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6:00 AM
what's best way to perform addition and stuff?
 
It's in <ratio>.
@Pubby If you use the std one, it already does that. Otherwise you can just multiply each ratio's numerator and denominator by the other's denominator.
Throwing some lcm in it can help too.
 
reducing at some point is probably nice
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks. Any idea of how it performs compared to a fixed point representation?
 
At compile time? No idea.
 
What's the best way to benchmark tmp? :S
 
6:03 AM
lol
 
Xeo
@Pubby How many coffee you can sip while the code compiles.
 
I wonder if you're not going too far when you reach the point where you need a TMP profiler.
Though I guess WideC will need a compile-time profiler.
 
Well it's for that tmp compiler I was talking about - I need it to be as fast as possible
 
I want a debugger before a profiler!
 
finally i don't think da::transaction(db).exec("INSERT ... VALUES (?)") << "x"; can work because it means i'd need to do the committing in the destructor.
 
6:05 AM
@LucDanton A TMP debugger? That would be so awesome.
Btw, what do you guys use to print types when doing TMP?
 
I don't usually print types.
 
@Xeo "How much". Coffee (the liquid) is not countable.
@LucDanton How do you debug then?
 
static_assert sometimes works
 
Lacking a debugger, I fall back to good ole printfs.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes "mug of coffee"
 
6:07 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Believe or not, I read GCC's errors.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes i don't think it's at all possible right now. you have to learn to compile in your head. c++, no less. madness? no, this is sparta!
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Are you a wizard? I'd rather compile that thing in Clang and read those errors
 
@Xeo I would like to try Clang but it can't deal with my code.
 
@LucDanton I can believe that. I've noticed progress on my reading ability too :)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Lambdas? :/
 
6:09 AM
@wilhelmtell Well, I usually do stuff like struct {} x = something; and the compiler complains that something is not convertible to some anonymous type.
 
I tend to use 'pseudo-'breakpoints (a combination of static_assert, intended SFINAE failures, and plain expected errors) far more than I'd print types.
 
And in doing that, it prints the type of something.
 
@Xeo I tend to be bleeding edge to the point that upgrading my GCC snapshot will break some thing or the other. So really I've tied my code to GCC.
 
sorry for the double post, but do you think this is possible? da::transaction(db).exec("INSERT ... VALUES (?)") << "x"; I mean, because I'd need to commit the transaction only in the dtor for I can see...
 
@LucDanton But lambdas are enough to make clang unusable.
 
6:10 AM
Forcing an error in a template (++t) is the usual way to get a 'backtrace' of sorts.
@RMartinhoFernandes I've recently looked at the list of supported features and it simply won't do.
 
@wilhelmtell That sounds similar to what some people do for logs.
So, yes, it's possible.
 
@wilhelmtell Yes, it's possible, and yes, it happens in a destructor.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes but for streams it's ok to commit as you go. in here i need all the bindings before comitting, so i think it can only be done at dtor..
@LucDanton but the commit can fail.
 
@wilhelmtell In a log you also do it in a dtor, because you want it threadsafe.
 
6:12 AM
Writing as you go will give you mixed logs and that's just horrid.
 
what if it fails?
 
Throwing is the accepted practice.
 
from the dtor?
 
Xeo
2
A: Critical sections and the singleton pattern

XeoC++11 removes the need for locking. Concurrent execution shall wait if a static local variable is already being initialized. ยง6.7 [stmt.dcl] p4 If control enters the declaration concurrently while the variable is being initialized, the concurrent execution shall wait for completion of the in...

 
Yes.
 
Xeo
6:13 AM
It's finally done! @RMartinhoFernandes @BenVoigt
 
If logging fails, you log the failure, what else?
 
ok, you got me confused. in logging, logging can fail. at dtor. so you log that?
 
Oh, I was joking.
 
srsly though
 
> [2012.01.02 06:15:34] FATAL Thread 42 - Logging failed.
 
6:14 AM
what if the dtor fails?
 
Xeo
xDD
 
Throw or silently ignore depending on what's needed.
 
How were you going to handle it for your original code idea?
 
hmm, I might need some help with this fixed point stuff
 
You can queue everything up inside a transaction and require a call to commit.
 
Xeo
6:15 AM
@wilhelmtell Keep a critical log handle open all the time to log the log failure to? /shrug.
 
it makes no sense to me. i'd say this can't possibly work, but the idea the loggers do it gets me curious now.
 
C++16 should have overloadable operator void. It gets called when you ignore a return value. It makes this possible without using the dtor.
 
Trying to convert <char...> to a fixed point representation, but I can't use division as it's too expensive
 
@BenVoigt right now i have no binding support in my api. so the commit is at construction. for binding i thought of building the query, but it seems difficult.
 
oh here
 
6:17 AM
@BenVoigt and commit where? in the dtor?
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes But not if you do (void)blah();?
 
The connection object is still alive at that point.
store your errors in the connection, instead of throwing
 
@Xeo Hmm. Dunno.
 
Then you can have a method on the connection object to convert errors to exceptions, or simply test for them, or etc.
 
@BenVoigt like standard streams do?
 
6:18 AM
yeah, like that
 
i thought it was a bad design. but really with the buildup i see no other way. maybe the buildup is inherently flawed.
 
I guess you do have a transaction object anyway, which needs to be either committed or rolled back?
Let the commit call on the transaction throw if needed.
 
Xeo
You might also, for the logging thing, just have a "commit log" function that gets streamed into the stream
 
@BenVoigt yes, but right now i have no binding support, so i can do it all at construction. the ctor throws right now.
 
The temp object destructors just execute queries within the scope of the transaction, without committing.
 
Xeo
6:20 AM
std::stringstream() << "hi " << "there " << "dude " << commit_log("log.txt");
 
maybe i need to have the bindings ready before construction, and pass them all to the ctor. so the ctor throws.
 
or you might even combine multiple queries into a single request packet.
 
but it feels reversed, unnatural ...
 
Xeo
So, what's the topic right now?
 
da::database db("./db");
da::transaction t(db);
t.exec("INSERT INTO creatures (name) VALUES (?);")
    << "Hamster";
t.exec("UPDATE creatures SET name=? WHERE name=?;")
    << "Salmon" << "Hamster";
t.commit();
 
6:22 AM
I think it's best to have a commit() function.
It gives you the flexibility to handle errors as you want.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Or like fstream does, close + dtor
 
@Pubby are you using std::decimal for fixed point?
 
After all, after generating some queries, one of your parameters might throw an exception, then you have to rollback the whole mess.
 
@Xeo Except in this case the dtor is either a noop or a rollback.
 
Oh this is awesome... I just got upgraded to 1st class for my flight... XD
 
6:24 AM
IMO, the destructor on an open database transaction should cause rollback, not commit.
 
Xeo
@BenVoigt You might want to specify that behaviour in the constructor
 
That's the only way to have exception safety if parameter computation throws.
 
Committing should be explicit.
 
Xeo
Or through setters
 
6:25 AM
@kfmfe04 No, what's std::decimal?
 
@Xeo: No. I definitely agree with R here. Explicit commit. Stack unwind causes rollback.
 
There's a std::decimal?
 
aye - been using it w/gcc
 
Ah, then it's an extension, right?
 
Xeo
It's a proposal it seems
 
6:26 AM
i wish c++ had a finalizer function, for "closing words" but allowing to throw.
not for cleanup
 
std::decimal::decimal64 is working for me - don't know how far it is in the C++11 proposal/acceptance queue
 
Xeo
@wilhelmtell You can kinda get that with a double-raii based composition
 
@wilhelmtell I'm having a déjà vu. If you go through the transcript of last week, there's a discussion on that.
 
@Xeo i'm listening ...
 
@Pubby it's an implementation of fixed-point
 
6:28 AM
@kfmfe04 Ah. Like I suspected decimal is not fixed-point.
It's decimal floating-point, as opposed to binary floating-point.
 
i mean, commit semantics are so fundamental. it should be in the language, like raii is for cleanup semantics.
 
Xeo
void foo(){
  bool is_throw = true;
  your_object obj(is_throw); // by reference
  throw_guard guard(is_throw); // by reference
  // ...
  guard.no_throw(); // last statement
}
 
@wilhelmtell You're allowed to throw from a destructor.
 
@Luc: Only if not during stack unwind from another exception.
 
Xeo
and in the destructor of your_object, check if is_throw is still true
 
6:30 AM
@LucDanton how's that? what if a dtor throws, and while another, cleaning up, throws as well?
 
Throwing inside an exception is a std::terminate offense.
 
@wilhelmtell Yes, that's bad.
 
@Xeo: just replace no_throw() with commit()...
 
Xeo
Yeah
 
It's the same thing!
 
6:31 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes ah - didn't know if Pubby was looking for a decimal or a binary scaling factor type of fixed-point...
 
There's also std::uncaught_exception() but I wouldn't use that in production code.
 
@kfmfe04 No, no, fixed-point is another thing entirely.
 
@BenVoigt herb sutter wrote about. he concluded it's of no use whatsoever...
 
ISTR what it tests for isn't quite the same as when it's safe to throw.
 
The difference between decimal64 and double is that the former uses base 10 (and thus can represent 0.3 exactly), while the latter uses base 2, and thus can't represent 0.3 exactly (I hope I picked an example that is actually not representable in base 2 :)
 
6:34 AM
Hence I wouldn't use it in production code.
 
Xeo
@BenVoigt Well, if !uncaught_exception(), it is definitly safe to throw. If there is one, it might be safe, if you're inside another try block.
 
@Xeo That's also testable!
if(current_exception())
 
so decimal64 is useful for representing things like Money where we don't want lost pennies... ...I didn't see Pubby's earlier messages in the chat so I must've missed what he was looking for, exactly...
 
6:37 AM
A fixed-point type has a fixed number of digits after the radix point.
 
@Xeo: Maybe the wording changed in C++11, but AFAICT if you're inside a catch block, then !uncaught_exception (unless something inside the catch block threw, in which case throwing would be bad)
Oh wait, it's the inside a destructor being unwound by the uncaught exception, and that destructor has a catch block.
 
Xeo
Yeah
 
I mean try block, which is what you already said.
 
@kfmfe04 If you have a fixed point with say, 5 decimal digits after the point, you can represent 0.00001 but not 0.000001. But with a floating point format, you can represent them as long as your exponent can be big enough: 1e-5 and 1e-6.
 
I don't think that's testable via current_exception().
But, I hope people aren't building database transactions inside the destructor being unwound either.
Although someone surely will.
 
6:39 AM
maybe what i need is a proxy. (AGAIN!)
 
Just use explicit commit on the transaction, it can throw, rollback on exception, problem solved.
 
da::transaction( sql("... (?)") << "Hamster);
 
@BenVoigt current_exception returns an empty exception_ptr if no handler is running.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Right, if none is running. It's as useful for checking as uncaught_exception
 
And let the debug version of your code assert in the destructor, that either uncaught_exception() or the transaction was already explicitly committed or rolled back.
 
6:41 AM
i'm trying to avoid the commit(). doesn't feel c++y to me :)
 
Xeo
@wilhelmtell It's very C++y if you think about it
 
wilhelm, it's the right thing to do for an ACID database.
 
i'm positive there's a way without it, so the user doen't need to commit.
 
Xeo
RAII means the destructor cleans up. Rolling back? That's a clean up action. Committing a transaction? That's not cleanup.
 
@Xeo No it's not. It returns null even if an exception was thrown but not caught yet. It's even less useful for this :)
 
6:42 AM
@Xeo i know, but i have a gut feeling it's possible here without it.
 
So you're going to make the user remember to explicitly call rollback() or abandon() if anything goes wrong? That seems like a much more dangerous default.
 
Xeo
@wilhelmtell Like was said, temporary objects.
 
sometimes we have stuff like
 
The destructor should take the action you want if an exception was thrown.
 
try {
    obj o;
    o.f();  // dangerous
    o.g();  // dangerous
    o.commit()
} catch (
but it's not the same thing
 
Xeo
6:43 AM
They are safe to throw, since their destructor can't ever be invoked by stack unwinding
 
Which, IMO, has got to be rollback.
wilhelm, how is this not the same as that snippet?
da::database db("./db");
da::transaction t(db);
t.exec("INSERT INTO creatures (name) VALUES (?);")
    << "Hamster";
t.exec("UPDATE creatures SET name=? WHERE name=?;")
    << normalize(sanitize(frobify(user))) << "Hamster";
t.commit();
 
@Xeo Is that a challenge?
 
You can throw in the middle of binding parameters.
 
@BenVoigt no. if something goes wrong there'll be an exception. no user code required.
 
The only extra code you need there is to make the commit.
 
Xeo
6:45 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes No.
 
wilhelm, considering that code snippet, if sanitize throws, you need to rollback the INSERT.
 
@Xeo std::cout << foo() << bar_that_throws();
 
Xeo
auto const& x = start_transaction() << foo(); // extended lifetime n stuff
 
@BenVoigt how is what not the same ?
 
My database code using commit, vs your example of good usage of commit?
 
6:47 AM
@BenVoigt transact( sql("... (?)") << "bind"); // transact ctor can throw, sql object doesn't do anything, only give all data to transact
 
how's that support multiple statements within one transaction?
 
@Xeo My example doesn't even give it a name.
 
@BenVoigt not my worry. da::transaction()` is exactly for that, and it merely constructs with a "BEGIN TRANSACTION" and destructs with a "COMMIT". so the database underneath will handle such issues.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes I want unnamed local variables. :(
I mean, we can already have unnamed parameters..
 
_ as placeholder!
 
6:49 AM
@Xeo Yeah, that'd be cool for RAII-only stuffs.
@LucDanton Ain't that reserved and shit?
Also, that's just one name.
 
Xeo
In global space, yes.
You can't even #define _ _##__LINE__ it :(
 
Well, I guess I'll never memorize those rules.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No idea (except for global), but it's just a wish I'm making: that the name could be reused in the same scope.
 
Xeo
like lua
 
Like Haskell!
 
Xeo
6:50 AM
yeah
 
thatsthejoke.jpg
 
ok, it's getting late. i'll sleep over this. thanks for the help guys! :)
 
I went to a lecture and what? All classes till 3PM are cancelled.
 
I think your all-inside-the-constructor syntax might work. I just don't like it as much.
 
This year sucks already.
 
6:51 AM
But then you'd commit from the constructor also.
so forget the object, and just have a function for that.
 
I once wrote a C# lambda like (_, __) => 42. The double underscore made me shiver.
 
In fact, you can implement my suggested API. And then have a convenience function that starts the transaction, stuffs in whatever was passed as parameters, and then commits.
Just a thought.
Have a good night.
 
Hide nastiness away. Even though I don't think it's nasty at all.
 
Xeo
#define RAII() auto&& _##__LINE__##_RAII_HOLDER_ might just be the closest one can get for a general placeholder that extends lifetime of temporaries
 
That's fugly.
RAII() = lock(something);?
 
Xeo
6:57 AM
:/
 
RAII lock(something);?
 
Xeo
I'd also rather have _(lock(something)); or _ = lock(something);
#define RAII(...) auto&& _##__LINE_##_RAII_HOLDER_(__VA_ARGS__) .. so many underscores @_@
 
I made my offset_of hack be constexpr, but also learned that it doesn't work with multiple (and possibly not even single) inheritance. :(
This was not a good day.
 
Isn't alignment one of those things that makes perfect sense as a metafunction but none as a constexpr function/template?
 
Xeo
7:02 AM
template<class T>
constexpr align_of(){
  return std::alignment_of<T>::value;
}
 
I actually have wheels::meta::alignment_of<T>().
Even though I just use alignof.
 
Xeo
I find align_of<T>() better than alignment_of<T>::value
alignof is a keyword in C++11, right?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It is more convenient but that's all (hence those examples that delegate to a metafunction).
 
It's polymorphic like sizeof: works both on types and expressions.
 
Xeo
7:03 AM
and declytpe
Wait
Does decltype work on types?
 
@LucDanton But you said it makes no sense as a constexpr function.
 
Xeo
well, also typeid
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Your examples take no argument. I think that makes my case really.
 
Xeo
no wait
Damn
 
:2253323 A template variable?
Nice try.
 
Xeo
7:06 AM
Yes :P
 
Well, constexpr functions have less Boost.MPL potential than a metafunction. But you can always write wrappers either way. I prefer none of this ::value stuff :P
Same goes for typename ... ::type.
 
Xeo
especially for type traits
fuck typename, yeah template aliases
 
That way I never try to construct stuff into an aligned_storage object.
 
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN.
 
Xeo
7:07 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes private default constructor would solve this :P
 
Can't use a constexpr function to do the job of aligned_storage though.
 
Quick question, int + unsigned = unsigned? Or = int?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Do you mean constexpr function?
 
template <typename T>
using aligned_storage = typename std::aligned_storage<T>::type;
@LucDanton Template aliases!
 
Xeo
Moo.
 
7:09 AM
@Xeo Not really. It was actually a bunch of other compiler errors.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's more to my liking.
Speaking of constepr functions, I know I've been late to the party but I only recently upgraded my GCC snapshot, which means I've finally been toying with UDR-literals.
 
I'm so heartbroken over foo<"bar"_quux>.
 
Oh uh @Xeo, I just realized that other singleton code was even more broken that I told you...
 
I don't know where that R came from. User-defined (really!) literals?
 
7:11 AM
so I'm really glad we fixed it.
 
Xeo
@BenVoigt In what way?
 
@LucDanton That can't possibly be made to work? :(
 
Out of auto enter = EnterCriticalSection(); Class c(data); auto leave(LeaveCriticalSection()); which is likely to be the longest-running?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Why why why?
 
Enter? Constructor?
 
7:13 AM
For the first thread to get here (no contention for critical section), the constructor.
So most likely, the second thread gets here after enter is fully constructed, while c is in-progress...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Only toyed for a day(-ish) so far, but with a constexpr literal operator all you can do is walk the string.
 
I think you see where this is going?
 
Someone else leaving the section.
 
Well, even before that.
 
Plan A was to return the address of a char array instantiated from a literal<C...>.
 
7:14 AM
The second thread arrives, skips initialization of enter (it's already complete), and starts constructing c.
Which the first thread is also doing.
 
@BenVoigt Isn't c static?
Oh, wait, C++03.
Damn.
 
and yes, afterwards the wrong thread might leave the critical section.
or both might.
 
Xeo
Thinking about it, I don't know how I could overlook that
 
@LucDanton You can't build that from a char const*.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep.
 
7:16 AM
Like I said, glad it's fixed.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton I want variadic template literals for strings. :(
 
What's the reasoning for not allowing that? Torture?
 
@Xeo An alternative would be for literal types to finally serve a purpose, i.e. making them available as non-type template parameters. But that'd be a hefty proposal I think.
 
I tried to use a string literal as a non-type template parameter.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton You mean foo<"hi">?
 
7:18 AM
I really wanted it to work.
Yeah, like that.
 
Like everyone.
 
struct literal_type { constexpr literal_type() = default; }; this kind of type.
 
Xeo
ah
 
There's a whole definition of what a literal type is in C++11, except it's useless.
 
Xeo
Okay, and what exactly did you want to do with it? foo<literal_type()> ?
 
7:19 AM
That'd work, yes.
 
And there's a bunch of potential literal types that aren't for no reason.
 
Ah well, time to start work on the next standard...
 
struct literal { constexpr literal(const char* p): p(p) {} const char* p; };
template<literal L> struct foo {};
 
That would mean we can all get free copies of the current standard, for use discussing improvements, right?
 
Then foo<literal("blah")> would work.
 
7:21 AM
@BenVoigt You do know it's on GitHub, right?
 
From then it's only a matter of writing constexpr literal operator"" _blah(const char* p);
 
Size. It takes size.
 
I have n3290, is there a newer one freely available?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Aren't there two possible ways to write such an operator?
 
If you're man enough to build from the LaTeX sources, yes.
 
7:22 AM
linky please (although I won't get to it until tomorrow)
 
@LucDanton Don't tell me I've been putting unamed size_t parameters in there for nothing!
 
Xeo
yes
 
so this \LaTeX version is the work-in-progress before the next meeting?
 
Xeo
I still want template<char...> constexpr foo operator"" _blah(); :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nah, raw literal operators (taking only const char*) are not available to string literals.
 
7:25 AM
@Xeo: That'd be cool. New regexp engine?
 
0
Q: Nameless object in C++

skepticI am new in OOP with C++. I would really appreciate if anyone can simply give me some idea about the "nameless object." When it is created and what is the advantage? Thanks in advance.

The hell is this?
 
Xeo
Maybe MyFooType().foobar(); ?
 
At this point the alternative is leetspeak.
foo<1337_bar>
 
I think you got it Etienne.
*this, the object that implictly qualifies other identifiers without being named.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton With hexadecimal, we can get up to F!
 
7:27 AM
Or maybe the anonymous namespace.
 
foo<0xDEADBEEF_identifier>
 
@BenVoigt I know it has fixes to the current one. Not sure if they'll work on the repo for the new stuff.
 
Xeo
@BenVoigt compile-time compiler for brainfuck and the likes :D
Wait, we can already have that with the non-variadic one
 
@Xeo That's already feasible with constexpr.
@Xeo Get to work!
 
Xeo
xDD
@RMartinhoFernandes template brainfuck compiler
 
7:30 AM
Useful string UD-literals is the glazing we want on top of the constexpr cake.
2
 
Xeo
constexpr lie cake();
 
@Xeo But that with char....
 
Xeo
Well, look at how old that is. :P
 
'[','-',']','+','[',']' is valid bra*nfuck, but it does a lot of input.
If you could at least avoid the commas...
 
Xeo
7:34 AM
xD
 
I know what I'm going to do today. Have another go at those UD-literals.
I'm just going for fixed-size identifiers.
 
Share your findings.
 
Xeo
template<char (&Arr)[1]> struct literal1; etc?
 
I still have no idea what I could use these things for though.
 
Xeo
I just want template<auto X> struct foo;
 
7:38 AM
Precompiled regexes sounds cool, but I'm not sure it's really useful.
.NET has that, but I never saw anyone using it.
 
Xeo
I thought Boost.Xpressive already has that?
 
@Xeo But it's a weird quirky syntax.
regex<"[a-z]+"> is a lot more natural.
Btw, boo has automatic binding of named regex groups into variables.
It's nothing special, but I was the one who implemented it, so it's awesome. :P
 
Xeo
I don't know regex, so I don't know what you did there. :P
 
Say, if you write "(?<letters>[a-z]+)(?<numbers>[0-9]+)" that would match strings like "kflfjhsdjfh2347234" (bunch o' letters followed by bunch o' numbers) and capture the letters into the first group and the numbers into the second. boo match statements automatically generate local variables named letters and numbers with the result of each group's match.
 
Xeo
0
Q: Good recipe for a 'line numbers' like functionality

user1113279I have to add line numbering to my application (c++/cli - .net2.0) which is a code editor for specialized programming language. The problem is in a performance of my solution. I did it like this, for every textChanged event of my _rtbCode control this function is fired: void DocumentElement::Se...

Another guy who thinks this is a forum
 
7:48 AM
@Xeo Why?
Looks like a minimally decent question to me.
 
Xeo
Oh, I wanted to link the answer
Okay, so, I had some cool template stuff in mind that I wanted to do...
 
Xeo
I don't remember it. :(
 
Check the transcript?
 
Xeo
Nah, I just thought of something cool anyways.
But for that I want to have variadic templates... And I don't have access to my debian vbox...
Fuck.
 
7:56 AM
Install MinGW. 4.6 has working exceptions.
 
Why use a VM when you can install the real deal!
 
Xeo
64gig SSD main disk
 
That's what HDD are for.
 
Xeo
I only have an external one
 
That's horrible.
 
7:58 AM
Is your vbox in the external disk or something?
Because if you have space for a vbox, you have space for the real deal, no?
 
Xeo
I'd need to make my external HDD bootable for that to work, non?
And for that, I have to wipe it IIRC
Which is a no-go
50% filled, out of 2TB
 

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