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12:00 AM
> People here are passionate about things here
 
@JerryCoffin In fairness a bit of this has been panic-triggered due to apparent "mass uprising". Both sides are likely unreasonably sensitive here. It would be nice if everyone were able to tread lightly, but apparently even mods make mistakes (and some loungers obviously, goes without saying)
 
@Jefery mm right this is too informal
 
It would be best if people magically forgot about their stigmata and just approached each other with fresh innocence. Barring that, I hope both lounge and mods can make an effort to not escalate things quite so soon.
 
@MadaraUchiha what happened anyways
i am unable to scroll up and read the transcript
 
@nick I agree with this, please summarize of nick
 
12:01 AM
oh man is this a starfest/drama hybrid?
 
we need provisions for the differently-abled
 
@jaggedSpire HI MUMBLE
pls
 
I missed something again?
 
@BartekBanachewicz : don't forget to have proof (mods can delete the content of which the link is pointing to )
 
@Nooble k
 
12:01 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Too many "here"
 
oh wow that's a lot of active users
 
@sehe I'm not asking for escalation--I'm asking for a guideline that I can read and attempt to follow. And when/if I do follow it, I can have a reasonable assurance that I won't be scapegoated because a moderator had a long day and isn't 1) able to actually act as a moderator, or 2) realize that under the circumstances he shouldn't be attempting to do so.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see what the point is. It seems to be ermagad we elected peeps and now some peeps don't want them. Or: now it turns out no one has the required experience. Well. Hello, this is why the world works like it does.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I would also mention Jerry's message which was removed
 
@JerryCoffin Oh. I didn't mean to suggest you did. Sorry if it came across like that.
 
12:02 AM
But I'm not sure who did that
 
I rather generically made my very own points, starting out in response to your observations.
@ScottW Wrong spelling
 
@sehe "We all elected peeps and here's a case that we might have actually made a pretty bad choice"
 
@ScottW flight went fine. :)
 
I agree with @sehe although the overall sentiment of the posts doesn't seem out of place for a meta "rant".
 
@daknøk Don\'t fall asleep now\nthat would be a waste of time
 
12:04 AM
@jaggedSpire YOU'RE NOT ON MUMBLE
 
@Nooble :3
 
No such thing as "out of place for a meta rant"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then what's the point? Emergency procedure obviously exist. And they can, obviously, not come from the community members
 
that's because I'm a soulless monster
 
@sehe Nothing a reelection can't correct. We could use a moderator that knows what's going on here.
 
12:04 AM
@jaggedSpire <3 <3
 
@GregorMcGregor :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz That won't happen
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's a logical contradiction
 
@sehe "obviously"? Community gives, community takes.
 
I'd like to collectively thank the guys on membel for making me over 20 mins late to work
 
12:05 AM
If the election has already failed, then elections don't fix it
@BartekBanachewicz Cough. ^
 
@GregorMcGregor sorry :(
 
is there something, an entity or somewhat above moderators ? These moderators got trained by ... volunteers (my impression AFAIK )
 
@GregorMcGregor I'm sorry I missed it
 
@TonyTheLion it's ok <3
 
@TonyTheLion you're making it sound like people didn't learn with previous choices at all
 
12:06 AM
@KarelG Employees, the company entity
 
@BartekBanachewicz people on the internet learn? :P
 
they don't have that much time:p
 
Not all moderators are as inclined to read transcripts it seems. Researching chat can take a long time.
 
is there a more efficient way to do this? pastebin.com/tP6AB1vQ
 
@sehe ow - b0rked my own quote too
 
12:07 AM
@KarelG SO/SE has a number of "community managers" whose job is to...manage the communities. That's a lot more than just acting as "super moderators", but yes, they can do the latter when necessary.
 
@StanleyDharan use std::taxed_price (in <income>)
 
@StanleyDharan no; what makes you think so, in the first place?
 
@StanleyDharan #include "code.hpp"
 
sehe being outright negative as usual
 
12:08 AM
Thank you. We deffo need more dark jokes today
 
@Jefery what :p
 
@JerryCoffin Community manager started all this
 
@sehe well I was just thinking I could just do _price = _price * TAX and return _price
 
@melak47 No idea
 
instead of making another double
 
12:09 AM
@StanleyDharan You should use __this_convention
 
@StanleyDharan That costs nothing
 
@StanleyDharan Rather than a separate Boolean to say whether to apply tax, I'd just set the tax rate to 1.0 if there's no tax. Then the code would come down to: return price * tax_rate;
 
@Nooble b-but that's illegal!
 
@melak47 Do not worry, just escape the cops.
 
R"(cops)"
 
12:10 AM
@JerryCoffin Oh thats smart! I didnt even think of it like that
 
@StanleyDharan Tell me more about yourself
 
@StanleyDharan What did you eat for breakfast today?
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes--I'm not saying they're always a panacea, just answering the question about what/who is the next step "above" moderators.
 
help I need an adult
 
12:10 AM
Wrong place
 
a Kuala and Frankenstein are talking to me
 
Nov 22 at 18:47, by Elyse
Thank you for choosing Lounge<C++>. Have a look at The Rules and enjoy your stay!
 
Kuala Lumpur.
 
@StanleyDharan I'm probably the oldest one here at the moment, and I'm clearly not an adult yet.
 
oh and a dog
 
12:11 AM
@StanleyDharan There's no dog here, only a Puppy.
 
@JerryCoffin lmao in 5 hours I can legally drink
 
At least I have a reasonable human face as an avatar.
 
@StanleyDharan that's on the level of "how is pointar formed". Really, leave compiling to the compiler. @Jerry made a good point, but to your actual question I'd think "It's fine" is the correct answer. If anything, make the function non-mutating. Your _price = ... is much worse. Make it return _price * _tax_rate;
@StanleyDharan Is it ramadan?
 
@sehe okay ill keep that in mind thanks
wait what no? i dont think so
idk who or what you do to celebrate ramadan
all I know is ima get drunk af after my exams when my friends come home from their schools
 
Don't preoptimize
 
12:14 AM
i think my prof said that to my class once
 
Returning a new double is nothing.
 
hes like why do something that wasnt asked when you can just do it later and charge them again
 
@StanleyDharan Don't trust him if he talks about pointers.
 
Also the compiler will probably optimize that anyway.
 
I hope he said "don't optimize prematurely"
 
12:15 AM
Also, don't even think about being efficient in the beginning
 
something like that, he said rn theres no real point in trying to optimize
our programs are super small not even a mb
 
@Jefery I took that road.. now I write JavaScript.
 
Optimize only when your program is slow
And even then, it's probably going to be due to algorithmic complexity, not returning a new double as opposed to mutating an old one.
 
okay ill keep that in mind
 
@Jefery The compiler even optimizes this away: double* tmp = new double(_price); *tmp *= _tax_rate; struct X { double* _p; ~X() { delete _p; } } cleanup { tmp }; return *tmp;
 
12:17 AM
also i remember my prof telling us about this thing, i think he said initialization?
 
Well, I think all compilers do (excluding Borland C++ 3.1)
 
like hte space inbetween the brackets that accept values in a function
and the curly brace
whats that used for?
 
it isn't.
 
@rlemon Java Script Isnt A Real Programming Language
 
Come on. Fuzzy things like "something to do with interpunction" don't exist in programming.
 
12:18 AM
like 'function()<-- here -->{'
 
Programming is a formal endeavour
 
@nick no it isn't
JavaScript otoh is
 
@StanleyDharan it's used in code styles, not in compiling
 
Can someone please tell me what the what fuck happened/is happening? I'm in the middle of the goddamn ocean right now with internet that is shittier than my dial up and more expensive than my rent. And I'm getting half a gazillion notifications of everything going to hell in the Lounge.
 
@Mysticial Hang on.
 
12:18 AM
@sehe codes styles
 
@Mysticial rip
 
@Mysticial Lounge is closing tomorrow afternoon. It's all over.
 
@sehe what do you mean by that? in class he used it so he could use a constructor without directly calling it
 
@Mysticial something something stupid mods
 
3 hours ago, by sehe
So far we've established that Jerry made a gendered joke that - out of context - was picked up and cracked down upon. Strange, weird, but no biggie (nothing to barge in for and make threats /cc @Jon @Mysticial).
I see I presciently plinked you in that one
 
12:20 AM
@Mysticial to be honest, it might have done you better to disable everything that can connect to the internet
 
Also what the hell are you doing in the middle of the ocean?
 
@StanleyDharan No he didn't. You mean - I think struct X : Base { X() : Base(), member() { } /*...*/ }; but I'm guessing. Details matter. You can learn all about them in good books
@Mysticial Just disregard. I'll fill you in later. No worries
 
@sehe oh wait no yah you're right, when he inherited a class
he was explaining it during the inheritance part of the class, okay that makes sense
 
@sehe Actually, it'd be an interesting question for SO to decide whether it's really allowed to do so or not. Calling a library function is officially an observable side effect, and the new expression will (at least normally) eventually invoke ::operator new. Does that indirect invocation qualify as an observable side effect or not?
 
@JerryCoffin the newest standards have provisions for that
 
12:25 AM
Im not sure what I just read
but i'm confused
I'm not exactly keen on technical speak
@ScottW maybe after I finish this milestone
 
@LucDanton Newest standards or newest drafts?
 
not sure
 
@LucDanton Does bring up a good point though--I'm still looking at n3797 most of the time, and it's getting pretty old by now. I should probably grab something newer.
 
yeah it is :D
 
@JerryCoffin I think it has been asked/answered. The upshot is you can opt-out of instrinsics for malloc/free. And then the compiler does what is required.
@JerryCoffin me too :)
 
12:31 AM
@JerryCoffin I was gone this afternoon; critical family stuff.
I've tried to lay out guidelines for this on meta various times; perhaps it's time for a thorough revision of the chat FAQ that summarizes them. Will look at this tomorrow.
But I recoil instinctively from the notion that there is a "safe" list of words or topics; the problems that arise in chat - or on the main site for that matter - are rarely a matter of verbiage or subject. Oh, they start out that way; it's easy to write things that are bothersome to others, and made easier by informal chat or casual conversation. But such is the nature of a large and diverse group; I flick an ash in a crowd and it inevitably hits someone in the eye. I can apologize and not repeat the mistake, or grind the embers in with my foot - it is the latter that causes the most strife.
 
@StanleyDharan Don't worry. Either (a) it will come /or/ (b) you will stop using c++ very soon (hopefully)
 
The best advice I can give is: be honest, and be respectful. Lacking sincerety robs your words of meaning, and lacking empathy kills any hope of communication. Chat on Stack Exchange is ultimately a public forum, with all of the constraints and challenges this implies. I recently wrote about this at length here:
64
A: Why did our primary chatroom get nuked?

Shog9A problem has been festering in SFF's chatroom for some time now. And in spite of the best efforts of your moderators and room owners, it doesn't seem to be going away. I've observed the activity in SFF chat for some time now, and I've come to believe that the problem boils down to a fundamental ...

Again, I'll give this more thought tomorrow, with an eye toward updating the official guidance here. For now, this will have to suffice; I'm afraid it's been a long day.
 
@Shog9 Quite all right--I don't think this is something that can/will happen in a few minutes, even at best. I do think it's worth doing though.
 
'evening, @Scott
still catching up on transcripts
but I gotta take a break & make supper now
 
@sehe I have another semester of c++ then I get to choose between java or c++
 
12:32 AM
A Hot Brown Sandwich (sometimes known as a Kentucky Hot Brown) is an American hot sandwich originally created at the Brown Hotel in Louisville, Kentucky, by Fred K. Schmidt in 1926. It is a variation of traditional Welsh rarebit and was one of two signature sandwiches created by chefs at the Brown Hotel shortly after its founding in 1923. It was created to serve as an alternative to ham and egg late-night suppers. == IngredientsEdit == The Hot Brown is an open-faced sandwich of turkey and bacon, covered in Mornay sauce and baked or broiled until the bread is crisp and the sauce begins to brown...
 
with vectors and linked lists
 
Ohhh.. Shoggy now. I've never seen so many mods in one place before. There should be mince pies and silly hats.
 
@StanleyDharan anything but java ;-P
 
@Shog9 not if you're not keen on technical language. Please... The world has enough UB as it is
 
@StanleyDharan I would pick Java
 
12:34 AM
btw is there an easier way to check if something is in safe Empty state without a function? im just using an if statement with right now and checking is the member variables are 0/null
yah im not sure which i wanna go into
my brother learn't java at his school, my school teaches c++
 
@StanleyDharan What do you mean?
What's "safeEmpty"?
 
but they have a making game engine course and I think its all c++
@Jefery safe empty state
sorry forgot a word
 
Can you show some code?
 
lol - screen shots of code
 
12:36 AM
I was extremely lazy to do another pastebin LOL
there needs to be a utility tool for uploading code
like gyazo
 
Can you pastebin the whole class?
 
@KarelG who even are you
 
@sehe Probably simple prudence with Java, considering that Oracle already sued Google for using the definition of the Java interface (and won).
 
@StanleyDharan how would that work. You're testing very specific conditions. If you expect a compiler to magically think up these conditions...
 
hmpfh
does Shog updating guidelines absolve some particular moderators from any blame?
 
12:38 AM
@sehe well in the instructions it says "isEmpty return true if the Item is in a safe empty state." and so I used an if to see if they were empty/null
 
Just because "the guidelines weren't good enough"?
 
@sehe eh... Java is seductive in that regard, but fewer tripwires doesn't mean no tripwires. You can waste a bit less time lawyering, but you still gotta know how to read if you don't wanna get tripped.
 
Hey Bartek, did I tell you I'm reevaluating monad stacks?
 
@Shog9 yeah. programming is not for the weak
@BartekBanachewicz why do you ask
 
12:41 AM
@StanleyDharan I don't think _sku can ever be NULL
 
@StanleyDharan Horrible member variable naming convention. Instead use __gcc_ as a prefix.
 
FTR I've invited Madara for a 1:1 chat too. Same private chat with Ed, though, so it's more like 2:1
 
What's _sku by the way?
 
@Jefery sku number
 
Madara's not a bad guy
 
12:42 AM
What's that?
 
its used to track items usually
 
the other Nick did have a complaint with him, said that he was a bit too trigger-happy with kicks
 
Oh I see
Is it some kind of code?
 
like a barcode
 
I see
 
12:43 AM
@nick I think so too. We'll work it out
 
like in a real life scenario a shipping company would use it for logging internally and stuff
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh god I might have to recompile the kernel, and/or mesa...
 
@sehe certainly
 
well thats what we used it for when I worked at a warehouse anyways
 
@Borgleader Ask Ell
(Don't run Debian derivatives)
 
12:44 AM
Too late, Ubuntu Mate is up and running
 
> Ask Ell
A new weekly column in the lounge classifieds
 
Ask the Kernell
(double pun sortof)
 
@StanleyDharan Why does an Item object holds the quantity of said items?
Also using doubles for prices is a bad idea
Having the items also have his own "empty" state is bad as well.
 
@Jefery to know how many of that item there is, it prints to a txt file, the final project is a item management program
 
I would use boost::optional<Item> with Item being a class that represents an actual item and never an empty state.
 
12:47 AM
I have no clue what that is
 
@jaggedSpire wtv floats your goat :3 /cc @TonyTheLion @Morwenn
 
@Borgleader awwww :)
 
@Borgleader :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I finally put the finger on what was bothering about this perspective. Have you considered garnishes, glazes, croutons being served together with soup? I could go on. Most of those things you would not eat on their own either, and 'to enhance[…] otherwise shit food' would be a very weird way to put it.
 
gayiee /cc @Bartek
 
12:48 AM
@StanleyDharan Wait, is this for school?
 
@Borgleader So cute, educating the goat to be retarded :3
 
Have you studied templates yet?
 
@Morwenn <3
 
@ScottW I don't use Ableton :o
 
@Jefery yup
 
12:50 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It’s altogether a very utilitarian view of food, where it’s taken to be interchangeable or perhaps even fungible. Myself it’s not the 'food' I see, it’s the dishes. And everything that is put in the dishes is here to change or tweak some aspect of it (plain taste, appearance, more subtle aroma, texture), and if you remove an ingredient (including spices) then maybe it’s not the same dish anymore.
 
I don’t put spices in my rice because I don’t like spiceless rice, I put them because I want to make a curry.
 
@Borgleader that makes me want to go to bed
and snuggle
 
@Borgleader :3
 
good idea
 
12:52 AM
yep
Ok going to bed
please behave yourselves
love you <3
fap fap fap
Thanks @BartekBanachewicz :)
 
@TonyTheLion define behave
 
@jaggedSpire lol
 
@TonyTheLion sweet dreams
 
@ScottW oh noes. There we go again with the non-gender inclusive banter.
Seriously though. Consider it. It's not very inclusive
 
12:54 AM
@ScottW yeah I trashtalked you cuz you weren't in mumbl.
 
@TonyTheLion sleep well :)
 
@jaggedSpire #define behave
 
@Borgleader k
 
I dunno what I think of this. I mean, I'd personally say it's liberating to come here and just be yourself. But that might not be the case for all people from all cultures. Which prompts the question - should they be allowed to find a room of their own where they feel at home. Hmm. Tough questions.
 
@sehe it wasn't serious
 
12:56 AM
 
@BartekBanachewicz wut - do you think I assume seriousness?
 
@sehe I don’t follow
 
not at 1:56am, no
 
@LucDanton Half joking. But I suppose if the right person flagged this, it would... attract attention again. I'm trying to gauge how I really feel about that.
Primarily, I find it tiresome. But many things in life are tiresome, that merit a bit more thought
 
I don’t see the gender angle is what I meant
 
12:58 AM
are you that obtuse
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not at any time. Except in a shitstorm. Then I expect some more effort of most parties - ROs and mods first.
 
@GregorMcGregor I cannot understand unless detailed anatomical diagrams are involved
 
Is Luc seriously not understanding the gender gap in "being a wanker"?
 
@LucDanton Wanking is something girls can't do for themselves, right?
 
@LucDanton You're not very acute
 

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