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00:01
Hey, my testsuite seems to pass again even though it's even more fucked up than before.
Did you insert // virgin sacrifices?
@sehe haha, I just confirmed locally with a bigger file
2 kb worth of movbs
are you still convinced GCC is doing this for rational reasons :)
quality compiler
@sehe nope
I'm $0.02 richer though
@sehe I don't want to sacrifice myself :(
@sehe No idea. We'll see what clang thinks of that.
Or maybe that was for @orlp...
00:04
@orlp no. lemme show you
Nowadays minimum currency exchanged is $0.05, so $0.02 is likely to be run down ...
@Morwenn it wasn't
@chmod711telkitty run down?
that's fucking brutal
to 0
yeah, I know!
@orlp sry. got distracted by the cat (needs food sometimes)
00:13
@sehe aww
I demand kitty pictures
Here I was (after painstakenly calculating 705 :)) http://goo.gl/Q1u8uk
See. It calls memcpy. Do not collect $0.02 (in fact, I do)
either way, you can go to bed :)
no need to stay up for my distractions
@orlp browser the livestreams. It's featured 2x now I think :)
@sehe it depends, the bet was ambiguous :P
I can't argue with broken code generation being broken. But GCC /intends/ to go to RAM, like clang does. It only fails to do so because it simply fails
00:15
I was thinking literals passed to to_array
@chmod711telkitty noooo
cat has reached end of life
That's sad :(
@orlp Well that /clearly/ wasn't the topic, because we established that was DUMB long ago:
34 mins ago, by sehe
@orlp it's doing the element-by-element initialization from literals... DUMB
And I proved that the DUMBness was triggered by the pack expansion here:
32 mins ago, by sehe
> mov DWORD PTR [rsp+8], 6581362
movabs rax, 8031924123371070824
Of course when I state "both compilers will go to RAM for much larger literals" I am not talking about the degenerate case where it's already shown to be failing it's optimization passes
@sehe also
you're a programmer, harry
don't painstakingly count 705 :P
00:20
wow. I had no idea.
@sehe sarcasm?
Ell
Ell
ofc
god. no. why do you think that
it's really baffling that you think that.
@sehe meanie
Of course "painstakenly" involved typing echo $((4*4*4*11+1)) into my shell
00:23
@sehe pleb
pfft. who's the meanie
doesn't even run a Python calculator in a dedicated terminal :P
@orlp to be even more clear: I tend to forget that we can do loops in constexpr things in c++14. I don't usually c++14
you're a wizard, Harry. (Harry faces camera) "Hear that mom? I'm a freaking Wizard!"said Harry with a tone of EXCITEMENT!
@sehe tbh, I wrote the recursive version first
but that was too deep
00:25
:D
so I figured, might as well aboose C++14
g++ passes again, clang++ still fails with 1200 lines of errors. It feels like it's not even trying :(
@Morwenn -fmax-errors=1
not recommended for big builds
Still 200 lines.
what the the hell are you doing
00:32
HEAVY BLACK MAGIC WIZARDRY!
@Morwenn that's racist
Ell
Ell
@Morwenn why might your thing be useless if clang is right?
I cba to reply to the correct message :P
@Ell Because at the time of the message, I wasn't sure there was a fix. Now it seems that there is a fix but still...
WTF? Twitter is temporarily censoring certain politically-sensitive tweets in order to quietly suppress them? http://members.efn.org/~paulmd/OwnWork/AdventuresinCensorship.pdf
Well, at least I managed to set up Travis and to fix some errors. It was not a useless day.
00:35
I do that mis-copy all the time
Hi I'm looking for Robert McRobert
If McChicken is a chicken burger, ranch McBeef is a beef burger, what is McRobert?
@sehe why?
@GregorMcGregor Have you tried Jean McJean?
I've heard he's miserable.
Ell
Ell
00:50
@chmod711telkitty a robot burger
What the White House does ripples round the world. I am in NYC, working. Not as a U.S. Citizen. I'm a Resident Alien (no jokes) of the USA.
Ah, yeah, resident alien is the most accessible path to permanent residence. Surprised Captain Picard is still one.
is that what area 51 is for? resident aliens?
@ElimGarak idgi
00:54
@GregorMcGregor He's talking about immigration. There is special dispensation for amazing people in theory, but as you can see, Patrick Stewart is after many decades still a resident alien. Basically, you can live and die in the United States, but you're not a US citizen. Basically, you're second class.
I have no idea who Patrick Stewart is
Ell
Ell
@ElimGarak haha that's kinda meta
ah that guy
00:56
Dammit, Gregor, you're making it hard for me to love you
star trek is srs bns
I'm tired of things not cimpoling, I'm going to sleep.
y'all a bunch o' trekfags
Have some love ♥
Series biz?
00:58
I can't breathe xd
@chmod711telkitty serious business
@Morwenn nn ♡
I know, tart :p
@jaggedSpire u srs
@ElimGarak hehehe read that again
01:00
@nick 4 srs
k den
@nick sx (it means thanks).
@Morwenn nite
best thanks ever
Ell
Ell
Hmm
01:01
Cicada, u sir, have a dirty mind! 💋
@Morwenn night
Ell
Ell
do I have time to implement this decimal rooting function
Input routing, we meet again. You got fat.
Hello friends.
I just walked into the "In C++ should I pass std::string by const& or by value to functions"
I can't tell whether I should rely on std::move to do cheap pass by value or whether I should just use const&
do you want to make a copy in the function
01:09
I do not
I'm just implementing split()
my cut intuition was "a string is small; a pointer, a length some other stuff; it should be cheap to copy as it's not a deep copy..."
s/cut/gut/
Ell
Ell
@Raynos pass by value :)
they are your desired semantics
I went looking on the internet and it told me that its expensive and may or may not do a deep copy
Ell
Ell
if you know it's a hotspot by profiling, I guess try const fref
It all depends on whether your function or any of its callees make a copy of the string
well I'm passing it into stringstream and want to verify that stringstream doesnt copy it
> Constructs a stringstream object with a copy of str as content.
I guess my more general question is that things like std::string and std::vector have non-trivial Copy constructors
How do I build a heuristic for whether methods & functions should take string & vector by value or by const ref ?
I don't really care about performance; I'll find performance issues in a real profiler. I just care about writing hygienic & consistent C++11
01:14
"I don't care about performance" then take by value
C++14 is where the party is at. C++17 is where the party goes next, bby.
aww Elim <3
I'm still curious when C++ compiler will do a shallow or deep copy when calling functions
Tomelim Garak'tal
It's good for me to understand how the std::string copy constructor works
01:15
No such thing as a shallow copy for string
It's either you move or you deep copy
What about std::vector
is that also move or deep copy ?
but when i use a c style pointer or c style char* it's always move or shallow copy ?
Ahh thanks a lot! Works like a charm with powershell! Didn't know that PowerShell also can run bash =) — freeDom- 2 mins ago
WTH
I don't understand the question
01:17
@sehe What the hell, I am free.
2 mins ago, by Gregor McGregor
No such thing as a shallow copy for string
I'm confused that calling a function with a std::string by value copies the full string.
@ElimGarak what does that mean?
If I call a function with a char* it doesn't copy a string.
01:17
@sehe Free Dom! Free Dom! freeDom-... Geddit.
...
Yeah. Free means "drunk"
Are move semantics a thing thats new to C++11 ?
Yesh. And it's unrelated. You can't move from a pointer.
@Raynos Yeah by default myFunction(thing) with thing a std::string will copy the string which is bad. But myFunction(std::move(thing)) will not.
You can use std::string_view in the future
01:19
But just to understand some more
That being said move semantics are here only to prevent redundant copies
If you were going to make a copy anyway move semantics are not gonna help
If I have a struct Foo { public: std::string bar }
@Raynos Don't be confused. Value semantics are a thing.
They just make the responsibilities cleaner
and pass an instance of Foo by value to a function
does it also do a deep copy ?
01:19
yes
What else
Of course.
Well I assumed that std::string stored the actual string somewhere in the heap
rather then in the stack in the struct Foo
Yeah, this is not a pleb language. :P
sizeof(std::string) is a fixed size.
01:20
ugh, sizeof with () :D
Yes so far so good
@Raynos ...usually, anyway.
std string is 3 pointars in most implementations
Is struct Foo { public: std::string *bar } a good idea to avoid deep copies ?
or should I just const Foo& my function parameters
that's completely different
01:21
Uhm, you may want to pick up a book. There, Gregor posted a linkie.
McGre , I look at the new guy, I thought it was you in real life.
I think my confusion is mostly "I can just replace char* with std::string"
std::string is your lord savior, not a replacement. :P
@GregorMcGregor Many (perhaps most) recent implementations include at least a small buffer to hold a short string (e.g., up to 20 characters).
01:22
@JerryCoffin AFAIK they reuse the underlying pointer storage at no extra cost (except 1 bit to indicate whether the string is using SSO or not)
So to understand some more
the reason std::string is a deep copy is because of how it's Copy constructor is implemented
Ell
Ell
yah
are you cinch
which explains why copying it is more expensive the memcpy()
Ell
Ell
@Raynos wat no
01:24
@GregorMcGregor Yes, 3 pointars.
@GregorMcGregor Some may. At least a few definitely do not.
Ell
Ell
@Raynos why would that explain that?
Thank you for the answer, Gregor :) But if release of resources is automatically done by GPU drivers after application ends, why increase the work-load of the programmer(one more thing to remember and do) and length of code(which means harder to write and debug) by suggesting de-allocation as a good practice? — Buzz 2 days ago
> suggesting de-allocation as a good practice
@Raynos Wow, you're greener than solar energy.
A GOOD PRACTICE
Ell
Ell
01:25
@GregorMcGregor lol that's bare hilare
@Ell people are saying that it's 3 pointers; so a straight up copy of a std::string should be shallow.
Is there a different c function that does a literal memcpy of the value as per sizeof()
Google OWNERSHIP
@JerryCoffin I don't know, MSVC, Clang and GCC's implementation do that. Ofc some others may do it differently.
Ell
Ell
@Raynos No that isn't what you're suggesting
@Raynos I've never see any where it was three pointers. It's typically one pointer and two size_t's.
Ell
Ell
01:26
> 'deep' copy with std::string's copy ctore is more expensive than 'deep' copy with malloc becase <insert your explanation here>
@JerryCoffin Probably just referencing size, not literally.
"What are you looking at?"
Exactly, it is:
"I don't know, but it talks."
struct __long
    {
        pointer   __data_;
        size_type __size_;
        size_type __cap_;
    };
Or
struct __long
    {
        size_type __cap_;
        size_type __size_;
        pointer   __data_;
    };
Depending on layout.
01:30
@Ell @GregorMcGregor thanks for explanations. I understand now
(he doesn't really understand)
I dont really understand.
Ell
Ell
it's sleepy time for me
night guise
@jaggedSpire D'awwww :3 (I had not seen it, i mostly browse r/funny, r/aww and 9gag)
01:36
@Borgleader You should browse OGL code more, less adorable stuffs :P
my alarm clock didn't go off today because it lost my wifi credentials seriously
@ElimGarak But reading OGL code takes willpower, which i havent got much of ;)
I am getting a pure virtual call in a destructor it doesn't make sense ;_;
@sehe hahahaha rekt
@Borgleader :)
01:37
@sehe Cujo is there to help :P
@GregorMcGregor select is broken
@sehe were you not there when Griwes posted this and Bartek went all Bartek?
Bartek intensified
@Raynos also, "straight up" copy is not what you think it is. That's in C. In C++ a straight up copy calls the copy constructor
@GregorMcGregor I was not here
I suspected as much.
Why is the vtable full of pure calls o.O
01:38
@Raynos Don't suspect. Read :)
@BartekBanachewicz teeeeeeheeeee
@sehe gotobed.jpg
and you
@sehe actually it doesn't mention it in en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/byte/memcpy assuming I do memcpy(&dest, &str, sizeof str)
01:41
> The z-coordinate change for a scroll wheel, mouse-move, or mouse-drag event. (read-only)
2 hours ago, by sehe
have fun! I'm out
> This value is typically 0.0.
Intensely useful, Apple.
> mouse drag-event
know the difference
Although it looks like the documentation says that its undefined behaviour because not TriviallyCopyable
just me or is imgur slow/inaccessible?
01:43
@GregorMcGregor Wait, question? It's when you push down a button and move (LMB, naturally)
no it was a far fetched pun
mouse drift-event
@GregorMcGregor I know that feel
@nick Dude you're never gonna believe this: I found a blank PBT set for $20.
@orlp Fine for me.
Time for sleeps. Hugs and kisses. <3
01:49
@Raynos assuming you do that you fuck with the library and you're not doing c++
@Raynos now you're reading the right stuff
Yeah, I read an article about lifetimes and destructors and dont do that (tm).
Just read a good book and do everyone a favor. Coming from JavaScript, you'll probably need a brain wipe as well.
@Raynos +1 thanks for actually going out and learning! We don't see that every day. Really. Huge kudos for that.
And now, sleep for me :)
Night all
@sehe night
01:52
@sehe night
@GregorMcGregor I haven't re-checked extremely recently to say with certainty about the current version, but if MSVC does so, it's quite a recent change. The last time looked at gcc it definitely didn't either (but that was looking at 4.x, which still had a reference-counted implementation with no attempt at SSO at all).
@ElimGarak on the topic of books. I could use a book that has a chapter on "zero memory allocation at runtime". I'm using the libuv event loop and spinning my wheels on fixed size memory allocation software patterns.
Hey guys.
Gosh. The close-voting crowd really needs to lighten up. This question is interesting and well posed. +1 — sehe 1 min ago
There is really something in the air that makes most any question I ever treat get at least 1 closevote.
It appears that people are just close-voting stuff they don't know about. "I don't know that shit, bad question"?
(I was going)
That’s been going on for a long time. Also see: DeadMG.
01:59
I see a marked increase in "my tags"
@JerryCoffin Yeah it's something fairly recent for GCC (version 5, about a year ago now). For MSVC though, if I'm not mistaken it's been there at least since 2010.
But then again, I might be suffering from noise because I've also started doing some non-boost answering again. That has been a very long time.
@ElimGarak New cast member in season 10 of Criminal Minds :3
I just realized that work stealing with singly-linked work lists is cons piracy.
rofl
02:27
@Borgleader Nice
Oh wow bug solved
very silly
Why am I always plonked by boring ppl, this is awesome 💗💞💓💘❤️💕✨
@Nooble I can't spend less than 1 salary per keycap, sorry
@nick Hehe.
It's a white set though.
I don't like blacks either.
I kinda like a dark gray.
DAE cd instead of ssh sometimes??????
inb4 Luc "no. you're the weird one".
02:41
Aren't those two completely different?
ofc but sometimes I do cd somehost
"everything is a file therefore I should be able to cd into a remote host" says my brain
probably
Oh.
@Borgleader who ya' gonna call?
@GregorMcGregor you are, weirdo
02:46
@Nooble taken out of context, this is an unfortunate quote
but yeah I appreciate dark gray keys
Yeah I thought he meant "does anyone else use cd as an alternative to ssh????".
@jaggedSpire My bed, cuz im off to sleep :P
@nick I like my blacks doubleshot.
@Borgleader Have a good night
@Borgleader have an OK night
02:48
@Borgleader Have an unsatisfactory night.
Why are DSLRs so expensive ;c
@Nooble optics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@jaggedSpire thanks
@nick thanks
@Nooble dick :P
hehe
@Borgleader good night
Don't leave us Borgleader!
♫ When you're gone, when you're gone! We're gonna miss you when you're gone... ♫
03:04
@Nooble Cost depends heavily upon sensor size. DSLRs have big sensors.
@JerryCoffin Are image sensors that expensive to make?
@Nooble Fairly expensive, anyway. The cost of most chips has dropped primarily because with smaller fabrication geometry, they can make the chip as a whole smaller. A full frame sensor (for example) stays the same size, so its price doesn't drop much/quickly like other chips.
@JerryCoffin isn't the prime advantage of smaller geometry that you get more chips per wafer?
@orlp You get more chips per wafer, and a higher percentage of them are good. Most models assume the cost is roughly proportional to the cube of the chip area (and this seems to fit fairly well with real pricing).
I also find it funny that some chips have fallbacks built-in
03:19
@orlp Almost everything with fungible pieces (especially RAM) does.
e.g. if 10% of the modules fail on your wafer, and you duplicate them for every chip, then you can reduce your failure rate from 10% to ~1%
@orlp Over-provisioning is quite common.
@Nooble not quite what I meant
over-provisioning protects against fails during the lifetime of the product
I'm talking about duplication of whole parts of the circuit of a (CPU) chip
and if one is faulty, the other does the work
(to protect againt faults during manufacturing, not lifetime failures)
Oh.
04:21
69
Q: Answer-stealing user with bad attitude

Steyn van EsveldThis is about position 2 divs next to each other. There's this guy who downvotes every single answer on this question, then looked at my comment containing a jsFiddle. He then decided it was perfectly fine to copy it into his own answer. When I said something about it, he quickly deleted the an...

wow the guy got 1 year suspension
srs bsns
I need to sleep but homework.
Send help.
FYI, the user has actually been suspended for an entire year now. I actually caught him possibly committing voting fraud on the answer in question by possibly having a sock puppet account voting up his answer immediately after he undeleted it. He's also requested that his account be deleted too though, so I doubt we'll be seeing much of him in the near future. Oh yeah, I also found that 15 of his answers were plagiarized from other sources, and I haven't even finished looking through them all yet. — Bob 16 hours ago
@GregorMcGregor lol
@Nooble clearly, the solution is to do your homework earlie--cracks up
I sure didn't do my homework ASAP in high school
04:32
@jaggedSpire Oh but why wouldn't you?! It's so much fun!
@Nooble yes that is definitely the word I would use to describe essay writing.
05:07
@CatPlusPlus I’m starting to like zsh+omz but at the same time vi mode is awful to set up, I’m running into a myriad of defects
@jaggedSpire I finished homework! Night night.
nightnightnight
@Nooble night
> The building is very lovely and the neighborhood comprises of very wonderful people.There are no disturbances in the apartment and you will surely have a peaceful rest whenever you want to considering the fact that the environment encourages such when necessary.
how to interpret
@GregorMcGregor Lots of dead people in the walls.
If you make too much noise, you get stuffed in the walls.
OTOH it's in the nightclubs street so idk
05:22
People tend to say the opposite when trying to promote things ... Possibly because they are constantly reminded of those negative sides when thinking about those things. Just read it & think the opposite, you will get it right!
> The building sucks and the neighborhood comprises of highly dangerous psychopaths. There are loud construction work noises all around and you will surely bang your head against the wall shortly after moving in considering the fact that the environment encourages such when necessary.
You are not thinking of moving in there, are you?
We will be praying for your health & safety after you have moved into a noisy building full of nasty people in which you will hear random loud noises at all hours.
Morning.
@Borgleader lol, nice!
05:49
Morning.
Ell
Ell
06:13
awake already again
how awful :V
Ell
Ell
06:41
what to have for breakfast
Ell
Ell
neither sound good
That's offensive
@Ell cmon
everyone loves a good cock
06:50
@sehe I see a spam mail explosion after creating the livecoding account.
Ell
Ell
I'll have a curry for brekky
@Ell ah, a classic
curry & cock
mehning
hi @chmod711telkitty

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