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08:00
@fredoverflow Yes
@fredoverflow you... live in Germany... how have you never heard of suicide before?
also, why do I find it so hard to spell heard correctly?
I keep trying to spell it with an extra e, 'heared'
I heared it's hard to spell heard
I hert to.
heart*
That hurt
08:03
@Cicada it did :'(
:)
chickens save the day
@thecoshman The best Java apps are usually structured around an alley and a notch. Would you infer suicide from that?
How is that related to Markus Persson at all
@fredoverflow I'm actually surprised you don't associate chair+rope with suicide, it's a popular image in common culture, I believe
It's either language-specific, or I'm dumb. Or my perspective on life is unusually positive. Which I seriously doubt.
Or Germans generelly prefer other methods of suicide.
Hey um can I post my meta question here?
I think it's pretty relevant to SO in general
I think we prefer throwing ourselves in front of the train. Must be our appreciation of punctuality. German trains are almost always on time.
@Cinch I don't see why not, many meta questions have been posted here in the past.
08:10
@fredoverflow s/mos/pos
@fredoverflow Could be
0
Q: Should we downvote misinformed questions, even if they are fixed?

CinchI've been a member of Stack Overflow for about a year, and I've been question banned for about a month. Here's the question that I especially am focusing on: Does the change in lower bounds for the char type in C++14 break compatibility with ones' complement systems? While the original question...

@fredoverflow no, rape.
@fredoverflow but it's a classic
@fredoverflow I mean is it really that bad?
tie the rope to a beam in the ceiling, because everyone has exposed beams. then stand on a wobbly chair and 'fall' off.
@fredoverflow but that's such a dick move, some one has to clean you guts up
08:14
QQ
#cinch-put-down-by-the-men
why can't I give bounty to myself?
s/ounty/lowjob/
@Cicada heheheheeheheheh
Don't get me wrong, my answer is the only answer to my question
@khajvah What question
08:16
2
Q: Nginx and gunicorn are not displaying the whole page (caching issue)

khajvahI have a django application, which works fine on django's server. I just configured it to work with nginx and gunicorn. Almost every page works just fine except for one of them. It is a pretty big page, which consists of 4 select(dropdown) menus with 1000 entries in each and all that is sent by a...

I'm bored.
Time to see /r/programming for entertainment.
@Rapptz Help proofread my C++ tutorial
go to /b/
@Cinch I'll never be that bored.
@Rapptz Keep me posted
Ven
Ven
08:18
@Rapptz learn web programming
Or that bored either.
17 views/0 upvotes or downvotes
You know what?
I don't want you to look at it
> Pre-Pooping Your Pants With Rust (cglab.ca)
Boy am I hyped.
This should be good.
And so am I by proxy
such a tl;dr
doesn't even seem interesting :(
just a Rust bug
08:20
Rust looks good
I should learn it
not sure how that's okay but whatever
@Cinch I can downvote, if you want
/r/programming is boring
Maybe I should work on lucpm instead.
dutch football fans are amazing
user1804599
Woo, it works great!
user1804599
08:27
func (s *State) PushFunc(f func() int) {
    fptr := (*func() int)(C.lua_newuserdata(s.state, C.size_t(unsafe.Sizeof(f))))
    *fptr = f
    s.keepAlive = append(s.keepAlive, f)
    C.lua_pushcclosure(s.state, (*[0]byte)(C.rehash_lua_closure), 1)
}
user1804599
Having two GCs is so much fun.
Ven
Ven
:|
:^|
Mill calls Python calls Lua. GC inception.
Who can catch the NULL ptrs fitrst?
user1804599
08:30
@Ven no stackful coroutines, no beer
What's the big deal about coroutines, anyways?
user1804599
This still suffers from the same problems Clojure's core.async and C#'s async/await suffer from.
user1804599
@Cinch They are typically cheaper than threads, so you can spawn many more of them, and they can be scheduled in more controlled manners.
@Rapptz ugh reddit and C++ = badness
08:35
@Rapptz nice
r/cpp is typically okay
few badlets here and there
meh, it's mediocre at best
user1804599
process is called for each value yielded by gather in parallel.
@rightfold Uh...
But they're not even multithreaded, from the examples I've seen
It's like they pass the thread of execution from one function to another for a sort of systematic execution path rather than an imperative one.
user1804599
08:42
You can resume a coroutine on any thread, you fool.
user1804599
You have a thread pool on which you resume coroutines.
user1804599
If you have 8 CPUs, you spawn 8 threads that wait on a queue to resume coroutines.
user1804599
This is what Mill does.
@rightfold I don't get it.
user1804599
OK.
08:44
Unless you start multiple threads from a coroutine or coroutine handler, coroutines themselves aren't a primary multithreading mechanism
@Cinch It's the same as scheduling threads on cores.
Only cores become threads and threads become coroutines.
user1804599
A computer can't do more things simultaneously than it has CPUs, so spawning 500 threads if you have only 8 CPUs would be stupid.
user1804599
However, while programming, you don't want to be bothered with horrible cruft like callbacks or futures, so you use coroutines instead.
Unless they block on I/O
user1804599
The coroutines are then resumed on one of the threads, and paused when they start doing I/O, and resumed when the I/O finishes.
08:45
@Cicada cough hyperthreading cough
@rightfold So what exactly is a couroutine for? From the examples I've seen, it seems that it just calls a funciton that returns to another line of execution
And that line can be another coroutine
@Griwes what about it
user1804599
A coroutine is a thread of execution.
user1804599
Note that I didn't say "OS thread" or "std::thread", just "thread".
user1804599
It's a call stack and a place to retain registers in while paused.
08:47
@rightfold Can you reiterate in a different way?
user1804599
No.
Can we give priorities to threads?
user1804599
Coroutines are computer program components that generalize subroutines for nonpreemptive multitasking, by allowing multiple entry points for suspending and resuming execution at certain locations. Coroutines are well-suited for implementing more familiar program components such as cooperative tasks, exceptions, event loop, iterators, infinite lists and pipes. According to Donald Knuth, the term coroutine was coined by Melvin Conway in 1958, after he applied it to construction of an assembly program. The first published explanation of the coroutine appeared later, in 1963. == Comparison with... ==
user1804599
> Coroutines are computer program components that generalize subroutines for nonpreemptive multitasking, by allowing multiple entry points for suspending and resuming execution at certain locations.
@rightfold ...yeah I read the article
The example they give is just some sort of reader that passes to the writer and then back based on a requirement
user1804599
08:49
For example:
user1804599
function a() { pause(); print("1"); pause(); print("2"); }
function b() { a() }
coro = new coroutine(b)
coro.resume() // prints 1
coro.resume() // prints 2
user1804599
You also have pseudocoroutines like the ones C# and Python offer which can only pause from b, not from a.
user1804599
They're based on a state machine generation hack. Avoid whenever possible.
@rightfold Look at the Wikipedia example
Their example seems pretty doable without coroutines
I could easily write a while loop to do this
user1804599
So?
user1804599
08:50
Who cares about that example?
@Cinch You can also implement it all in Brainfuck, but that's not the point.
@rightfold Uh I do which is why I'm bringing it up
No but what's the big buzz about coroutines
what are the benefits?
user1804599
It is this what is exciting:
user1804599
function a() { pause(); print("1"); pause(); print("2"); }
function b() { a() }
thread_pool = new thread_pool()
coro = new coroutine(b)
thread_pool.post(function() {
    coro.resume()
    thread_pool.post(coro.resume)
})
user1804599
Now print can internally use async I/O, and the programmer won't have to be bothered with it.
user1804599
08:52
That's why coroutines are godsend.
Now to do fair scheduling
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, they god a bit scolded by management for that
@rightfold you mean like std::endl or std::flush?
@Cicada There's no such thing as "fair scheduling".
user1804599
No, like Boost.Asio.
08:54
Especially since some threads of execution are inherently more important.
user1804599
@Cicada You can have preemption with this model; see Erlang.
@Griwes Hence my comment
user1804599
But even then, you can still spawn OS threads if you're interested in parallelism especially (see forkOS in Haskell).
@rightfold So let me get this straight: we can use coroutines to pause our line of execution until we meet some sort of requirement in order to save scheduling or CPU time.
@Cicada Okay. That carried over the wire in a terrible way (or, not at all).
08:55
It replaces the while(not done)
They work with your system to get out of the way when it can.
@Griwes It was intended to be interpret like, "now, to cure cancer"
> warning: 'processEvent' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override' [-Winconsistent-missing-override]
is that @rightfold?
Neat.
user1804599
Alright.
09:00
g'day!
cool picture @rightfold
user1804599
Thanks.
I didn't notice it at first.
Yay!
09:07
I'm actually bored enough to try going to sleep.
@Rapptz Sleep is good.
You've all disappointed me etc.
I had 6 hours of sleep last night, but have been having 9 hours on average for the past few days so I am not sleep deprived ...
@chmod711telkitty noice
I need new headphones, I forgot mine in one of the things that went into the laundry machine :')
to the sennheisermobile
user1804599
09:21
Why is _G nil?
5 hours sleep. 3 coffees and counting.
@Nisk Sleep
@Cinch I just made it into work, I think people might frown upon it if I do :)
@Nisk Oh.
You must be... About New Mexico/Texas?
Ireland, EU
it's 10am here
09:25
@Nisk "just made it into work"
at 10am WHAT.
I start at 10 too
@khajvah What kind of work does this
coding
naturally
we are programmers
@Nisk That's interesting.
I'm used to waking up to get somewhere by 9:30 or 9
09:26
we(programmers) can even work from home
@Cinch I go to work at 12
beat that
@AlexM. Cinch is unemployed, beat that
@khajvah I'm a college student on scholarship.
In state living at home
Whatcha gonna do?
@khajvah I don't think there's anything to beat there
Hey @FilipRoséen-refp awesome article about constexpr
09:28
@AlexM. No violence allowed here.
how is scholarship relevant here?
The technique employed is similar to what boost::result_of used in msvc
ofc, that was microsoft specific
@FilipRoséen-refp Did you even read it? I'm solely saying that you're probably misinterpreting the second sentence concerning that construct. You have two instantiations of f<> which make noexcept(flag(0)) behave differently, which that second sentence forbids.
I glanced at the article but of course I didn't get anything :( well I did get something, the examples
the idea of a compile-time counter seems cool
the company I work has a pretty flexible schedule
@Nisk That's how it is supposed to be. It is not a grocery store
TIL I work in a grocery store
@khajvah "You must be a lazy ass unemployed person" WELL GUESS WHAT.
yes i am ;)
@Cinch No you must do your work. It doesn't matter when you are doing it.
@FilipRoséen-refp Also, Richard Smith presumably said it doesn't violate anything since the resolution of that DR isn't yet incorporated in any standard.
09:35
@Mr.kbok ugh what
imposing stupid schedules only harms productivity
@khajvah i don't even
i was being flippant/joking
you were flipping pancakes
@khajvah stuff needs to get done. As long as it gets done. No one cares what hours I work.
it's the one big benefit of working at this company.
@Mr.kbok thanks man!
@Columbo no, it doesn't violate anything even if it was incorporated in the standard
09:41
@FilipRoséen-refp So what exactly is incorrect with my argumentation?
@Griwes You can detect if a template has been instanciated with it, thus create a global counter or type map
@Columbo you should read up on what "meaning" really is, as well as what qualifies as a default-argument
@Columbo that you claim that the DR would make it ill-formed, that is not the case. I think you are misunderstanding the same thing that david was
@FilipRoséen-refp No, what particular assumption have I made, or which particular conclusion, that makes the argument wrong?
Just saying it's incorrect isn't helping me :)
@Columbo read up on what the standard means when it talks about "meaning"
@FilipRoséen-refp ... you mean, interpretation?
09:43
@FilipRoséen-refp You mention instrospection at the end of the article. What did you mean?
@Columbo the interpretation of a construct is not the value of said construct, that's the thing you seem to completely disregard. the interpretation of "1+1" is "1+1", when evaluating the expression it is "2" - but that's beyond the point of that section
@FilipRoséen-refp You mean, syntactical interpretation?
@Columbo what do you think I mean? you know you get on my nerves sometimes, right? I both love and hate that haha
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, were is that stated though? C'mon, just some evidence, man!
@Columbo just to throw you off a little bit, template<int N = 0, bool B = noexcept (func(N)), int = sizeof(...)> ... - now make the same argument
09:46
@Mr.kbok terrible and non standard.
@Columbo so, what argument are you going to make now?
@Mr.kbok This is neat.
Ven
Ven
@FilipRoséen-refp I have a question -- is the extract "Tag" argument on dependent_writer only to delay the template instantiation?
@FilipRoséen-refp What is ...? Instantiating something that suddenly makes func(N) defined and thus noexcept(flag(N)) true, instead of false?
@FilipRoséen-refp So does the second part shows the type list manipulation? :P
Ven
Ven
09:47
I guess I should re-read the templated func instantiation part
@Griwes yes
@Columbo it's the thing from the post, but I accidentaly wrote func instead of flag
@Columbo you better be acting ignorant on purpose ;)
ugh why does installing some clang tools installs libjs-jquery and libjs-underscore
ugh why is everything broken
@Columbo take the 0 in the solution in the blog post, and make it a non-type template-parameter (with a default value of 0), then read the standard about what actually happens when the implementation is working with template arguments
@FilipRoséen-refp I don't need to, if interpretation is actually just syntactical, then my point is indeed wrong.
I thought it was semantical.
> I know of no language rule that this technique violates, but it does slip past one rule on a technicality (that a template specialization that has multiple points of instantiation behaves the same at all of them) -- because the default template arguments aren't part of the instantiated specialization itself.
that quote from Richard Smith sums it up, and is why it is well-formed
it is a technicality - but the standard says what the standard says
09:51
@FilipRoséen-refp Yeah, unfortunately that guy also proposes how to adjust the wording to make your construct ill-formed.
@Griwes Everything you'll write with msvc will be non-standard at some point, so you might as well use the few things that works in your advantage
@Columbo that's not what he says, but whatever floats your boat - it is not ill-formed, and even if it will be in future revisions it doesn't matter
@Columbo the important part of the message you are referring to is the "if"
@FilipRoséen-refp ... it does matter a lot, because compilers are not gonna implement such a DR for C++1Z only
It's gonna jump back and make them not compile it for C++11 either.
what are you guys discussing?
refp's article about constexpr
user1804599
09:54
Can you do luaL_openlibs except for the io library?
@Columbo that's all theoretical, it matters - but only when that discussion has actually taken place (and come to that verdict). There is a standardization meeting quite soon, and I reckon this will be discussed there
@FilipRoséen-refp Don't get me wrong, please. I don't want it to be ill-formed, it's a neat trick. I simply want to find out if this is really a practical solution or just something that verges on the edge of being ill-formed and/or crushed by a DR.
@Columbo people made the same claims with SFINAE, and templates being turing-complete. One aspect of the matter is that compilers have already implemented support for this, and a DR might just make them go "well, it's there - who cares"
@FilipRoséen-refp .. what? That's ludicrous. Compilers will see that DR and opt to implement it.
If it will exist!
Which is not guaranteed, but I bet it will.
@Columbo I'm talking about the implementations that are obviously already in place
09:57
inb4 turing-completeness of templates gets its own DR and gets remov-- "fixed".
@Columbo not every DR is implemented by a compiler, especially not if it is NDR
@FilipRoséen-refp So you're planning to popularize a feature that is presumably gonna be made ill-formed NDR by the committee, intentionally? Good luck.
@Columbo you must be trollin'
I'm out, peace!
@FilipRoséen-refp I'm not trolling, but I get the impression that you're desperately trying to defend the idea against all points mentioned by Kraus, from which AFAICS many are good and probably correct. You can't just deny any criticism as trolling, ignorance and what not.
Ven
Ven
10:03
@LightningRacisinObrit this is so perfect it hurts
@Columbo I'm not "desperately" trying to defend anything, and are you honestly saying that the reasoning provided by both me and richard smith isn't valid? What I consider to be trolling are you writing.. well what you have written above. I have no idea why you are saying that I'm doing things which I'm not
@Columbo I'm not planning to "popularize" any feature, I'm merely writing about it
@rightfold There is a way I believe but I don't quite remember.
@rightfold like sandbox it you mean?
user1804599
10:18
wooooooohoooooooo it works :D :D :D
> Like AWK, but in parallel!
lel
ugh and in Go
Fucking
user1804599
Go is awesome.
Go is terrible.
10:25
Ugh
I'm continuing to revise the concept for Atomic Coding to be Socratic learning
user1804599
:(
@FilipRoséen-refp I'm not saying anything about you or Richard Smiths reasoning. I'm on about Kraus' reasoning.
And, as far as I can see, Kraus does not say that your idea is incorrect per se. He just raises concerns about its usage, e.g. in function templates. You yourself are saying that one has to be very careful when using this.
@Columbo that's what you are saying now, previously you were talking about the "interpretation".
@FilipRoséen-refp No, that was about my post.
Xeo
Xeo
Wtf. How do you indicate an optional return type in UE4 on a function that is exposed to blueprints? Pointer return types are not allowed, it seems.
10:37
@rightfold That's kinda awful setting the value in _G as a side effect. aggregate should really return the function.
I mistakenly argued that the interpretation changes, while it doesn't, if that interpretation is solely syntactical.
@Columbo alright, as long as you are happy; I am happy.
user1804599
@Puppy there's problem with that.
user1804599
For each record I create a new Lua state.
@FilipRoséen-refp I appreciate all this anyway, since it's a great opportunity to learn stuff :)
user1804599
10:38
So I need to know which aggregate has which name.
> the Event bus is simply the totality of all channels. - the quality shite I am reading :\
er, that's ... odd.
user1804599
Records are processed in parallel and Lua states are still as thread-safe as strtok.
user1804599
aggregate also does something different depending on the stage it's in.
user1804599
When the program is loaded, it starts an aggregation thread.
user1804599
10:40
During process it sets a function that adds to the aggregate.
wait, why does that entail needing to know the name of the function?
user1804599
During summarize it sets a function that returns the final value.
user1804599
@Puppy During setup phase, Lua state A remembers the aggregation functions and the current aggregate value. During processing, Lua state B needs tell Lua state A which aggregate to add to.
user1804599
And since you can't share values between Lua states, I do this with queues outside of Lua.
user1804599
_add and _get are called on demand (demand by another thread) here: github.com/rightfold/rehash/blob/master/rehash/main.go#L81-L94
Xeo
Xeo
UE4 fun stuff: Have member called saveInfo, get UE complaining about redeclared member. Rename member but forget to update usage site, get UE complaining about non-existent member saveInfo.
Fucking header tool.
user1804599
Overall execution is like this:
user1804599
A = new lua state
aggregate(A)
B = new lua state
gather(B)
parallel for record in records:
    C = new lua state
    process(C)
D = new lua state
summarize(D)
user1804599
10:48
Isolation of Lua states between records is essential and enables parallelism and distribution.
I wonder if std::regex along with the new string convertion functions can be a good replacement for the scanf variants when it comes to formatted file input.
Xeo
Xeo
Don't do regex if you don't have to
user1804599
formatted input s/f/scanfs tend to be very regex-like
for the simple stuff
Xeo
Xeo
10:50
Except not.
user1804599
If you need regular expressions use PCRE or Perl.
user1804599
Everything else is substandard.
@Xeo s/.*/Regex is the best/
I don't need the full power of regular expressions just a possible alternative to the scanf family since they tend to be noisy.
if regexes are not a good alternative then fine.
Top tip for colleague: when a MySQL column has a prominent comment stating "... (or NULL if not yet)", don't change the column to NOT NULL then scratch your head for hours wondering why everything broke. #derp

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