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11:00 PM
@JonClements why that?
 
@набиячлевэлиь so libstdc++?
 
@sehe Yeah, probably
 
@AndyProwl haven't worked that one out
 
@JonClements I have a habit of cracking jokes instead of saying thanks. Thank you! I hope the flags will be gone for a while.
Minimum 4 days... :P
 
@набиячлевэлиь It's strange that "it tries to" but fails. How can it effectively fail to getenv("TEMP")?
 
11:00 PM
@Mysticial lol
 
@JonClements I think everyone appreciates your effort
 
I've got two more accounts to delete, then I think I'm done
 
@sehe Well, despite setting both TEMP and TMP, the leading `\` stays
 
user1804599
Can you arbitrarily delete accounts?
 
@elyse Mods can delete accounts with less than X rep. I don't know what X is though.
 
11:02 PM
@elyse ?
 
user1804599
@Mysticial Oh, I see.
 
user1804599
Is it possible to undelete accounts?
 
@JonClements Maybe I'm slow. "Yes" seems like a pretty harmless answer. :-)
 
user1804599
I would love my extra 22k rep back :p
 
@sehe My call to getenv("TEMP") resolves to the correct string
 
user1804599
11:02 PM
But I think it's not reversible.
 
@набиячлевэлиь That's rubbish.
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Potential liability maybe? Some one creates a bunch of sock puppets pretending to be Sino?
 
@набиячлевэлиь So, it doesn't try :/
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin And then all the blame falls on Sino, who was innocent all along?
 
Me
 
11:04 PM
Let's all impersonate Jon Skeet on April 1st and blame all the flags on him. Oh wait...
 
@elyse I think arbitrary is a weird word to throw into the mix... we have a "huge" amount of "power" on the system, but we're trusted to not just get into power lust and throw it around left, right and centre
 
user1804599
ok
 
just because you can - doesn't mean you should
 
user1804599
C++ has that a lot.
 
user406009
That's what people claimed about Template Metaprogramming.
 
user406009
11:06 PM
And yet here we are.
 
user1804599
using namespace and new
 
@Mysticial deletions complete - I've done what I can for the mo'
 
user1804599
I'm still not sure about syntax of my programming language.
 
user1804599
I like both curly braces as well as do/end.
 
@JonClements Thank you. Though I have no clue on who the other flagger is. :(
 
user1804599
11:12 PM
> PROCEDURE (t: Tree) Insert (node: Tree);
 
Well libclang seems to shit the bed
 
user1804599
Oberon-2 looks so much like Go.
 
the moment you don't have includes found :v
I guess in a way I don't blame it
 
Oh nvm, I take that back.
 
@Mysticial you shouldn't need to - I think that's already dealt with
 
11:13 PM
@Mysticial let's see whom we won't see
 
user1804599
You can't blame C++ tools for being terrible (unless they're MSVC).
 
I think I know who it is. But I'm not gonna say.
 
When someone changes the size of a widget, I'll have to re-upload its vertices :/
 
user1804599
@Prismatic Why ":/"?
 
user1804599
Why would it be a problem?
 
user406009
11:13 PM
@Prismatic Is your GUI library for OpenGL or something?
 
Oh wow. It looks more serious than I thought. Okay, I've said enough.
 
@Lalaland what are you using templates for?
 
I feel guilty any time I do stuff that feels like a lot of work for the CPU or GPU
@Lalaland yes
 
user1804599
The rule for GUIs is that as long as it's faster than the user, it's fast enough.
 
user1804599
And I hope that uploading vertices for a GUI is faster than the user.
 
user1804599
11:14 PM
Because if it isn't then your program is really bad.
 
@Mysticial maybe one day I'll be welcome properly in the room - not have everyone yell smurf alert and what not... but I'll wait I guess... :p
 
user1804599
How often do you resize widgets per second?
 
user406009
@sehe Let's see. Generic containers. Duck typing. Maybe a SFINAE or two every now and then.
 
goal is 60fps... hope I can pull it off
 
@JonClements You're welcome here anytime. :) Though the "smurf" name is probably gonna stick for a while. Lounge culture won't change that easily.
 
11:16 PM
@JonClements smurf alert may not mean what you think, apparently. Also, who's "everyone"?
@Lalaland So. Here were are :)
 
@sehe just seems a meme
 
@elyse The thing I'm writing is a knock off of Qt's QML UI stuff. So its not a typical form based UI and its a bit more dynamic
 
At least we don't say "meta police" anymore.
 
user406009
@Prismatic How are you doing render positioning? Static position. Simple vertical or horizontal flow?
 
user1804599
meta police
 
user406009
11:17 PM
Or a fancy constraint system based approach?
 
however, I actually in some way like it, I liked the original cartoon smurfs
 
@Mysticial That's probably because mods stopped behaving like police men, I think.
Actually, looooong ago
 
everything's gone CG now - it's err... horrible... or I'm getting old or something
 
But some of the old wounds have healed (and some older people with more grudge-capacity aren't regulars anymore?)
 
@Lalaland I haven't gotten to layouts yet. All positioning is with transform matrices that are baked in to a batched vertex buffer. I'l probably follow tizen dali's model for layouts and resizing
 
11:18 PM
@JonClements These aren't mutually exclusive
 
teenage mutant ninja turtles? WTF did they do with that?
use to a mostly bad cartoon, and a NES game
 
I never saw it when it was "hot". And I don't see it nowadays. What happened?
 
Just too much CG
 
user1804599
Do I want conditional compilation or not (like #if).
 
in my day.......
 
11:20 PM
@Lalaland Rather than explicitly specify constraints, you can use properties which form dependency changes. So if you want to anchor your widget to the left of its parent, you can just do widget.position = [&parent]() { return { parent.positon.x, y } };
 
user1804599
Nah, you can use a build system and potentially m4 instead.
 
I guess I could have an anchor function that would set up that relationship though
@JonClements it was a bad cartoon, then in like 2003 ish they had a better cartoon
then recently they made it 3d
 
The TMNT movie was bad =/
 
I used to love TMNT as a kid, almost as much as Batman
 
@elyse no
 
11:21 PM
but BTAS was my childhood
 
@JonClements Well. I'm just surprised people would willingly watch a today version of a cartoon that seemed already exceedingly meh when I was young. And complain about the ~difference~ :) Or maybe I'm just getting even older... o.O?
 
user1804599
@Puppy my compiler can now typecheck and generate SSA for hello world how proud are you of me
 
best cartoon ever
 
user406009
@Prismatic How are you batching render calls with multiple transformation matrices? Uniforms that consist of an array of matrices?
 
11:23 PM
@sehe bah... come 'round, I'll open a bottle of brandy, put on some blu-rays of old times, talk about the "old times", and throw popcorn at the TV
 
No, I'm baking the transforms. So I multiply verts with the transform on the CPU before uploading to the GPU
Im targeting ES 2 / GL 2.1 so I dont have a lot of options
Otherwise apparently the best thing to do would be a UBO
 
@Prismatic erm. isn't that inviting the usual recursive event loops? Or (if you cut cycles) broken logic? This is one thing that GUI frameworks with layout-managers got right, I think (separation of concerns)
 
@sehe Yes, you can run into binding loops if you're not careful. I use a topological sort on the relationships so you won't get an infinite loop or redundant calculations though
I intend to have basic Layout classes that will let you add a bunch of widgets and have them automatically be positioned in rows/columns/grids etc
 
But you'll still get the broken logic symptoms we all know so well
 
Not really sure what you mean by that. Do you have an example?
 
11:26 PM
@Prismatic My primary reason to prefer these would be (a) simplicity (b) efficiency (c) simplicity (testing) (d) simplicity (under change)
 
@Borgleader Pssst. Do you have a screenshot of renderdoc in action?
 
user1804599
ok let's solve this bug
 
user1804599
> Treat used names that start with an underscore as an error and treat unused names that do not start with an underscore as an error.
 
user1804599
no idea how to implement it (tm)
 
The courier that delivers the good I ordered online is called 'Fastway', fastway is taking 2 weeks to deliver something that usually takes 2 day to deliver ... irony
 
11:28 PM
@Mysticial anyway - done what I said I'd do and I'm going to chill out - listen to some music before going to bed. Thanks for putting up with me.
 
maybe they should change their name to 'turtle express'
 
@Prismatic It when you do the topological sort; That just breaks the cycles. So, certain notifications that you did rig, are not going to be triggered. Good luck fixing when that causes the layout to reach the wrong "equilibrium"
 
@JonClements Other way around. We should be thanking you for cleaning up our mess.
 
It's the fast way.
You didn't ask to what.
 
@sehe Hmm. Well cycles are pathological, and when the sort encounters one it'll spit out a warning. I can imagine it might be tough to debug in a complicated graph.
 
11:29 PM
@Mysticial Was it "ours"? That's an interesting remark
 
Maybe I'll add a graphviz output for debugging later
 
@sehe It was mostly in this room. Whether or not it was our fault.
 
@Prismatic It's always what this stuff ends up. Hoomans are just bad at tracking dependencies in this kind of spread-around logic.
@Mysticial Oh that's a low barrier. In that case it was a shared (with the mods) mess :) Because of the tools we have/lack
@Prismatic Especially if 3 years down the road someone else needs to make this tiny tweak to this localized layout bit and it works (except if the screen DPI is non-standard, or the color scheme is customized, or when the window is resized while holding the shift key etc.)
 
user1804599
Bertrand Meyer is a hero.
 
@ThePhD Sortof:
Aug 29 at 18:50, by Borgleader
user image
 
11:34 PM
@Mysticial I'm going to see if I can't get onboard another mod that can also "sit in" when I'm not doing so
 
user1804599
> On 28 December 2005, an anonymous user falsely announced Meyer's death on German Wikipedia's biography of Meyer.
 
user1804599
lol, why would you falsely announce that someone like him has died
 
> your'e welcome...
 
welcom'e
 
@elyse because you're totally f*ed in the head and think it'd be funny?
 
user406009
11:37 PM
 
@JonClements Thanks. Though ideally, the tooling should be good enough where that isn't necessary. But until then... :(
 
@Borgleader What is this program?
 
user1804599
@JonClements I'm not fuck*d in the head. :(
 
@Borgleader Oooh. So that was RenderDoc. I thought that was something you made yourself. x3
 
@Nican RenderDoc
 
11:38 PM
Thanks
 
@Mysticial heck, I want a better oven and fridge, do I replace then, can I afford to replace them? Yes I can, do I, no... that's how chat works
 
Just re-watched Baccano's OP and ED after a long time.
 
@ThePhD Nope, all i did was add a screenshot of my shader code and arrows :P
 
I forgot how good it was :D
 
user1804599
Speaking of Eiffel, I should figure out whether I want the VM to know about contracts, and if so how to implement that.
 
11:39 PM
@Borgleader Kinky.
Guess I have to go build RenderDoc.
 
user406009
@StackedCrooked Yeah, it was a great show.
 
user406009
One of the few shows that do multiple perspectives very well.
 
clang pls
 
pls clang?
 
why do you have different include search paths depending on 32/64-bit
mingw does this too
 
11:40 PM
@Lalaland Yep.
 
Because they're shitters.
 
Though, to be fair, VC++ does it too.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Hihi.
 
my biggest regret is downloading 32-bit clang
 
heya @Anastasiya - wb
 
11:41 PM
time for 64-bit clang
 
@Lalaland And just so many great moments. Like Jacuzzi guy always being afraid to hurt his opponents :D
 
user1804599
lol 32-bit software
 
@Rapptz Take the worst of both world, 32 bit exe with 64 bit ptrs
 
user1804599
How can you possibly compile C++ code if you have only 4 GB RAM.
4
 
You're doing it wrong:
 
11:42 PM
@elyse Compile easy, linking is another story
 
I didn't know I picked 32-bit until I noticed the include paths on this thing
 
@elyse Simple: You download more of it.
 
@elyse Using the cloud storage.
 
user1804599
Linking LLVM with debug info used 15 GB RAM on my machine.
 
@Mysticial unless some new flaggers turn up, I've lived up to my side of the bargain... if you notice anything (same for other ROs) custom mod flag it
 
user406009
11:42 PM
@elyse Swap.
 
user406009
Endless swapping.
 
user1804599
Swap is death.
 
What's going on, more flags?
 
user406009
It's like Mozart from your hard drive.
 
user1804599
I think making the VM aware of contracts is simpler.
 
11:43 PM
@Borgleader Do you hook applications that are already running, or do you have to start them up with Renderdoc?
 
@Anastasiya nope - we've been very flag free for a long while
 
user1804599
And provides common behaviour for different language implementations.
 
user406009
Perhaps we should just remove the flag feature?
 
user406009
Or disable flags while an owner is in the room?
 
clang apparently knows where mingw-builds include paths are
 
11:44 PM
No because then people would go around saying stuff like nigger cock which is not appropriate
 
I guess they were sick of the missing include errors on windows
 
@JonClements Will do. And thank you very much for all your work in this. We seriously (literally) couldn't have done it without you.
 
wtb /usr/local/include & friends
 
user1804599
Use Vagrant.
 
you guys have gotten so overdramatic with flags
I barely notice them
 
user406009
11:44 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Yes, but that's what we have room owners for.
 
@ThePhD I start it from within renderdoc, it injects inself in the process somehow afaik
 
but to be fair I'm not here that much anymore
 
at least no one comes up with a bot to automatically flags things
 
@Rapptz You're never here when they happen.
 
@Rapptz You weren't there
@Rapptz We missed you
 
11:45 PM
And when they do, it's like someone farting in your face over and over again. And you don't know who it is because it's too close to your face.
 
@JonClements "custom"? You mean like mention you?
 
So Don Larynx got a one month suspension
 
user1804599
nice
 
We're not totally suprised
 
Yeah
 
user406009
11:46 PM
@AndyProwl What for?
 
Being an ass. *

* English lets you do that. With ---impunity--- ambiguity. I love it
 
I don't see no flag, the 'bless' of no low rep users
 
Who was it again who said I had no proof that Dumb Larynx was the troll? :')
 
user406009
Well, that's not exactly fair. Everyone has an ass and can be an ass at times.
 
yeah... some twat mod after listening and reviewing took action
 
11:47 PM
> clang.cindex.LibclangError: [Error 193] %1 is not a valid Win32 application. To provide a path to libclang use Config.set_library_path() or Config.set_library_file().
 
user1804599
OTOH it complicates the VM.
 
nice
 
I'm going to miss the bus again
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Run.
 
@Lalaland guess :P
 
user406009
11:47 PM
A day is incomplete without running for public transportation.
 
RUN FORREST, RUN!
 
user1804599
OTOOH it allows stack traces to blame the caller, not the callee, for precondition violations.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Take the subway. I love the HK subway system much better than the shitty Chicago one.
 
I'm on mobile can't reply-to
 
@Lalaland Did you not see my edit?
 
11:48 PM
tfw 32-bit python
the death of me right here
 
does 32 bit even exist?
 
user406009
@JonClements ARM.
 
Night guise. Thanks again Jon
 
ahhh
 
@JonClements confused
 
11:48 PM
tc @AndyProwl - see you around no doubt
 
@JonClements Thanks
 
@JonClements Apparently.
 
user1804599
No idea how to encode it though.
 
@JonClements I have a dual-32 bit processor, even. So it exists
 
user1804599
There are many ways of doing it.
 
11:49 PM
Wtf.
@Borgleader Does Renderdoc try to access the internet?
 
I hope my python3 is 64-bit
 
user406009
@sehe Do you also have 64 1-bit processors?
 
user406009
Those I would like to see.
 
user1804599
aaaahhhh I know
 
No. Couldn't afford them
 
11:49 PM
> Python 3.4.3 (v3.4.3:9b73f1c3e601, Feb 24 2015, 22:43:06) [MSC v.1600 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
:(
 
@elyse a layer of indirection!
 
wow... my laptop is 2 processors at 4 cores each
 
user1804599
@sehe nope!
 
user406009
@Rapptz Python releases both 64-bit and 32-bit builds on almost every OS.
 
user406009
Download a 64-bit version if you really want one.
 
11:50 PM
Thanks friend.
 
@JonClements A laptop?
 
@JonClements you must have a big lap
 
it's a custom build
 
user1804599
Preconditions and postconditions are compiled into separate bytecode sections, and the VM merges them into the bodies of the subroutines they belong to at link time.
 
user406009
@Rapptz Of course that doesn't help you when you are using an application with an embedded python interpreter. This describes the topic more in depth.
 
11:51 PM
@ThePhD Why do you ask? (all i know is it can because if it crashes you can send a crash report)
 
19" screen, 2x4core 2.9's or something, 48gb ram, 2x1tb disks, 1x512gb SSD
 
@Borgleader Triggered network access warning for me the moment I tried to inject into a process.
 
@JonClements Damn. More like a mobile workstation than a laptop.
I've been wanting a laptop with 32GB+ of ram for a while.
 
user406009
I still don't understand how you guys use up so much ram.
 
I'm hoping to get one with the Skylake mobile Xeon chip.
 
11:55 PM
I'm not gonna change to 64-bit python
cause I have a lot of packages
 
@ThePhD Oh well they might the injected process and renderdoc might be communicating through a socket. I think if renderdoc crashes but your app is still running you can reconnect to it. So that might explain things.
 
@Mysticial Battery life - zilch
 
and I'm too lazy to reinstall them all
 
user406009
@Rapptz But what about the RAM! Just imagine it sitting there. Lonely. Waiting for the OS to provide it to your inefficient Python process. But no ...
 
@JonClements Hehe. What generation chips are those? I imagine any dual-socket machine would be on the order 300W+ under load. Nothing short of a car battery will last under that.
 
11:57 PM
ordered it Feb. this year
 
@Borgleader Well, oaky. At the moment, Renderdoc has frozen for me entirely.
I think it doesn't like to be paired with the VS debugger.
FUCKING
Renderdoc doesn't support my fucking extensions.
 
Well, so much for using that tool.
 
I am acutally surprised at the slowness the batteries technology is evolving
 
@Mysticial it's got a 1gb or something graphics card in it as well
 
user406009
11:59 PM
Energy storage is hard.
 
@chmod711telkitty It's limited by chemistry and physics: breaking those limits is hard.
 
user406009
You probably have more energy in a banana than a laptop battery.
 
I was trying to complete the "next stage" on bioshock infinite
 
user406009
Clearly instead of batteries, we should be providing packaged sweets. And a hand crank.
 
11:59 PM
@JonClements Holy shit.
 

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