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6:00 PM
@Mysticial @ScottW blah - clicked the wrong link to - was meant to link to <<<<
 
@ScottW I like it when more than half of a video are diclamers
 
Pasta or rice? Mmmmh...
 
@ScottW So that was a good 60 seconds of disclaimers followed by 10 seconds of nothing
I'm convinced that the thing was a thing and
 
Ell
this was it!
 
@JonClements I'm not pessimistic at all. I'm seeing it already. Of course I won't name names here. That's why we can't have nice things. When people are determined to do something (make other people miserable), nothing will stop them. And I'm sure you've seen plenty of that as a mod. :)
 
6:03 PM
oh hi @Mysticial :)
hows the job?
 
pretty good so far
 
Sep 26 at 13:26, by Ell
Zulip chat looks exactly like what we need to replace Stack Overflow chat
 
> T.83: Do not declare a member function template virtual
 
you didn't really link it @Ell
 
Nice guideline, the language forbids it
 
6:04 PM
Well that's why you shouldn't do it, duh
 
@Mysticial nice
 
> We need a rule because people keep asking about this
So let's write a rule for all dumb stuff people keep asking for which are not supported by the language
 
Near 7pm I always feel so tired
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion well there it is now :D
 
@Ell this is true :)
 
6:08 PM
@TonyTheLion I don't think so...
 
looks interesting, but we've been over this a few times, and the conclusion: Loungers wanna stay here
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion I would move to it. But really I just want it because I need to chat with some non-loungers
 
@TonyTheLion yet not happy here :P
 
@ScottW Very very rare
Not nearly "most"
 
even IRC is dying now. :(
 
Ell
6:10 PM
IRC has no features
 
IRC is in exactly the same state it's always been
 
Ell
I need the features
 
I'm fine here, but I don't mind looking for other planets in different galaxies so we could move there if our star explodes
 
@Mysticial I've sadly seen my fair share... but it's always addressable - just a shame it's one of those things on-line (and IRL) that needs addressing
 
till then, I'll prefer this chat though
 
6:11 PM
Finally I managed to take a dump this week
Holy shit
 
Congrats
Was it amazing?
 
Praise the dump!
 
> Happy Dump Day!
/cc @Tony
 
It was ok, nothing special
C+
@BartekBanachewicz Oh yeah, what's your highest rank on HS again?
 
user406009
6:24 PM
Oh god Haskell.
 
user406009
It's the return of the stack overflow again.
 
user1804599
Haskell is great.
 
If you keep repeating it, eventually you'll believe it.
 
Or not
 
user406009
Of course, adding print statements makes the stack overflow go away ...
 
user406009
6:29 PM
Lol
 
Fuck, dammit cosh. I did not need to see that xd
 
@thecoshman yikes
 
@thecoshman that is that for his football career
 
6:32 PM
Morning fellas
 
@MadaraUchiha Hey :)
 
@ElimGarak rather some shoulder deep firsting?
 
@MadaraUchiha Hey
 
> Thanks, but strictly following "semantic" versioning wouldn't work out very well for Backbone. Given that the project is almost all surface area, and very little internals, almost any given change (patch, pull request) to Backbone breaks backwards-compatibility in some small way ... even if only for the folks relying on previously undefined behavior.
jabbascript debelopers bad news at 11
 
I'll probably be the second moderator to actively moderate chat (alongside @JonClements), so I dropped by to say hi :P
 
6:34 PM
> even if only for the folks relying on previously undefined behavior
eh?
@MadaraUchiha you're gonna make a lot of friends
 
@MadaraUchiha welcome :)
 
@CatPlusPlus that's a lot of words to say "we are bad"
 
Ah, the new mod from the elections.
 
@CatPlusPlus I've never really seen the need to use Backbone
 
@ElimGarak I'm not sure @Madara's a DS9 fan though - haven't talked that much yet... :p
 
6:35 PM
It's a library that doesn't really solve any problem
 
too much blue
 
> June 2013
 
ill be back later when I can cuss freely
 
@MadaraUchiha But it's jabbascript! new things! useful jsfdlkvfdajvhsadlkjvahsldkjalskdas no it's garbage all of those fucking frameworks are garbage all of jabbascript is garbage
 
Xeo
Smurf Overflow
 
6:36 PM
I think they're over it by now.
 
@ElimGarak who cares as long as he helps keep the crap out though, hey @Mysticial @xeo @TonyTheLion :p
 
@CatPlusPlus Meh, I find JavaScript useful and concise. The library explosion is a real problem though.
 
@Jeremy Doubt it
 
lol, :(
 
@Xeo Btw, what is your new avatar? The only I know about it is that it doesn't suck. :)
 
6:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus Well it's a JS framework that's over a year old, so probably nobody uses it anymore
 
Ell
word to describe how full something: ie get_fullness but better
get_of_capacity
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Konpaku Youmu from Touhou
 
ahhhhh
 
@Xeo oh - my bad - hadn't even noticed it'd changed - much prefer it to the freaky boring other one :)
 
No wonder it looked somewhat familiar.
I saw posters of this at Anime Midwest:
 
Xeo
6:38 PM
ye, that's her
 
@thecoshman laffo
@Jeremy They typed all these words gist.github.com/jashkenas/cbd2b088e20279ae2c8e so
 
Hey-ho, I just noticed Star Wars Rebels is back with Season 2.
 
Well, I'll be off then, flags to decline, users to smite. If you guys need any help, feel free to ping me or flag for mod attention.
Have a nice day! :)
 
Ell
6:43 PM
oh, it's called "load factor"
@MartinJames :(
 
user1804599
Should Vagrant provisioning install Python library dependencies? What if I use virtualenv?
 
Why do my delimiters come out as a crossed-out 'W'?
 
@Elyse Probably, install them to virtualenv
Provisioning should do everything that's necessary to run the project
 
user1804599
Ok.
 
@MartinJames That's korean currency (Won), right?
I don't know. When I enabled Japanese, I started getting Yen symbols for backslashes.
I didn't bother investigating.
 
6:46 PM
@Jeremy Fuck knows. It only appears on one form of my app and only on a very small minority of boxes. I cannot reproduce it:(
 
@Elyse How's your usage of audiere going?
 
user1804599
Not. I'm not going to use it.
 
> The directory separator character also appears on Korean versions of Microsoft Windows as ₩, because ₩ occupies the same position (0x5C) on code page 949 that backslash occupies in ASCII.[1]
 
user1804599
Because the relevant project has been abandoned.
 
6:47 PM
Sooo... You did a righfold
 
user406009
@набиячлэвэлиь Everyone abandons projects.
 
@Jeremy Oh fuck:( I didn't think it was a codepage issue 'cos it only happens on one form, the other forms with paths in edit boxes are OK. Shit:(
 
@CatPlusPlus that face though :P
 
Fucking Koreans:(( Them and the Chinese. The food is great, but the languages... :(
 
uggggh why is everyone so bad at versioning
It's really not a fucking rocket science
 
6:52 PM
Hey guise
 
@Rerito Hi, welcome to my, (Korean), nightmare.
 
Someone familiar with iptables here? I've got some problems setting the redirection of HTTP(S) traffic on my router privoxy server
@MartinJames Korean? Am I meant to be from Korea?
 
@Rerito If you are, I hate your stupid language to pieces :)
 
Ell
I just felt the benefit of being good at programming
 
I'm not, but you may also hate my language :p
 
Ell
6:54 PM
I made a change that I thought was going to be hell but it was as easy a pie
 
@Rerito Nah, French, (language), is OK. It's just those with thousands of chars that I cannot stand.
 
Ven
it sucks :P
 
@Ell That's only "good" if you knew it was going to be easy and it's easy because you made it easy.
 
Ell
It's easy because I made it easy
well
I attempted to :V I didn't have faith in myself until it just turned out actually to be easy :P
it's probably their fault, I'll just wait and it will be fixed :3
 
bah
I made a LinkedIn account because a colleague wanted to network with me and now I have 5 emails in my inbox from them spamming me
 
Ell
7:06 PM
unscrubscribe from their emails you scrub
 
too late for that, I already got five
 
@Puppy Dont tell me youre surprised.
 
I only expected two
 
I have LinkedOut
 
7:22 PM
So, I pulled out the fragmented pieces of the lowest LoD of the GTA V map, a bunch of sectors... Lost a bit of the block textures, sure as hell won't be going back for them. Here's a 4K rendering of them with VRay. Looks quite nice when you put it in perspective, lots of variation.
 
@ElimGarak I can see my house from here!
 
@melak47 All three of them :D
#nextgen
 
those buildings ... so last century :'(
 
@ElimGarak reminds me of MS flight simulator :)
 
7:33 PM
:\ I just wasted like 10 minutes flying that hoverboard collecting 86 coins
 
Man, I just love realtime rendering. I don't think there's anything else software-wise that excites me as much as it.
 
streaming porn?
 
Ell
@ElimGarak how's the book going?
 
@Ell Progressing nicely, although I'd love to spend more time working on it which is balanced by my disdain for 'tex.
 
Ell
What is the disdain for TeX about?
figure placing?
 
7:38 PM
I like stuff looking pretty and that requires a lot of work with TeX. Which is probably why most everything under the Sun is basically made from some template and all generic-like. When I propose writing the next one, please slap me.
 
@Ell It's TeX.
 
Ell
@ElimGarak Stuff looking pretty requires not much work with TeX imho
I used to hate it also :V
and I still do hate it kinda but it doesn't take me lots of work to get pretty results
 
Not just pretty, but also very much custom. Which immediately drops any hope for a templated derivative. If only InDesign were a viable choice.
 
Ell
Are you writing your own documentclass or something then? :P
 
7:42 PM
Oh, yes. And I hate everything about it. :(
 
Ell
@ElimGarak whyyy
there is already one there called book written exactly for books :P
this is NIH to the extreme
 
and the article is for the lounge that keeps motivating me from time to time
love, Bartek.
P.S. except for cat. He's an ass.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz hehe
 
@Ell It is. Erosion of my time and nerves notwithstanding, it's going to end up looking pretty good. And I got a greater insight into the whole thing. I just have this stupid urge to know every detail. :D
 
Ell
@ElimGarak can't you write it first and then substitute a new documentclass? :P
 
7:47 PM
should ... lounge has its own entry in wiki? @_@
 
> but as long as they're around, I'm really not going to have access to any of that money. In the meanwhile, though, everyone in my life assumes I do.
This is a misconception that also relatives make when your company is doing good. And that money is necessary for its future, not for whatever they believe it should be spent on.
 
@ElimGarak Lowest LOD as in farthest or closest? I hate highest/lowest LOD naming i never know which end is which T_T Most/Leaast detailed LOD is clearer.
 
Ell
lowest level of detail means when you're far away
right?
Ugh idk how I should write my hashtable iterator
 
In everyday English, I prefer the literal "lowest level of detail". It's actually level 5, each sector is LoD5 (farthest out). When going 0-n, I call it closest LoD to farthest LoD. But, too much personal preference in this.
 
@Ell Why are you writing a collection API for C? Uni project?
 
Ell
7:55 PM
@milleniumbug yeah assignment
 
@ElimGarak yeah closest/farthest lod is fine too. Its just lowest could either mean 0 (as in 0 is the lowest out of 0-5) but it could also mean lowest amount pol;ys
 
Ell
hmm wait a second
I should have all of the elements in a linked list
not one linked list per bucket
well I'm stupid :V
 
linked list of bucket lists :D
 
Bucket bucket of bucket buckets
 
Ell, you new to hash tables? :P
 
user406009
7:58 PM
@Ell You clearly need more linked lists.
 
user406009
Linked lists of linked lists of linked lists.
 
Ell
@ElimGarak yup
 
user406009
Sorta like Haskell.
 
Ell
I have never implemented any collections before uni
it was >9000% pointless
 
But you have used them, I presume :D
 
Ell
8:00 PM
I've used unordered_map, which may or may not be implemented with linked lists :P
 
Here's the colorized sectors distro.
 
@Ell it's a red-black tree
which is kinda easy to implement really
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz ordered_map is an rb tree
isn't it?
 
8:02 PM
oh right
 
Nobody does hash tables with RB trees
 
Ell
unordered_map is a hashtable
 
You could
But nobody does
 
yeah i never implemented hashtables
 
@ElimGarak 3ds max's default color palette is so terribly beautiful
 
8:02 PM
that's way more pointless than trees
 
Ell
hashtables?
 
but e.g. quadtrees are easy and fun
 
hashtrees?
 
Not implementing stuff seems to be a Lounge theme :P
 
never write code if you can not write it
 
Ell
8:03 PM
^
 
@ElimGarak ayy
 
Ell
unless you're writing it for fun ofc
 
> never write code if you cannot write it
 
Ell
which is pretty much all my code
 
I did write a hashtable once.
the Standard hashtable has some unnecessary constraints I needed to avoid.
 
Xeo
8:04 PM
like iterator invalidation?
That's the annoying one, IMO
 
no, it was key type equivalence.
 
Don't write code: steal it then give credits. It even makes people happy that you stole their code.
 
iterator invalidation might also have been another thing
 
Xeo
@Puppy oh yeah, that's another one
 
> people
 
8:04 PM
that always fucked me off about unordered_map
 
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
 
Awwwwwwwwwww
 
@jaggedSpire I'm using only one hand, ok?
 
Ell
@Puppy yeah iirc iterator invalidation leaves the only implementation one where the buckets are linked lists
 
@Morwenn :3
 
8:05 PM
I used to have a dwarf hamster :(
 
@orlp :) Awwww :D :)
 
@orlp :D
 
Xeo
@Ell no, lists actually would not invalidate the iterators
it's the constant time insertion, as @Andy researched, that requires the list
 
@orlp Now I'm happy too :3
 
@Ell Fine by me.
 
Ell
8:06 PM
@Xeo Oh I see, sorry I didn't read through the transcript :)
 
I don't have a problem with the Standard classes being more constrained for more correct programs.
if you desperately need some other hashing strategy you can always find or write your own hashtable
 
Xeo
the iterator invalidation one has annoyed me to no end at times, though
 
ewwwww
> The name of the friend is not found by unqualified lookup or by qualified lookup until a matching declaration is provided in that namespace scope (either before or after the class definition granting friendship).
 
Xeo
had to change to normal maps
@ScarletAmaranth eh, that's okay-ish
 
Ell
Why do they require constant time insertion? Couldn't you add a bucket_container template param and let it be what it is?
 
8:07 PM
@Xeo I have never really realized... I somehow just always end up friending some operators and they just magically work
 
because
hashtables are pointless without constant time insertion.
 
Xeo
^
 
may as well use an rb-tree instead and get proper iterator invalidation instead.
 
Xeo
it's the whole point, for me anyways
 
it's like std::list
requiring O(1) size() was stupid- practically the whole point of a list is O(1) ops for stuff like splicing.
 
Xeo
8:08 PM
and iterator (non-)invalidation
 
Ell
eh wait maybe I do want one linked list per bucket
 
Constant time lookup is probably more important for hashtables
 
std::list is for when you're implementing Haskell in C++ ofc
 
Ell
I'll think about it some other time :3
2
 
I don't think std::list has easy head/tail
You want cons lists for Lisp/Haskell/whatever
 
8:12 PM
it doesn't?
*std::begin is head
++std::begin is tail?
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus yeah, splicing being O(n) makes it nasty
@ScarletAmaranth head/tail is not about access
but deconstruction
 
The music video is p great.
 
@Xeo yeah ok then you'll end up making a pretty little tree vOv
 
I wrote a cons list with recursive boost::variant for snack overflow once
 
8:14 PM
Back in 2013, probably even earlier :P In 2013 you were fed up with snacks.
 
user image
2
/cc @Griwes
 
Ell
I carnt r33d that
 
11
A: Is stateless visitor pattern possible in C++?

Cat Plus PlusThis can certainly be improved (use smart pointers for tail ownership, for example), but the basic idea: template <typename T> struct cons_list { T head; cons_list<T>* tail; explicit cons_list(T head, cons_list *tail = nullptr) : head(head), tail(tail) {} template <...

 
@BartekBanachewicz #januszeinformatyki
 
8:18 PM
he's got a point :D
@Ell 2lazy2translate
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can feel the disdain and cursing in it, even though I can't translate it proper. :D
 
It's dumb you're not missing anything
 
@CatPlusPlus mlyp
also I have a bit more hate on that
2 hours ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Hey let's ruin perfectly good mechanical things with computers
 
8:22 PM
because fuck TCS and ABS. Should we go back to carbuterors and mechanical ignition?
 
Planes are serious business
 
I spent 10 minutes freezing my fingers off because a carbuteror in my bike doesn't like low temperatures and YOU PERSONALLY are responsible for this, you technology hating pile of wank
 
laffo
You're so disconnected from reality it's unreal
 
projection much?
 
Bartek & Cat. Has to be experienced.
 
8:24 PM
It's boring
 
@ElimGarak to be believed
 
you know what's boring? Your uneducated hate of things you don't understand and have no control over.
"perfectly good mechanical things" my ass.
 
Why can't y'all motherfuckers get along? <3
 
blah blah blah
 
@ElimGarak spread the love <3
 
8:25 PM
@ElimGarak I dunno, I appreciate technology and all the hard effort put into making it.
 
I saw a fluffy dog at the park today. It really loved cuddling with its owner. :3
 
Upload so slow it's killing me
 
the constantly-demanding assholes who keep saying that "nasa wastes money" or "computers are bad" are nothing but an annoyance
hence, it annoys me.
 
@CatPlusPlus Have you tried writing it on a piece of paper and sending it via pigeon carrier?
 
That would've been faster probably
This API is only accepting JSON though
 
8:27 PM
y'all need some more red pandas in your life /cc @Borgleader @TonyTheLion @ScottW
@ScottW hello. :)
 
@Ell "OS is a fucking TOOL, it's to manage files and run programs. ANY graphic frills are totally fucking USELESS. It's like, I don't know, fucking buy a car, and then pour the concrete on the floor and then put an oak bench on the center and curtains on the windows. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED THAT YOU WENCH? SAVE RAM WHEREVER YOU ARE."
too bored now
 
Ell
lol
it looks amusing witohut even reading it
 
I have an exam tomorrow
 
lunchtime /cc @Borgleader @TonyTheLion
 
it is memes
I should've built this image on some remote thing so I don't have to upload it from here ugghgh
 
8:30 PM
you mean on the cloud?
you should try to leverage your platform more next time
 
food coma time /cc @Borgleader @TonyTheLion @ThePhD
Buzzword Thicket would be a fun name for something.
 
@jaggedSpire all the <3 :3 <3 :3 <3
 
@Borgleader ^_^
 
@jaggedSpire Is your hair short yet? :(
 
8:38 PM
@Borgleader The appointment is for Saturday.
 
I see
 
@Borgleader and then sweet freedom will be mine. :)
 
This is so strangely funny
careful at the end there, who knows what random Japanese shit will be suggested next
 
Okay this stupid upload won't end
 
user3047181
do they do any c++ at facebook?
 
8:43 PM
@jaggedSpire You'll miss them I'm sure
 
@Borgleader eh, I'll just stop caring at some point and grow it out again. :P
 
Ven
@MeltyButter just check their github
 
I could look, but we all know that I'd rather not
 
i wouldn't think you're into music creation
 
user1804599
8:52 PM
Python y u no atomic Booleans.
 
Python has a GIL so I don't see their need for atomic anything
 
user1804599
The GIL is a CPython implementation detail.
 
user1804599
Everywhere the documentation refers to the GIL, it refers to it as "CPython-specific".
 
presumably the atomicity of their booleans is also an implementation detail
 

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