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sbi
3:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'd rather we pin the announcement of what that is, rather than the naked link nobody can derive anything from.
 
@Ninefingers it's not that I don't think I can just wander in. I know I can, and as you've seen, I do so on occasion
I just don't want to wander in, in the same way that I don't want to wander in on a bank robbery in progress. I could walk in and do my best to improve the situation, but honestly, it's not really what I want to do with my life.
 
@sbi Like this?
 
sbi
@Ninefingers See, it was the opposite for me: I just wandered in there, and got bitten time and again.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep. Thanks. (I didn't just want to overrule your decision without first explaining why I disagreed with it.)
 
In any case, thanks for the invitation/notification. Knowing that the room exists is nice, at least, so I can drop in if/when I want to
 
@sbi And thanks to the mod that edited the message to be a link.
 
3:02 PM
and by the way, I am not trying to say that "meta is like a bank robbery"
Before anyone gets any funny ideas about how much I hate meta
 
@jalf Just because there's money to be gained from it! </joke>
 
That'd probably be @Shog9. Thanks :)
 
JALF COMPARES META TO CRIMINAL EVENTS! RAWR!
 
but it was an example of a situation where you could possibly make a difference and make the world a better place by interfering, but a lot of people, for perfectly valid reasons, don't want to
@Shog9 well, yeah, where there's meta police, there's meta crimes, right?
:)
 
meta is unhealthy
 
3:04 PM
It's funny... One of the quickest ways to make the MSO regulars either love or hate you is to go on MSO and talk about MSO. It's like talking about SO on SO was in the old days.
[meta-meta]
 
@Shog9 You don't say. I think both @sbi and I have noticed that. ;)
guess whether MSO regulars love us or hate us ;)
 
@Shog9 too many layers of indirection :P
 
sbi
@Shog9 How is that rare?
 
this rule of indirection doesn't apply to meta :P
haters gonna hate
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes What, @Ninefingers is a mod?
Ah, on Crypto. I didn't know that.
 
3:06 PM
I hope not. He said that if he was ever made a mod, he'd delete this room ;)
 
@sbi No, but mods can edit any message. I guess it was @Shog9.
 
@jalf oh man, did you piss him off that much :)
 
I think it was @sbi, actually
 
9fingers is a mod on crypto, but not SO. I edited the message.
 
I joined in later ;)
 
3:07 PM
lol
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, that's true! Thanks, @Shog!
 
the pisses-off-meta-police-faster-than-anyone-else-brigade is @jalf and @sbi.
 
lol
 
@jalf That was a heat of the moment thing and probably not my wisest comment - for that I apologise. I would certainly wander in here and say "hey guys, not helping, please stop, you've some good points, don't spoil it". It was a frustrating weekend and I can at least say I was not always on best form :(
 
sbi
@jalf Who's that?
 
3:08 PM
how can a person piss of a website?
 
sbi
@jalf I was what?
 
@Ninefingers oh, don't worry, I didn't believe you meant it. :)
 
@sbi @Ninefingers.
@sbi Who pissed off @Ninefingers enough to want to delete the lounge.
 
@sbi you pissed him off enough to make that comment about this chat
 
eh
 
3:10 PM
@Ninefingers So, would I be pushing my luck if I said that now you know how non-Meta citizens feel all the time? ;)
 
Yay, only 8 repcaps remaining for that damn badge.
 
ohh I got a C badge today :)
bronze only, though
 
@TonyTheLion meh. You can see this phenomena every day with users who get some idea shot down and think the solution is to post a rant about how MSO is full of nazis / trolls / stodgy old men / dangerous radicals / waffles. It doesn't go well for them. The problem with calling out a website is that there are hundreds of users there, and everyone thinks you're talking about them personally.
 
@jalf Not at all. I might even go so far as to star it... maybe ;)
 
sbi
@jalf You mean because at least 50% of the oh-so-offending messages he cited were by me? Haha, and then he told me "certain members have been peddling the 'meta police' line repeatedly."
 
3:12 PM
@Shog9 ha, you make a valid point sir. If you want to delete my message, you may :)
 
@Shog9 by the way, did my clarifying comments help any? Or should I still be ashamed? :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion He may do so without your consent, remember? :)
 
@sbi Heh. "Certain members"? This whole chatroom uses that line practically the whole time
 
@sbi I know, so that's why I gave him my consent before he could delete it without my consent
it's all about strategy
 
@TonyTheLion Always fighting the system.
 
3:14 PM
haha :P I'm a rebel :)
 
sbi
@Shog9 You know, the thing is that all those actions that got people so worked up are carried out by individuals, and it is individuals who feed their OCD by deleting messages. I am not criticizing a website, I am criticizing the people who decide how it's run.
 
@jalf Your comments to Benjol were probably the best (well, some of those might have been to me; hard to follow once you're posting half a dozen comments at a go). I would strongly recommend editing your answer (or posting a new one) to reflect this more nuanced opinion (you had a reasonable comment on the blog too).
 
If you say A, I shall say the opposite, if you say B I shall say the opposite, just for good rebellious measures :P
 
@Shog9 yeah, I will try to do so when I have time. (and yeah, I meant the oens following Benjol's comment. You're right, most of them were intended for you)
 
hey
 
sbi
3:15 PM
@DeadMG No, it's not. It's just "certain individuals".
 
Anyone using astyle? How to force it to insert space between #include and <>, and between vector<T> and foo (I'm trying to automate fixing SO posts somewhat, because people couldn't format code properly if their life depended on it).
 
why do I feel like I'm missing some new meta drama?
 
but that falls back to the usual problem, that I don't really want to invest too much time on Meta
 
@DeadMG Don't worry, it's same old stuff.
 
@DeadMG believe me, that's the one kind of drama you can miss
and this is not a dramatic drama, so defo not worth your braincells
 
3:16 PM
not a dramatic drama, lol
 
Meta bad, mods bad, we're the resistance, et cetera.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion If you are a rebel, then you are one of a kind. Of the if you dislike my sayings, feel free to delete them kind. :)
 
@sbi I know, isn't it great to be different ?
 
@sbi Which is why I try to encourage folks to focus on the problem, with specific examples when possible. This deletion / inclusion thing has been raging on SO, UV and MSO since almost the beginning, swinging back and forth over time - coming in and implying that the folks who've been fighting on "your side" for years are part of some shady group of deletionists just pours gas on the flames.
 
Anyway, my compile has finished so back to MFC land, I just wanted to pop by, clear things up, apologise for any hard feelings I may have caused, assure you that I am calmer, draw a line under things etc. And if I can help with dealing with meta, I'll probably be in the assembly.
 
3:17 PM
Now, should I go to the silly English class, or not.
 
Deleting the Lounge<C++> would only lead to the birth of the Lounge<C++>++ anyways
 
@Ninefingers MFC? Now we understand y u so grumpy :P
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion "Here are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others, too."
 
@sbi lol :P
 
Principles for sale, only 99.99$ each. Bulk discounts!
 
3:18 PM
@sbi so are you trying to say that what I was doing was wrong?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion You worry too much, pal.
You're a rebel, remember? You do what you think is best, no matter what we think.
 
Oh wait, USD is crappy cheap these days. Make that 99.99€.
 
@sbi I do, this is a fact
 
sbi
@Shog9 I am not sure at which point I gave the impression I consider you part of any shady group, or even that I consider the deletionists a shady group.
@rubenvb The problem is, it would also lead to a lot of people being so frustrated that they'd turn their back on SO.
 
@sbi Oh, I'm not talking about myself - I'm both a proud deletionist and a member of many shady groups. But, y'know, I try to stand up for the other folks too.
 
3:22 PM
Are we a shady group? Do I get free trenchcoat and glasses?
2
 
@CatPlusPlus 99.99€
 
@CatPlusPlus we're shady for sure :P
have you looked at us lot lately?
 
@Shog9 well, my beef is simply that it's inherently an unfair battle, however long it has raged, because it is fought only by a well-defined subset of those affected by it. And that subset has inherent biases and preferences which do not reflect the community as a whole. :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh my... that's just grates on me... I assume though that Portugal write euro in this way
 
so if I sold my currently bought currencies in my practice trading account I would loose 183 USD right then and there
 
3:25 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Stop stealing my business practices! I'll sue you for industrial espionage.
 
meh sucks
 
@thecoshman That's the only true way of writing euro amounts. GTFO if you disagree. But Portuguese form would be 99,99€ (note the comma)
 
EURO sign should be before the number
it's fugly otherwise
 
Nope.
 
@TonyTheLion Shut up.
 
3:25 PM
and makes my eyes hurt
@RMartinhoFernandes NO
 
0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€ 0€.
 
€1,200.66
 
Go get yourself a government.
 
@thecoshman yes
@CatPlusPlus meh
 
anyway, I'm heading home. Have fun all
 
3:26 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Kind of late to the party, are you?
 
@TonyTheLion was half tempted to change my post to something like "@tony do you suck?"
 
Also we use comma as decimal separator, too.
 
bya @jalf
 
3:26 PM
@StackedCrooked Oh, damn. Stupid Belgian politicians had to ruin my jokes.
 
@thecoshman no I don't suck, fyi
 
@tony :P
 
but if I could find a female to suck, I wouldn't say no :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I agree with the stupid belgian politicians part.
 
There it is.
 
3:28 PM
Belgian politicians are suck
 
They loose votes?
 
@TonyTheLion > politicians are suck
ftfy
 
oh yea
good fix
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Everyone does that for a while after they've watched too much BSG
 
I just remember how I still haven't finished binging Irregular Webcomic!. Now my already non-existing productivity will be nil for days.
 
@TonyTheLion We've already noticed, repeatedly
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Play DF in the meantime.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, I suppose. I also assume that "what the frak" was a common reaction to the finale.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes why did you have to mention yet another productivity killing website
 
3:35 PM
@TonyTheLion Because I won't go down alone!
 
@CheersandhthAlf hey thanks, but i'm googleing since yesterday
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Well, according to @Ninefingers certain individuals here definitely are. :)
 
IMO, someone needs to deal with those terrorists
 
@RMartinhoFernandes damn you :P
 
@sbi I'm sure he didn't mean me, I'm fluffy and cute.
 
sbi
3:38 PM
@Shog9 Well, in that case: I am not sure at which point I gave the impression I consider anyone on meta part of a "shady group".
Yeah, of course. You're a puss to boot, @Cat.
 
^ the first i found. i am sure there are more. because i remember that it was better.
 
@CheersandhthAlf but all i can find are algortihms with some restrictions (perpendicular/colinear segments). event brute force would be ok, as long as i definately can prevent intersections in any case. this is to be used within a interactive appliaction to select planar polygonal areas. most cases woud be around 5-10 segments...
 
sbi
@Imm0 Maybe you'd find more if you had had some sleep in between? :)
 
TIL @CatPlusPlus is fluffy and cute
 
@CheersandhthAlf i found a lot, and i do have enough sleep inbetween ;) e.g. cs.princeton.edu/~rs/AlgsDS07/16Geometric.pdf
 
3:41 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Must wear shades and a trenchcoat and refer to self as a "Shady". [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
2
 
hahaha
 
He steals my joke, and gets a star. Typical.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion As much so as a katana sword.
 
the power of the Room Topic, bitch! :P
 
lol
@CatPlusPlus that was me :(
 
sbi
3:43 PM
@TonyTheLion Uh oh. Now you'll learn about "fluffy and cute"...
 
@CheersandhthAlf and i guess this one is quite nifty, but might be a bit overkill aswell softsurfer.com/Archive/algorithm_0108/…
 
sbi
@DeadMG He's a @Cat. Among felines, those are called "pussy". Bitches are only among your dog relatives.
 
> Hmm, I also didn't realize that you essentially can't use inheritence. The committee dropped the ball on standard layout types then -- it's of no more use than the old POD definition. Here's to another 10 years coding standards non-compliant structures. :( – edA-qa mort-ora-y 1 min ago
What's so important about mixing POD types and inheritance?
 
fuck it, I can't be arsed. Will worry about it tomorrow
 
3:49 PM
@Imm0 heh, i was about to say it's nice to see pascal again, but it was the pseudo code (not pascal code!) that tricketh me
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Non-intrusively extend possibly third-party PODs?
 
Hmm, I see.
 
I think I should get out of this job whilst I still stand to get a decent reference
 
@LucDanton you just put it as first member and do reinterpret_cast. that's explicitly supported by the std.
 
It's also ugly.
 
3:51 PM
@thecoshman how about moving that to bin b4 ur employer reads it?
 
@CheersandhthAlf meh
what's done is done
 
I just saved your ass.
Now gimme the moneyz.
 
@CheersandhthAlf Playing devil's advocate. Also why not just pass the first member outright?
 
erm... not sure what just happened :S
 
Someone, somewhere, had a baby.
 
3:54 PM
This is a story about four people: Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it.
Everybody was sure Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody
wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when actually Nobody asked Anybody.
 
"edA-qa mort-ora-y"?
 
@CheersandhthAlf What abou it?
 
what does that mean?
 
It's his name: Edaqa Mortoray.
 
oh
i tried rot13, no luck
@Imm0 i'm stealing that for fb... :-)
 
Xeo
4:02 PM
0
Q: Is there a standard 'int class' in c++?

ValmondIs there a (more or less at least) standard int class for c++? If not so, is it planned for say C++13 and if not so, is there any special reasons? OOP design would benefit from it I guess, like for example it would be nice to have an assignment operator in a custom class that returns an int: i...

I want to tell that guy to go back to Java...
 
C++13, lol
 
Yeah, that's the funniest bit.
Also geez, so many answers in a minute.
 
I'm still trying to understand the question.
 
He wants boxed integers.
I bothered to make a complete example, and do I get upboats? Noo.
 
Are you begging?
 
4:05 PM
Me? Never.
 
FWIW, I like @DeadMG's short and to the point STFU answer.
 
Yeah, I'm wondering how long till it gets downvoted.
 
@CatPlusPlus Also, Mike's answer is a lot like yours.
 
it answers the question
there will never be one because there's no benefit to having one
 
Anybody going to listen to this?
 
4:07 PM
@DeadMG I've used named boxed ints for some named parameters.
 
Stack Exchange podcast #32 is all about the recent "deleted question" hubbub http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/03/se-podcast-32-jarrod-dixon-and-josh-heyer/
 
@RMartinhoFernandes True. But that's more "C++ needs named parameters", not "C++ needs a boxed int".
 
Granted, one standard boxed int would not help me in the least, as I do need types with particular names.
@DeadMG Yes.
 
sbi
"anyone could read this information in 3 minutes, but let's make it a 48 minute audio file" -- podcasts
 
@sbi Precisely the reason why I listen to almost no podcasts
Although I always wanted to try putting podcasts on my iPod for listening to during bus rides where I’m too tired to read
 
4:13 PM
@sbi AFAIK they post transcripts of the SE podcasts, so you can pick the format you like better.
 
> StayFocusd increases your productivity by limiting the amount of time that you can spend on time-wasting websites.
 
How does that even work?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually the link in Joel's tweet does seem to link to a transcript. I am currently reading this, but it's much harder to get information out of a few guys discussing things than by reading a well-prepared text.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm pretty sure if I had that installed I'd just disable it at the first opportunity, rendering it worthless.
 
> If this option is selected, you will be required to complete a difficult -- but not impossible -- challenge before you are allowed to change any settings. This makes it inconvenient for you to change settings, therefore reducing the chances that you'll cheat.
 
4:16 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes The one that I did find useful a while back just accounted for my time rather than actually blocking anything
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd just kill it at source. I take my time-wasting seriously.
 
Yeah, uninstalling extensions in Chrome is too easy for this to work.
 
Xeo
I feel like nobody really touched the design question of such a conversion, so meh.
 
Short of effectively being a virus, there's nothing you can do to stop me from reading TVTropes.
 
4:18 PM
@KonradRudolph the conclusion is to make sure people don't get to mad over reputation loss due to deletions, by keeping a sort "earned" total rep. to me that's utterly ridiculous: i could not care less about that. i think it is symptomatic that nobody in that session mentions quality or the idea of providing information to people, but only about keeping up appearances for the fake money (rep points) of SO.
 
@Xeo The design is bound to be crap, so why bother.
 
Xeo
Well, maybe we can reeducate him. There's always hope.
 
@CheersandhthAlf Well, that’s a missed opportunity. I’ve always thought that deleting so many questions is just really stupid, and doesn’t serve a purpose other than to uphold some set of rules arbitrarily …
 
Some extensions are just silly.
> Love O'Clock — Celebrate your love! Displays how long you have been together with your loved one. Plus soft anniversary reminders
 
If a prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it. See also * * * The fifth pillar of : "Wikipedia does not have firm rules." * zh-yue:Wikipedia:唔好理所有規則
 
4:20 PM
> 13,487 users
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'd ignore this rule.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Unfortunately, this rule is explicitly prohibited on SE :(
 
> WikiLawyering doesn't work. Loopholes and technicalities do not exist on the Wiki. Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy; nor moot court, nor nomic, nor Mao.
SE should be like this.
Hell, the whole world should be like this.
Nomic is a fun game, btw.
 
@CheersandhthAlf sadly, people seem to only play for points
any ways, home time for me
 
4:42 PM
hey, can static methods access their class's private variables in any way?
 
@IntermediateHacker it's like "can one object access private members of another"
sure, they can
 
Good morning all. I have something that I'd like your assistance on, if you don't mind (this is not troll bait, I assure you, it's a legitimate request that has nothing to do with meta, etc, etc, just Q&A).
 
oh, it works now. I was just doing something stupid.
 
10K users - The question this is marked as a dupe of:
Is the other question that it's marked as a dupe of too specific for that question to be a dupe?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What's the legitimate way to convert a duration to a count of seconds? std::duration_cast<std::chrono::seconds>(dur).count()?
 
4:46 PM
Yes.
 
@casperOne No. I think the dupe is fine in this case.
 
Or cast to std::chrono::duration<double, ratio<1>> if you don't want to truncate.
 
@DeadMG Much appreciated, thank you very much.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep, I need the fractional part.
Also apparently using the constructor i.e. std::chrono::seconds(dur).count() has good semantics too.
 
One thing I learned today: reinterpret_cast<> is extremely dangerous.
 
4:48 PM
No kidding.
 
I'm kinda scared of it now.
 
@IntermediateHacker That's good.
 
Here's another scary thing: C-style casts are even more powerful than reinterpret_casts.
 
@IntermediateHacker Also, usually unnecessary. Most uses can be modelled with a static_cast. Those that can’t … well, I avoid those.
 
It should have been scary_cast_that_eats_kids_for_breakfast.
4
 
4:49 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes lol.
 
I've been using reinterpret_cast to erase type from WinAPI handles lately.
 
I even have a bitwise_cast<> template in a header which relies on the union-cast trick to avoid reinterpret_casts … not that they are much safer
 
Union-cast is UB, isn't it?
 
yeah
reinterpret_cast is implementation, union is UB
 
@CatPlusPlus Yup. But platform-specific code usually is anyway
 
4:51 PM
memcpy isn't UB.
 
What, exhibiting UB?
Mine isn't.
char* is allowed to alias, so you can cast via char buffer, if you really really need it.
 
@CatPlusPlus For one thing, most code dealing with dlsym is. Same for Windows and the Window proc parameters
@CatPlusPlus But it just occurs to me that the union cast trick is really unnecessary once you alias via char*, right?
 
@KonradRudolph Implementation-defined is not the same as UB.
 
@KonradRudolph The cast style recommended by the Posix docs for dlsym ends up as a reinterpret_cast in C++, so implementation-defined.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I am aware of that
 
4:53 PM
@LucDanton That fugly thing.
 
@LucDanton Yes but a lot of software doesn’t use it … and as far as I know when the interface was designed, neither did the implementers … otherwise they might have designed this interface properly to begin with
 
damn, another runtime error. another wrong cast. Maybe depending on RTTI itself is dangerous.
 
@KonradRudolph How could they design it properly on C?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's honestly not that far away from memcpy-ing bits around tbh.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, but it looks ugly as heck.
 
Using void** as a super big hammer is really ugly.
@KonradRudolph Ah, I see, they could return void(*)().
That reminds me my dlsym sugar can't deal with non-function types.
 
union { void* object; void(*function)(); }; would have been acceptable I think.
 
@CheersandhthAlf alright, i figured it out .. if you are interested in the nifty solution to prevent the intersection of linesegments (in all cases) check this out... softsurfer.com/Archive/algorithm_0104/… [im in cg for a few years now and never ever heard about the perp-product :) ]
 

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