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1:02 PM
don't you hate it when you have to solve a problem, but you don't really have a clue where to start
 
Xeo
Hm. Instead of sleeping another hour, I just noticed that I read my book for nearly 3h ...
 
@ScottW well that's a given, but given that, I still don't where to start
 
At the beginning.
 
@Xeo what book?
@CatPlusPlus har har
 
Hmm.
Does std::ostream cache a file size/position anyhow?
I am writing using std::ostream into a file from two processes.\
 
1:05 PM
no
a position, maybe
 
size, no
 
I do locking using fcntl().
Each of the processes does out.seekp (0, std::ios_base::end) before each write.
But the file is always the same size!
 
you probably forgot to flush()
 
Nope.
 
1:07 PM
@チョコレート人 yes
 
    if (useLockFile)
    {
        try
        {
            guard.attach_and_lock (*lockFile);
        }
        catch (std::runtime_error const &)
        {
            return;
        }

        out.seekp (0, std::ios_base::end);
    }

    layout->formatAndAppend(out, event);

    if(immediateFlush || useLockFile)
        out.flush();
 
then use an API actually designed for the job?
 
ostream is not designed to deal with locked file I/O from multiple processes
 
C11 supports that.
 
1:08 PM
The ostream itself is not locked. Lock file is another file.
 
I don't really see how that changes my fundamental point
 
Ok.
 
Why do you open the file for writing before acquiring the lock?
 
@ScottW it was
 
why do streams have such strange function names? like tellp, seekp etc?
 
1:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus: I do not understand the question? Where do I open the file?
 
@TonyTheLion They're Unix/C derivates.
 
Tell put, seek put.
 
the SGI STL derivates have much more reasonable names
 
that's one reason why I will never, ever voluntarily program POSIX
 
sbi
1:10 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes LOL!
 
their function names are fucking atrocious
 
yea I know Unix stuff tends to have cryptic names
 
seekp/tellp is good. The streambuf names are hideous.
 
@sbi Heresy!
 
rdbuf is also kinda scary
 
1:10 PM
the Windows API has good names, mostly
 
I twitched the first time I saw it
 
ReadFile, CreateMutex, GetFileSize
 
@DeadMG it's full of fugly macro's and constants though
 
true
 
and fucking CamelCase
 
1:11 PM
but that's also true of any C API
 
@TonyTheLion creat.
 
eh, I've nothing against CamelCase
 
Xeo
Dances on the Snow is a science fiction novel written by the Russian sci-fi and fantasy writer Sergey Lukyanenko. Despite the fact that the novel was written later, it is considered to be an indirect prequel to the novel Genome. It takes place in the same fictional universe as Genome, about one hundred years prior to the novel's time frame. Unlike Genome, Dances on the Snow hardly deals with the issue of genetic engineering but does touch on the issue of cloning. However, the biggest focus is the problems of free choice and mind control. Plot Tikkirey "Tiki" Frost lives on the planet ...
 
SHGetFolderPathAndSubDirA
 
Xeo
1:11 PM
That took quite some time to find the english name..
 
@ScottW the biggest mistake that MS ever made
 
Right. /etc is awesome.
 
the registry is blasphemy upon the IT industry
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The Orgando Nation [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
EnumCalendarInfoExEx
 
1:12 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes oh yea and the unix filesystem
 
ExEx makes me laugh every time :P
 
I can never remember what dir is for what
 
@CatPlusPlus ExEx? Please tell me that's a typo.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nope. It's the third version of the function.
 
1:12 PM
I refuse to believe it. I'll shoot anyone that proves it.
 
There's EnumCalendarInfo, EnumCalendarInfoEx and EnumCalendarInfoExEx.
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion When reading /dev, I always think of "development" but it's "devices" :(
 
@TonyTheLion ls is so much more mnemonic
 
1:13 PM
isn't there some I/O function that has a really dodgy offensive name?
 
@TonyTheLion BANG!
@CatPlusPlus BANG!
 
@Xeo isn't that a special directory that's not really a directory but something else?
@DeadMG sex?
 
@Xeo Everyone knows "development" is on ~/dev.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Now you have two zombies to deal with.
I have C:\dev for everything!
 
it's a function named s and was extendend, so now it's sex
 
1:14 PM
@TonyTheLion What's "really a directory"?
 
There's nothing special about /dev itself.
It's populated with special files.
 
@ScottW they are ok, but no cookie crisp
 
@CatPlusPlus yes that devices are special files
which I find strange
what's the thinking behind that?
 
@Xeo interesting book? does it worth reading?
 
Xeo
On unix, everything is a file
@Abyx IMO, yes, it definitly is.
 
1:15 PM
It's UNIX philosophy of "everything is a file, unless it happens not to be, but we don't talk about that".
 
On Windows everything is a window.
 
the interface to the devices are files.
 
@StackedCrooked Files aren't windows.
 
@Xeo on Windows, everything is kernel object
 
Xeo
I discovered Sergej Lukjanenko with the Night Watch trilogy, and read a number of other books from him and I find them really good.
 
1:16 PM
Can someone explain to me the current room tagline?
 
There's nothing weird about that, it's a shell-friendly interface
 
On Windows, everything is an object. Therefore, it's not Java.
 
@ScottW you have shockingly poor taste in children's cereal. perhaps Golden nuggets are more your thing?
 
@Xeo Processes are not files.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes i think it can be googled?
 
1:18 PM
@CheersandhthAlf Oh, it's a lame pun.
 
@ScottW Never tried them, what are they like?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes But access to info on them is :P
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The Oregano Nation [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@RMartinhoFernandes We weren't going to talk about that!
 
@Xeo What info?
 
Xeo
1:18 PM
/proc?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The Origami Nation [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
@ScottW mmmm.... sounds good.... and possibly a bit like lion bar cereal, which was good
 
Xeo
@CheersandhthAlf I think I said this recently, but "Fuck you USA"
 
@Xeo you may have, but lets just make sure "Fuck you USA"
 
1:21 PM
@Xeo That Verisign shit was ridiculous!
USA are the fucking terrorists now
 
-3
Q: use of object class instances and (void*)

sparkling_sparkCan someone point out the use of object class ? i mean using instances of object class did it allocate all the memory gone for all sub classes ? i.e int float etc. etc I wish to know some of the cases where we must be in need of Object and some cases where we be in need of void pointer ,thanks

 
"You can't flout US law by not being in the US"? Actually, I think you fucking well can.
 
erm... I answered it :S
 
@DeadMG Isn't that the whole point of not being in the US?
 
yes
 
1:23 PM
@DeadMG apparently not any more :P
 
but apparently, the US doesn't care and will still steal your website
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Indeed.
A slap in the face to the internet community.
 
and what does ICANN do about it? "Oh, it's not our problem."
gee, it fucking well is your problem, ICANN
 
@Xeo Internet community? What about the brain-still-turned-on community?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes That's a strict subgroup
 
1:24 PM
@DeadMG You can always make your own root. Let's say .fuckyouusa.
 
Don't you remember, here was a man who was banned for a long time, he wrote a lot of insane stuff against "americans". Now you write nearly same things. I wonder is here a difference ?)
 
@Xeo What? You think everyone in the Internet still has their brain turned on? You haven't been around.
 
@Abyx No, I don't, and if I were banned, then it would merely demonstrate that being here has even less value to me than I had previously imagined
 
@RMartinhoFernandes wait.... would that be really possible?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes I meant it the other way around
 
1:26 PM
@thecoshman ICANN now sells roots. Yes, they're all about the money now.
 
to be honest, I don't entirely blame them
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ah, that's sort of what I thought, you can't just set up your own root DNS
 
@Xeo So, everyone not on the Internet has their brain turned off?
 
some roots like .xxx have been waiting to happen forever
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Can we just concentrate on the internet part? :P
 
1:27 PM
@Xeo every one off the internet is turned on?
 
@Xeo But you said it was a strict subgroup!
 
but I do most certainly blame them for this
 
Xeo
You're confusing me.
 
@thecoshman I'm pretty sure there are people on the Internet that are turned on. See also: porn
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes See also: Tony
 
1:28 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes if everyone not in a group shares a common attribute does not exclude those in said group also sharing the same attribute
 
or something like that :P
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Xeo But you said it was a strict subgroup!
Being a strict subgroup does indeed exclude those things.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes is strict some sort of mathematical term?
 
No, it's English.
 
1:29 PM
well, lets put it this way, if class foo has a parameter of type int, can any other class have a int?
 
If the group of Xs is a strict subgroup of the group of Ys, then there are no Xs that are not Ys.
 
then yes, 'strict subgroup' is a technical term
 
Meh, time for boring networking class.
 
I'm trying, futilely, to find a convincing case where deriving (mutable) Integer from Rational can do real harm. I can't find the harm in having an Integer with value 3/7, for example.
 
just because all x are a y does not mean that all y are an x

but then you threw in this 'strict subgroup' term ¬_¬
 
1:32 PM
Today, router configuration, because that's such a fascinating thing to do.
 
@thecoshman I didn't! @Xeo did!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you @Xeo, it's all the same :P
 
I wonder if I could play DF while doing it.
Hm.
 
@CheersandhthAlf because is not an Integer...
 
@CheersandhthAlf How about Integer i = (3/7); int array[5]; array[i] = 2;// wtf now
 
1:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus routers got to rout
 
3/7 is not an integer.
 
@DeadMG hm...
 
ok I still haven't decided whether I want to visit Alaska or NYC when I go to the USA next
any of you been to either place or can make a recommendation?
 
Rationals are a superset of integers, not vice versa.
 
@TonyTheLion why not Zoidberg?
 
1:34 PM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus do you mean subset?
 
I've never been to USA next.
 
@thecoshman No, I mean superset.
 
@CatPlusPlus yes, that's like Animals are a superset of Dogs. that's what I'm writing about for my blog. actually about LSP and C++ construction, but starting with LSP
 
1:35 PM
mutable inheritance doesn't work either way around, though
 
Integers are rationals, not all rationals are integers.
 
A superset is a set from Krypton.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes wonder who is arch enemy would be
 
Set Luthor, obviously.
 
1:36 PM
Captain Continuum.
 
reality?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I see what you did there... it was not superman vs man luther
 
@thecoshman Well, I didn't think "Parse" would work well as a first name. "Set", however, does work nicely.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I kind of wish I was grown up enough to not want to say 'your mum works nicely'
 
@thecoshman I just give in to the temptation. It comes up now and then, usually when I'm tired or distracted, and there's no point resisting it.
 
1:41 PM
@thecoshman Don't worry, your momma is grown up enough :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's a mum, not a mom.
 
Is it mummy or mommy?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that she is. Unlike yours, mine was of respectable age when she gave birth to me
 
not everyone lives in the US, either
 
1:42 PM
@StackedCrooked In your case, both.
 
@DeadMG Neither does everyone out of the US.
 
and you all speak ENGLISH >:¬¦(
 
English is the language of the English, and that's how it should be.
 
That might have been over the top.
 
1:43 PM
If she would have been dead perhaps :)
 
@StackedCrooked false
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, that's what I was a bit afraid of.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes :D
 
Luckily she's alive.
 
1:44 PM
@DeadMG Living out of the US doesn't let you flout US spelling.
 
And not a mummy.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes RAAEEEGGGEEEE
 
@RMartinhoFernandes awe shit, he's got us here
does any one have a link to that article about the US imposing US law on the website?
 
1:47 PM
damn him... I posted that link as well... and he get's the stars ¬_¬
 
ah, meta has been so quiet in the last few hours. Haven't been pinged at all
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/9565003/… is it me... or did I not answer that question?
I know I have posted that question recently, I am just shocked that it was closed for what it was closed for
 
@thecoshman I couldn't make sense of the question.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ah, your just a robot :P
 
Xeo
Awesome, microsoft doesn't trust its own emails
 
1:52 PM
It just seems stupid that after I had answered it and it was accepted, it got closed as too poor to be able to be answered. HELLO!!!
 
Xeo
Confirmation email for MS Office 2010 test version, hotmail says the content looks highly suspicious :)
 
@thecoshman I agree with Scott. You should have edited it to make it comprehensible.
@Xeo Maybe you're actually being phished?
 
@TonyTheLion I had a laughing fit
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Nah, I loaded MS Office from the official website yesterday.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Surely it is better to answer a question...
and I have edited now, just waiting for queue ¬_¬
 
1:56 PM
@thecoshman ... and make it comprehensible.
It's not mutually exclusive.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well I suppose
:P
 
They're playing on UFOs?
 
it's twinkly :D
<claps hands as well>
myspace! how old is this video :P
huh... Aug 2009...
 
2:13 PM
Myspace still exists.
 
yeah, but I didn't think people still used it :P
I thought every one used facebook to save them selves the effort of making a website
 
> In a change from past practice, the committee is processing multiple library work items in parallel, and any resulting domain specific technical reports will ship when ready rather than waiting for completion of single large technical report.
This sounds awesome!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes in reference to what?
 
No need to wait until 2017 to get the goods.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but hellish for implementors, no single namespace like tr1 would be possible, right?
 
2:26 PM
@rubenvb Why hellish? Implementors have been rolling out C++11 features long before it was completed.
This is no different for implementors.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but they had the drafts or TR1 to work with.
 
@rubenvb And now they will have the drafts and TR-Xs to work with.
It just means that they will publish various smaller TRs as they get done, instead of one big thing in the end.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes 'agile'
 
hmmm... won't these new drafts change more rapidly and less coherently?
 
Yeah, I guess you can say that.
@rubenvb "any resulting domain specific technical reports will ship when ready"
Unless you have a different definition of "ready" I see no issue.
 
2:29 PM
ok, ok. gotcha
 
Basically, as soon as Boost.Filesystem is sculpted out into standard form, TR-filesystem is published. It needs not wait for the Bignum proposal.
 
Isn't boost still it's own independent library?
 
Yes, but Boost.Filesystem is being adopted into the standard. (VC11 already ships it)
 
Boost should probably be renamed C++Beta
 
just like boost.thread, type traits etc...
 
2:33 PM
@thecoshman But there's lot of stuff in Boost that will never make it. Spirit, for example.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but that's an old incompatible version
 
@RMartinhoFernandes hopefully, at least
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what does Spirit do?
 
@thecoshman fuck with your brain
It's a parser generator based on TMP
 
@rubenvb Yeah, it's based on the TR2 proposal, which was based on Filesystem v2.
 
2:34 PM
spirit is template wankery
 
In other words, extremely impressive, but not very useful in most cases
 
@jalf I think this is a better explanation :P
 
The current proposal is based on v3 though.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes tr2 never existed, so I don't really see why they grabbed a random proposal to write a library component for... :(
 
@rubenvb Work on TR2 was suspended.
Filesystem was already accepted at the time.
Some of the current proposals are lifted from the existing work on TR2.
 
2:36 PM
yeah, promotion to 'trainee engineer'
¬_¬ there's job satisfaction for you
 
Still, my point stands. They should've fixed initializer lists in the compiler instead of messing with a changing proposal.
 
@thecoshman You got promoted?
@rubenvb Actually, it was pretty much frozen.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes technically, I actually got hired by the company I work for
 
It only started changing after they decided to ship it.
 
in what seems to be some sort of tax scam, I was technically a contract worker for the last 6 months
and so have now been hired full time, but again, 6 month probation ¬_¬
 
2:38 PM
lol
 
Lo_|
 
@FredOverflow ಠ_ಠ
 
"Runtime-sized arrays with automatic storage duration" Anyone else reads this as std::vector?
 
We discussed this a couple of days ago.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes indeed
 
2:40 PM
Runtime-sized arrays with automatic storage duration cause less heap activity.
 
@FredOverflow But I wasn't around!
 
And they are perfect for embedded systems.
 
@FredOverflow Higher risk for stack overflow I think.
 
sure
But we all love "stack overflow", don't we? ;-)
 
not particularly, no
 
2:42 PM
Then what are you doing in the stack overflow chat?
 
It's more like a necessary evil.
 
chatting to other people
 
@FredOverflow That's "runtime-sized arrays with automatic storage duration not allocated on the heap". :P
 
"Automatic storage duration" already implies "no heap", doesn't it?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes No, this time, it's the array itself that has automatic storage duration with a runtime size. In std::vector's case, the underlying array itself has dynamic storage duration all the time
 
2:45 PM
Hmm, they propose them to be second-class citizens. Me not like.
 
just write an stack based allocator and use vector
 
@rubenvb And how can you write such an allocator portably?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes doesn't Howard have such a beast in libc++?
 
you can't write it portably
 
Xeo
@rubenvb No, not in this sense
He has a stateful prepared buffer allocator
 
2:48 PM
apart from the fact that Standard C++ does not possess a function that can dynamically allocate from the stack, you also cannot write it with alloca() because it would always have to come from the caller
so you would always have to manage your own memory
 
Xeo
But a real stack allocator? No. Only alloca is able to get extra stack space, and you can't return that from anywhere.
 
the only way to write such a class would be to relax the restrictions on default arguments
something like stack_array(int i, void* memory = alloca(i * sizeof(T))) { ... }
 
That would require more ordering in argument evaluation.
 
Xeo
Which would get you about... nothing.
 
alloca cannot be called after i gets pushed.
Damn, I'm confusing "before" with "after".
 
Xeo
2:50 PM
cdecl convention is backwards, aka memory would be pushed first.
 
well, OK, so you'd have to have a slightly different calling convention
it wouldn't be The End Of The World
 
Xeo
Or you just provide language support
 
the code would have to be inlined effectively anyway
 
Xeo
It's not that hard.
 
@Xeo But that's not in the standard yet.
 
Xeo
2:51 PM
Yeah, I know
 
IMO, the default arguments- and standardizing alloca- is a better idea
better to provide library writers with the tools they need than to specify a language feature that fills one specific niche
 

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