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17:00
@LightnessRacesinOrbit LMAO.
@ThePhD also works fine in 2015 RC, but no real surprise since that didn't really bring any C++ changes :v
@AlexM. do you mind sending me a few slices? I'm at KTH in Stockholm, thanks.
@FilipRoséen-refp Givin' a lecture?
@Columbo no, too lazy to head home - I'll grab a few beers in the city with a few friends in a couple of hours (meaning that it doesn't really make sense to go "all the way" to my flat, only to return here quie soon)
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, we all know how that's gonna end! :P
Walkin' home at 6am, nutter
17:11
@Columbo not tonight, definitely not
@FilipRoséen-refp How's that
@Columbo I'm not feeling too well, far from it actually - long story short; the body isn't doing what it is supposed to.
@FilipRoséen-refp Wow, that's not nice to hear. Had one to many smokes?
@Columbo At least one too many (given that one is one too many).
@Columbo apparently my vitamin D-levels are mad low (paraphrasing my doctor, but he thought there was something wrong with the test at first), just started taking supplements but there are more tests to be run - so they don't know what is going on just yet
17:14
@JerryCoffin Totally agree on that one.
I reckon it could be related to my consumption of smokes, but I'm too grumpy without 'em to find out
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, I told'ya. Lack of discipline.
@Borgleader I added u 2 friends on steam xoxo
@Columbo sure, but I don't mind
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, it's your body, after all. Wreck it as you please.
17:16
@Columbo exactly
@FilipRoséen-refp I had this mate while I was in school in Germany, he was smoking fairly often. He said he would appreciate an early death (<60y), as life "tends to be less enjoyable at a high age"
I told him that 60 years is fairly optimistic under his circumstances
Though I'm not sure I was in the right.
@Columbo that's not my view of life though, but I've never been to good at making decisions that will affect things further down the road. if "living in the moment" is a curse, I suffer from just that
I wish people stopped smoking in public places here :<
it's really annoying to like wait for the green light with a guy who's smoking in front of you
@Columbo I always wonder about people like that. 1) he's clearly never actually been 60+ to see whether such life is fun or not. 2) most of the elderly people I've known seemed fairly happy.
17:19
@AlexM. He's not allowed to do so, IIRC.
some idiot chose Python for some docs
now I can't build the project cos the Python is broken and I don't know how to fix it and he's gone
@AlexM. I'm a smoker, so maybe I shouldn't jump in on that discussion - but at least I try not to smoke "up in someones face". If I'm walking in a crowded area I either refrain from smoking, or try to hold my smoke until there's a little room for me to let it out
@Columbo yes, but I haven't seen policemen fine people for it yet
@JerryCoffin He was an intelligent guy, though.
ImportError: cannot import name blah blah blah
17:19
in what country/state is it illegal to smoke when waiting for a green light?
Xeo
Xeo
We have a ban on smoking on train platforms (with special areas designated where it's allowed) but nobody respects it. :<
@FilipRoséen-refp You could potentially sue someone for bodily injury.
technically, it's illegal to smoke in public places in my city but I haven't seen people get punished for it yet
@Columbo that highly depends on what country you are in
Xeo
Xeo
And since platforms are usually unsupervised, there's not much those people have to fear.
I don't particularly like smokers - but what I really hate are ignorant smokers.
17:21
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, you can do that in most countries. Whether that case is closed in your favor is another question.
@Xeo +1
@Xeo it's illegal to smoke in-doors, and some platforms are considered to be just that - and people respect that here in Sweden. Sure, during the early hours when a lot of people are drunk you occasionally see someone light a smoke, but people often start complaining and ask them to leave
@AlexM. In Colorado for a while, there was a ban on smoking cigarettes in bars, and (at that time) it was illegal to smoke pot in general--but the fine for smoking pot was much lower than the fine for smoking a cigarette in the bar.
@Xeo S-Bahn Stege?
Xeo
Xeo
@Columbo ye
@Columbo that's one really stupid way to put it, but whatever floats your boat
17:22
@Xeo Aber geiler ist der Alkoholverbot. Du hättest die Bahnen nach dem Abschiedssaufen sehen sollen.
@FilipRoséen-refp Pardon?
@Columbo "you can sue people for whatever reason you want, but if the case will actually go to court is another matter"
@FilipRoséen-refp NO
@Columbo so what are you saying?
Xeo
Xeo
@Columbo Oh fuck's sake, don't remind me. I've had enough annoying experiences with drunk football fans in trains.
Now it's legal to smoke pot in Colorado, so smoking pot in a bar is the same as smoking a cigarette in a bar (i.e., when pot became legal, the fine for smoking it in a bar increased).
17:23
@FilipRoséen-refp I said if that is "closed in your favor". And with "suing" I meant actually getting in court with it.
Well, okay.
Tbf that is very probably gonna be unsuccessful
And quite probably it's not gonna make it into court
@Columbo that would never happen in northern part of europe, as an example (ie. such case would not get any court time)
@FilipRoséen-refp Yeah, unfortunately not :(
and in other countries (besides the US) I doubt that it will get far
Boy was that stupid lol
HI DID SOMEONE SAY 'RACISM'
17:25
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Only you, troll (at least recently, around here).
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He who smelt it dealt it
R A C I S M - I N - T H E - L O U N G E
seriously, someone flagged that?
flag this, mofo.
@FilipRoséen-refp Columbo and Cicada are on a flagging spree lately.
17:26
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What? No, I'm not
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ffs, stop that
I like the difference between the no-smokers and smokers area in my local bistro
@Xeo Stop what? Oh so never mind the annoying flaggers now I'm the problem for bringing it up? Jesus, man.
only pics I could find :(
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The finger-pointing.
17:26
@Xeo Yeah because nobody finger-points at me.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You should stop accusing me (or Cicada) of flagging when you clearly neither have any evidence nor reason to assume it.
I'm constantly accused of being the flagger, mostly by those two.
So leave me the frak alone.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit WHEN DID I ACCUSE YOU OF SHIT
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That sounds like a kindergarden argument :/
Come at me bro!
@Columbo you accuse everyone of shit all the time.
Not got the energy to deal with this nonsense from you today.
@FilipRoséen-refp WHAT WHEN WHERE HOW
Xeo
Xeo
(It's also what smokers like to say when I ask them to stop smoking in a non-smoking area - "but others are doing it too!")
@Columbo the backlog; read it.
17:28
@Xeo "Why are you putting using-directives into headers!?"
@FilipRoséen-refp "All the time." I'm not accusing anyone of anything "all the time". Maybe every now and then.
And what's the backlog? The transcript?
@Xeo Preschool. Most children have learned better techniques by kindergarten.
@Columbo whatever floats your boat.
@Xeo (I wasn't defending what I was doing. I was accusing you of playing favourites again.)
Xeo
Xeo
@JerryCoffin kindergarten is pre-preschool. no?
17:29
@FilipRoséen-refp Please, pretty please, show me when I accused someone.
@Xeo after preschool here
Xeo
Xeo
wat
preschool is pre school. kindergarten is at the start of school.
Xeo
Xeo
Actually, I guess we don't have a preschool.
In Ger: Kindergarten -> Vorschule -> Grundschule
@Xeo We do. My brother was in one IIRC.
Xeo
Xeo
17:30
@Columbo Wir ham ne Vorschule?
@Columbo just read through the messages that contains a reference to myself, as an example.
Xeo
Xeo
Never noticed
seriously, wtf's wrong with my python
3
Xeo
Xeo
I always thought of it as Kindergarten -> Elementary School
inb4 out-of-context star
17:30
@FilipRoséen-refp Yeah, yesterday. And you're special :)
Xeo
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Is it Monty?
@Columbo and you are baboon.
I'm so hungry my stomach makes medium pitched noises
@FilipRoséen-refp Alright, alright, sorry. I knew I digged myself into something there.
sometimes I wish I was one of those "oh you stupid fuck, I'll plonk your ass" kind of people
that didn't get flagged?
weird
Xeo
Xeo
17:32
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I certainly don't consider Columbo or Cicada favourites of mine, I just notice you doing it. Think of it this way: I like you so much that I actually pay attention to what you're writing. :D
@FilipRoséen-refp And sometimes I wish I could be honest with people. I'm bad at saying no or telling someone what I think straight in the face.
I should work on that. Just recently I was almost persuaded to do a photoshoot for my colleges marketing campaign or whatever
On the topic of defending what I was doing, though, over the last few weeks there has been plenty of circumstantial evidence to begin assuming a certain pattern.
I didn't just randomly come up with it to spite someone. It's a very strong suspicion.
I had to blow that off with an email after temporarily accepting
17:34
@Columbo I'm not sure why you are telling me this, especially since you have made it very clear that I lack any form of discipline. What on earth could I say to help you with your issues?
Take that how you will...
I'm also pissed off today, not aided by all that anti-LRiO bullshit over there on the starboard for all to see ----->
@FilipRoséen-refp I'm not saying you lack discipline entirely, just to the extent that you can't stop taking a seriously harmful drug. (You did write long articles. That was a good effort.)
@FilipRoséen-refp Idk you're good at C++, maybe you're good with advise :)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit serious question: If I have a sentence such as "This might sound confusing, but by *some rationale, it effectively says something", does it contain too many commas?
@Columbo Isn't IDK an acronym for "I Don't Know"?
@FilipRoséen-refp no but I'd move the second comma one word along - you're essentially creating a parenthetical containing the metainformation "by *some rationale*", and using commas to delimit that parenthetical. The "raw" sentence is just "This might sound confusing but it effectively says something". Written like this I hope you can see the number of commas is just right. :)
17:36
@FilipRoséen-refp Yep
@FilipRoséen-refp Nothing about his sentence makes sense anyway
@FilipRoséen-refp Or, occasionally, "I don't kare"
IT'S HERE
@AlexM. I'd like a slice of that juicy stuff
@AlexM. that was quick
17:38
@LightnessRacesinOrbit too many fancy words, I can't understand what you are saying to be honest. But having a sentence such as "This might sound confusing, but by not ordering pizza, Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket", how would you put it?
> This may sound confusing but, by not ordering pizza, Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh alright, now I see what you are saying, thanks!
If you really wanted the pre-"but" comma then you'd do this (which I think is too many cos it's unwieldy):
> This may sound confusing, but, by not ordering pizza, Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket.
Another alternative is to let the parenthetical kinda "sink into" the sentence
> This may sound confusing, but by not ordering pizza Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket.
I wouldn't usually do this but it works well enough for short sentences
now I realize that that sentence isn't really the issue I'm facing, I'll get back to you in a little while - thanks for the input, @LightnessRacesinOrbit
np @FilipRoséen-refp
Xeo
Xeo
17:42
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You can never have too many commas!
OH: "A good german sentence isn't complete without at least 5 commas."
it's somewhat weird, but I would actually enjoy having a beer with @LightnessRacesinOrbit where he shuts me up every two seconds because of me misusing the English grammar
Xeo
Xeo
shameless self-plug
@Xeo I like my German sentences with barely any commas in them.
@FilipRoséen-refp Why are you not attending the unconference then.
17:43
@Columbo because I'm bad at planning shit, I don't know what I will be up to during the relevant dates
I might crash it though
@FilipRoséen-refp Also, I almost forgot: How would you even pay for the train ticket? Aren't you struggling with your rent itself?
@Columbo I am, literally (struggling). Three weeks to come up with the rent for the past two months, otherwise I will lose my apartment.
@FilipRoséen-refp lol
@FilipRoséen-refp ouch
@Columbo I don't know if you are trying to be funny or something, though it isn't that funny to me
Woah, that sucks.
17:45
@FilipRoséen-refp I am not!
@FilipRoséen-refp In this case the one-comma version ("This might sound confusing, but by not ordering pizza Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket") is clearly best. With two (or three) commas you've turned the "by not ordering pizza" into a "parenthetical aside". For that to be correct the sentence should maintain essentially the same meaning if that's omitted. In this case, that loses enough information that doing it is really incorrect.
@Columbo then why on earth would you phrase it that way?
That was a genuine question, I thought perhaps it got better.
@FilipRoséen-refp What way? I was just wondering how you'd get to London.
I think/hope it will sort itself out though, my father said that he could pitch in - but I'd like to work it out myself
@FilipRoséen-refp My sister effectively had the same dilemma.
@FilipRoséen-refp Did you get donations, i.e. did the "banner" on batch.se help?
17:47
if all goes well I won't be having this problem for much longer, as I'm currently in the middle of a recruitment process
@FilipRoséen-refp Are you founding a C++ army?
@Columbo I got a little less than $100 in total, so that helped pay for food since the article got published
@Columbo erhm, no?
@FilipRoséen-refp What are you recruiting for, then?
Xeo
Xeo
Z++ - Zombie Code
@Columbo Google
17:49
@FilipRoséen-refp What?
or well, I'm not recruiting - they are recruiting, as google does
@FilipRoséen-refp They asked you to recruit?
@Columbo trying to be funny again?
@FilipRoséen-refp Wtf do you mean!?
I just want to know what you're recruiting for and/or why, srsly now
@Columbo what do you mean by that question? I'm in the middle of the interview process with google, for a position as software engineer
17:50
@FilipRoséen-refp oh lol! I thought you're recruiting. Sorry, misunderstood the above phrase. That makes a lot more sense.
> as I'm currently in the middle of a recruitment process
^ that I misunderstood
@Xeo It was invented after Bjarne literally turned around in his grave when unsigned u{0}; started turning up everywhere
I should get cracking on the next article, three more planned and time is running out (as always)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I ordered it before I left work
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not so if you get stuck somewhere
Then again, that may be unlikely, so
I still have to wait some 15 mins when I get home anyway, so there's buffer for delays
17:53
Sorry, Louis, but you couldn't be any more wrong about types than you are right now. #cppnow
Who's this Louis?
> Guriwesu
Some silly type of person
@Jefffrey Louis Dionne, the Boost.Hana guy.
Boost.Hanna.Barbera
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "It is important to note that a declaration of an alias template does not introduce a template-id, even though a template-id is used to refer to a specialization of such alias. This might sound confusing, by by not introducing a template-id, the ISO C++ Standard effectively says that it can be neither partially- nor explicitly specialized." <- something like that (the second sentence) - does it look ok?
17:55
@Jefffrey He thinks he made types first-class citizens in C++ by wrapping templates in constexpr functions so you can use regular C++ syntax for metaprogramming.
@Columbo God that is horrible (it should obviously be auto u {0u};).
@JerryCoffin Is that a smiley at the end, with nice hair };)
@Columbo ...and a wink.
@FilipRoséen-refp "by"^2
17:56
@Jefffrey And he thinks that "you can't use runtime integers at compile time, so they are not first-class?" is a counterargument for "your types aren't first class because you can't store them in a homogeneous container" :/
assuming s/by/but/ then yes, modulo the stuff I talked about above. you're using your first variant with the comma before "by" which, as I said, I wouldn't personally use.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh sorry, I didn't copy paste because the text is on my laptop and not the computer I'm currently lurking Lounge<C++>. It is supposed to be "but by"
@LightnessRacesinOrbit uni computer + personal laptop, I don't want to connect the two to be honest
18 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
> This may sound confusing but, by not ordering pizza, Filip will be able to buy more food at the local supermarket.
apply all above rationale to the new, C++-related sentence.
17:58
@Griwes any more info on this? I'm interested.
@Jefffrey Oh, and he then explicitly said that his types are not objects, which kind of contradicts his own completely wrong claim.
@FilipRoséen-refp Google Boost.Hana.
Silly man for contradicting a wrong claim
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ah great, thanks!
@Griwes link?
It's not an official boost library yet.
17:58
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you're right, cpt america does really feel like an avengers spin off
@Griwes oh, Boost.Hana - no need to google
bus departures site is down :( no idea when it'll arrive at the bus stop, which is 10 mins' walk away
and the buses are every 15 mins or so. and it's cold and windy
@AlexM. :)
@FilipRoséen-refp Hana is kind of neat, but his claims about types magically becoming first-class are ridiculous.
how do you remember that statement wow
I'm gonna watch last year's cpt america in a bit
and remembered about that
18:00
@Griwes it is kind of neat, but he also breaks some formal wording in the standard (by assuming things which are not necessarily true) - at least he did in earlier versions
is there a way to watch the C++Now presentations?
I don't like that the useless superhero chick is still around
@FilipRoséen-refp "It is important to note that a declaration of an alias template does not introduce a template-id, even though a template-id is used to refer to a specialization of such alias. Since the alias does not introduce a template-id, the ISO C++ Standard effectively says that it can be neither partially- nor explicitly specialized."
she should've been replaced with hulk or sth
@FilipRoséen-refp Dunno. I'm not using it, and I won't be using it. Still, even if he did something not quite in a compliant way, that wouldn't be as fucking bad as the claims about first-classness.
18:00
actually hulk should be able to replace all the avengers in reality
IIRC atomic bombs couldn't kill him
@caps We are recording them, they will be available on YouTube channel called BoostCon later this year.
and he only died in some separate universe where he decayed
risking bus stop trip bye
@JerryCoffin that's a neat sentence, and I had something similar to that at first but then I thought that "hey, it might make sense to explicitly say that it might sound confusing" since it is
@LightnessRacesinOrbit since you didn't comment on that, the usage of "can" + "neither" + "nor" was correct in the sentence? "A frog without legs can neither jump nor kick", right? The equivalent of "A frog without legs cannot jump or kick", correct?
@FilipRoséen-refp Yes. (The latter two parts, at least.)
18:08
@FilipRoséen-refp In this case the chance for confusion seems sufficiently obvious that it doesn't seem, to me, that it needs explicit acknowledgement.
@JerryCoffin "sufficiently obvious"? Didn't you mean to say that it was, idk, sufficiently 'small' or sth.?`
@Columbo No, I mean the preceding sentence was confusing enough that there's no need to acknowledge that people may be confused by it--it's roughly equivalent to explicitly stating that water in liquid form is actually wet.
@Columbo no, I reckon "sufficiently obvious" is exactly what he wanted to say.
@JerryCoffin Oh, sorry, missed the context. Or rather, misread the phrase.
this is a pretty badass kickstarter pitch
> Koji Igarashi (五十嵐 孝司 Igarashi Kōji?) born March 17, 1968, also known simply by the nickname IGA, is a video game designer and former producer of the Castlevania video game series.
already at
> $2,020,386
pledged of $500,000 goal
with 28 days to go
18:23
@FilipRoséen-refp If I were to add something about its being confusing, I'd probably make it a separate sentence: "It is important to note... That's pretty confusing, so let's (break it down a bit | analyze what that really means). The alias does not..."
> error: declaration does not declare anything
Gee, thanks.
18:45
@EtiennedeMartel I do declare Etienne, that does sound like a problem!
@JerryCoffin I took your advice and changed it into "This might seem rather confusing but, by not introducing a template-id, the ISO C++ Standard effectively says that: <list of things>"
@FilipRoséen-refp Isn't his covered by numerous SO answers? Why bother rewriting it?
@Columbo because I want my articles to be self-contained, only linking to additional resources for additional information - not mandatory knowledge (where this makes sense)
evening
@FilipRoséen-refp Another question: What is the target group of your articles?
18:49
@Columbo people who write C++, starting from (lower) intermediate level and up. My reference is the knowledge the better students of the course I was lecturing in has reached.. pretty much
@Columbo I mean, one could sum up the articles with "read the standard, here's the code", but that doesn't really play well with those not familiar with the standard wording
19:05
Scottish is a beautiful language. Warning, Scottish.
@thecoshman Why don't I find the next video really convincing??
maybe because there's no German in it for you to hear
^ Yeah, I was missing it somehow.
I well understand what the guy's telling though :-P ...
19:21
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't get any :(
Inventions by @Cicada
@Columbo but I has browser?
@thecoshman Trust me, it's fucking awesome.
@Columbo I has browser :\
@thecoshman Good for you. How long does it take to search for "vector data" on cppreference when "starting" from your IDE?
About five for me
Okay, three is ridiculous lol
Or less, but the point is, it's really comfortable to use it
19:30
@Columbo alt+tab, ctrl+t, "!cpp vector data"
@thecoshman Nah mate
alt+tab to my browser
ctrl+t to make a new tab
"!cpp vector data" because I am not a scrub and set up a custom search in chrome.
@thecoshman Well, I'd press cpp tab vector data
@thecoshman Also, what makes you think that one tab will suffice to get you to your browser
@Columbo I could just have it "c vector data" if I want.
@thecoshman You goddamn champ
19:32
@Columbo I wanted to search that site.
If I wanted wikipedia, I used "!w"
failing that, just serach google
@thecoshman Er, wait that's not what I meant
I presume that crappy extension will just search google anyway
@thecoshman Nope
why not use a tool actually built for viewing websites
It goes directly to cppreference.com \o/
@thecoshman I do, it's called a browser
19:33
... only to cppref?
@thecoshman To cppreference, wikipedia, google, anything you want
The setup is minimalistic
tell you what, have that key combo open a text box, and have what I ever I enter into that entered into a new tab in my browser.
Just providing http://en.cppreference.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search={term}‌​&button= to the extension, then you do "Ctrl space c space vector data enter"
then you can save me alt+tabbing a few times to get to my browser and having to make a new tab.
because I really struggle to alt+tab and make a new tab
@thecoshman I do. That costs me about a second or two.
19:36
oh I'm sorry, what happened?
@thecoshman My previous way was significantly longer, so the extension is objectively beneficial.
@Columbo no I meant what happened to cripple you so that it takes so long to get a new tab open.
@thecoshman "Alt tab [tab] Ctrl t" is emotionally restraining
infact, that's a more useful thing, something like super+t to open a new tab in the may last active chrome window. Then, super+t "!cpp fuck you"
@thecoshman Wait, why am I even talking to a dirty Pirate
19:42
@Columbo because I am mocking you
and you know you deserve it
@thecoshman I am masochistically inclined anyway. That backfired huh
@Columbo sure did
@thecoshman I'm just kidding, but it backfired
That's why you're a skeleton
@thecosh free robot hugs for everyone at the Unconference.
And I'm working in the homicide squad in Los Angeles
Bitches better be hidin' their corpses or some shit
19:46
@Columbo no, that's a long story
@thecoshman Does it start with a gay flight steward in Canada?
Idk if this was too offensive or not
crouches and runs
you're a gay flight steward in Canada
@Columbo highly offensive, why would I be in Canada?
@Columbo that's quite the skill
@R.MartinhoFernandes yay

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