« first day (1803 days earlier)      last day (3136 days later) » 

8:00 PM
gaaaaaargh
 
Shootin' Koalas, OTOH...
 
@StackedCrooked Can we has something less ancient than GHC 7.4.1 on Coliru? :(
 
alright.
now I live in the state of "Fuck you, it's a unitary authority".
 
@BartekBanachewicz Coliru isn't pure enough to handle newer versions.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz GCC 5.2.0.
 
8:02 PM
Illegal instance declaration for ‘Coercible a SomeClassIsh’
      The class is abstract, manual instances are not permitted.
what in the actual fuck
 
git rekt
 
I mean I get why, but abstract class
 
@BartekBanachewicz The class is abstract, so manual instances are not permitted.
 
the fuck does that even mean
how do you make a class abstract
 
@ThePhD oooh, I should add that to git, too
 
user1804599
8:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Built into compiler. Like Typeable.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What language?
 
@BartekBanachewicz By having at least one function marked as virtual therein
 
@elyse oh ok
@набиячлевэлиь bullshit
 
user1804599
Only the compiler can create instances of it.
 
@Nooble the one and only
@elyse I see.
 
8:04 PM
Or by marking the class with abstract
 
user1804599
Hence manual instances are not permitted. :P
 
nearly as good as the village of lickmyorangeballshalfling
 
yeah
@набиячлевэлиь not standard.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell it is.
 
I want to iterate over a certain range of a list without making a copy with list[1:x]
How do?
 
8:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz In Java it is
 
I know I can loop over a range and then index into the list...
... Maybe I'll do that instead.
 
@набиячлевэлиь #loljava
 
@sehe hopefully there's no video :P I'm now a very sloppy player
 
@ThePhD iterate over a range()
 
user1804599
Implementing the COBOL ALTER statement in my compiler will be fun.
 
8:05 PM
"fun"
 
grawrgfgasgasgfhagsf
 
@набиячлевэлиь for li in range(1, 12): l = data[li]
Good enough for me.
 
the existential example was in the original haskell post
i was looking for the solution for the three fucking months
and it was right there.
 
Your Google-fu is sub-par
 
What's the difference between inheritance and virtual inheritance? I mean, I've read some articles that say it solves diamond problem, but I don't have any intuition as to why the intermediate classes have inherit virtually and not the bottom-most one...
 
user1804599
8:07 PM
foo.
    ALTER bar TO PROCEED TO baz.
    GO TO bar.
bar.
    GO TO qux.
qux.
    DISPLAY "A"
baz.
    DISPLAY "B"
 
user1804599
output: "B"
 
@socumbersome With virtual inheritance, only one virtual base is instantiated
 
@BartekBanachewicz In C++, by having at least on pure virtual function (e.g., virtual void f() = 0;). In this case, you can't create an instance of that class. You have to derive classes, and override the pure virtuals to get a class in which every pure virtual has been overridden before you can create an instance.
 
@набиячлевэлиь he gets that part
 
I've never done virtual inheritance.
It sounds like a pain.
 
8:08 PM
@ThePhD Worse than meth
 
@ThePhD :0
 
it's really not that bad at all
 
@набиячлевэлиь This means nothing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So you want to write to multiple sockets
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, thanks, but I guess I'm not that bad at C++ :P. I was asking about Haskell type classes (where being abstract kind of makes less sense). By the way, you're not here as much as you used to, eh?
 
Ell
8:08 PM
I'm supposed to dress 90s
I have no frickin idea what 90s clothes are like
why would they do this
 
I wouldn't know how to dress 2010s
 
@Nooble "Nothing" is exactly how much I feel of my face after doing virtual inheritance
 
@CatPlusPlus I was thinking about a data model interface to the db. No sockets.
 
Hm, so maybe to simplify things. Say I have class A and class B : virtual public A { ... } . Now, how is B different from class B' : public A { ... } ?
 
@socumbersome Because if the intermediate classes didn't inherit virtually, they'd each contain an instance of the base, and the most derived wouldn't be able to do much to get only one base object.
 
8:09 PM
@socumbersome For one level, none
 
@Ell that makes me desperately sad, because it's made me realise that when I was at university, the brief was 80s
 
@JerryCoffin how about actually seeing two bases and discarding one?
 
@Ell #Only90sKidsWillGetThis
 
Wait
Virtual inheritance prevents multiple bases of the same type from being created?
 
user1804599
Virtual inheritance is one of the delights of C++.
 
8:10 PM
@ThePhD yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz I was a bit surprised at the notion that you wouldn't have already known that. Yeah, especially since school started, I have little time left to chat.
 
Ell
I was a 90s toddler
 
@Ell Drink самогон instead
 
@JerryCoffin You've turned into me.
Nooble Coffin.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Would be fairly difficult, to put it mildly.
 
8:11 PM
#JerryNooble2016
I ship it
So should you
 
@Ell I'm a 00s toddler.
 
@Nooble asian-man-yelling-gay.gif
 
@JerryCoffin mmm. I'll leave thinking about it for some other occasion.
 
@Nooble Woah
 
I guess Virtual Inheritance would be useful ish...
But it sounds like a pain.
 
8:12 PM
why?
 
Hmm, if one level is to little to observe the difference, then... say I have some huge complex DAG representing inheritance hierarchy and some node X inherits virtually from Y1, ..., YN. Does it affect only those classes that are descendants of X?
 
@Ell I was an 80s toddler
 
@BartekBanachewicz I just remember fixing those IOStream bugs and being very, very sad..
 
@socumbersome if you have a huge complex DAG representing inheritance hierarchy, then there's your problem.
 
8:13 PM
@ThePhD You're not alone (though I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure most of the arguments against it are terribly convincing).
 
lmao it works
this haskell stuff is ezpz
 
@AlexM. :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, but I want to understand it from theory.
 
@AlexM. starring for future generations
 
I implemented this encoding
Ascii85, also called Base85, is a form of binary-to-text encoding developed by Paul E. Rutter for the btoa utility. By using five ASCII characters to represent four bytes of binary data (making the encoded size ¹⁄₄ larger than the original, assuming eight bits per ASCII character), it is more efficient than uuencode or Base64, which use four characters to represent three bytes of data (¹⁄₃ increase, assuming eight bits per ASCII character). Its main modern use is in Adobe's PostScript and Portable Document Format file formats. == Basic idea == The basic need for a binary-to-text encoding comes...
now to decode
 
8:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Wasn't hard to guess you were going to be the one that starred that
 
@BartekBanachewicz Liar! You're starring it for next week (or maybe tomorrow) when he posts something about how his brain hurts because Haskell has twisted it like a noodle...
 
ezpz?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Client interface really isn't very important when you're designing a protocol
 
@JerryCoffin hahaha
@Mr.kbok easy-peasy
 
8:16 PM
And continuing contrived example -- class Z that is an ancestor of Yi and Yj will be coalesced into one "thing" in every X?
 
I still don't know what you're hoping to achieve by throwing in database to the mix, whatever database would that be
 
@JerryCoffin hahahahaha
 
@CatPlusPlus sqlite
 
Databases are typically designed for persistent data and syncing them up is a giant minefield of research
 
@CatPlusPlus My first ideas were Redis and Cassandra
 
8:18 PM
Hahaha no
 
@socumbersome Assuming something like class Z{}; class Yi : virtual public Z{}; class Yj : virtual public Z{}; class X : public Yi, public Yj{};, then yes--each X contains one and only one instance of Z.
 
Clustering Redis is fairly easy
 
Clustering Redis is nigh impossible
Existing solutions are either broken or badly broken
 
Why not Cassandra, then?
 
Creating a clusterfuck with Redis is easiest of all!
 
8:19 PM
What do you want to do with Cassandra?
Cassandra is designed to run on dozens of nodes each containing shitload of memory
 
Pop up an instance for every multiplayer client and sync the clients via database operations
 
Hahaha no
It's ring storage, nodes don't replicate the entire data set between each other
 
@CatPlusPlus that's what I think vOv. I'm looking for some actual factual data to back it up.
 
Plus it takes someone really experienced with distributed systems to operate one of those
It's not "start and forget"
 
@CatPlusPlus I was thinking about stuff like partitioning the data on a spatial index
so that the players close to each-other in game would automagically have the world parts
 
8:20 PM
@TonyTheLion Chewing eucalyptus, like tobacco but better.
 
@CatPlusPlus That's why I'm asking you, duh.
 
@Nooble :)
 
Are you making an MMO
 
Maybe. But I thought it could work for Factorio-scale as well
 
This shit is hard and complex and a full-time job to do
 
8:21 PM
it's fun to research without any commitments
 
It's absolute overkill to even think about with the meagre amount of state that's replicated in games
 
@JerryCoffin - ok, thanks. And if Yi inherits virtually but Yj inherits (normally)?
 
@Nooble Eucalyptus: better than getting your leg hacked off with no anesthetic.
@socumbersome Then you'll have two instances of the base class (but they'll be initialized differently from each other).
 
@CatPlusPlus What if I crafted a hand-made synch mechanism for some lightweight DB? To, again, keep the game logic code (talking to the DB) and networking (syncing clients together) separate?
I know I'm kinda picking the tech before the problems.
 
Talking to the DB and networking can't be separate
 
8:23 PM
well one part of the code would talk to the DB as if had the whole copy of game world. The other would actually sync with other people
 
Application needs to be able to deal with partitions and stale state
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then you'd end up with either broken synchronization or a life spent on your hand-made synch mechanism (or, most likely, both).
 
So generally, having k classes that inherit virtually and f classes that inherit normally, we would end up with f + 1 instances of Z?
 
The best way is to not deal with any of this, and just use a client-server architecture
 
That's why I thought about using a ready-made distributed DB. I guess it's way more complex than I anticipated.
 
user3790646
8:24 PM
C++ is love. C++ is life.
 
@socumbersome Yeah, pretty much.
 
Saving on server power/bandwidth with P2P is really not worth it
 
@CatPlusPlus Why did Factorio choose P2P then, though?
 
appeal to authority again
 
idk, they had some bullshit excuse about servers not being able to handle the amount of state but that's laughable
 
8:25 PM
yeah I can hardly imagine a 30MB map killing any 2000+ server
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'd guess the real reason is basically "because they wanted to".
 
@JerryCoffin - ok, makes sense, thanks a lot! Now I'm ready to look into gcc's way of doing that (I hope :D)
 
It's really not worth to start with a more complicated architecture
 
"start"?
 
Esp when you don't even know why you might need it
 
8:26 PM
oh, ok.
 
YAGNI
Simple is better
etc
 
kiss
 
but then again, a lot of games rewrite simple DB functionality
 
but who am I kissing?
more appeal to authority
 
your mum
 
8:27 PM
There's a lot of room to optimise in direct C/S architectures that don't require solving consensus problems
 
where, guess what, an actual DB would do just fine
@CatPlusPlus heh
Fine, fine, I give up. I'll use sockets like an animal.
 
@Puppy elyse
 
If you really want to have a database that's replicated between game clients then you need to think what properties you want from it
No, "automagically does everything I want" is not that
 
@CatPlusPlus :(
I guess the main question to answer is consistency vs latency
that's what all the papers hint at
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, more or less. At least that's one of the first big questions.
 
8:30 PM
oh and BTW there's also BitTorrent which robot mentioned
 
what about it?
 
hint: it's used as a protocol to share data across p2p meshes
 
It's not a database
 
yeah but not in any remotely real-time way
 
@Puppy Can be used/treated as basically a way to distribute files (if not exactly databases).
 
8:31 PM
How you transfer data between clients is one level below what you need to solve
 
yeah, your momma sat on it
 
You need to think how you deal with consistency and what's your failure modes in case of partitions
 
you're a fairure mode
 
@CatPlusPlus mmm.
I need to educate myself more about it.
 
8:33 PM
 
I'm getting more interested in DBs those days.
 
@melak47 Started working on teh rendering tech blog you suggested yesterday. Going to be lots of pics and shit. And pretty equations, integrated a equation renderer that takes classic tex math as inputz.
 
Live in Montreal
 
@EtiennedeMartel ...
 
Did it drove into cement or did they specifically put cement around it
 
8:34 PM
^
 
It's weird, really.
 
Or asphalt whatever
I don't know materials
 
can be concrete or asphalt
 
It's concrete.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd bet on concrete, not asphalt.
 
8:36 PM
Asphalt isn't applied like that here.
 
It is concrete, asphalt is finer & darker. And it smells.
 
Much like your mom
 
hm I have a mac perhaps I could actually install Jekyll
 
Oh, snap!
 
hmm
I'd rather use React than a template system
 
8:38 PM
Terrible idea
 
Seriously, there are spiders everywhere in my house. I should do something about it...
 
Burn it down
 
Cat, you use terrible for everything, so I suggest implementing levels of terrible.
 
installing Jekyll or using React?
 
Is having class constraints in existentials considered equally bad to having class constraints in data in general?
 
8:39 PM
sounds like COM
 
@Puppy Use the "rectal template system" (aka PHP).
 
Examples I've found put them there.
oh hmm you need that constraint because you can't apply it later
nevermind
 
Oh my god my eyes
I am now blind
From all the neon pink
 
@ElimGarak its too bright
 
8:42 PM
@ElimGarak Your name is too hard to say
 
@ElimGarak wait
how the fuck are you Domagoj
 
@ElimGarak Depends on your target audience. If you're after the 10-13 year-old girls, you've nailed it.
 
Ahahah, damn it. I wanted a unique color scheme. :(
 
@BartekBanachewicz He's clearly Domagoj.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Way to pay attention
 
8:43 PM
for fucks sake
 
Welcome to 4 weeks ago
Or more
 
I was pretty sure the real Domagoj was dead for the last few years after being shot or something
 
I don't actually know
I have no sense of time
 
Ran over by a bus, according to @EtiennedeMartel
 
@BartekBanachewicz Me too
 
8:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz What
 
I knew that @ElimGarak's examples were a bit too freaking good for a random lounger
 
except as soon as Elim Garak turned up it took about 5 seconds to realize the truth
and then about 24 hours to decide that I wished to speak it instead of just respect his privacy, because it's the internet.
 
If by 5 seconds you mean 3 days and him actually referring to Kyrostat
Which is not dead
4
 
sehe and cicada kind of smelled it first. sehe wouldn't let it go, tho. :D
 
Or is it? dramatic music
 
8:45 PM
if Domagoj is alive I can imagine Kyrostat alive as well
 
nah
that shit was toast from the moment we conceived of it.
it just became more apparent after he got hit by a bus
 
We should make an MMO where you can start quests and never finish them.
 
@ElimGarak have a late "welcome back" then.
@ElimGarak lol
 
@ElimGarak You mean MMO, but more boring?
 
You could farm mobs but the exp bar could grow with your exp i.e. you'd never level up
 
8:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz What? I don't remember this rumor?
 
It's his headcanon
 
@TonyTheLion Well, years back, there was quite a bit of ruckus in Croatia, murder wise.
 
yea but that wasn't specifically about you being dead
 
we just couldn't think of any other reason why you'd leave us
and therefore decided that you were a corpse.
 
Well, that hasn't really changed. In the time I was away, a guy broke his girlfriend's vagina and effectively disemboweled her with that thing you use to make whipped cream from cream.
 
8:48 PM
wtf you can break a vagina?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Your experience grows linearly, but the bar would grow exponentially, so the more you play, the less experienced you look. Then it'd match real life... :-)
 
yea how do you break a vagina?
important questions ^
 
Give it to rightfold
 
Whoa. Boost erasure seems pretty nifty. I'd only looked into it casually before (and decided to keep it real). This took me a while to figure out:
0
A: Boost type_erasure any with const member function

seheYou need to specify the const-ness in the concept like this: using AnyTest = any<mpl::vector< copy_constructible<>, has_test<int(double), const _self>, relaxed> >; Found on the documentation page "Basic Usage" Live On Coliru // ht...

 
@elyse please confirm
 
8:50 PM
 
@ElimGarak oh god
 
Use your imagination. And gorenje probably produced the instrument used.
 
user1804599
@набиячлевэлиь ehh?
 
But. Kudos that they actually designed it well enough that it copes. I think it will even cope with void T::something()&& members
 
@sehe for simple use cases it's quite handy indeed
 
8:50 PM
@ElimGarak oh christ
 
@elyse Katt's message up
 
However compiler errors are superhorrible when they occur
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion the same way you break a penis
 
@TonyTheLion The excuse was: drunk
Basically, she no longer has what you'd classify as a vagina.
 
I can withstand a lot of gore but just the mental image of that
 
8:51 PM
I have something on boost.te in my virtual concepts draft
 
@elyse well alright then, I'm no expert in this area, but I'll take your expertise here. :P
 
@AndyProwl yeah. I was a bit enticed by samples like
void append_many(any<has_push_back<void(int)>, _self&> container) {
    for(int i = 0; i < 10; ++i)
        container.push_back(i);
}
 
Yeah that's nice
 
> _self&>
what does that mean?
 
user1804599
 
@TonyTheLion a reference to type _self
 
a reference to the greater than operator?
 
@TonyTheLion The docs are linked to in my answer ... :S
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion > is end of template argument list
 
8:52 PM
It closes the Teplate brace
 
ohlol
 
Counting braces is hard
 
I'm terrible at C++
 
ITT Tony carn't into template argument lists
 
ITT observant people
 
8:53 PM
Most Tony Parse
 
Alcohol does that to you
 
@CatPlusPlus easier than counting cards.
And definitely more legal. Defintely. Definitely.
 
@elyse is that gore?
 
user1804599
No.
 
8:54 PM
@TonyTheLion Not to me. Not nearly often enough, anyway!
 
I've spent an hour and instead of writing about the trick, I wrote a bad existential tutorial. Suck. cc @AndyProwl
 
user1804599
This is:
 
user1804599
 
@JerryCoffin lel. Keep it coming
@elyse That's botox
 
@BartekBanachewicz You could say you have an... existential crisis
 
user1804599
8:54 PM
AFAIK Al Gore lacks a vagina.
 
A side effect of doing research is actually getting smarter
 
@JerryCoffin It doesn't do it very often for me either. But I finished the beer I had in my fridge earlier tonight, so yea
 
@CatPlusPlus please not again
if you gave me a penny for every time I've heard that
 
You'd a have a penny?
 
a few at least.
TBH, though, existentials are really pretty simple
 
8:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz 'Bout three fiddy?
 
> De politie van de Amerikaanse stad Waco (Texas) heeft bij een 31-jarige dame een pistool uit haar verticale glimlach gehaald.
 
what's actually more interesting and useful are Rank-N types used with real-world contexts like state
 
Classy.
> Police in the American city Waco (Texas) has removed a pistol from a 31-year old lady's vertical smile
 
"vertical smile", heh.
 
8:56 PM
"vertical smile"?
 
you're all virgins
 
> verticale glimlach
lol
 
@Bartek link?
 
Is that what hipsters call it these days?
jeesuz
 
8:57 PM
I might find that more accessible than the trick
 
@набиячлевэлиь Nope
 
ITT @sehe is Google Translate
 
closer already
 
no, sehe just translated what it said in the dutch statement
 
8:59 PM
is "vertical smile" what kool kids call vaginas these days?
 
2 mins ago, by Tony The Lion
Is that what hipsters call it these days?
 

« first day (1803 days earlier)      last day (3136 days later) »