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user3010322
8:00 PM
Yeah, just "my_string_here"s.
 
@SJD doesn't matter what the inputs were
 
Xeo
@SJD hahaha, oh my, this is perfect. /cc @wilx
2 days ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@wilx You chose to have 1-2 produce garbage so you can I-don't-even-know-what when you add two huge numbers.
 
user3010322
I think you need to do using namespace std::string_literals to get it, though.
 
it's not really garbage though
it's unsigned
what the hell did you want 1 - 2 to be? UB?
How is that any better?
 
user1804599
8:02 PM
oh boy
 
user1804599
my JIT compiler is bugged
 
SJD
weird..
 
Xeo
@Rapptz No, I wanted it to not be unsigned. (That was the point of the discussion 2 days back - needing modular (unsigned) or regular (signed) arithmetic by default)
 
user1804599
Integer underflow is UB in Mill. :P
 
then don't use unsigned?
 
user1804599
8:03 PM
You get a guaranteed exception in debug mode!
 
idgi
 
user3010322
int i = 1 - 2; //<--- that's.... -1, yes?
 
yes
 
no
 
// aligned sizeof
auto aligned_size = sizeof(std::pair<T, max_align_t>) - sizeof(max_align_t);
:D
 
8:04 PM
@Rapptz I tried to tell Robat that but it didn't go very well
 
lol
 
@ThePhD er yes
 
you could also just use sizeof(T)
 
@Scrubbins wow way to miss the point
 
which must include any alignment-related padding.
 
8:05 PM
he's not talking about padding between members bub
 
the real pity is that you can't Starbound-over-RDP.
 
It's a pity sizeof([f, max_align]{}) is not allowed. (no lambda in unevaluated context)
 
user1804599
You know, JIT is not that important now.
 
user3010322
OH.
 
@райтфолд Are you working on your programming language? (if you didnt plonk me again)
 
user3010322
8:06 PM
The discussion was the INTENTIONAL use of 1-2 to trigger underflow.
 
user3010322
Not really as to whether or not 1-2 actually makes -1.
 
user3010322
(Can't you get the same result (with errors/warnings in Clang) using -1u?)
 
alright bitches
wow the chat looks straaaange over RDP
 
@khajvah He always is
 
user1804599
This is silly.
 
user3010322
8:08 PM
I'm finally starting my journey on learning compilers.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD help me with millc.
 
user3010322
@райтфолд I don't think I'm advanced enough, or understand enough about the languages you're using to write it.
 
user3010322
I'm pretty sure I'd screw your compiler up irreversibly. :v
 
user1804599
Perl is not that hard!
 
heh
 
8:10 PM
It is
 
user1804599
Unlike say, my dick when I write Perl code.
 
everybody knows that Puppy is the Lord of Compilers
 
I thought you had a vagina.
 
user1804599
Alright, this is silly:
 
inb4 those are not mutually exclusive
 
user1804599
8:11 PM
0 PushGlobal std::io::writeln
5 PushString "Hello, world!"
10 Call 1
15 Pop
16 PushUnit
17 Return
 
user1804599
writeln returns unit.
 
user1804599
So Pop; PushUnit is redundant.
 
user1804599
And could be optimised out.
 
forget it
let LLVM handle it
 
user1804599
:P
 
user3010322
8:12 PM
I don't think he's compiling to LLVM, though.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD I am.
 
user3010322
Oh.
 
user3010322
Nevermind!
 
Wide has various cases where it does things that are not necessarily maximally efficient
but that's what mechanical optimizers are for.
and frankly, something like that is well within the range of just an opt pass.
 
8:13 PM
Wooooi
 
random redundant allocas are more annoying because they make it harder to figure out what the IR is doing; not because they're actually important.
 
Nobody dies on the island problem with blue and brown eyes!
 
user3010322
It's probably better to let the IR be optimized and regenerate the AST from the optimized IR if you want to inspect it, right?
 
no.
 
user1804599
btw puppy
 
8:14 PM
you cannot regenerate AST from IR, let alone optimized IR.
 
user1804599
I pass to a function a pointer into an array.
 
user3010322
Oh.
 
if you want to keep the AST then keep the AST.
 
user1804599
However that function doesn't care the pointer points into an array.
 
user1804599
It just wants a single scalar object.
 
user3010322
8:14 PM
Is it possible to optimize an AST?
 
user1804599
Is there a way to make LLVM aware of that?
 
not if you're remotely sane.
 
@райтфолд Pastebin a small example, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.
 
user3010322
@CaptainGiraffe Abstract Syntax Tree.
 
user3010322
Basically, the representation of a valid parsing / lexing and semantic analysis of a program.
 
optimizations shouldn't be involved until at least semantic analysis is done.
@ThePhD NO
it's merely the output of parsing, nothing else.
 
user3010322
Wha. ;~;
 
> error: anachronistic old-style base class initializer
That sounds dope.
 
there is no semantic anything in a syntax tree, clearly.
 
user1804599
8:16 PM
@Puppy something like this:
 
user1804599
%stack = alloca [i8* x 32]
%arg = i8** getelementptr %stack, i32 0, 2
call void @f(i8* load %arg)
 
user1804599
@f doesn't give a shit that the input comes from an array.
 
user1804599
Oh wait it's already a load.
 
@райтфолд i8* load %arg?
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
8:16 PM
yeah pseudocode CBA to look up the syntax
 
the load should be a separate instruction really
 
user1804599
Yes I know.
 
but yes, LLVM doesn't give a shit about such things, realistically.
the only thing that's somewhat involved is stuff like aliasing analysis.
alright so
I can technically attempt to play Baldur's Gate EE over RDP, if I'm content with (literally) 0.1FPS.
next up in "Puppy tries to play games over RDP": KSP.
ok wait that's just going to be way, way worse.
 
@Pris honestly I have no idea why he has that notify thingie, it can be created without it (and the "evaluation_scope" is also unnecessary)
 
hmmm
there is that Steam Big Picture mode.
I wonder if I can make that work remotely?
 
Xeo
8:24 PM
... why are you torturing yourself again?
 
my personal amusement.
hmm
 
Xeo
Is that like SM masturbation?
 
@Pris I mean, the whole thing is can be solved with basic use of expression templates
 
Steam In-Home Streaming
the thing is I don't want to install Steam on my mother's netbook.
 
user1804599
@Xeo omg SM
 
user1804599
8:26 PM
aweSM!
 
Jazz relaxes me
 
@Jefffrey Look up Eric Satie, the gymnossiemes
 
alright
screw it, let's give this a shot
I could save myself five hundred quid on a laptop if I can make this work :P
 
@CaptainGiraffe Non-relaxed jazz relaxes me.
Like fast going jazz.
Jesus, I should get some music culture. I'm so terrible at this "describe" thing.
 
@Jefffrey Give an example
 
8:32 PM
hmm
I would have to install Steam and VPN on my mother's machine.
 
@Jefffrey jazz? how very dare you!
 
Well Marcus Miller is always great.
 
That's my favorite of the 13 I got right now
 
8:34 PM
13?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Time to automate doc building.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Are you a jazz expert?
 
@Jefffrey I've sat in with the piano on a few sessions. Not an expert
 
@CaptainGiraffe Yes, along that rythm but with no talking.
Talking distracts me.
I guess it's called singing.
 
8:36 PM
@Jefffrey perhaps try more melodic metal maybe me muses
 
I don't like metal.
 
Sanborn and Tom Scott were great sax players during the early nineties.
 
damn you, now I have a playlist building up :\
 
at least I can work on Wide over RDP
 
8:41 PM
I doubt it, but I've been surprised by less, does c++ have a function that can take two ranges, return A sorted by the order of B, ie "foo(['a','b','c'],[3,1,2])` would return ['b','c','d']
 
I don't think so, no.
 
oh dear, that was an entire album of Pantera... and it's a great one that I can't stop now.
 
It's trivial to write though.
 
@Jefffrey ... go on then
 
alright
 
8:43 PM
and this folks is CDD, Challenge Driven Development :D
 
I would have called FYDD- fuck you driven development
3
 
I like puppys idea
 
good idea pippa
 
@Jefffrey erm... are actually writing that or should I stop twiddling my thumbs?
 
Wait
Are you sure about this: "foo(['a','b','c'],[3,1,2])` would return ['b','c','d']?
 
8:47 PM
@StackedCrooked lolwut
 
It actually removed an element and added another from the original range.
 
@Jefffrey derp :P it would return ['b', 'c', 'a'] sorry :D
 
struct T
{
    T(void* x) : (x) {}
};
wtf is this then
 
er, that does not make any more sense.
shouldn't it be c, a, b?
 
8:49 PM
o_0 yes :'(
 
lol
 
don't worry, I do feel bad
 
@Puppy It does
 
dyslexia must be hilarious when specifying a function
 
@thecoshman You just have to zip the indexes and the elements in a container of pairs.
Sort those pairs based on the first
And then unzip and return the elements only
In Haskell it would be: let fn a b = map snd . sortBy (compare `on` fst) . zip a $ b
Or something
 
Xeo
8:52 PM
@Jefffrey zipWith (,) is zip
 
thanks
 
Xeo
that still won't quite work, zip is a binary function
 
you won't still quite work.
 
Xeo
What are you trying to do with that? (I didn't follow the context)
 
user1804599
Alright, I sorted out the equivalence operators for Mill.
 
8:54 PM
λ let fn a b = map snd . sortBy (compare `on` fst) . zip b $ a
λ fn ['a','b','c'] [3,1,2]
"bca"
yup
 
user1804599
is and isnt compare identity which is derived from the overloadable function func identity(x: T): Identity. == and != compare structural equivalence, so even though arrays are mutable they can compare equal even if they have a different identity. eq and ne check numeric equivalence, so you can compare integers to floats etc.
 
fail
should be c, a, b.
 
user1804599
That should work very well.
 
Xeo
@Puppy No?
 
0
Q: error: anachronistic old-style base class initializer

Lightning Racis in ObritThe following code produces the subsequent compilation error on all versions of GCC that I've tried, in C++98, C++11 and C++14 modes: struct T { T(void* x) : (x) {} }; // main.cpp: In constructor 'T::T(void*)': // main.cpp:3:18: error: anachronistic old-style base class initializer [-fpermi...

 
8:55 PM
@Puppy gg
 
quite clearly yes.
 
It depends on what he means
If the indexes are the positions of the corresponding elements, then I'm right.
 
yeah the original spec was, well, minimalistic at best.
 
If the indexes are indexes of the element in that position, then puppy is right.
I'm following the original specification.
 
coshman didn't even know which one he meant.
 
8:56 PM
Yeah.
Gotta to.
 
@Jefffrey I don't want no haskell shit :P I've got a python version of the function, I just need to port that over to C++
 
Bye all.
 
clearly for completeness you should implement both versions.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Amen.
 
goddamnit
 
8:57 PM
@StackedCrooked ;p
 
Oh wait. Is God supposed to say "amen"?
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey Oh, and btw: sortBy . (compare `on`) is sortWith (GHC ext)
 
I just realized that if he had changed his name to "Raisin" instead of "Racisin", we could have made a whole bunch of "I will now leave Earth for no raisin" jokes.
 
@Puppy wait no, I was right second time, jeff did the write (wrong language) impl
 
@thecoshman Kinda says something that you don't even really know what the intended behaviour is :P
 
8:59 PM
@Puppy that I'm not paying too much attention
 
did you even have attention to pay in the first place :P
 
@Puppy sure
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Do you know if glload handles wgl functions? I'm missing things like wglCreateContextAttribs to pull out higher versions of a GL Context.
 
oh god that was horrific, some sort of slow paced r n b (I think is what that tripe is called) version of Welcome to the Jungle
 
user1804599
Alright, 61 keywords.
 
9:03 PM
so, I'll for(0 .. array.length) copy element [i] from each array into an array of pairs, then sort that array using a custom comparator and then copy each element out taking the first... so I can't really help but use a good chunk of ram but meh
 
user1804599
@thecoshman pfft array.length. In Perl that's just for (0..@array)!
 
Xeo
@thecoshman There's better ways
 
@райтфолд pseudo (sp?) vOv
@Xeo go on...
well yeah I could do something like have my own sort algo but BALLS to that
 
user1804599
@thecoshman pfft, sorting with comparators
 
user1804599
low level primitive shit APIs
 
Xeo
9:06 PM
Just so I got it right - you want to sort one container based on indices in another container?
 
user3010322
Agh, fuck it.
 
user3010322
I'll just implement a separate context object for each version of OpenGL.
 
user3010322
And then throw exceptions when people use functions that aren't accessible in later versions.
 
Xeo
No wait, based on "connected" elements in another container, I guess.
 
user3010322
Too difficult to track all of this version bullshit.
 
9:07 PM
@CatPlusPlus think the we solved the GC thing. Scope is extended in debug.
 
@Xeo yes, sort the second container on it's 'natural order', but as you swap the elements in the second, swap the same indexes in the first array.
The first array will not be 'in order'
 
Xeo
got access to Boost?
 
ie, I want to take int a[]; int b[] then sort them like I had struct foo{ int a, b; bool operator< (int l, int r){ return l < r; }};
 
user1804599
Ugh, in Mercury =< is LE comparison.
 
user1804599
<= is "is implied by." :v
 
9:09 PM
@Xeo I could do...
but dependency-less would be nice
 
user1804599
coooooool nigel farage
 
user1804599
Is there a two-character word that means the opposite of "is"?
 
si ;)
 
@райтфолд depends on what you mean by 'is' I think... it can be used in a few subtly different ways.
 
user1804599
"is identical to"
 
Xeo
9:19 PM
@thecoshman welp nvm, boost is being stupid
 
user1804599
Currenly I do isnt but that's ugly since it's not the same amount of characters as is.
 
How about !is
 
@Xeo I think I've got a solution... just testing it
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Ugly.
 
user1804599
IIRC D does that!
 
user1804599
9:22 PM
@fredoverflow Too confusing for Spanish programmers!
 
user1804599
I should go with isn't instead of isnt.
 
That is not confusing for spanish progs
 
"no"
(this no glory)
 
user1804599
Too similar to ne.
 
fuck that
 
9:24 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp I don't know too much about expression templates. I know you can use them to build up expressions and evaluate them faster but I don't see how that maps to the property binding stuff I showed you.
 
user1804599
isn't it is.
 
@райтфолд go
 
Do you also allow !isn't for is?
 
user1804599
No.
 
"nis"
 
9:27 PM
@sehe not three letters
 
not has indeed three letters
 
user1804599
leg or cmp?
 
user1804599
leg fits better with <=>.
 
user1804599
But cmp is less confusing.
 
foot fits better with mouth
 
user1804599
9:28 PM
if you're a foot fetishist, sure
 
cmp cause it sounds more programmatic
 
@Pris what you are really doing is lazy evaluation of the expressions (data-members) involved
 
strcmp vs strleg....you choose
 
@райтфолд no I just feel the sudden urge to <foot-in-mouth/>
leg is what you can stand on
 
9:29 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp That link I showed you didn't have lazy eval, it updated all dependents (using that 'notify' function) whenever you updated a given property
 
@райтфолд dank je wel
 
user1804599
:3
 
@райтфолд Pick your poison.
 
@Pris I'd call that an implementation-detail, even though the approach differs a bit (instead of rereading the data-members involved when the property is being read, you write to the properties when a dependent is being written to)
 
here we are, both what I wanted to do and how to do it :P
 
9:31 PM
@fredoverflow that's echo {a..z}{a..z} right
 
@Pris actually I'd prefer if dependent entities (ie. the properties) reads the source value(s) when the value is requested, since this would not mandate that the source properties being a magic type
 
ignore the fact that I have a vector printing function...
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Could you elaborate on how template expressions apply to this?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Pretty sure I can do that shorter in Perl 6: ($_ X~ $_ given 'a'..'z')>>.say.
 
user1804599
:)
 
9:33 PM
@Pris just as the implementation you are talking about uses lambdas for storing away the expressions, you could use expression templates (or a variation on such, but that boils down to doing the same thing) to store away the expression effectively executing it at a later time)
 
user1804599
Silly primitive verbose languages like Haskell!
 
user1804599
@sehe wrong; newlines
 
user1804599
You want for x in {a..z}{a..z}; echo $x.
 
@Pris I wrote a really hackish implementation (using std::function) when we spoke last, I'll dig it up from /tmp
 
@райтфолд xargs -n1 <<< {a..z}{a..z}
 
user1804599
9:35 PM
:O
 
doesn't work :(
 
@StackedCrooked Did you see the answers to that
 
brace expansion no worky input redirect
 
it's quite cool
 
@LightningRacisinObrit no
 
9:36 PM
3
A: error: anachronistic old-style base class initializer

Lightning Racis in ObritIndeed this is not valid standard C++, so we must look to the annals of the language's history to find the point at which this became invalid. In 1989, when further defining "C++" since its original inception under that name in 1985, Stroustrup declared that base initialisation had changed from ...

 
user1804599
isn't it is.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit cool
 
@райтфолд nicer, shorter list
 
@StackedCrooked y u no upboat
never mind
 
lol, ok
 
9:38 PM
@sehe pipe it?
 
...
uptalk? obvious non questions?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow ($_ X~ $_ given 'a'..'z').grep(/<[aeoui]>/)>>.say :)
 
@райтфолд How about ni for isn't?
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Wouldn't using expression templates make the binding permanent? ie you can't modify it. Also I agree with your point about lazy evaluation, but I believe the aggressive update is done to allow for signalling changes, so you can react to an update (ie. width*height = area, create an 'onAreaChanged' function which is called when either width or height are modified)
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow For "not identical" :D
 
9:40 PM
Yeah, kinda like eq and ne in Scala :)
 
@Pris that could be done nonetheless, one doesn't exclude the other
 
oh man jalapeno humus i wonder how this will taste
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow I already have eq and ne for something else. :p
 
@Pris and about making the binding permanent, adding functionality for "unbinding" the binding isn't such a big deal
 
You reserve all two-character-identifiers as potential future keywords.
 
user1804599
9:41 PM
1 is 1.0 is false, 1 == 1.0 is a type error and 1 eq 1.0 is true!
 
NaN is NaN
 
user1804599
I should make 0 a method on 1. :)
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow There's no NaN.
 
user1804599
NaN is a terrible idea.
 
user1804599
9:42 PM
Exception or GTFO.
 
@Pris struct A { std::string data; Lazy<std::string&> alias = data; Lazy<std::string::size> data_size = lazy(data).call (&std::string::size); Lazy<std::string::size> double_len = data_size * 2; }; would that be a sufficient example?
 
Naan, nan or khamiri is a leavened, oven-baked flatbread found in the cuisines of West, Central and South Asia. With the migration of the Roma people from India, it spread to other parts of West Asia. == Etymology == The earliest appearance of "nan" in English is from 1810, in a travelogue of William Tooke. The Persian word nān 'bread' (Uzbek non/нон) is already attested in Middle-Persian/Pahlavi as n'n 'bread, food'. The form itself is of Iranian origin; cognate forms include Parthian ngn, Balochi nagan, Sogdian nγn-, Pashto nəγan 'bread'. The form naan has a widespread distribution, having been...
 
the .call notation is just for fun
 
Nope, I was wrong.
 
optional<double> could be implemented using NaN instead of storing an extra flag
 
Xeo
9:44 PM
@StackedCrooked that's a bad idea
 
What if you need Some(NaN)?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow even shorter: ('aa'..'zz')>>.say
 
@Pris do not judge me based on this, it's a freakin' hack and I'd clean it up if I'd ever put my name on it
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked no; that would introduce a special case.
 
user1804599
Never introduce special cases anywhere.
 
9:45 PM
@Pris it can be written far cleaner, and far more efficient
 
user1804599
Introduce a single special case and it's instantly impossible to write any generic code.
 
@райтфолд you are a special case
 
Xeo
@FilipRoséen-refp Well, you just put your name on it by linking to it! :P
 
@Xeo I never said that I wrote it
 
Xeo
> do not judge me
that's implied
 
9:49 PM
I mean, I kinda implied that I did up the backlog, but maybe I stole it from some blog?
I'm black.. doesn't the Internet expect me to steal bikes and such?
yes, I just pulled the racist card to clear my name.
 
Xeo
My bike is black, and I don't expect it to steal people.
 
@Xeo it'd be quite the bike if it was able to steal people
 
@FilipRoséen-refp thats awesome and also terrifying
 
@Pris well.. erhm, it's a hack
 
Xeo
@Puppy So, what about that Starbound MP now?
 
user3010322
9:55 PM
@Xeo Does your company use OpenGL at all, and if so, what Level of OpenGL (3.3, 4.1, etc?)? What about for personal dev (if at all)?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD not directly, if anything
We got Unity and Unreal, and we use it through that, but otherwise.. no
 
user3010322
Ooh.
 
I want to hack together something cool, anyone have any ideas?
 
user3010322
Well then.
 
user3010322
.... Wait a second, you've been using Unreal and Unity at work? Since when? :o
 
9:58 PM
@FilipRoséen-refp Design a programming language ;)
 
@fredoverflow as if enough people in here aren't doing that already
 
Mar 27 at 1:20, by Jefffrey
Pawnguy's Jam: the themes are "snake" and the deadline is 2015-04-05T12:00:00.
 
What tech do they use?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD since a while ago
Your problem you're never here and hear me rant about Unreal :P
 

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