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23:00
Eh.
Wow, that is valid.
@sehe Ah, very good.
Is that show worth watching? I have a feeling that by now everyone just keeps saying the same things over and over about C++11.
I still don't like printf.
You can get fully compile-time checked printf in Template Haskell.
@KerrekSB Not much new. However, I do feel that the explanations get a lot more educated and simpler to follow.
23:01
You could do it in C++, if string template arguments were feasible.
@sehe I see. I guess that's to be expected...
@KerrekSB I need that to sink it in my pea brains :)
Xeo
Xeo
"The house continues over there ->"
23:03
@RMartinhoFernandes time to abuse userdefined string literals + constexpr ?
'neither'? Neither what?
Are there exactly two implementations of std::tuple? Wut?
Probably meant "none of them [implementations]".
Okay then.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe That's exactly what I thought.
Or there are two implementations, and everybody are using them.
23:04
Won't show EBO I guess.
Lol "Rupture in the Universe".
@Xeo shame no compiler implements it yet
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe Clang 3.1 TOT has constexpr pretty much finished
Maybe some corner cases
@sehe Nope, not feasible.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Why not?
23:05
You can waste your time on it if you want to be convinced.
@Xeo You can't handle the string literals in the meta level.
pack_arguments == std::forward_as_tuple I assume.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes ?
@RMartinhoFernandes at the very least i expect to be able to construct mpl strings of them? From mpl strings we get further. It will require 2Gb to compile a printf format string, but who cares :)
No, you can't.
At the meta-level all you have is a char const*.
Good luck with that.
You can't change signature based on conditions in the body of the function.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes *str != '%' || bla ? check_format(str+1) : throw 5;
23:08
@Xeo That's a runtime check.
Xeo
Xeo
No
During a constexpr call it will fail to compile if you have a runtime only thing in it
Like throw.
What if I call operator"" _foo(s) where s is filled from std::cin?
Dead code still has to compile.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Normal function call.
@RMartinhoFernandes After the talk I'll look for Johannes' message
Aaand that's the point. How do you statically check that.
Xeo
Xeo
23:10
@LucDanton You can't check everything obviously.
Right but if it can't work for a dynamic s it doesn't work for a static s either.
Xeo
Xeo
Like I said, lemme look for Johannes' message after the talk
No. Well you can look it for yourself if you want.
Xeo
Xeo
?
String UDLs are dead to me now.
Xeo
Xeo
23:12
lol
Happy?
Wait, my bad.
I like his French accent.
le tableau vivant :) apocalyptic finish?
Apothéotique actually. That's nicer (usually).
@LucDanton Apotheotic then :) Tableau Vivant was a Gallicism, the rest it just an accent!
23:16
What's this GoingNative thing? Some kind of hipster punk rock fusion band?
C++ talks.
@Maxpm Yup. Find more info in th php room
This talk was kinda meh, too.
Live streamin' live streamin' YEAH! FUN FUN FUN FUN-
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Only because you know that stuff :P
23:18
@CatPlusPlus Not much new, I just like the slide where he sketches all the possible expansion forms (including the lockstep). The one that he allegedly "rehearsed" :)
STL's talk was more fun.
the language which shall remain nameless
Xeo
Xeo
oooh, return type inference. :>
Return type inference would be lovely.
I think.
Actually, no.
Xeo
Xeo
It would
23:19
That sounds like a horrible idea.
Ew.
Xeo
Xeo
It definitly would
It's the awesomez.
Xeo
Xeo
It would finally allowing you to return nested functions.
23:20
It feels dynamic and gross.
Xeo
Xeo
auto f(){
  return []{ blaaaah; };
}
Explicit return types have saved my butt a lot of times.
It should feel dynamic.
Type inference is not dynamic.
23:20
@Maxpm Then use that. But why forbid it for everyone else?
If by "dynamic" you mean "type system doesn't get in your way".
Anyone here know about linq? ^^
@LucDanton Making something optional does not make that thing a good idea.
lol, STL's mentioning we can leverage his pain.
Type inference doesn't make type optional.
23:21
@Maxpm Have you ever tried inferred return types?
@Maxpm Right. The second and final argument is that statically-typed languages with (true) type-inference exist and they're fine.
@RMartinhoFernandes No.
No, they're not fine. They're awesome.
If you have a type error with explicit type, you'll have a type error with inferred type, too.
@LewsTherin yup, why?
23:22
But the first argument was just here to shoot down your (silly) rebuttal.
@sehe I am trying to understand the lambda syntax. It doesn't make any sense to me :(
Haskell has full inference, and it's the definition of awesome.
@CatPlusPlus That's true.
@LewsTherin have resharper?
You have used Haskell and don't like inferred return types?
23:23
I need food.
@sehe Yeah.. not on this computer however. How does that help?
You can Alt+Enter to roundtrip between delegates, anonymous functions and lambda expressions.
@LewsTherin However, it is simply like this: (object param) => param.ToString() is a lambda for string fun(object param) { return param.ToString(); }, and then there is a slew of deduction and shorthands
23:25
@CatPlusPlus cats food?
@DzekTrek Resharper
oh :)
@sehe Oops I actually meant the actual syntax for example (x => x*x)
Okay, I take it back. Inferred return types would be nice.
Xeo
Xeo
23:26
LOL
@sehe x is the input variable what does that mean? :S
Xeo
Xeo
Cat's question
What's funny :S
What question?
Wut is it.
23:26
I don't get it. ._.
@LewsTherin That's shorthand for (var x) => { return x*x; } (var is not legal there it just conveys the meaning)
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Ts and Us of different size
Oh. I closed the stream.
@sehe A nameless variable?
Inferred at compile time.. I would guess
@LewsTherin not input variable. Just the function parameter forthe unary function
23:27
@LewsTherin It's a nameless function.
Is @Cat at GoingNative?
Not x though, the whole of it.
@LewsTherin not nameless, named, but implicitely typed!
What the hell... so what is the argument and parameter?
@sehe What's the name - x?
@LewsTherin You understand functions in C#?
Xeo
Xeo
23:29
I think that guy just asked a question
@sehe Yeah - like any other functions lol
@LewsTherin void function(int x) { } <-- x is the parameter
@Xeo You're a stalker!
x => x*x is like T f(U x) { return x*x; }, for whatever appropriate T and U make sense in the context.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes No, I just remembered that face. :)
@sehe Yup
23:29
@Xeo , who is he?
He's now explaining how variadic packs are second-class citizens.
need a check, is this valid code to make a 3-d array?
std::tuple is the new type_list >:(
char grid[2][2][3] = { { {0,e,8}, {2,f,3} },
{ {1,k,2}, {4,x,5} } };
23:30
yes it is.
@LewsTherin x => x*x is like T unnamed<T>(T x) { return x*x; }
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh so it is saying create a type that accepts an argument of any type.. and return an object/ a value of any type
@Xeo "That guy" is pretty impressive, though. His website contains several very nice articles, an early implementation of an owning pointer-container, and he also wrote a book.
See where the unnamed part is? It is not the x, since, obviously, x names the parameter
23:31
OK, now seriously, how did you think to implement it that way?
What kind of room were they in? It looked like a NASA control center.
@LewsTherin No, only of the types that make sense in that context.
Xeo
Xeo
@KerrekSB He's a pretty concurrency oriented guy IIRC
But he hasn't been asking questions lately.
Xeo
Xeo
@KerrekSB And he also likes teaching. chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/5924/…
23:31
Now is the time for everyone that's been whining about food to eat.
@Xeo not only. But he works for a company that makes concurrency / memory access checking software
@sehe So how is it not nameless? Unnamed means the same thing
@KerrekSB He asked one to Andrei.
@RMartinhoFernandes Really confused lol. How do you mean?
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton I did when Böhm was talking. :/
23:32
There's an "e" missing in there.
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Is he actually called Boehm?
@LewsTherin I said x isn't unnamed, the unnamed lambda is unnamed, which is why I named it unnamed in the 'fictitious' translation:
2 mins ago, by sehe
@LewsTherin x => x*x is like T unnamed<T>(T x) { return x*x; }
@Xeo Oh, is that a contraction thing in eastern languages?
Xeo
Xeo
oe is the "Umlaut" for "ö" in German
@RMartinhoFernandes transliteration
23:33
Ah, I take that back then.
Xeo
Xeo
And it's pronounced like "ö"
Damn gibberish.
@sehe Oh I get you know.. what does @RMartinhoFernandes mean about depending on the context?
@RMartinhoFernandes How do you ask a question "to" someone?
@KerrekSB You can do it easily if you're in the same physical room as that person.
23:34
@RMartinhoFernandes The German umlaut started as a ligature of 'e' to be precise. Not a contraction per se.
"The importance of being native"... hm, wonder if it's worth staying up late for.
@Xeo Like that famous writer "Göthe"!
So I could write Goedel for Gödel?
@RMartinhoFernandes By "physical" do you mean "chat room"?
@RMartinhoFernandes yes.
23:35
@KerrekSB No, I mean actual tangible set of walls, floor and ceiling.
@RMartinhoFernandes Check the name is German. Dutch also uses 'oe' but that's a different diphthong.
What sup everyone.
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep, Austrian.
Xeo
Xeo
Okay. Either he's really written as "Boehm" or I can't find any info on him as "Böhm"
yo bro learning c
23:35
We're not busy anymore.
what's up bro?
@LucDanton Kurt was Austrian, so I guess it counts as German.
Not much. My weekend stats today =)
Damn network.
How do I get the video for channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/… STL11: Magic && Secrets
Xeo
Xeo
23:36
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Intermission till 0000 UTC. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012 [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
@RMartinhoFernandes It's not recursion on the template function, but it's recursion on the function template ;)
@RMartinhoFernandes I used that meaning of German to mean the language, yes.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe It'll be up within 24h according to Channel9
@sehe You wait until tomorrow and download it.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe Or you can open a browser with Silverlight and skip back to his talk
23:37
@FredOverflow fuck. I should have been recording it with vlc. Now I'll have to wait.
I'm going to install Moonlight and see if the player works with that.
@Xeo Nice.
whats that website that you post code and it compiles for you?
@Xeo ty
23:38
@RMartinhoFernandes Chrome wouldnt' and the moonlight download isn't compatible with ffox 9.0.1
Does it work with 32bit?
@RMartinhoFernandes nope
@sehe You can record with VLC? Why didn't anyone tell me this? :)
Xeo
Xeo
1
A: How do you pronounce RAII?

jstevencoHmmm -- I'd say if you consider yourself more of an engineer, go with "I Triple E" like. On the other hand, if you think of yourself more as a pirate, how could you not LOVE: ARRRRR a AYE AYE!

lol.
23:39
I had a quiz today, and the assignment was to scan a line and output the smallest number. How would I do this? This is what I have so far: ideone.com/G01lA
@FredOverflow I think you'd have to set it to 'transcode/stream' and then watch the transcoded/ing stream with a small delay
@FredOverflow i'm pretty sure VLC does multicast (rtsp?) too so you could do both
@LucDanton I always confuse Hans Boehm and Hans Blix. They both seem to serve very similar purposes.
Breed more humans?
RAII/ra:i/
breed/br:id/
I like this music.
23:41
more/mo"u"R/
I love Andrei's distinction between ... and ... :)
@FredOverflow that's not really very new though. Type dot dot dot in word or ooffice and be surprised
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow I loved STL's talk. Hard to beat that guy's charisma, imho.
@FredOverflow No, that's not it.
Anyone here willing to send me all textbooks of their univs so I can study them.
23:42
@RMartinhoFernandes What?
Wasn't it about true ellipsis versus three dots?
I suppose it is one of those typographic legacy things that stuck around (due to Knuth/LateX?) with ligatures, serifs etc
@DzekTrek Hu?
@RMartinhoFernandes precisely
@RMartinhoFernandes Did you actually mean to say "No, that's not it." to me? Would make more sense to address @sehe, wouldn't it?
23:43
Id est, … vs ...
I'm pretty sure we're setting a record in room activity btw
31 users? We had more.
@FredOverflow textbooks from the subjects at your university.
@RMartinhoFernandes To be fair, . . . isn't a true ellipsis. It's just three dots with spaces in between. (Not that that doesn't stop people from writing it like that, just like people use -- for dashes.
The screen is getting scroll sick. I think I'm gonna rotate it 90deg so it can slow down for a moment
23:44
min1= 1;

printf("Enter a set of integers: ");

while (((input=getchar()) != '\n') && (input != EOF)){

if (input < min1){
min1 = input;
}

}
printf("%c", min1);
return 0;
@Maxpm That's what I meant.
why wont it print anything?
@DzekTrek You mean electronic books?
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah.
@LearningC just to annoy you
23:45
:D @FredOverflow yep :) I saw many universites have their own textbooks( papers ) for their own classes . @LearningC , dear God. :(
God. This music is delightful.
I need to know where they're getting it.
@LearningC Because printing the character with the code 1 won't give you anything visible.
if you're posting code here, at least FORMAT it? Remove the heaps of vertical space? (perhaps a room owner could move it to the bin?)
@LearningC that prints min1 as a character, you probably want to print it as a number. Also, please format the code or use ideone
In alexandrescu "Variadic Templates are Funadic" talk note : "This talk provides a solid coverage of variadic fundamentals, including typelists, the archetypal "safe printf" mechanics, and tuple construction and access. It also discusses more advanced uses, such as structured argument lists.." He didn't actually do that last part in the talk. Does everyone else know what can be structured argument lists ??
23:46
@MooingDuck The code looks like he actually wants a character, but initializing min1 to 1 is nonsense, because any real character will be bigger than that.
min1 = 127;   // this makes more sense
@FredOverflow Wait, what?
Oh wait, "Enter a set of integers"? Why do you use getchar to read "integers"?
    for(char input=getchar(); input!='\n'; input=getchar()) {
        if (input == EOL) break;
        //rest of your code
@ThomasPetit I thought that was about the printf thing.
@RMartinhoFernandes Starting with a minimum of 1 and then searching for a new minimum is not going to be successful.
23:48
But I got distracted near the end, so I could have missed it.
@ThomasPetit Also, hi.
I'm trying to get the minimum on a set of numbers
@FredOverflow oh, I missed that
@FredOverflow Ah, okay, I thought you meant character 127. Nevermind me.
@LearningC and change your browsers URL to stackoverflow.com where people will have more screen estate to answer your question if they are so inclined
@RMartinhoFernandes Well yeah, isn't 127 the highest character?
23:48
This room is for C++ and group hugging
4
@LearningC we're aware of that. But your code is all wrong, and we're pointed out three major concept errors so far
@FredOverflow No, it's actually 0x10FFFF.
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm pretty sure char can't hold 0x10ffff.
@FredOverflow 127 is highest value guaranteed to be held by char, 0x10FFFF is highest unicode code-point
Wait, why is min1 char?
23:49
I have done one version, finds minimum value of inputed chars. :)
@RMartinhoFernandes because his previous assignment read in chars that we did yesterday
@DzekTrek inputed, computed, outputed?
getchar returns an int.
Whatever you store the result of it in should be at least an int.
just input, output is a value
of the list of input chars
@LearningC std::cout << *std::min_element(std::istream_iterator<int>(std::cin), (std::istream_iterator<int>())) << std::endl;
23:51
@DzekTrek for inputing numbers bigger than nine, you don't want getchar, nor do you want to read them into a char
@sehe he's using C If I recall from yesterday
@sehe is that c++?
@MooingDuck the freak
@LearningC yes
@sehe , you are not helping him in any way. Now, when you posted that code, you can explain it to him.
@LearningC will fail if no input is supplied - Check for empty input :)
23:52
@MooingDuck is the best teacher here. He explains everything in the way that just listeners want to hear.
@DzekTrek No friggin way. He can ask questions on stackoverflow.com if he wanted answers? That way, he can even tag appropriately.
OK, but does he understand your implementation? As I can see, he doesn't even know how to fit that code into app.
@LearningC sehe does have a point. This is a community chatroom :(
@MooingDuck And it's called Lounge<C++> <-- note the ++ in C++
@MooingDuck I don't like getting flamed. Also don't want to clutter stackoverflow with stupid questions.
23:54
@sehe pft, this is the only one with people, so we get all the languages anyway. I've asked java questions here several times. Even got answers.
@MooingDuck You didn't come back daily about it.
@LearningC that's what it's for. Instead you're filling the chatbox with code. I love helping people, but...
@LearningC No question is stupid if you don't know the answer.
@LearningC Where's the logic in that? So you can clutter a chatroom. Haha
@MooingDuck OK, I will step aside, I have work to do.
23:55
@RMartinhoFernandes actually, I think there are stupid questions, but this isn't one of them
@sehe yea chat room don't get indexed by Google.
Yes, it does.
@LearningC so anyone else who needs help with your problem won't ever find it then
@LearningC So, just get the question out there, most often the comments will prod your question into the right direction. If you're really that ashamed of the questionjust delete it afterwards.
23:56
I don't have a problem with LearninC asking for help here, but conversely I don't have a problem with people commenting on that. I get the impression this chat is for everything and nothing.
@R. Martinho Fernandes : too bad, I thought Alexander was coming up with something new about variadic templates that have not been seen yet, but you are probably right.
@LearningC Oh my. So we suffer for your misinformed vanity complex. Great
@RMartinhoFernandes About 19,900,000 results
@sehe I think he's attempting to avoid flooding the internet actually.
Xeo
Xeo
Why not?
23:58
@MooingDuck that's a painful fear to have. I apologize
@Xeo recursion?

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