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19:00
sometimes I can't help it but I shouldn't go full bartek just because someone doesn't share my views often
I do like my higher-order functions and I won't let anyone take away fold or map from me
I know this sounds incredibly stupid given I do this over and over but I guess that's one peculiarity of my brain I can't consciously fight and I've had a hard week
@BartekBanachewicz it's no problem, we all get fanatic over things
@Borgleader Awwww <3
user1804599
@orlp in type inference, yes
user1804599
19:04
If you specify the type, you must specify it completely.
user1804599
Not just a part of it.
You could argue that any function body is always valid
and that that implicitly defines the traits it wants
there is no two-stage lookup
I personally don't like that (as that's just inference of function types)
but you can use it to avoid the two-stage lookup
e.g. if I write a = \x -> x * x and then try to do a "test" (forgive me on the loosely used syntax here), it would be a type error because Str doesn't provide the Mul trait
@orlp what kind of problems does it solve specifically?
@BartekBanachewicz allowing generics that error on define time, rather than instantiation time
once you've defined it succesfully you know it will work for any type that implement the traits
user1804599
@orlp Yes.
19:09
@Elyse however, I still don't like this approach
It's essentially isomorphic to template<class T>
user1804599
No.
@BartekBanachewicz two different thigns
@BartekBanachewicz the thing I'm discussing right now with elyse is inferring traits required
user1804599
It adds the restriction that Mul must be implemented for T.
19:10
@orlp yeah I was at that
@BartekBanachewicz I don't agree with inferred traits, I like explicit traits
I presume concept-like explicit trait requirement is OK
@orlp oh okay
(maybe with an exception here and there)
(e.g. == doesn't really hurt)
yeah I was asking what problems does inferring traits solve
@BartekBanachewicz ahh
IMO they create more problems than solve
19:11
^
public APIs should be as explicit as possible
OTOH, I really want partial signatures in Haskell
and I think partial signatures imply trait inference
I like deductive typing
not inductive typing
consider f :: _ -> Bool
I have cases where I omitted the signature because it was like
can't that just be f :: Any -> Bool
Any allows any type but no operations on it
that's fine
19:13
@ScottW how was your pizza?
<3 <3 :)
yeah well I can show you a concrete example of my code where I found it annoying to type a full sig
@BartekBanachewicz I can give a million of those in C++
for the record, I do not mind inferred return type of a function
because that's a simple deduction of the input traits + function body
src\Hate\Graphics\Pipeline\Util.hs:(30,1)-(36,26): Warning:
    Top-level binding with no type signature:
      setUniformMatGeneric :: forall m (s :: * -> *).
                              (ToOpenGLMatrix m, GL.HasSetter s) =>
                              (GL.UniformLocation -> s (GL.GLmatrix GLflt))
                              -> Pipeline -> String -> m -> IO ()
what it really boils down to is
setUniformM4 :: Pipeline -> String -> Mat4 -> IO ()
setUniformM4 = setUniformMatGeneric U.uniformGLMat4
hello
in this case I would be really happy with Pipeline -> String -> _ -> IO ()
19:18
@BartekBanachewicz I think in this case
moving the forall junk to it's own trait definition would've cleaned stuff up
@orlp that's a rank-2 trait, but yeah :)
@Borgleader @jaggedSpire @ScottW <3 <3 <3
@BartekBanachewicz are there any problems associated with those that I don't know?
@orlp other that sounding scary for newbies?
@BartekBanachewicz ok :)
19:19
@orlp I mean meself was afraid of RankNTypes for quite some time
took me about 5-6 months to feel comfy with them
basically a trait is a predicate on types that allows syntax
5-6 months of real-world time, not full 8-hour workday dev ofc
predicates are composable
@TonyTheLion I relate to this corgi
@orlp oh wait I misunderstood then
19:21
@Borgleader awwww <3
I'll show you what I meant
@BartekBanachewicz I wasn't done yet :)
you can parametrize predicates
-- Rank 1
Matrixish m => Pipeline -> String -> m -> IO ()

-- Rank 2
Pipeline -> String -> Matrixish -> IO ()
basically
in the ideal world
if needed, a trait can be arbitrary predicate on introspection on that type
with an associated return value of granted syntax
@orlp I think you would like type classes :)
19:25
@BartekBanachewicz you've dabbled in Python, no?
unless you know them already and there's something I'm missing
@orlp I did, but in a specific part of it. I don't consider myself a proficient pythonist.
either way
you probably know that Python doesn't have function overloading
instead, you must use isinstance(x, SomeBaseClass) and use if/else's if you really need to
if a statically typed programming language provides introspection, and a proper trait system
you should be able to do the same
@BartekBanachewicz "Matrixish"?
19:27
and thus have the full power of the programming language to define function signatures
and define 'syntax-grants' at the lack of a better word
@BartekBanachewicz think template metaprogramming but without all the cruft and more information about the types you're inspecting
@orlp I can't help but think that TMP operates on classes which inherently carry behaviour with them. I have to admit I find it hard to morph to the data-based Haskell world of type classes.
it can do but TMP really uses the class as a function
yeah
if you think about stuff like std::remove_reference, that's a function from a type to a type.
essentially.
the fact that it has to be a template class is really just a language detail that doesn't matter
oh i was thinking more about enable_if
19:33
@BartekBanachewicz well that's the predicate part
@BartekBanachewicz That's just a function as well
(bool, type): optional<type>
in Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, Oct 7 at 6:49, by Andy Prowl
thinking the lines are out of order
how dare you
@AndyProwl it didn't survive though. Must have been dem lines
@StackedCrooked Do you object if I deploy to coliru from a post-deploy step on CI?
@sehe Sad story :(
I OBJECT!
19:36
okeydokey
Erm.Can you still access it?
no idea
haven't tried for a while ;p
but I figured I'd check with you before trying to do so
@Puppy yes, but type has functions associated with it
How how does this deployment work?
well, from memory, the steps you gave me for uploading to coliru weren't that tricky, so I would just have written a script to do it.
19:38
Could someone help me with a JNI? I have the C++ file compiled fine but Java says it's an invalid Win32 application
and then invoked that script from a deployment hook
let me check
I made sure java was 64 bit, and I also made sure my compiler was. They both were 64 bit.
@SuperstarGamer-Trent Have you tried searching on SO? seems like there are a few related questions
I have looked there, but their answers seem to be easily fixed by running in Administrator mode or the JNI used DLL's they didnt know about.
All I'm doing is printing out "Hello world" using C and C++ to practice my skills in them
19:43
@Puppy I have a script that downloads from this location: http://ci.loungecpp.net/repository/download/WideDefault/.lastFinished/Wide/Depl‌​oyment/Wide.zip
But it doesn't seem to work.
yeah, the Lounge CI is dead and I'm setting myself up on Travis
I'm hosting the builds on Amazon S3, I could just make a "latest current" folder
guys
for future reference
if you're going to post a trigger warning
please post a trigger warning warning
it triggers me
Are trigger warnings still a thing
I recently read that a college campus has segregated safe spaces.
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to C++ and pointers and stuff. When I do:

Node *newNode = new Node(value);
firstNode = newNode;


Node *firstNode;
Node newNode(value);
firstNode = &newNode;
claremontindependent.com/safe-spaces-segregate-the-claremont-colleges/
19:47
Oops
Does that trigger you
Submitted too soon
Too soon bro too soon
Just ignore that
@Pikamander2 triggered
19:48
I swear, this doesn't happen often
@GregorMcGregor god dammit I clicked without even thinking
Cleanup on aisle 3 plz
I WANT MY HATS
also don't use new
19:49
use factories amirite
@milleniumbug (except when invoking access-protected constructors with the result of the new-expression being passed immediately to a smart pointer constructor)
@Andy did you break down?
or maybe heal, dunno
@JohanLarsson Into Carbon and Hydrogen, mostly
I'm trying to make a new struct. The first example works, the second doesn't. The second example doesn't give a compiler error and it builds just fine, but when I try to access a value from firstNode, I get -9.25596e+061

Node *firstNode;
Node *newNode = new Node(value);
firstNode = newNode;

Node *firstNode;
Node newNode(value);
firstNode = &newNode;
Xeo
Xeo
user image
4
My pie named itself.
19:52
@To kill or to @seh?
I mean, I could just use the first code, but I'd like to know why the second one doesn't work, or how to make it work
@набиячлэвэлиь why not both
its a sign, your pie is divine. hopefully its the best flavour, key lime
@Xeo illuminati confirmed
19:52
lemon is best pie
@набиячлэвэлиь Who's @To anyways
@sehe Look at autocomplete while typing
@набиячлэвэлиь that doesn't ping me
@Xeo Is that cheesecake
Xeo
Xeo
19:53
@Rapptz yes
Xeo
Xeo
also known as bestcake
@набиячлэвэлиь Makes about 0.038 sense
@Xeo that looks yummy
Cheesecake is p. top tier
19:53
@набиячлэвэлиь that pings me
Wergh stupid arbitrary rules
Xeo
Xeo
Only thing better is russischer zupfkuchen (which is basically enhanced cheesecake) /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
@Puppy you can mail me the details
cheesecake is the fattiest cake of all time
cheesecake is amaze <3
19:54
@rlemon amen
@Xeo Russian kitchensoup?
Xeo
Xeo
@Prismatic Amazeballs
Or Russian Bakedsoup?
@Prismatic Baby.
Man I had chocolate cheesecake once... it was so good
19:54
@набиячлэвэлиь If you have nothing interesting to say, please don't wake me up
Xeo
Xeo
@набиячлэвэлиь It's cheesecake with chocolate batter drops on top, basically.
:drools:
@Rapptz it's pretty great but too much == no bueno
@sehe you were sleeping?
Xeo
Xeo
^ that
can also be with less chocolate batter on top
19:55
chocolate cheesecake?
Xeo
Xeo
I guess
I dislike chocolate :/
I'm broken
@Xeo This looks pretty good.
@Xeo nnnnnn and caramel lightly drizzed on top
@rlemon This looks like keylime.
Keylime is disgusting.
19:56
lemon meringue
the best pie
GO VOTE FOR STERLING
@Rapptz key lime is mixed with stuff
Like it doesn't look like mashed up fruit
@BartekBanachewicz I have that book.
gf makes a nice apple cake, stuffed with ice cream
Xeo
Xeo
Can't wait to taste the cheesecake
First I ever made completely from scratch
19:56
Any cake/pie made with heavy lemon/lime is disgusting.
Keylime being the most common.
good thing there is no pie police
key lime isn't even that lime-y
because lemon pie is the best pie
:D
19:57
lemon makes everything better
I was expecting codedump cleanup, but oh well
I made rhubarb pie with a hint of chili once, was decent
@rlemon Sounds like the concept for a hit show on the food network
Xeo
Xeo
@набиячлэвэлиь cakedump moved it out of the way
aaah, I wanna taste the pie. mmm, pie~
19:59
@Xeo cakedump is best dump
@Prismatic this week on Pie Police, keylime in keywest. will it beat the heat?
@Elyse ^ I have incorporated the expression tree pretty printer into the IDE. Not how test is an array, but clear takes a pointer :)
user1804599
Nice.
@fredoverflow any more vids?
Ell
Ell
Lemon best flavour
20:00
@JohanLarsson I plan on doing a remake of the sizeof video now that I can show the value of a sizeof expression without actually running the program.
Ell
Ell
Strong lemon
Lemon curd mayn
I think peppermint curd would be good
you know what I didn't ever consider? peppermint infused lemonade.. shit is amazing.
real talk lounge, which pastry is the best pastry
cannoli
donuts
because 'murica
20:02
@JohanLarsson This is what I mean.
nice
I never use 42 in my samples
Often use fuu instead of foo
@JohanLarsson why
did not love hitchhiker's guide
I dislike foo and bar
What?
20:05
was fun in the beginning but got annoying fast
top, kek and topkek best sample verbol names
user406009
20:15
@JohanLarsson The book, the audio, or the movie?
user406009
The movie was bad, but the book was legit.
the book
don't remember if i watched the movie
user406009
I guess it really depends on what types of books you like.
user406009
Some people love mysteries, some love drama, some love comedy.
Xeo
Xeo
@набиячлэвэлиь *verbibol
user406009
20:17
And some people even like Kevin C's book which is a mix of all three.
user406009
@Prismatic Brownies.
what happens when you put lasers on top of sharks
@Lalaland racist
@orlp The lasers stop working, duh
Electronics under water is a no-go
@набиячлэвэлиь what if we use "lasers"
user406009
20:20
We clearly need to use lazors.
user406009
They are much better.
@Lalaland I always think that people who say they like hhgttg have only read one book :)
user406009
I have discovered the linux fortune program today.
user406009
It's great.
user406009
20:21
I put it in my bash prompt and my productivity dropped like 90%.
Hello.
I don't normally stop in here, but the C room is pretty quiet...
danger
user406009
@Owatch That's because we have more to complain about.
user406009
C++ being a worse language and whatnot.
Well, I'm pretty boggled by C as it is/
user406009
20:24
@Owatch Since you are new here, that was a joke. We don't really talk about C++ much here.
Oh.
Well, same goes for NSChat..
We don't talk that much about Objective-C either.
What's annoying me, is that I've got the simplest for loop in the world. Literally goes through a string of length 10. And prints the characters. However, if I pass the same char array pointer to another function, along with exactly the same length, it prints it wrong.
user406009
@Owatch Probably a use after free bug.
user406009
Do you have the code?
But I haven't freed the array..
Yes, I do. One moment..
Alright, here we go: pastebin.com/dghG6iWC
I can see that when it's printed the second time (When the length of the array is equal to strlen-1), that it prints something before the bounds of the array.
user406009
Can't spot any obvious problems. You might want to make a smaller example of the broken functionality.
user406009
20:34
Also, you probably shouldn't use strlen as a variable name (as it's also the name of a function in the C standard library), but that's a style thing.
I'll change it.
Line 31 is where things go a bit weird.
But what I cannot understand is that if I print the array as it was passed (By simply passing on the string-length, and the string), it still prints it incorrectly.
@Lalaland Yeah, but who gives a shit about a function in the C standard library?
user406009
@Owatch I think your bug is quite simple. On line 8 that should be int i = 0
Oh ffs..
user406009
(Well, line 8 from your paste)
20:39
Yes, I see.
It's from a modification earlier. Way earlier, hours earlier.
I've been fiddling with the bounds for a while now, that was the cause of it all.....
Thanks so much.
user406009
Another thing to be careful is that your strings are not null terminated.
user406009
So if you call puts or printf with %s it won't work.
Right, I should remember to do that....
you should use a language that's not shit instead
20:42
:<
Wide?
user406009
@Owatch In all seriousness, I would recommend C++ over C.
@TonyTheLion busy doing other things. Counts
user406009
std::string is much better than c strings.
20:44
Well, I don't have a specific need to use C++ at the moment...
user406009
@Owatch Wide was an inside joke for this chat. It's a language Puppy wrote.
@Owatch You have a need to use C++ since you're shitting around failing to null terminate C strings.
I think something similar occurred in the Python chatroom, but it was called Brassica Prime
After Runescape's god of cabbages...
@Puppy They'll terminate when I want them to.
lol yeah right
everything is under control
I promise
:>
20:47
Have you had a look at the mess you are persuading us to perceive as a question? — cad 33 mins ago
ow
user406009
Someone should publish a guide on asking questions.
user406009
People don't seem to understand that having a minimal, broken example is critical.
@Lalaland No one would read it
Think SO is just getting more popular, bringing in a lot more impatient guests.
I had this weird realisation
several years ago I've been creating simple hobby projects, and now I'm just complaining about everything
20:51
u r katt
horibel disiz
youl'l die in 3 yrs
@milleniumbug You're becoming old, jaded and bitter
> Dogs are just firm cats.
Bought more tea.
I'll never run out now.
man why is the linux display stack so crappy
I cant even resize a window smoothly
makes everything so difficult to test... is it laggy because of something im doing or because the display stack is a buggy mess

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