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5:16 AM
@Leoheart evening?
 
1 hour later…
6:43 AM
Morning.
6:55 AM
good morning
good morning folks
Morning
8:05 AM
@StackedCrooked hm i clicked my way up to higher and higher view number videos
so found one with quarter mill views
8:25 AM
morning all
now there's a reason to think about gl_frustrum
multiscreen rendering ftw :D
¬_¬ hmm... if you combined face tracking with fancy maths, you could manipulate the view frustum so that the player can move around to see the scene.
9:00 AM
worst video ever?
 
1 hour later…
10:16 AM
mawning
I really hope there's a special place in hell reserved for the people who so-called ported MIT Kerberos to Windows
@jalf that was a surprise
why?
that seemed to come out of nowhere :)
I assume you mean you are running into compatibility issues. Or do you just dislike the protocol?
The protocol is a pain, but that's because the problem it tries to solve is really hard, so I don't blame them for that
but the windows port is a complete mess
10:29 AM
Well, thats the extend part...
extend?
@jalf i seen to recall that windows has built-in support for kerberos
apparently the source code is only available from some fishy third party, and the build system used is VS.Net, and actually getting it to build is basically impossible, so we're just using the binary distribution
but it's buggy as hell
"Embrace, extend and extinguish," also known as "Embrace, extend and exterminate," is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors. Origin The strategy and phrase "embrace and extend" were first described outside Microsoft in a 1996 New York Times article entitled "Microsoft Trying to Dominate the Internet," in which writer John Markoff sa...
@Anders who exactly is extending?
10:30 AM
yes
@AlfPSteinbach It does. But using a completely different API, and in our case it's used through a layer of other libs (cURL, XMLRPC), which makes it impractical to switch to their implementation
yeah, and their last Windows release is something like 6 years old
and contains some absolutely trivial bugs
10:34 AM
so, six years old, then it can't possibly work?
throws a SEH exception if you run it in the debugger
because it uses the wrong function to close a handle
Well, most of the library works fine
oh, silly buggers
anyway, just need to vent a bit.
@Anders Microsoft has nothing to do with it. Microsoft has embraced the kerberos protocol, sure, and their implementation works fine and follows the standard as far as I'm aware. It's not their fault that a different distribution made by a bunch of unix hippies is buggy as shit
10:40 AM
I get the feeling I am wrong on this, but I thought Kerebos was a open source attempt at an interface with a closed source MS product that MS only develop for use on windows
Kerberos () is a computer network authentication protocol which works on the basis of "tickets" to allow nodes communicating over a non-secure network to prove their identity to one another in a secure manner. Its designers aimed primarily at a client–server model, and it provides mutual authentication—both the user and the server verify each other's identity. Kerberos protocol messages are protected against eavesdropping and replay attacks. Kerberos builds on symmetric key cryptography and requires a trusted third party, and optionally may use public-key cryptography by utilizing asymmet...
Per this article, it was developed at MIT
@TonyTheLion <reading>
Well they have extended it, but they added RFCs for some of it at least
I get it now. I am right in thinking that MS AD makes use of this
sbi
sbi
10:50 AM
I like this:
@thecoshman yeah, MS uses it heavily, but it wasn't developed by them
sbi
sbi
Sorry for spamming you. I'll stop now.
it's the primary authentication protocol for AD
@sbi you could just link to the source :P
sbi
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@thecoshman It's from two different sources. It's the same guy, though.
10:53 AM
@sbi ... then two links?
@sbi but they are cool :D
sbi
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@thecoshman :)
@thecoshman Yeah, they are.
[depressed]
@sbi I wonder if it is the same artist as did put little people like this around cities... I have a book at home (or parents house)
@IntermediateHacker <pushs restart>
[::depressed::]
<:"(>
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman The (German) article mentioned three artists who played with small figures, two of which they had images of. This one's I liked.
10:56 AM
@IntermediateHacker is that meant to be :'(
@thecoshman yes.
I hate hate mail. :(
@sbi well, I was sure it was just the one artist that was littering the cities with wee tiny people, perhaps it wasn't
@IntermediateHacker hate mail? who from?
I also hate moderators of stupid forum sites.
sbi
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Don't hold back! Let it all out.
@sbi oh, I saw a picture of some sort of learning to speak German book, had a really odd sentence. I forget how it foes exactly, but it was heavily based on farts :P
10:58 AM
I've been banned from a forum site (I won't name it) because of my nationality / religion etc. :(
>Perma ban! For being a f*cking terrorist!!!
@IntermediateHacker wow! that's serious dude. Was it just some punk kid mod, or is it a serious moderator who's decision is final?
Why were you on the rednecks of america forum?
2
@thecoshman no idea. and don't care, cuz I won't be going to that site anymore.
@Pubby lol.
@IntermediateHacker oh, you must be either Islamic or Middle East, because those guys are ALL trying to kill every one
@thecoshman um.. yeah.
sbi
sbi
11:01 AM
@IntermediateHacker Well, I can certainly understand that this is annoying and humiliating, but it's certainly not a technical problem. Get yourself some [email protected] address, and re-register.
@IntermediateHacker just to clarify, I am being sarcastic
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman I think he's both. (Well, it wasn't a xor, so you covered that...)
@sbi this is why I like programmers, 'or' dose not imply 'xor'. I hate wraiting 'and/or'
or worse, "and or or" ¬_¬
sbi
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@thecoshman Actually, "or" does imply "xor" in everyday-speak. It's just us programmers who insist on that not being the case.
11:05 AM
Too much of a 10 types of... thing yeah, not for the normies
@sbi perhaps I didn't phrase it well, but that is what I was [trying] saying
sbi
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@IntermediateHacker John Doe?
@sbi that's going to freak out those red-necks
on the fine points, xor on two values corresponds to either-or, but xor on 3 values does not correspond to either-or; instead, the either-or corresponds to "sum of boolean values converted to int, is 1". so there.
sbi
sbi
11:09 AM
@thecoshman Yeah, maybe I should have added a smiley. :)
@sbi that makes me wonder why we call them all smilies... the following is clearly a lickie :P
why did you guys make me think of this? there's all this stuff. like and is just minimum of the boolean values, and or is maximum.
now I'm ready to join again!
maybe i will get banned here for being a mind terrorist
11:12 AM
Well, you could or with 0x80000000 and get "minimum"
just to get it back on topic, why does C++ have a bitwise xor (namely ^) but not an xor for bool values?
sbi
sbi
I'm sorry, I can't help it, I just have to ask: Do you know what this is?
@sbi an 18th century dildo?
@AlfPSteinbach How would short-circuiting work for logical xor?
sbi
sbi
@IntermediateHacker Almost.
11:14 AM
@sbi it looks like some clever arrangement of things! indicative of an era in time, say 1950's
sbi
sbi
It's an early 20th century electric vibrator.
lol. I was pretty close.
sbi
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@IntermediateHacker Yeah, I said so.
A portable fun-sized death dispenser.
@sbi I am trying to imagine how it is supposed to be used, but I can't see how.
11:20 AM
I'm trying to imagine the girl who had the guts to use it.
@StackedCrooked the lady must utilize a servant. or a doctor. doctors in Europe used treat female "hysteria" by sexual stimulation
I think the cushions in the box can be placed on the head of the machine.
Female hysteria is a common medical diagnosis, made exclusively in women, which is today rarely recognized by modern medical authorities as a medical disorder. Its diagnosis and treatment were routine for many hundreds of years in Western Europe. Hysteria was widely discussed in the medical literature of the 19th century. Women considered to be suffering from it exhibited a wide array of symptoms including faintness, nervousness, insomnia, fluid retention, heaviness in abdomen, muscle spasm, shortness of breath, irritability, loss of appetite for food or sex, and "a tendency to cause tro...
sbi
sbi
I read that the first steam-powered vibrator was invented in 1869, and a electric one in 1883. Doctors welcomed them enthusiastically, because they relieved them from the manual work they applied for healing female patients of "hysteria".
@AlfPSteinbach Oh, you were faster. :)
@sbi FYI, most English speakers seem to consider dildo to be a catch all term for dildos and vibrators.
11:23 AM
"shortened treatment from hours to minutes" :)
sbi
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@thecoshman Really? That's so imprecise. Fuck them! :)
@sbi ¬_¬ Lame puncoon
the "treatment" ended when they came?
sbi
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@IntermediateHacker That was before female orgasm was as well known as it is today. It seems nobody considered this sex, because there was no penetration.
@IntermediateHacker yup
11:25 AM
//to translate to a common langauge.
class dildo{
};
class vibrator : public dildo{
};
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman This is two syntax errors.
@sbi semi-colons at end of class definition?
better?
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman Yep. These always totally screwed my students, as they caused absolutely mind-boggling errors in random std lib headers.
This is the thing that troubled me most after I tried learning C++ from C# a long time ago.
11:28 AM
@sbi I thought they where needed, but couldn't remember for sure. Java is stealing my Foo
GCC 4.7 started giving good error messages for missing semicolon
"all >10k users get notified about every flagged" I assume that this has been discussed in meta and will soon be fixed
@Pubby I would have thought though that it would fairly easy for the compiler to find what should be the matching closing brace and then check for a semi-colon
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman For years I taught C++ to students who had one year of previous exposure to Java. I think they had to unlearn more than they had to learn...
though I don't get why it is needed, I assume you can do some fancy stuff if you want to
sbi
sbi
@Pubby Oh, that's impressive!
11:32 AM
@sbi I can belive that
sbi
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@thecoshman struct { int i; } instance;
@thecoshman What are you trying to say in that message? I fail to parse something meaningful out of it.
@sbi ¬_¬ quote from newbie hints. I am proclaiming my dislike for such a mechanic. can users not decided which rooms they want to see flags for?
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman Ah, I see. I think this is seen as a feature.
@sbi one that makes me glad I am not 10k yet
@thecoshman look who's talking :)
11:41 AM
@sehe chip on shoulder by any chance?
@AlfPSteinbach probably already answered, but (bool)a != (bool) b is boolean xor
12:01 PM
#include <iostream>

bool allFalse( bool v ) { return !v; }

template< class... Args >
bool allFalse( bool v, Args... args )
{
    return allFalse( v ) && allFalse( args... );
}

bool eitherOr( bool v ) { return v; }

template< class... Args >
bool eitherOr( bool v, Args... args )
{
    return
        eitherOr( v ) && allFalse( args... ) ||
        allFalse( v ) && eitherOr( args... );
}

int main()
{
    using namespace std;

    cout << eitherOr( 0, 0, 0 ) << endl;        // 0
    cout << eitherOr( 0, 0, 1 ) << endl;        // 1
Nicer :)
I'd write this though
#include <iostream>

bool xclusiveOr( bool v ) { return v; }

template< class... Args >
bool xclusiveOr( bool v, Args... args )
{
    return
        xclusiveOr( v ) != xclusiveOr( args... );
}

int main()
{
    using namespace std;

    cout << xclusiveOr( 0, 0, 0 ) << endl;        // 0
    cout << xclusiveOr( 0, 0, 1 ) << endl;        // 1
    cout << xclusiveOr( 0, 1, 0 ) << endl;        // 1
    cout << xclusiveOr( 0, 1, 1 ) << endl;        // 0
    cout << xclusiveOr( 1, 0, 0 ) << endl;        // 1
Note that the truth tables differ.
Yeah my earlier suggestion didn't scale to n-ary (wasn't supposed to either). I'd just write this little bit shorter:
template< class... Args >
bool eitherOr( bool v, Args... args )
{
    return v && allFalse( args... ) || eitherOr( args... );
}
Granted, your version looks more consistent. Mine looks more c++ IMO
The compiler optimizes that
But it does not correct it ;-)
I need some help with decltype'ing a std::bind expression:
0
Q: Storing a list of rng's in a std::array for multithreading

rubenvbI'd like to multithread my rng part of my code using C++11. I create a bunch of RNG's like this: typedef std::mt19937 mersenne_twister; typedef std::uniform_real_distribution<double> unidist; // 8 rng engines with 8 consecutive seeds const size_t Nrng = 8; const array<uint32_t,Nrng>...

12:13 PM
@rubenvb Every computer science problem can be solved by an extra layer of indirection.
2
A: Level of Indirection solves every Problem

mikelongFrom the book Beautiful Code: All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of indirection," is a famous quote attributed to Butler Lampson, the scientist who in 1972 envisioned the modern personal computer. Although this is contradicted by Wikipedia who attributes the ph...

So, you know, like std::function?
so, a std::function<double()> would do the trick?
sbi
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Also called The Programmer's All-Purpose Remedy. :)
I don't know, but I would think in that direction. And perhaps also other directions. Like, is it really needed?
@AlfPSteinbach huh?
yes. i mean, out-of-the-box thinking. but it is perhaps not necessary. however, if you find yourself banging head against brick wall, then consider
12:25 PM
hey everyone
^ like that
lol, it's awesome.
lol.
well, true enough, all I need is an engine per thread.
oh wait, I forgot the bargain.
I'd still need the std::bind, unless there's another way to use the C++11 rng's?
12:29 PM
@sbi he he, little buggers! :-)
aha. I see how it's supposed to work now. Blame me for blindly copying tutorial code from the internets
Hey, the more I post
The more info about me
becomes visible!
This will probably show
my full name, medium gravatar
and rep.
can someone confirm for me:

boost::lexical_cast<bool>("true"); <---- throws a bad_lexical_cast ?
similarly for ("false")?
1:02 PM
afaik lexical_cast has no knowledge of natural language, nor any support for std::boolalpha
how does thread.join() work? Can I loop through a vector<thread>, joining each one, and then continue as if everything the threads did is done? Or do I have to check for each thread's function to return?
@IntermediateHacker home address, don't forget
@AlfPSteinbach okie dokie, thank you
@rubenvb I believe that works, allthough I'd be surprised if there isn't a more efficient thing (joinAll of some kind)
@sehe boost has a thread_group whose join function joins on all threads. I'd assume that's in std as well, but haven't checked
1:10 PM
I'm just not sure how control flows between two seperate join() statements? If the first thread is still running, will the second join be called already? What if I do something in between the two joins? When is that executed?
@rubenvb I think what I usually do is wait for condition variables. On UNIX a wellknown idiom is to write to an anonymous pipe from the thread, and then select(...) all these pipes in the main thread
@rubenvb join blocks until the thread you're trying to join exits
so when join returns, the thread has done everything it is going to do
@jalf so how can I multithread the join's?
@rubenvb of course not. the 'joining' is done on a single thread, it doesn't do some magic 'async' (that'd be funky: an async wait)
@rubenvb er, does not make sense
"join" basically means "wait for thread to exit"
1:12 PM
@rubenvb You need (a) condition vars (events in win32) or (b) semaphores
So you're saying you have a thread, it spawns a second thread, and then spawns a third thread for the sole purpose of waiting for the second one to exit?
Sounds like you need to take a step back then and consider what you're trying to achieve ;)
no, I have a vector<thread> of say 8 things to be done, I would just call join on each one (like in the "hello from thread" examples).
I seem to remember that creating a std::thread instance does not activate/run/create the underlying OS thread per se
That only (has to) happen(s) once join is called
@rubenvb just call join on each of them. You'll effectively be waiting for the slowest one, since the joins after that one will return immediately
or use a thread group, and call join once
@rubenvb hm, I highly doubt that. Got a source?
if that was true, then you could only ever have a single thread active
if new threads don't start until the parent blocks and waits for them to exit
ok, I must have misread the source I cannot seem to find
thanks
@jalf I know it is poor way to compare, but in Java, you create a thread object, but it will not start until you explicitly tell it to
1:18 PM
so once a std::thread is created (with arguments, otherwise its just an empty object) its execution starts, up until join is called, at which point I can be sure the function I passed to the thread has returned?
@rubenvb I think you got it mixed up with std::async (which has a deferred mode of operation. With horrible syntax, I might add)
@rubenvb After join returned. Do read up on std::future<> and std::async though. Bartosz Milewsky has some 'easy' nice tutorials online
@FredOverflow crist that book is from 2004.
How can I handle the Click Event of a button in Form A from Form B ?
@thecoshman You can do that with pthreads, but you have to explicitely tell it when creating the thread (with a 'suspended' attribute, IIRC)
I can pass template functions to std::thread, can't I?
1:29 PM
@Failed_Noob Context is missing. Also, search SO, I bet you meant C#? Expose an event
@rubenvb As long as you make them resolved, yes
ah, I need to specify template arguments, got it :)
decltype to the rescue
@thecoshman yeah, but in Java the thread object has a run function (or is it called start or something) :)
speaking of booksdoes anyone know a good book on the design of STL?
@jalf well, in Java you have thread objects that have a run function. But the 'prefered' way is to make an object runnable which means it has a run function, but you pass your runnable object into a separate thread object
@sehe is pthreads the C++11 threading library?
@thecoshman no pthread as POSIX thread on *nix
1:37 PM
ah gawd... friggin' GCC template type_traits errors O_°
@user800454 am I mistaken then in thinking that C++11 defined threads?
@thecoshman you also have GNU and Windows threads management that the OSs proved as an API
@thecoshman the whole point is that you don't need to worry about how threads are implemented - portability. Then again, I have more experience with pthreads than with std::thread, which is why I refer to pthreads whenever I'm not 100% sure the corresponding feature exists in c++11
@thecoshman C++11 added concurrency yes/
@thecoshman for more informaion on support under the Microsodft Visuyal Studio C++ compiler see here blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2011/09/12/10209291.aspx
@thecoshman there, you have found your match (@user800454) in making spelling mistakes
1:41 PM
@sehe I didn't notice :(
@sehe Sorry will try to run a "spell checker" ;-)
Oh, I see it now :P
@thecoshman the point is that you tell the thread when to start running, it doesn't wait until you call join
damn you clang for not having static_assert nor constexpr
@jalf indeed. would be very silly if treads did nothing until you declared you where waiting for them to finish :P
1:45 PM
Does anyone know a good book on the design of the standard library (STL)?
@user800454 I am sure some one does
wtf?
chaos.cpp:41:27: error: non-type template argument of type 'size_t' (aka 'unsigned long long') is not an integral constant expression
constexpr size_t N = 5e4;
---------------------------^
yes, it is, I even constexpr'ened it.
maybe I should ditch std::array
@thecoshman Not necessarily. It would be equally silly if any 'task' you start immediately started running around on it's own thread - especially in the presence of many threads. Under certain conditions you will see that a background thread will not start running unless you call future<>::get()
It is the classic reference
1:57 PM
@sehe you misunderstood there, I am saying it is silly if they wait until you say you need them to have finished. it is equally silly if you have no control over when they started
The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference [Hardcover]
Nicolai M. Josuttis (Author)
1100 pages!
I doubt if the standard library can truly be covered, even in 1100 pages.
@IntermediateHacker sure it can, the question remains though, how well can it be covered in 1100 pages
@IntermediateHacker well i'm a bit perplexed because as i remember it the book was josuttis and vandevoorde
1:59 PM
can anyone comment on these new C++11 features in the Standard Library?
The book covers all the new C++11 library components, including



Concurrency
Fractional arithmetic
Clocks and Timers
Random numbers and distributions
New smart pointers
Regular expressions
New STL containers
New STL algorithms
Tuple
I was reading some docs from HP +10years ago ... was not very useful on the design and deeper understanding.
I want to know how the memory allocation algorimes are working
in the standard library
@user800454 i don't think there's a C++ library specific book on that
I dunno why, but templates remind me a little of the preprocessor. I think that at some point the two are related.
@AlfPSteinbach same author as the other book (The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference)
2:01 PM
@user800454 Yup. tuples rock, clocks rock, random generators rock, smart pointers are good (and old), regular expressions - meh I prefer boost anyday, new containers (old... mostly unordereds), new algorithms (not really aware of which they are)
@user800454 you might check if p.j.plauger has written anything about it
@IntermediateHacker o_0 not sure if you are being serious there
@IntermediateHacker Yup. At the point of compilation
@AlfPSteinbach The Standard C Library (1992)
a classic
@sehe at the point of compilation?
2:03 PM
Dexter Seasons 1 & 2 were excellent - 3 sucks donkey balls
The C++ Standard Template Library [Paperback]
@IntermediateHacker "at some point they are related". I know which point :)
@user800454 also, andrei alexandrescu's "modern c++ design" contains a complete implementation of a small objects allocator. it's the one in the Loki library.
gotta go. gotta go. gotta go. gotta go. gotta go. gotta go. gotta go. gotta go.
~ Sorry for all the spam, gotta go.
^gotta go...
@user800454 the C library? Don't make me laugh. Also, random quotes from highest ranked reviews in excerpt:
2:06 PM
I think @Inter has gotta go
> His "C/C++ User's Journal" is brimming with non-portable Windows topics of little value to those interested in Standard C and, of course
> This book is a nice reference, but maybe you can better use Internet nowadays.
Then again, it was described as good, outstanding, interesting in the same reviews :)
@thecoshman I honestly don't know where you got that impression
@sehe an eldritch message
hi all
2:23 PM
mawning
@DeadMG I thought you lived in uk?
how does my statement contradict that?
non-sequitur
@DeadMG its half two bro
and?
that can't be morning?
it can, bro
2:35 PM
@DeadMG except it's not
any time of the day is mawning for puppy
his sense of time is messed up
I think the cat and I have similar ideas: morning is when I get up
that could make sense
ಠ_ಠ
Think it's possible to make a LR parser generator using templates?
2:38 PM
I doubt it
at least
you might be able to, but it would be hideously complex and take forever to compile
It's like tvtropes but worse.
Hideously complex: check
Takes forever to compile: check
(sidenote: don't pay too much attention to the introduction that Spirit generates recursive descent parsers. That at least doesn't cover the full potential of spirit)
wtf you smoking?
first, Spirit is LL
not LR
and secondly, it uses templates as an input mechanism, not as an actual generator
the rules are created at run-time
2:46 PM
@sehe a thread is not a task. And it is very silly to have a thread that doesn't behave like a thread. :)
@DeadMG good thing I mentioned - the other day - that I have been forgetting about most of formal parsing theory. sry
LL is little-girl parsing and LR is real parsing
  struct plus;
  struct id;
  parser<
    prod_list<struct S, prod<struct A, plus, struct B>, prod<id>>>
  >;
it's a mess, but I bet it could work
LL... LR... I don't know wtf your on about :D
@Pubby Use expression templates to generate the type list
2:48 PM
@DeadMG that is at the very least partially untrue. If you mean it is not tabledriven/optimized by default, ok. Even then, With Spirit Lex you can statically generate the lexing tables anyway.
@DeadMG Show an example? Not too familiar with them.
firstly, Spirit.Lex is not a parser, and secondly, it isn't ever compile-time generated
I use them to generate my lexer
Why is it that my intelligently titled , useful & educational fb page has only 3 likes while my cousin's "Arab girls are sexy bitches!!!" page has got > 17000 likes?
damn facebookers.
because humans are driven for sex more than anything else
no surprised
@IntermediateHacker because your cousin knows his TA
2:57 PM
@IntermediateHacker fabehookers, FTFY
is there something like a bimap in c++0x?
@bamboon C++11 ftfy

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