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00:00
vOv you're point?
I never understood anything about electricity.
@Morwenn it's the shits
@thecoshman learn grammar before trying to explain highschool physics to me
HTH
@BartekBanachewicz indeed, you're pointless
go away already
shouldn't you be on IRC
00:01
stop asking for help if you aren't willing to take it
Wow, the argument level is through the roof tonight.
Back to Daria.
@Morwenn the cartoon?
Yep.
@thecoshman perhaps if you've stopped to actually understand my question I'd have more respect for the answer
@Morwenn lol, I suddenly recognise you :P
00:01
but since you choose to treat me as a 10 year old just because you misunderstood me then fuck you
@Morwenn Bartek is the one that said you can't get 1TA from a 14V differential
@thecoshman Wat .___.
@BartekBanachewicz "can you use a stepper motor as a generator?" "yes, but it's not ideal"
@jaggedSpire I've no idea what that means.
@Morwenn it's stupidness.
00:03
@thecoshman and then you've failed to say why
it's handwaving and "they weren't built for this"
@BartekBanachewicz because they cost more than a regular motor vOv
@thecoshman to which I've promptly replied that your market analysis is way off
but you're stuck in your preconceived beliefs so much you don't even listen or read
well sure, if you think they are cheaper, then go for it
see
I don't "think" anything. I've been conducting research for the last two hours
@Morwenn it gets easier to understand once you understand that volts are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space
5
00:05
and my question when I went here was very precise
@AlexM. You mean burritos?
I also stated that I think, as in openly and willing do not know for sure, that they would have a lower voltage at higher current as the wiring is in parallel
@Morwenn basically ye
@BartekBanachewicz ok, you want the bare bones answer? "Yes"
@thecoshman there are different wirings, and I haven't seen any comparable non-steppers producing (utilizing) this high voltage
00:06
@AlexM. I think I like my sorting algorithms more. At least they are understandable sometimes.
so my observations suggest that you're thinking completely backwards
@BartekBanachewicz Keep in mind that the voltage these motors are built to operate at does not mean they will generate that voltage
@thecoshman the youtube video I've sent you showed about 60% of rated voltage at rated RPMs
which would be perfectly fine given I need a low-RPM solution
also keep in mind that steppers tend to stick to DC whilst high power 'standard' motores tend towards multiphase AC
A = Amps = current. 1 TA is...completely nuts. V is Volts = difference between source and sink of electrons. 14V is pretty normal, around a car battery. 9V is a more ordinary battery, it's just those have lower current output. Omega = Ohms = resistance of the circuit. Volts divided by Ohms is Amps, so if you have low enough Ohms you get insane amps.

However, batteries (and other voltage or current sources, which are what are used to drive circuits) commonly have an internal resistance to them, and since that internal resistance is part of the circuit too, it does limit the amps you can get
00:08
AC motors are essentially useless as generators
@jaggedSpire TA like tera-amps?
@Morwenn yep. SI prefixes, yo.
@Morwenn tera-ampere
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz how come?
One Amp is actually pretty big, too.
00:10
oh come one now spotify
@jaggedSpire it's a killer
for perspective: "Each lightning stroke typically lasts only last 10 to 50 microseconds (0.000050 sec) and carries hundreds to thousands of amps."
not hundreds of thousands, hundreds to thousands
@jaggedSpire that's not a very good perspective
@thecoshman it's a fun one though!
@Ell for my purposes
@jaggedSpire bbq
00:11
@jaggedSpire you'd need 1.4*10^-11 Ohms. As an exercise, calculate the thickness of a copper cable to get that
for better perspective: .1 to .2 Amps can kill a human
@Ell the way they take AC power and drive a motor mean that spinning the motors doesn't really help generate power that well. A DC motor is much simpler, spin the motor, and DC power comes back out
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz oh kk. You could rectify it mind
@BartekBanachewicz how about instead I get a very nice cooler, that can chill things to below -150 degrees Celcius.
17 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@thecoshman unless you're talking superconductors, regular materials have too high resistance for that
00:13
@BartekBanachewicz the main point, is you start with say 10A 14V and want to step that up to 1TA, you just have to accept that you end up with a tiny voltage
@BartekBanachewicz ah, well. I clearly should have read higher
@thecoshman this is high school knowledge, again
what's less obvious are the power losses
you can't change the voltage for free
which would maybe matter less if I haven't mentioned it's a wind turbine upfront, eh?
50 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@thecoshman this is high school knowledge, again
(except in america)
Ell
Ell
reactive components are pretty efficient though right
@thecoshman so, if it's so easy, will a gearbox be more efficient than a voltage stepper?
00:15
@jaggedSpire depends on the humidity ...
Ell
Ell
oh wait dc
@thecoshman actually I learned this in high school--that was a joke wasn't it
Ell
Ell
I keep fugetting
@BartekBanachewicz It's not all about diameter. It would need to be thick or for a really short distance.
@Morwenn how's your lib progressing?
00:15
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper probably why they gave a range
@JerryCoffin or very short time span
this is the one I am thinking about
@BartekBanachewicz depends on more than just that, of course
it's rated 65V
weighs about a kilo, has ball bearings
and is bipolar I suppose since it has 8 wires
Volts - that I've heard about; it's like the thing... something with electricity
Ell
Ell
00:17
man css has some weird rules
@AlexM. The most interesting things to add will either need C++17 and/or some TS. The only think I can do is adding more algorithms, improving the algorithms or writing more tests or benchmarks so it's becoming pretty uninteresting.
@BartekBanachewicz What voltage do you need? Are you talking about a generator or an alternator? A lot simpler to play with voltage/current if it's AC (but really efficient transformers aren't cheap either).
I crawl through the web for code to steal, but there isn't much to take as is.
@JerryCoffin more to the point, how much power does he need for it to be worthwhile
user1804599
> Race mixing is communism
user1804599
00:18
lol
5v to charge your phone isn't much use it can only produce a few pico amps at five volts
thinking is hard :-\
@JerryCoffin I am building a wind turbine. I started with a bicycle dynamo but I'm thinking about a better generator
and I'd also generally believe that mechanical conversion would be more efficient... sounds like things aren't moving fast enough for heat to be a real problem
@ScarletAmaranth You don't say.
00:20
it's a research project so I don't have any real constraints
@BartekBanachewicz how did you get to 14v being ideal?
@thecoshman it's just about right to charge 12V cells
and 12V is very common and very usable
@BartekBanachewicz What do you want to do with the output?
@BartekBanachewicz car batteries I presume... which you then plan to use an invertor on for ~normal~ power?
@BartekBanachewicz so is 5Vdc, or 240ac (is europe 240ac50hz? 60hz sounds more like it....)
@JerryCoffin if I can do it, charging 12V cells is a nice goal. If that proves too big, charging my phone would be nice.
00:22
@JerryCoffin nipples clamps
Also I'm thinking of moving out of templates the things that don't depend on template parameters (scary iterators style). It could hopefully reduce both the code bloat and compile times.
@BartekBanachewicz ... but what do you plan to do with these 12V batteries?
@thecoshman yeah that's essentially the best you can get from DYI
also, it's batteries
AFAIK there is nothing out there can give you a 12V cell
@thecoshman nothing... yet. It's a research prototype
first thought was to build a portable phone charging turbine
but portability is hard to get, so I want to make the first prototype be as simple as I can get
00:24
@BartekBanachewicz then why not aim for practical 5v, it's close to what you can already dump into lion cells that handle this sort of shallow cycle
well that 24V@3000 RPM thing could work
@BartekBanachewicz then buy a cheap DC motor, measure the output V
oh there are plenty of 27V as well
@BartekBanachewicz it's wind powered, it's a PITA
yeah, I'll buy the 27V@2600 I guess
00:26
wind power isn't going to give you a fixed rpm
@thecoshman I'm going to make a voltage controller as well vOv
but it's easier to do if you're only going one direction
so if I need 5V, but I can guarantee I'm always above 5 reasonably the circuit gets easier
to be fair, what do you have to hand that uses 12V compared to 5V
12V is old school bro
stop being greedy with all those volts
how far have you got so far, we have been hearing about your bike dynamo for like .... more than 2 days by now
@BartekBanachewicz What capacity of 12V batteries? For something like a NiMH battery, you typically limit charging to something like C/5 for the main part of the charge cycle, then drop to C/10 or C/12 when they get close to fully charged (~85-90%). You can charge at C/10 the whole time though. So let's say you were dealing with a 5 amp hour battery, then you'd want (at most) 1 amp @ 12 V, but need to limit that to ~500 ma when close to fully charged. Figure 15 watts, to allow for circuit losses.
@JerryCoffin iow, lion 5V is easier
00:29
@thecoshman every single thing that connects to car port
frankly I've no idea yet how much wattage can my propeller reasonably produce anyway
@BartekBanachewicz like phone chargers that step down to 5v :P
eh but even 5V is hard to get
what do you mean?
you can buy lion battery packs that charge over usb, they only 5v and will accept that as low as a few hundred mA
you're talk a few watts
I wish this thing was cheaper
@thecoshman I'd need to step up to those 5v with a shitty generator
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬ really now
if you get smart and do you're own charging circuitry, you'd probably get away with about 3.3v, then step up to 5v for the output USB
@BartekBanachewicz image not found
A boost converter (step-up converter) is a DC-to-DC power converter with an output voltage greater than its input voltage. It is a class of switched-mode power supply (SMPS) containing at least two semiconductors (a diode and a transistor) and at least one energy storage element, a capacitor, inductor, or the two in combination. Filters made of capacitors (sometimes in combination with inductors) are normally added to the output of the converter to reduce output voltage ripple. == OverviewEdit == Power for the boost converter can come from any suitable DC sources, such as batteries, solar panels...
I'm too lazy to edit
this was the photo anyway
okay, let's do this this way then
yeah, that's how most phones will use the low voltage lion cells to power the higher voltage electronics, it's not new
@jaggedSpire :3
have you even thought much about the blades for this generator, how do you know they are going to harness enough power to be worth it?
00:40
@Borgleader The name makes no sense.
@Morwenn vOv
gravity generators sound like a more realistic project
@thecoshman everyone uses that design and it seems to work well
you can count on gravity to be fairly constant
@BartekBanachewicz the particular blades you plan to use?
@thecoshman Not necessarily. Lower voltage often implies higher current. Power may be lower, but isn't necessarily (e.g., USB 3 supports up to 3A @ 5V, for 15 watts delivered, though older USB specs were much more limited).
> Litter only
@JerryCoffin only in that P=IV... generally speaking by lowering the voltage you could drive more current....
lol hotmail
That's going to trigger Bjarne.
@thecoshman ye
00:42
lion cells are easier to 'charge' as it takes a lower voltage to operate the shit
@BartekBanachewicz and what 'motors' are they using?
@tony now I am :P
@thecoshman only enough to unlock the cell door to put the lion inside.
@thecoshman 99V old tape drives
@thecoshman I thought a bit about that too. It apparently doesn't take very large blades to produce 15 watts though. ajdesigner.com/phpwindpower/…
@Borgleader "white horses"... what's that a euphemism for?
00:44
@BartekBanachewicz wtF?
@BartekBanachewicz iow, dc motors?
@Borgleader :3
@thecoshman that should be obvious =/
@thecoshman ye
00:45
@Borgleader no, please do translate to my savage language
so I need to do two things
1) rig up a boost circuit
2) make a better propeller mount
@Morwenn no he's not o_0
well 3) wire up properly
after that I can basically go out with this thing and test it
> riding: when a girl mounts a guy on top and bobs or rides up and down.
urban dictionary ^
@Borgleader oooh, cow girl
00:46
actually i can test it w/o the circuit, I just need a better mount
@Morwenn Looks like a chipmunk to me.
@JerryCoffin Impossible. I googled squirrel. How could it be wrong?
@BartekBanachewicz you do realise, appart from testing how well the wind part of this laughs at you, you can just spin the fan blades by hand
00:48
I would test it on an exercise bike instead of on a road/mountain bike outside, either that or you have to make sure your installation is sound and solid and wouldn't fall apart on a bumpy road
@Morwenn lol
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 are you fucking stupid? I'm busy getting drunk, I ain't got time for your videos
@thecoshman it's my video. Of my turbine. And clocks a total of 33 seconds.
@Morwenn oh, black corn, always so big
@BartekBanachewicz I have even less time for it
I was able to get a whopping 0.5VAC by spinning it with my hand
got 5V with a drill
00:50
I really doubt you will get wind to match a drill
hence the whole discussion
@Morwenn Theirs Ours not to wonder why. Ours but to do or die.
@thecoshman it was a small battery drill though
what sort of motor did you have hooked up?
@BartekBanachewicz it was still a few krpm, no?
@Morwenn had a fat butcher bird trying to swallow down a fat chuck of meat given to it outside the kitchen window this morning, it was funny but I wasn't quick enough to video tape it
00:51
I doubt it
either way, it'd be faster than the blade them selves are going to spin, it's just a question of can you gear it up enough
first question is whether I can actually mount it properly
@TelkittytheWebDeveloper How much fat?
gears would mean I'd need a separate axle and that complicates things a lot
@BartekBanachewicz is it willing?
00:52
@thecoshman Typical drill would max out around 1.2-1.5 Krpm.
using the axle of the dynamo is much simpler
Eh, whatever actually, I'm going to sleep.
@Morwenn nigh~t
By~e.
@BartekBanachewicz sounds bad to put the stress of the blades onto the motor shaft to me
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
hence the whole discussion
@Morwenn G'night.
industrial stepper motors are certainly durable enough for that
@BartekBanachewicz i've never heard of a wind turbine that had direct drive... like, no gearing AT ALL
Thanks :)
00:54
@thecoshman you haven't heard about many things in your life yet
@BartekBanachewicz well...
woah :O
@Borgleader concur'd
@BartekBanachewicz I've heard about everything in my life, you idiot. If I haven't heard it, it wasn't in my life.
@Borgleader thanks
@Borgleader it looks awesome
well time to venture forth.
I may return soon, or in around an hour
@jaggedSpire ttyl
@BartekBanachewicz oooh, well it's a done deal then
@Morwenn Are you sure that's fat not fluff? Looks like fluffs to me ...
Gah, finally home. Watched the hateful eight or whatever, pretty cool
00:57
@ElimGarak hi
crack open the drink
@thecoshman people get a couple hundred watts out of those
I din't try to spell 'open' as 'up' at all
@BartekBanachewicz those motors?
@thecoshman motors and PVC blades
my blades are only 40cm long, but that still could theoretically provide at least a couple dozen watts with a right generator
let's say it's 200W of electrical power it generates, at what ever VA, you should easily be able to convert it to 14V at like 10A
yep.
my point is that buying a proper generator would solve two issues at once for me

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