatnot). Should you be banned from voting for life? It seems unfair to me
user1804599
Maybe you lose it temporarily
user1804599
I don't know the exact rules
@Zoidberg I mean specifically people complaining about the results after not-voting. That doesn't seem like an issue to me
Ah. I'm not gonna find out right now. Interesting nonetheless
user1804599
22:49
> Wie niet stemt begaat een overtreding en riskeert een berisping of boete van de correctionele rechtbank. De bedragen variëren normaal tussen de 27,50 en 55 euro, bij herhaling kan de geldboete echter tot 137,5 euro oplopen [1]. Wie binnen 15 jaar vier of meer keren niet opkomt riskeert ontneming van het stemrecht voor een periode van tien jaar en bovendien uitsluiting van benoemingen,
user1804599
Stel dat die tokkies stemplicht hebben. PVV ineens 76 zetels
Sure. Vergeet even dat er ook normale mensen met stemplicht zijn :)
oh, stem|plicht not stemp|licht right?
Indeed.
Obligation to vote
user1804599
@sehe you're old and wise how do I get more disciplined
23:00
I'm not qualified to tell you.
My trick is to look for motivation.
I think I mentioned that the other day.
@sehe do you happen to know of a good TV series in Dutch or Flemish?
user1804599
I'm trying to discipline pure functional programming in Hack, which works fine so far.
user1804599
Not drinking soda also works quite well; have been doing it for two weeks already!
Again, not qualified. I don't watch TV, basically. And certainly not Dutch stuff.
user1804599
@Luc Penoza is pretty good
23:01
yeah that’s always the big hurdle
@Zoidberg Cool. I have to watch that a little, since our office doesn't have a water cooler - but does have a mini-fridge with soda/"vitamin" drinks etc.
feature-length films sure, but when it comes to TV series all I can get is English-speaking recommendations
user1804599
Also Belicher: cel
Looks like gibberish to me ^
user1804599
@sehe I just get H2CO3 (lol) in bottles
23:03
I've asked for them. But they haven't arrived. Maybe they didn't think I was serious.
I like films but I find the recurring nature of series to be a good fit for learning a language (well at least that’s how it worked for me with English)
user1804599
@sehe we go to supermarket every day
user1804599
And split the bill using splittable.co
That works. That would be a bit impractical in Den Haag Laan van NOI
So, it's SLIGRO and our office manager handles it
@LucDanton Watch dubs!
Ugh.
23:05
@R.MartinhoFernandes sooner or later I’ll ask you about German media btw
user1804599
@sehe the next discipline is to go to sleep before 12 AM
sup guise
did you miss me?
user1804599
no
user1804599
you can leave now
23:07
@TonyTheLion I summoned you.
@TonyTheLion Little bits. I think you were in discord (gr)
you talk about sex?
user1804599
@TonyTheLion please don't fart in the lounge
@TonyTheLion Sex isn't spelled @TonyTheLion (although I've just suggested the redirection on wikipedia)
user1804599
public static function vectorConcat<T>(): Monoid<ImmVector<T>> {
    return self::make(($a, $b) ==> $a->concat($b), ImmVector{});
}
user1804599
23:11
Monoid is really a nice interface
user1804599
Simple and super versatile
user1804599
What is that?
user1804599
It's vector as in C++ vector. Array.
Multiple Monoids (analogous to polymer -> monomer)
user1804599
23:13
😪
> polyoid ‎(genetics) Having multiple copies of each chromosome
WTF. Can't seem to be able to emerge jre without X
> >package management
more like package mismanagement amirite
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wow. Debian has that down
@TonyTheLion So where did you go (except discord)?
Nope. You were here yesterday. I remember vs6
This used to work, but now some package seems to ignore my request to emerge without X.
Need to find which
23:23
Sounds like an odd thing to break on a distro like Gentoo
Are you running with unstable keywords? (~amd64)
23:49
Actually its quite frequent
Also there is going to be GCC5/6 ABI change Apocalypse soon
@Mikhail Do you by any chance have access to a Windows machine with more than 64 logical cores?
One of my beta-testers just reported that my (untested) multi-processor group support works as well as untested code.

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