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@jaggedSpire :(
 
@Borgleader kim's ass probably costs more than his car
what a world we live in
 
@Nooble The side buttons are forwards and back buttons!
 
@jaggedSpire Yes they are!
And your scroll wheel can go side to side.
This lets you side-scroll web pages.
 
oooh
 
12:28 AM
@Nooble o.o what
 
@Borgleader Some pages are too wide.
 
What controll thingy lets you scroll from side to side, and has forwards/back buttons?
(inb4 a keyboard)
 
@jaggedSpire I usually bind the side buttons to 'w' and 'space' so I can wander around in games with one hand.
@Borgleader Logitech M510.
 
@Nooble shiny
 
12:30 AM
Hanners <3
@Nooble Mine does that too (Razer Copperhead 3G)
 
@Borgleader That's an old mouse
 
Yup
I also have the Razer Naga Molten
 
I want an MX Master.
It's a bit pricey but looks so nice.
 
I've wanted a new one for a while but Razer's new mice look like shit (imo) and not many other brands make good looking black mice (yes it needs to look good, if its gonna sit on my desk in front of me for many hours a week it better look good)
 
@Borgleader MX Masteeeerrr.
 
12:35 AM
Eh... I dislike the shape of it, and im not sure about the bronzed underside
Maybe I could design and 3d print one, how hard can it be ;)
 
12:52 AM
@Borgleader idgi
 
@MaiLongdong Read the comic
 
You mean in context
 
@MaiLongdong I mean you have 3036 pages to go :)
 
rip last remains of productivity
 
@MaiLongdong You'll probably identify with Pint Size
 
12:55 AM
Not sure what to expect
> In a tri-color collector, every object is either white, grey, or black and we view the heap as a graph of connected objects.
That's racist!
 
1:24 AM
So... ICC15 with VS2015 integration crashes with this:
#include <memory>
class MyClass{
    MyClass();
    std::unique_ptr<int> ptr;
};
MyClass::MyClass(){}
Um...
 
@Mysticial ☑ rekt ☐ not rekt
 
It also throw assertion errors when you include <mutex> either directly or indirectly.
If MSVC ICEs are worse than Stalin, then I have no fucking clue what you would call this...
 
Using VS's stdlib?
 
Yeah. I can't figure out how to make ICC point to the the VS2013 tool set through the VS2015 IDE.
ICC15 is horrifically broken with VS2015 integration.
 
@Mysticial Worse than an intentional Great Leap Forward?
Worse than Genghis Khan?
 
1:30 AM
I hope they fixed everything for ICC16.
2
 
Do you still have time to work on personal projects despite your job?
Or is that for work
 
@Mysticial Starring for vain hopes
 
@MaiLongdong I still maintain several personal projects. But I don't really have any time to work on them anymore.
 
Missing it?
 
Just finished reading "The Singularity is Near" written by computer scientist Ray Kurzweil — My mind was violated, but in a good way.
 
1:41 AM
Weird question: Is there anything in C++ that is greater than everything?
Without explicitly saying something like "float greatestNumber = 99999999"
 
@AmagicalFishy I believe NaN also includes positive infinity in C++ syntax.
 
@AmagicalFishy No. Because if that number existed, it isn't greater than itself.
 
Infinity is Not A Number (NaN) and I don't know what else you could want.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ That's what you want @AmagicalFishy
 
1:46 AM
Thanks
 
Thanks, guys. Reading now. :) (Sorry, was writing quick main() to test out NaN)
 
NaN is probably not what you want.
All comparisons with it will be false.
 
NaN has problems comparing with other NaNs.
 
Yeah. std::numeric_limits<int>::max() is precisely what I need
 
2:06 AM
@AmagicalFishy Yes.
 
2:31 AM
Also compilers will frequently optomize out if (x!=x), although I don't know of any that will remove the intrinsic version, isnan
 
Not in the case of floats unless -ffast-math
 
-fuckin-math
 
@MaiLongdong Who the heck would ever compile their program with -fslow-math?
 
I .
 
I don't know people who care about accuracy for example
 
2:40 AM
People who care about standards compliance
 
@Mikhail People who want to preserve the IEEE compliance.
 
@MaiLongdong I gave up on standard compliance when nvidia decided to map OpenCL's sqrt to approximate square root.
 
Let's make a standard for floats and then make every implementation broken by default!
 
>nvidia
>opencl

Pick one
NVIDIA has an ~~accidentally~~ completely atrocious "implementation" of OpenCL
I wonder why
It's almost as if they had a competing product they were trying to push
But Khronos got way smarter than them with SPIR-V
 
@MaiLongdong I don't think they'd do this. I mean, they still want to sell GPUs.
 
2:44 AM
So if NVIDIA wants to support Vulkan -and you bet they want to-, they have to support SPIR-V and hence OpenCL
@Nooble Oh but they do
They do and it's not even funny
 
As somebody who is basically doing a PhD on numerical processing of images, I can say that numerical accuracy is overrated. The worst case I have encountered was in evaluating a sqrt get a perfect 0.0f. In Matlab and CUDA the number came out correct, in OpenCL it was a little off causing some NaNs to appear. In all these cases it had NOTHING TO DO WITH COMPILE FLAGS, IEEE compliance is a hardware feature.
 
@MaiLongdong Well, I guess I'm not too surprised.
Gameworks™
 
It's not overrated when you need determinism not 1% faster calculations
 
@Mikhail Your opinion on your specific use case does not represent the rest of the world
 
@MaiLongdong But its a damn good hint!
 
2:46 AM
It is not
Far from that
 
Non-deterministic float behaviour is the reason we can't do networked multiplayer at the moment
Fuck this noise
 
good day guys. Can you please help because we're making a proposed payroll system and we are asked to create an entity relationship diagram for it. Is the leave, shift and overtime details under the employee table?
 
"As a XXX" is an anecdote and does not provide any solid foundation for argumentation
@user3783598 You shouldn't be using relational databases those are not webscale
 
It's your homework figure it out
 
sorry what do you mean by webscale?
6
 
2:48 AM
Anecdotation!
@user3783598 It's the scale of your mother.
 
@MaiLongdong The flags control if the NaNs will be ignored (1) and if approximate version of certain functions will be used (2). Unless you are using them to signal (1) is not very useful. With the exception of OCL (2) doesn't make different code appear on x86 systems, in the NVIDIA OpenCL kernel the precision is not sufficiently improved by the supposedly correct functions - so this isn't really useful or portable. The only solution is to fix your damn algorithm so that you don't do crap.
 
@CatPlusPlus Did you start your own company yet
 
@CatPlusPlus Congrats!
What's it called?
 
@Mikhail I don't want to argue about this because Internet, but if you believe that numerical accuracy is irrelevant in your field, maybe, but don't generalize to the rest of the industry because it is plainly wrong. That's my point. The end.
 
2:50 AM
Fast Math Fo Life
@MaiLongdong But the flags don't control that
 
> The end.
@CatPlusPlus Did you quit your job yet
 
THE NUMERICAL ACCURACY IS DUE TO THE HARDWARE NOT THE FLAGS
 
wait, because i've searched erd of payroll system in the net and i just want to ask if it is standard for all payroll system so i can just copy it?
 
:-/
 
2:52 AM
@user3783598 Why don't you use an existing product
 
@Mikhail Is there documentation on this?
 
sorry but it's our thesis and we are required to develop a new system
 
@user3783598 How much do you make a month?
 
Give up
 
@Mikhail 0
Or less
 
2:54 AM
@Mikhail what do you mean? i'm an undergrad
 
@user3783598 Sorry I thought you were some IT contractor from India
@user3783598 When I was in undergrad I setup some IT sourcing which involved really boring Java work, but I was shocked that we could outsource the whole project to India for a few thousand.
 
Outsource all the things!
 
really nice
 
I hate undocumented things so much, especially when comments are super ambiguous.
 
@Mikhail for top quality work
@Nooble --i; // increase the verbol
 
2:59 AM
@MaiLongdong :P
tinyobj is so poorly documented that I had to do detective work.
 
@MaiLongdong Was a project to write file conversion tools to automatically process documents. It was god awful, and slow, it took months because the staff appeared to keep changing, revisions to the source would take over a week. We would get emails about weird Indian holidays. But it was really cheap, cost something like 3k per feature. I think the whole project was done for less then the cost of a nice car.
 
3k what currency
 
USD
 
elyse would do it for cheaper than that and suck your dick in the process
but probably it would never be completed
Sometimes I really want to quit the software industry because everything is shit
That OR find the miracle employer that doesn't exist
 
@MaiLongdong Yourself.
 
3:03 AM
not sure I'd be very good at making stuff people would want to buy
 
Everybody wants a Long Dong™
 
I don't sell that one
This code is full of double-phase init and circular references
 
@MaiLongdong Which kind of circular references.
And yeah, two-stage init sucks.
 
@Nooble classes that know about each other directly
 
I end up just wrapping two-stage inits in an object.
 
3:13 AM
I end up trying to fix the whole design but I do too much at once so the whole thing collapses and I get discouraged
 
So it appears Qt doesn't believe in RAII bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-47956
 
lol that response
top quality contribution
 
3:30 AM
I wouldn't care about that silly example either
 
3:42 AM
Does anybody here use Google Inbox?
What happens to the "done" emails? I hope they do not get removed from Gmail.
 
They are archived
 
They're never removed from Gmail
 
user406009
4:05 AM
Darn, Haskell's laziness is annoying. Makes me want to come back to C++ where things actually evaluate in the order you tell them to.
 
Lol, wait until you realize that your code is running 100x slower than GREP
 
4:37 AM
@Mikhail Nah---Long Wang
 
4:49 AM
Yeah lazy eval can be annoying at times
 
5:01 AM
whatup all
 
@Prismatic People who don't value laziness, apparently.
Me, I value hard work. I could lay here and day dream about it all day long...
 
@Mikhail Why would you want to use QApplication twice in the same program
 
double the fun
 
5:31 AM
what do you guys think of the name 'fruitkit'
reactive user interface toolkit
i dont know what the 'f' stands for yet
Or maybe 'suitkit' ... simple user interface toolkit
 
fuckkit
 
@Prismatic Why not? Its a GUI that appears out of a dll, when you call ShowGUI a GUI appears. Having the GUI running in the background is a waste of computational resources.
 
Fair enough
 
>2015
>worrying about computational resources
are you running on an apple watch
 
@MaiLongdong I did it for the G-RAM
 
5:37 AM
They probably capture the thread that created QApplication in its constructor and don't reset it.
 
the g who
 
@MaiLongdong My crap uses shit tons of GPU resources
 
Hello there - I have a container (Truck) that contains elements (Boxes). I want to expose begin()/end() for the container with my implementation of the iterators. Now the type of the iterator iterates over Boxes, and is returned by the Truck. According to C++ naming convention, should this type be called truck_iterator or box_iterator or boxes_iterator?
 
'vram'
 
@KarimAgha robert seems to be a better fit
Because often truck drivers are called Robert
Source:
 
5:40 AM
@Prismatic Its actually not a spurious error as I believed, in reality there is still Qt stuff running around after the dctor was called. But they still won't fix it, because its unsupported. Hence, they don't support RAII.
 
@MaiLongdong that is sexist of you to assume that females can't be iterators
or drivers
 
or doctors
 
Robert is not a male-specific name you uneducated, patriarchal thing
 
lol
k, for real -> iterators are named after the container or the element they iterate over?
 
is truck templated on type or is it always just boxes
 
5:41 AM
templated type
 
we need an auto keyword for variable names.
 
Just call the type 'iterator' in your truck class
truck<T>::iterator
 
I still stand by my recommendation of robert
 
Hey, can anyone help me out with a C++ class on github?
Im paying $50 by bitcoin
5
 
5:44 AM
Please, anyone?
 
Is there a reason you can't post your question on SO?
 
What class is it
 
I guess I'll just call it ::iterator.
 
Because if I post it on SO, ill go on and on in the comments, and eventually itll suggest me to come here
 
Also 50$ is about 20 minutes of my time
 
5:45 AM
Its a 64bit execution class
 
not a bad idea @Prismatic. Thanks!
 
Trust me nobody will suggest you to come here
 
In fact we suggest you don't
 
all in favour for permaban
 
5:46 AM
Also lol buttcoin
 
Well its not like I have a paypal
 
Your problem
 
Bitcoin is easier
 
Said nobody ever
 
There's wobsites that do that though
 
5:47 AM
I just said it, how does that mean no one ever said it?
 
Said nobody ever
 
@AndrewPeters This is interesting, your project looks kinda cool but you might have pissed people off by offering money.
 
Can you help me out?
 
Nobody would mind being offered money
 
5:48 AM
@AndrewPeters Sorry I don't know Windows internals.
 
In the sample, he shows that the "GetThreadContext64()" function works in order with the way he places it out, in my program, its crashing the program, and the "debug" isnt helping either
 
maybe increase the rams
 
@AndrewPeters That code you posted is pretty close to a SSCCE
If you bother describing your problem with the debug output and all I don't see why someone wouldn't help you on SO
 
Shitty Source Code that won't Compile Ever
 
5:50 AM
kot why are you awake at this time
 
Debug output: First-chance exception at 0x0097B2CD in Injection.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0xFFFFFFFF.
 
I've been awake since 1AM
 
That information isn't helpful. You need to get proper debugging information, like a stacktrace or something... then post it as a nicely formatted question
 
with bold and italics
 
No bold or italics pls
 
5:52 AM
I'm confused, so there is this project to do x64 calls in x86, you run the example program and it crashes. Probably submit a bug report on the example.
Maybe from David-Reguera-Garcia-Dreg will help
 
I have, and I haven't gotten a reply in over 4 days.
 
Isn't it about World of Warcraft 64
 
Or alternatively just fucking forget about 32-bit shit
Extremely shitty hack
I'm real shocked it doesn't work properly
 
Or use COM :-)
 
or python
 
5:54 AM
is make_unique<int[]>(127812) going to zero-initialize my ints
 
@KarimAgha that won't work
 
Its for a game that I've been working on for almost a year now, and like, I cant forget about it, ive traced all my alternatives, taking this 64bit approach from 22bit client is my only option, and like I'm not in the mood to look for another option, neither is having 2 bitwise executables an option
 
32bit client*
 
The docs don't say if it's default init or something else
help
 
5:55 AM
You're actually trying to deploy this in a serious production thing
Ahahaha
 
@MaiLongdong If only there was a way you could try it
 
@AndrewPeters Umm, build 32bit...
 
@Prismatic There isn't
 
@Prismatic There isn’t
 
Actually don't build 32-bit at all, problem solved
 
5:55 AM
why not
 
@CatPlusPlus Or don't build 64bit...
 
You try it and you see zeros. What does that tell you?
 
@Prismatic How would you proceed?
 
It's a shitty hack unsuitable for any use other than curiosity experiments
hth
Don't use it
 
5:56 AM
@LucDanton That its zero initialized? Would that be the wrong conclusion to draw?
 
Yeah that'd be a wrong conclusion
 
How do you know it wasn’t default-init with zeros?
 
Whatever you think you're solving is wrong problem
 
:l
That isnt the advice i was looking for
 
test it with a custom class and a std::cout in the constructor.
 
5:58 AM
Yes test it with something else, that'll tell you everything
 
I think he should deploy with it just for the LULz
(I make medical instruments)
 
@LucDanton I thought c++ doesn't zero init integer types unless its a global or you're in debug mode
 
It's make_unique not "C++"
 
@Prismatic This is about default-init. What do you think it does?
 
I don't get what you're talking about so never mind
 
6:01 AM
Default-init is not testable, is the gist of it. And never read indeterminate values in actual programs.
 
So apparently the underlying call is unique_ptr<T>(new typename std::remove_extent<T>::type[size]()) which is zero-init
disaster avoided
 
But you're still using C++
 
Still better than rubby
 
Debatable
 
> I like to be on the "bleeding edge", but not to the point of frustration.
doing it wrong
 
6:03 AM
Masochism
 
what’s a metaphor for something so advanced it can hurt, but not to the point of bleeding
 
penis nevermind, that can hurt to the point of bleeding
 
Rubber knife
 
the baffling edge of metaphors
 
a veritable paper cut
 
6:06 AM
can a fart hurt
 
to the point of bleeding
 
you guys need more fiber in your diet
 
> Hello and thank you in advance;
no
I read that as "downvote me ASAP"
 
Can somebody send me an license to MSVC2015? (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง
 
6:10 AM
No
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
common
 
fancy, fast, fine, fluid, fully, fresh, flexible
all good adjectives that start with 'f'
 
It's free what do you need a license for
@Prismatic fucking foul fart
 
Isn't the free version stripped down?
 
6:11 AM
@MaiLongdong thats just filthy
 
It's your mom stripped down
 
fruitkit - flexible reactive user interface toolkit
suitkit - simple user interface toolkit
I cant decide
 
Both probably suck
 
reactive means something
 
in ISO C++ proposal review, 17 secs ago, by Potatoswatter
std::function allocator behavior proposal is mostly finished! PDF.
 
6:17 AM
You're doing it wrong
 
@CatPlusPlus does your cynicism and apathy increase the longer you're awake
 
It should be fruitkit - flexible, reactive, opinionated, gender-fluid user interface toolkit for the modern web
 
Somebody save me from this awful proposal topic…
 
If you don't want to do it then why are you doing it
 
6:19 AM
allocnotfun
 
> modern web
burn it with fire
 
@CatPlusPlus Because somebody has to. std::function has minor issues, which fundamentals_v1::function turns into an unmitigated disaster.
 
wtf is polymorphic memory resources ? Like allocating with MSVC08 and deallocating with MSVC13?
 
You're doing it to yourself
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, I had to implement my std::function for the sake of other proposals, which are awesome, and then I had the choice of either ignoring the now-obvious problems (and becoming complicit) or fixing them.
 
6:22 AM
Exactly
 
6:32 AM
Oh damn! I just got it fixed!
:D
Thanks for putting me down guys
it really motivated me
 
It's still shitty terrible idea but yeah have fun with that nonsense
 
Oh I will!
Im dedicated man
 
Yeah you won't but whatever
 
does that mean telling you 'please never come back' will only encourage you? then I hope to see you soon
 
You will see me soon!
Very soon
muahahahahha
 
6:34 AM
please never come back
 
I can't wait
 
I'll see you tomorrow then
cheers
 
cheers
 
6:45 AM
@Potatoswatter Nice work.
 
This is a pretty cool picture
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/ESO_-_The_Milky_Way_panoram‌​a_%28by%29.jpg
 
404 Not Found
 
I like the summary of the current situation. Can’t really comment on the outlined solution.
 
Hmm, now that I've described the behavior I don't know what to write next. Standardese would be overkill. There are no acknowledgements, no platitudes for a "conclusion", no "further work" if there is a god.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ESO_-_The_Milky_Way_panorama_(by).jpg
that should work
 
6:48 AM
Indeed a very cool picture as most of it is very close to 0 K
 
Conclusion: Kiss my ass. The end.
 
@Potatoswatter I wouldn’t know how to proceed without knowing the consensus on whether we already know what the current function should be, what we want it to be, and if we want another vocabulary type.
 
@LucDanton function_container is never going to be a vocabulary type. Just because it's closely related to a vocabulary type doesn't make it one.
 
I don’t see why not.
 
Compare std::string to std::basic_string.
The user specifies a custom allocator, they're in a niche.
 
6:50 AM
It’s completely unlike the setup here?
 
How unlike? You use it iff you have a custom allocator.
 
I was referring to the handle_function and container_function dichotomy.
smart_function? doesn’t matter
 
Huh? It's just std::function and std::experimental::fundamentals_v2::function_container.
 
Implementation details.
 
The proposal requires an ABI change for standard libraries, but it doesn't introduce a new non-allocator-oriented function wrapper.
 
6:53 AM
Okay?
 
Where did you get handle_function or smart_function? Not sure where you're going with that.
 
> On a conceptual level, the dilemma appears as two opposing viewpoints: function is like a container, or it is not a container.
The one that’s not a container.
 
That's std::function. Unless you're the one guy who proposed otherwise.
 
Right.
And here we are.
 
There is a constellation called 'puppis', meaning poop deck in latin
 
6:58 AM
Well. The consensus is definitely up in the air. No idea what to expect, but I don't want to be low on ammunition against making std::function into a container.
 
uh
this was about the vocabulary types
 
From what I can tell, "the allocators expert who shall remain nameless in this chat" has been on this mission for a while, proposing various things, and the library implementers have essentially been ignoring him.
 

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