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user142019
10:00 PM
At school I use Notepad++ + Command prompt. xD
 
@DeadMG: those are easily parallelized & distributed. try that without paying extra bucks for Incredibuild and configuring for ages.
 
@sehe At my last job my boss only touched my keyboard twice.
 
wtf? I don't care about parallelizing Make
 
Xeo
Hm. Should access to resource management facilities be global or would it be better to pass a resource loader to every class that need it? I'm kinda wondering... it's the same kind of question as a logger. :|
 
I care about the fact that it's fucking annoying
 
10:00 PM
After that he realized he couldn't even type a couple lines on my VS setup.
 
@Xeo What on earth is a resource loader?
 
@Xeo Singleton!
 
user142019
@DeadMG a thing that loads a resource.
 
you mean like, a free function?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes My current facility is a bit like that :P resource_ptr<Surface> res = resources::load<Surface>("blah.png");
 
10:01 PM
@Ell Not better. Just more convenient. Remember linux is written BY programmers, so naturally they are their own primary target audience
 
Too complicated.
@Xeo That sounds like a namespace with free functions.
 
Xeo
Yep
 
@sehe So every tool is designed to require hours of a programmer's time to build it's basic functionalit
 
Ell
@sehe why not better if more convenient?
 
@Ell Because normative statements suck :)
 
10:02 PM
sounds like you just got a slow machine
 
Add Reference... anyone?
 
Ell
@sehe I dont know what a normative statement is :P
 
Add Reference is fucking slow regardless of how fast your machine is.
It's just slow.
 
@DeadMG: At work, maybe. I disable the virusscan policies of course :)
 
user142019
@Ell a normative statement is a statement that is normative.
 
10:03 PM
So fucking slow there's a host of VS addins just to replace it with something sane.
That thing takes hours to load.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes And I'm unsure if I should continue with that. I'm currently running into problem after problem w.r.t. customization of allocation for example.
 
At home, my system flies. 8Gb gives me plenty of tmpfs to work with. I just won't let Windows take all the juice out of it and make it half as_s_ slow
 
Ell
@WTP I gathered, but what does normative mean? o.O
 
It's so slow I used to just edit the project file directly to add references.
It's fucking slow.
Did I mention "Add Reference" takes two lifetimes to open?
</rant>
 
user142019
normative |ˈnôrmətiv|
adjective formal
establishing, relating to, or deriving from a standard or norm, esp. of behavior: negative sanctions to enforce normative behavior.
 
Ell
10:05 PM
o.o
 
well
it's true, VS is a fucking slow piece of shit
but that's mostly VS's fault and nothing else
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: I don't _tend to_: it's a default. In vim:
`:args **/*.csproj`
`:argdo %s/\V3.0.1.1/3.0.1.2/g`
`:wall`

done
 
user142019
VS 2003 wasn't slow
 
@DeadMG: true, windows is ok. With cygwin for productive commandline tools, I'm ok
@WTP what? You just weren't awake yet
 
@DeadMG It varies from version to version.
 
10:06 PM
@WTP Add Reference in VS2003 was slow-ish already.
 
Ell
ughhhh just work wxWidgets!!! WHere is setup.h? I dont know! You were supposed to make one for me when I build you! grrrr
 
But it all went downhill from VS8 onwards.
 
VS2003 was slow, VS2005 was okay, VS2008 was fucking slow, VS2010 is okay, VS2011 is probably going to be slower than a bunch of drunk snails.
 
@WTP Nobody did
 
well, here's the thing
 
10:07 PM
4 mins ago, by sehe
@Ell Because normative statements suck :)
 
(Damn, I see a pattern here)
 
ultimately, I get the feeling that Microsoft don't know how to fucking program
 
The biggest pain with VS being slow is that it hurts hosted awesome stuffs like R#.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Windows 95 was a piece of crap, 98 was OK, Me sucked, 2000 was OK, XP was OK, Vista sucked, 7 is awesome. Microsoft makes a mistake somewhere.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I disagree that VS2010 is okay. It is slightly less pathetic.
 
10:08 PM
Microsoft Bob sucked. End of story. There's no pattern here.
 
@sehe Yeah, my standards are not very strict.
 
user142019
lol
 
user142019
Never used it.
 
user142019
I needed Windows 95 a few weeks ago.
 
@WTP Nobody did. That's the point.
 
10:08 PM
@WTP Time travelling emergency?
 
@WTP That was a mistake. What for? Use wine or dosbox. Done deal
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes The Neverhood doesn't run on newer systems.
 
@sehe What if you're stuck in 1996? There's no wine or dosbox.
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes In 1996 there was no need for them because The Neverhood just ran.
 
0
Q: The Most Suitable Language To Build a Search Engine

Islam HassanI'm begging a startup soon. It's a search engine that searches for some stuff over social networks and do some statistics on it. I need some advice from you guys for picking the most suitable environment for my startup. 1- Is the language considered the bottleneck in such case, or I can pick any...

Is this common? A startup where the people don't even know what they will be doing?
 
user142019
10:12 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Visual Basic
 
@DeadMG You haven't used linux in 10 years, it shows. It doesn't get easier than on linux. Configuring boost on windows is a pain. Linux: 10 seconds including the download. Same for everything else. Period. I can have a fully configured development workstation installed in <15minutes. From scratch, i.e. blank harddrive. (Starting from a install CD)
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes Is this common? Sure, way too common.
 
@sehe You download boost in 10 seconds?
I envy you.
 
@sehe Actually, I've never used Linux beyond having to use some of their tools here on Windows
the whole lot of it fucking sucked donkey dick
why do they even need configure and make?
 
user142019
@sehe me too, I can install Damn Small Linux within 20 seconds.
 
10:14 PM
@DeadMG They don't. Use packages, like you (have to) do on windows
 
@sehe Oh, wait, you mean binary packages, right?
 
then why is it that I download Bison and it comes with a fucking makefile?
 
@DeadMG And that's why us linux ravers are winning this war: we DO extensively use Windows (professionally). We can compare stuff.
 
user142019
2 close votes and counting.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Doesn't matter, libboost-all-dev.
 
10:15 PM
nobody ever wins a raving war
that's practically the point
 
@WTP No idea what you're talking about.
 
@DeadMG You only say that because you're losing one :)
 
user142019
sudo port install boost. Everything installed.
 
riiight
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes What's he begging the startup for?
 
10:15 PM
@sehe I meant, there's no building boost involved, right?
 
:P
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes the question mentioned above.
 
Ah, right.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes nope. That'd be slightly longer
 
10:16 PM
I'm never going to change to Linux because I play games on Windows
and that's pretty much the end of it
 
Ell
yeah games on linux sucks
 
also, I have a massive distrust of all Linux tools and utilities after my experience with Bison for Windows
 
user142019
Minecraft runs fine so Linux is good enough for me. It's just, there is no GUI for Linux I can get used to.
 
Ell
yeah i suppose
minecraft is one good game for linux
 
All the games are keep playing over and over run fine on Linux.
 
Ell
10:17 PM
and hedgewars of course :D
@WTP why dont you try a windows theme or somethin?
 
user142019
Worms > Hedgewars
 
@WTP Same here, that's what the command-line is for :P
 
user142019
@Ell I'm used to Mac OS X. :p
 
@DeadMG So, you're using an archaic tool on a platform on which it is poorly supported and draw conclusions about another platform. Mmm. Granted, you could have picked yacc :) That'd be worse
 
Ell
@WTP try a mac os x theme then :P
 
user142019
10:18 PM
What's a good debian system to do development on that's not called ubuntu?
 
oh, I tried yacc and lex too, I think
 
@WTP There must be clone of that somewhere.
 
Ell
and why is Worms > Hedgewars? Worms doesnt have portal guns!
 
configure and make are Unix tools
 
Debian? Or linux Mint
 
Ell
10:18 PM
@WTP linux mint
 
the fact that they dicked me about endlessly is not going to be Windows specific
 
Ell
@sehe linux mint > debian
 
@WTP No idea. I'm allergic to Canonical.
 
user142019
@Ell Will try that.
 
Linux Mint has an ubuntu-based distro and a Debian-based distro.
 
10:18 PM
nor is the fact that, for example, GCC will take input source files on the command line
no matter how much I fucking hate Visual Studio, it will never be that bad
 
Ell
@sehe oh yeah forgot about tha... :P
 
Both seem to be fine over my period of testing (last month).
I upgraded my servers to Debian straight, though
 
Linux Mint has a Debian-based distro and a Debian-based distro.
There, FTFY
 
@DeadMG Er, cl takes input source files on the command line.
 
the difference is that Visual Studio exists to get rid of the problem
 
10:20 PM
@DeadMG If you so badly want an IDE, use one? Netbeans, Code::Blocks, Geany, Eclipse, pick your poison.
 
what, so I'd have to run Java? no thanks!
 
user142019
What about Kubuntu?
 
@DeadMG As well as a host of IDEs that use GCC as a backend also exist.
 
Kdevelop, vim, emacs, etc. no Java required
 
user142019
Because I like KDE.
 
10:21 PM
I have a 30-ish line makefile template, and I'm never spelling out any source/object files. And it is easy to add/tweak build configs. A far cry from the hell that is Build Config dialogs in VStudio
 
Ell
@WTP never tried kubuntu. Xubuntu is nice though
 
user142019
Downloading Kubuntu :)
 
Ell
Eclipse is a very good IDE but I've learnt to appreciate gedit :P
and how much better than notepad it is :D
 
user142019
Notepad is evil.
 
10:22 PM
You're seriously comparing Notepad with something?
 
@Ell I'm having Xubuntu right now. It's okay. I guess. The fact that they promote abiword over LibreOffice is a bit to purist for me. But I'll give it a chance
 
Notepad can't even handle \n
 
@Ell Compare it to Notepad++. Gedit is really crappy in comparison.
 
Real men use nano.
 
Ell
@sehe I have it on an old machine and I quite like it - not for development or anything - just everyday browsing etc
real men use emacs/vim/vi/etc.
 
user142019
10:23 PM
Real men use emacs. Not vim.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Forget that. Commands shown on a menu at the bottom? Real men use vim.
 
Ell
no - real men write their own using emacs/vim/vi then use that
wait - real men write a hardware implementation and use that
 
Nah, seriously, I use VS and Xcode.
I fully embrace my suckiness.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes HAHAHAHA. Sarcasm alert
 
10:23 PM
@sehe I mean it. vi (not vim) sucks.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Truth.
 
user142019
Xcode is quite nice.
 
All you have to do is use vim for a while and then go back to vi.
 
@BenVoigt Ah that way. True indeed
 
You'll see immediately what I mean.
 
Ell
10:24 PM
@sehe I think notepad++ has many features people dont use
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Please make the bad man stop.
 
@WTP I can't wait for them to fully integrate various parts of LLVM and clang. Having to debug with gdb sucks balls.
 
user142019
user image
3
 
lol emacs
 
lol
 
10:25 PM
@Ell That goes for all powerful editors/IDES I've seen.
 
user142019
Because it's true.
 
Ell
@sehe everything apart from gedit :D
;)
@WTP lolololololol
 
I never understood this gedit thing. It's just a fancy notepad.
 
user406009
It has plugins.
 
user406009
Lots of plugins
 
user142019
10:26 PM
wow
 
user142019
emacs has more plugins
 
@Ell @Ell: apparently you haven't touched all the plugins to Gedit yet. But that is also precisely where I dtopped liking Gedit: the plugins don't rock. The integration lacks. Kate is better, albeit KDE specific.
 
Kate has a vim mode.
Sucks balls.
 
Ell
@sehe well tbh I use code::blocks because my machine cant handle eclipse :P But i often revert to gedit when it annoys me
 
I think we should write our own text editor. Then whine about it because that's what we do.
 
10:27 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Mwa.. It's actually enough to make me like frescobaldi for lilypond authoring.
 
Ell
@sehe I use it just for the simple "build" and "run" buttons
@EtiennedeMartel I agree
 
@Ell Replied to the wrong message?
 
@sehe Yes, it's better than nothing, but I quickly find myself hopelessly trying commands that won't work. Also I have no idea what's this frescobaldi thing.
 
user142019
@Ell me too, call it "text editor".
 
@Ell Who needs buttons? :make test and @: are swifter. No mousing required. Mousing slows you down.
 
Ell
10:29 PM
@sehe sorry i've lost track - just disreguard what I said :P
 
@sehe +1
 
user142019
@sehe cmd+return is shorter
 
@WTP It's just a mapping away.
 
It should be like C++: a large bloated mess that's overkill for most applications but that also happens to be the least bad thing in its actual market.
 
Ctrl+Alt+B isn't bad either
 
user142019
10:30 PM
what about F5?
 
:nnoremap <your-favourite-key-chord> :make
 
@WTP I usually map it to F10
 
@WTP: I want to build without running, often, or run without debugging.
 
Oh boy. This is getting petty. All the IDEs/editors under scrutiny (except sed/pico?) support mapping separate keys to (re)build and run
I'ts a non-issue
 
user406009
I usually have a second terminal open for building/running.
 
user142019
10:31 PM
I was wondering, does rms use Google? It's not free software.
 
@WTP: It's not software. It's a service. It uses software.
 
Ell
ugggggghh wxWidgets made me a setup.h file for msvc when I'm clearly using g++ on linux... facepalm
 
user142019
@sehe it uses proprietary software.
 
user142019
@Ell wxWidgets is evil.
 
@Ell you clearly told it otherwise (by copying from a msvc config, most likely).
 
Ell
10:33 PM
@sehe I didn't copy anything :P
 
There should be a UI lib in Boost.
(I'm not serious)
 
@WTP Everything does. RMS does take the tram, underground. Heck, he uses the power grid. Etc. etc.
 
user142019
@sehe good point.
 
RMS does everything a common person does. Except shaving.
 
@Ell so... you typed in wxWidgets from scratch using your own keyboard? You must be (a) old (b) tired ((c) mad)
@RMartinhoFernandes My wife is getting worried at my LOL-ling behind the PC.
 
user142019
10:35 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
 
Ell
@sehe okay so i downloaded the thing, typed ./config then make. All went well apart from it generated me a msvc setup.h file instead of a gtk one o.O
 
Gimme the download link. I'll repro it.
@Ell waits:.... wget -c ......
 
Ell
@sehe kk gimme a sec
oops
did I mention i was using the development release?
 
@sehe I don't know if you remember a question a while back about a paranoid company that wanted the employees to type in the source code of the Linux kernel and compile with VS and bootstrap from there, for "security reasons"?
 
which specific tarball?
@RMartinhoFernandes Linky?
They never learned about merkel trees re. git repositories, then :)
PGP trust delegation etc.
 
10:38 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes The shit is this?
 
Ell
@sehe nevermind
 
1
Q: Building a Linux Kernel with Visual Studio 2010

Eric SeiglerDoes anyone have step-by-step instructions on how to build a Linux kernel using Visual Studio 2010? I've tried to search for the solution to this question directly, but no joy. A few things I have been able to find out: The Linux kernel is built using the GNU C compiler, so a prerequisite woul...

 
Ell
errrmmm I found the right one now
silly me
sorry for causing agrovation
oops :P
 
Oops, sorry for plugging my answer.
 
@Ell Let me guess, you picked the .zip download :)
 
10:40 PM
man
making a whole language is so much work
 
No kidding.
 
Ell
@nope I was just stupid :P setup.h is in lib not include. Silly me, why did I expect it to be in a logical location?
 
@DeadMG Blimey. Who'd-ve thunk
 
now star me
:P
 
The Vector #lessambitiousmovies
 
10:41 PM
I'm still not terrifically happy with my grammar
it's so fragile
 
there's just so much of it
 
@DeadMG It needs to be hardened by use!
 
lol
 
IOW expect changes once you start working on top of it.
 
10:42 PM
it has too many keywords, too many syntactic constructs
I need to make it more generic
 
no
 
Lol:
0
Q: To those of you who do a majority of you developement work in vim; What does your workflow look like?

user1030470As a high school student who does most of his coding in the Netbeans IDE (As a class requirement), but also proficient at vim usage (As A Linux user I decided to invest my time in learning it; I actually wrote this post in GVim with the "It's all text" addon). I wish to do more in Vim. I work m...

 
ok
 
sbi
Ok, so the last time I wrote C++ for a living, std::auto_ptr was all the std lib had available, and boost::shared_ptr was all the rage. Now, does someone have a simple algorithm to determine when to use which smart pointer? Something like this.
 
10:44 PM
maybe I need less syntactic constructs and just more functions
@sbi auto_ptr if you don't need reference counting- it's the C++03 baby unique_ptr
shared_ptr for reference counting
 
user142019
@sbi note that std::auto_ptr is deprecated in C++11.
 
@sbi: Yes: search on stackoverflow.com some very solid answers are present
 
just be aware of all the auto_ptr pitfalls
 
sbi
@DeadMG And why would I use auto_ptr when I have unique_ptr?
 
user406009
unique_ptr is better than auto_ptr in every way.
 
10:45 PM
you wouldn't
 
@DeadMG Several FP afacionados will be egging you on down that path
 
unique_ptr is a direct and superior replacement in every way
@sehe I actually meant to say "keywords" :P
 
@sbi To annoy the hello out of your coworkers, of course.
 
Ell
ugh its getting late
 
10:46 PM
@DeadMG Oh, they're mostly the same thing. It's just words :)
 
Ell
at least wxwidgets works!
 
sbi
@sehe My cow-workers are hapy about writing C# and the occasional C. :(
 
Use unique_ptr except:
    1. In C++03, use auto_ptr instead and be aware of all it's pitfalls
    2. Need reference-counting, use shared_ptr
 
Ell
finally
 
@Ell It always does.
 
10:46 PM
that's pretty much it
 
Ell
@sehe yeah :/
anyway I'm off to bed, goodnight folks
 
sbi
@sehe Actually I was after something more solid, you know.
 
@sbi So they have you enslaved to do the grunt work? I bet you'll be sweating C++/CLR pretty soon now
 
sbi
@DeadMG Is that it? What if I, uh... Well, what if I need a smart pointer in a non-copyable class? unique_ptr, as your algorithm suggests?
 
user406009
Factory function: Use unique_ptr
Using objects across lambda: Use shared_ptr
Sharing objects: Use shared_ptr
Pimpl: Use unique_ptr
Storing pointers in stl containers: Use unique_ptr
 
10:48 PM
unique_ptr is move-only so non-copyability is fine
 
@sbi unique_ptr makes it automatically non-copyable, so it's perfect.
 
sbi
@sehe "...the last time I wrote C++ for a living..." I now write C# for a living. :(
 
@sbi This looks pretty solid to me
36
Q: smart pointers (boost) explained

SashaWhat is the difference between the following set of pointer? When do you use each pointer in a production code, if at all? Examples would be appreciated! 1.scoped_ptr 2.shared_ptr 3.weak_ptr 4.intrusive_ptr Edit#1 Do you guys use boost in production code?

 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, that sounds good!
 
and shared_ptr is fine in non-copyable too, it has move semantics if you need them, just offers copy semantics too if you want them
 
user406009
10:49 PM
@sehe That post is a little outdated scoped_ptr is different from unique_ptr.
 
But you need to make it non-copyable yourself.
 
user406009
unique_ptr is much more versitile.
 
sbi
@sehe That's almost three years old! And it's got boost all over! Ideally, I'd use what the std lib provides.
 
(A little application of = delete; and it's done)
 
yes, if you're working in MSVC and you don't explicitly implement the move semantics yourself, you can get nasty errors
 
10:50 PM
@sbi So, use auto_ptr? You should be worrying about SuppresFinalizer, [MTAThread] and WeakReference stuff; About boxing of structs (valuetypes) in lambda captures and the nice replacement problems that CLR/C# invented for you!
 
they don't implement implicit move constructors/assignment operators
 
0
A: Need to know when no data appears between two tokens (Strtok )

refp7.21.5.8 the strtok function The standard says the following regarding strtok: [#3] The first call in the sequence searches the string pointed to by s1 for the first character that is not contained in the current separator string pointed to by s2. If no such characte...

 
sbi
@EthanSteinberg See, I was afraid of falling victim to such answers.
 
did I overdo it again?
 
@sbi True. But it's mostly 1:1 applicable to C++11
 
10:51 PM
Johannes also mentions unique_ptr in the end.
 
@refp yup. It was a dupe :)
 
sbi
@sehe Again: I do not write any C++ code for a living, currently. And except for 20-liners, I haven't written C++ code for fun either in about two years.
 
@sbi You can ignore scoped_ptr, really
 
@sehe you seriouz!?
 
it offers little to nothing over unique_ptr
 
sbi
10:52 PM
@DeadMG Ok.
 
really, you can get by with just unique_ptr and shared_ptr (and a little weak_ptr for reference cycles)
 
@sbi Huh. Reread my mesage. I was naming C# pitfalls and delicacies to replace the C++ ones?
 
sbi
Which header do I find std::unique_ptr in?
 
most of the rest like intrusive_ptr are really only very special case pointers, not general-purpose
 
user406009
<memory>
 
10:52 PM
<memory>
 
@EthanSteinberg <memory>
 
same as shared_ptr
 
@sehe I even quoted the standard for crying out load.. I spend too much time writing answers to stupid questions
hmm.. I wanna join the memory club as well, here we go!
 
@refp It'll pass :)
 
sbi
10:53 PM
@sehe Basically, I stopped after "So, use auto_ptr?"
 
<memory>
 
@sbi That sucks.
 
@sehe what will?
 
sbi
Ok, thanks folks!
 
@refp The writing of redundant answers to not-so-important questions.
 
10:54 PM
where are all the important questions? I have yet to find a single one
 
sbi
BTW, maybe some of you would like to earn the rep gained by writing an FAQ entry about when to use what pointer?
 
@refp Don't stop though! These 'enthusiast'/'zealous' answers actually are part of the awesomeness of StackOverflow. I've written (wayyyy more than) my fair share of those and I've learned an enormous amount myself, by doing so.
@refp They are scarce.
 
@sbi I believe someone asked something like that before. Gimme a minute.
 
@sehe I haven't learned nothing from writing overly long posts.. all I get is a bit of rep if I'm lucky
but most often time goes by and people up-vote shorter answers anyhow
 
@sbi Ask the FAQ question and I will post a FAQ answer
 
10:56 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes me too, but I haven't found it within 35seconds of searching, which was my threshold
 
btw, the C standard draft can be found as .txt, supereasy to search and copy/paste
I need a .txt of N1905 and.. well, whatever the c++11 draft is called. anyone with any ideas?
 
user406009
I have a pdf of the C++ draft.
 
user406009
But it takes forever to run a search.
 
user406009
1334 pages, those language lawyers were at it again.
 
@refp No, you're wrong. You're learning about how to write good answers swiftly. You're learning you're way around POSIX specs, the standard. You're learning about how to write your answer for the target audience. You're learning about important questions/less important questions. You're learning about strtok_r :)
 
sbi
10:58 PM
0
Q: Which kind of pointer do I use when?

sbiOk, so the last time I wrote C++ for a living, std::auto_ptr was all the std lib had available, and boost::shared_ptr was all the rage. I understand that it is different now that C++11 is here. So does someone have a simple algorithm to determine when to use which smart pointer? Preferably incl...

 
@EthanSteinberg n3242.pdf. Just run it through pdf2ps/pstotext or what-have-you.
 
@sbi Hmm, can't find it. There's a bunch of "shared vs unique in situation X" questions, but not one that encompasses all.
 
@sehe nhaa, I already knew about strtok_r :-(
 
Damn, shift.
 

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