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2:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus vOv just use FB chat like the rest the world then. Seriously tough, what's the alternatives?
 
The Google docs comment system desperately needs @discourse. That is all.
oh god
 
I'm curious, what the fuck do you need from an email client that is not already in at least 1 email client?
 
That's just it, even if you replace it for personal communication, you still need to use it
It's a fucking shit vortex
You can't get out
 
Anyone know how to stop the console window from closing? I've gone to config properties --> linker ---> subsystem ---> set to console AND IT STILL CLOSES.
 
std::cin.ignore();
 
2:01 PM
nvm
forgot to do ctrl f5
 
Try jumping
 
I'm really happy right now.
 
WTB> console integration in the "output" window of VS
 
With my email client I can forward email, send emails (even with attachments WOOOO), receive emails, delete emails and archive emails.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think it would be ok to have EU as thing there. But then Finland.
 
2:03 PM
It's just so awesome.
 
Clearly that means nobody needs anything more
 
What do you need more?
 
It's a serious question.
 
@Jefffrey So what do I do without a webmail? ssh into the server?
 
2:04 PM
privacy for one thing, like actual decent dependable privacy
 
Not broken search, not broken folder handling (hello Thunderbird the mail in All Mail that you mark as not read is the one I just read in inbox thanks)
 
very practical yes
 
@CatPlusPlus Wait, Åland Islands, what.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Actually I'm starting to consider that
 
@thecoshman There's no privacy on the internet.
 
2:05 PM
IMAP is also a retarded piece of shit
 
@Jefffrey precisely
 
Which significantly contributes to why email clients are so bad
 
@CatPlusPlus What's broken about search? I can search any bunch of keywords by title, ccs, destination, content, attachment.
 
@Jefffrey It's not all-or-nothing.
 
It's inaccurate as fuck also you're starting to sound like lrio defending SO chat search
 
2:06 PM
Not to mention that folder handling is not broken in my email client.
 
(Thunderbird search I'm talking about right now, dunno about others)
 
If I read an email, it's updated everywhere.
 
And which one is that
lol if gmail webmail
 
So what you did is try Thunderbird, and conclude that every email client if crap. Good job.
 
No, I tried a lot of other clients, and concluded that Thunderbird is least bad
 
2:08 PM
it can't be that hard to make an open source version of gmail... inb4 it's more than trivial
 
Have you seen IMAP
Did you know that threading doesn't exist in emails
 
@CatPlusPlus But then how if you're using for some reason a computer without an ssh client
 
@CatPlusPlus oh sure, why would you ever want that
 
@ParkYoung-Bae PuTTY is cheap.
As in, cheap to obtain.
 
Did you know that quoting collapse is a fucking patented thing because that's how hard it is
 
2:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus It exists in Mail. In fact it's the default behaviour.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae why are you using it?
 
@Jefffrey It's a hack
 
Also my roommate brought his girlfriend and she put HAIR EVERYWHERE AGAIN and these people are over 30 how are they not clean idgi
 
Emails by themselves don't have any solid metadata for that
 
So? That's irrelevant as fuck.
 
2:10 PM
@CatPlusPlus I do not defend SO chat search.
Try to do less slander.
 
So writing a client requires doing shit like this jwz.org/doc/threading.html
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ... hair tends to do that :(
 
inb4 you use SO chat search to prove me wrong
... successfully.
either way, I win, bitch
 
lol
 
@ParkYoung-Bae PuTTY is a 512k xcopy-deployable uncompressed single-file download. And Linux machines without SSH are funny.
 
2:11 PM
It's not irrelevant because the context is writing an email client??? :psyduck:
 
No, the context is "email clients all suck"
 
No, pay more attention
 
You do it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, if it doesn't need install then that's probably fine
 
@ParkYoung-Bae lol using your things from computers you don't fully control
3 mins ago, by thecoshman
it can't be that hard to make an open source version of gmail... inb4 it's more than trivial
jesus christ
 
2:12 PM
@ParkYoung-Bae You won't have a key, though.
 
11 mins ago, by Jefffrey
I'm curious, what the fuck do you need from an email client that is not already in at least 1 email client?
Dear lord
 
Cat's getting worse
 
:cripes:
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Right.
 
2:12 PM
Good job trying to move the point of the discussion though.
 
He's just getting replies from Jefffrey about a different conversation.
@Jefffrey AFAICS cosh started a different one.
 
1 hour ago, by khajvah
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't think this room is about deliberate getting into idiotic arguments.
 
I'm not sure why @Jefffrey insists on being on the wrong side of this argument tbh
 
I NEVER USED EMAIL IN ANY SERIOUS CAPACITY WHY DO YOU THINK EMAIL IS BAD
4
Using GMail webmail is a non-starter anyway because I have multiple mail accounts from different providers and lol fuck if I'm going to store them on Google servers
 
2:14 PM
The one I'm having with Cat clearly is "Cat: all email clients suck; me: no they don't". Neither of us ever mentioned implementation until now, and "email client" is pretty much in every message.
 
NOT IN THIS ONE
 
Besides pooling email has another set of problems associated with it
 
I swear if I ever meet Cat I'm going to slap him in the face for being a persistent numpty
 
I'd love to replace Thunderbird with something better
 
@CatPlusPlus lol, and you do? Let's hear all about your pro skills in using emails.
 
2:15 PM
@Jefffrey Yes, and you replied to his replies to cosh assuming they were to you. It's just a big misunderstanding.
 
Ligthness if you could please stop with your ad quoram non quolibet
 
But there is just. no. choice.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That would be a first
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not important anyway. I'm claiming that he is wrong about that. That's not a misunderstanding. Unless of course I misread "emails clients are all bad".
 
2:16 PM
> A single PC and monitor left running for 24 hours a day will cost you over EUR 70 a year!
 
Because you know my requirements better than I do
 
oh noes!!!
 
@CatPlusPlus That's why I'm asking you super pro requirements.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did what?
 
It's the very first question I asked.
 
2:17 PM
@Jefffrey When you said "That's irrelevant as fuck."... of course it is irrelevant. That thing was meant for cosh. That's all.
 
I'm confus now
 
jesus
 
All of you just shut up
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes If Cat learned to reply to messages, maybe that wouldn't have happened.
Also no
 
Well, he explained it three minutes later.
 
2:18 PM
8 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
@Jefffrey It's a hack
 
imo clients do the best they can to make smtp/imap tolerable
 
8 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Emails by themselves don't have any solid metadata for that
That's the message I replied to ^
 
Also owncloud is terrible
 
Which is clearly linked to the one above.
 
@CatPlusPlus fucking email shit
 
2:19 PM
Which is explicitly directed to me.
 
@Jefffrey Yes, threading is a hack, and if you want to implement a mail client (what he was discussing with cosh), you need hacks like that.
 
What I don't get is why do you feel the need to defend this hodgepodge of shitty hacks designed by drunk monkeys 40 years ago
 
Because not everything is as bad as you picture it.
 
Any person that has to deal with medium to large amount of emails will tell you that it's shit
 
And all I hear about you is complaining about every single fucking thing.
 
2:20 PM
Not true, only most of them
 
And now you are using the "I use emails in a pro manner and you don't" argument. Which I'm pretty sure it's a fallacy.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae imo; single server != (in nay way) 'cloud'
 
Every client is either missing features, or has other problems
 
That doesn't make it total crap.
 
2:20 PM
Cloud is a buzzword
 
wah wah wah no software is perfect wah wah wah
now shut up
 
:22318347 don't take that tone with me!
 
Also everything has flaws. You included.
 
I'm sorry I'm tired of dealing with broken shitty software ;_;
 
@CatPlusPlus cloudword
 
2:21 PM
@thecoshman I just care about synchronizing my stuff to somewhere, I don't need my dick pics to be spread over 150 datacenters
 
You want something better? Stop whining and do something about it.
 
Lightness, thanks. It's what I thought, but it's nice to have someone else to confirm it.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Just put it on S3
@Jefffrey Now that's a fallacy
 
@OmnipotentEntity np
 
@ParkYoung-Bae rsync + cron = hack done
 
2:21 PM
@CatPlusPlus What fallacy?
 
@thecoshman But andriod integration
 
@ParkYoung-Bae rsync + cron?
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't trust them
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Encrypt it beforehand duh
 
But truecrypt is abandoned
 
2:22 PM
GPG isn't
 
@CatPlusPlus but that's mostly down to how badly they are abused.
 
I'm not claiming that any software is perfect. I'm claiming that whining accomplishes nothing. If you find that something is broken, the best bet is to go ahead and fix it.
 
> As far as I know there are no timers that generate a IOCP completion when they expire.
Shit.
 
I think it would be interesting if Cat made a list of important stuff that sucks and why. It could serve as an inspiration for a successful project
 
Perfect software is a fallacy. But I'm sure you know that better than I do.
 
2:23 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit and this is rehashing non-news
 
@Jefffrey The PR fallacy.
 
You don't need solutions to recognise problems
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What does PR stand for. Come on!
 
And besides even if I design a better system, it's not going to do anything
 
@Jefffrey Pull Request.
(I just made up the name)
 
2:24 PM
@Jefffrey Public relations
 
lol
 
You can't replace email
 
where's my popcorn
 
I thought Problem report
37 mins ago, by sehe
@rlemon popnotchporn
 
it's second time this week people are flinging shit and I'm not in the discussion
 
2:24 PM
Even if you convince IETF to obsolete it and promote new standard to draft and bluh bluh bluh
 
what's going on
 
Bartek flinging shit is not your exclusivity
 
It'll take fucking decades before it's anywhere near email adoption
 
@ParkYoung-Bae but he does it so well
 
Yeah, the best improvements in history were made because someone kept saying "this is not possible" and someone couldn't listen.
 
2:25 PM
Assuming people will care to put money into that
Which is not given
 
@BartekBanachewicz see, you've made yourself redundant. You've earned yourself "manager" qualifications
 
Is the discussion about emails sucking as a system/concept, or about email clients sucking?
 
@CatPlusPlus except it's not "oh look, this does something that nothing else does" it has to be better than email
 
@AndyProwl Both
 
@AndyProwl Nobody knows
 
2:26 PM
Those facts are fairly tightly connected
 
I see
 
they cripple each other
 
What's wrong with the idea of emails per se?
 
@Jefffrey It's not "not possible", it's just not practical and is just shitload of effort for literally zero return
 
oh god just dont
 
2:27 PM
Oh hey I can spend 10 years convincing everyone to switch to my system which will then take another 60 years wooooooooooooooooooooo
 
@AndyProwl the concept, nothing. It's a great idea. I have a mailbox, people can send me messages. Brilliant idea! the implementation, fucking terrible
 
@CatPlusPlus "email is really shit and impractical" "imagine if there were a better system" "yeah but nobody would do it because there would be 'literally zero return'" wtf
 
We still need people that don't listen to cats on the internet in this industry though
 
@AndyProwl as soon as people communicate, war starts to kindle
 
@CatPlusPlus Let's do nothing and complain all day wooooooooooo
 
2:27 PM
It's not the concept, but the design didn't age gracefully at all
 
I see
 
Cat's flippant cynicism used to be amusing but it appears to have involved into an almost malicious belligerence about all things
 
So we're talking about the protocols right?
 
It was designed when Internet was tiny and you could trust way more of it
 
@CatPlusPlus nobody predicted that growth
except maybe Xerox
 
2:28 PM
There should be a rule to only be able to complain about something if you are in possession of a viable alternative.
 
smtp is basically sticky notes and 'personal' boards for those sticky notes.
 
but Xerox doesn't give a shit
@Jefffrey that's nonsense
 
@Jefffrey Yeah no
 
@Jefffrey That rules out 99% of bug reports.
 
@Jefffrey That's the PR fallacy.
 
2:29 PM
@Jefffrey utter bollox
 
lol
 
I'm taking that name.
 
@Jefffrey (QA generally does not produce patches.)
 
Read some of the IMAP spec if you want to dip into the horror
 
lol Jeff being bashed
 
2:29 PM
@CatPlusPlus vOv just need smtp 2.0
 
That's one part
But better client protocol is also badly needed
 
Probably even more than server one
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit There's a difference between complaining and reporting. Reporting is already in the "let's fix" mentality. Complaining leads to nothing and is only toxic. Just like there's a difference between constructive criticism and non-constructive one.
 
2:30 PM
For what purpose?
 
fyi smtp 2.0 would include details about clients
 
What details
 
One fool can ask more questions in an hour than 10 wise men can answer in a lifetime /cc @LightnessRacesinOrbit
 
IOW way to derail a conversation noise domination
 
2:31 PM
well... smtp is the server-server spec... not sure if it would be better/worse/no difference to have the server-client spec in the same spec
 
So what makes criticism constructive?
 
A modicum of facts doesn't hurt, for a start.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes apparently having the solution vOv
 
Being fair, not being a dick, and offering alternatives if available.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's no clear definition. Unless we are talking about Cat.
@thecoshman Yeah, good job misinterpreting my words. That's another fallacy.
 
2:32 PM
@thecoshman Eh, it being a separate spec doesn't really make a difference
The protocol could be similar to make implementations simpler I guess
But you need to have a migration plan, an alternative would have to be deployed incrementally
 
@thecoshman Since when do users pick up their mail via SMTP? This "server/server" vs "server/client" distinction is meaningless and wrong, unless the entire architecture has fundamentally changed in the new proposal.
 
@Jefffrey Great, I understand what you mean now. It's not clear, though.
 
Client protocols are probably easier to start with, since you would need to just convince Google and Microsoft to implement it for others to follow
 
Email is just fine quit whining
 
@Jefffrey I consider complaining a basic human right if not a vital one
 
2:35 PM
Well, it's not.
 
I wish people complained about my code more
 
@CatPlusPlus can't see Google supporting something that make it easier for others to sneak in.
@BartekBanachewicz it's worthless :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz I could lend a hand or five
 
So...
 
user1804599
 
@thecoshman vOv
 
I have been reading some personal ads. Some of the women claim to be "perceptive." I wonder if that is the Danning Krueger effect at works, they are just in awe from themselves when they see something, or if the women are really somehow seeing more of the world/truth.
 
> It's using a flawed language
 
@райтфолд Interesting casing
 
@wilx Don't discount the possibility it is just marketing.
 
2:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Have you seen reviewable.io?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Self marketing? "Sales pitch?"
 
@wilx Yes. There's bound to be a lot of that.
 
@CatPlusPlus No. looks interesting.
But also looks complicated
 
I shudder when I see .io TLD
Oh the design of the site looks neat
 
@wilx And 'perceptive' sounds like the right kind of word for that. It sounds like a good thing, but it's vague enough that it can be weaseled into or out of easily.
 
2:40 PM
> I can has testimonials?
:cringe:
 
@BartekBanachewicz Seems fairly standard for review stuff
 
@wilx Like 'team spirit' in job applications.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Heh. True.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see.
 
> Must enjoy working with shitty colleagues.
 
@CatPlusPlus welp I wonder who is supposed to review my Hate code anyway :(
 
2:45 PM
Dunno, I won't say me because you already have more Haskell code than I've ever written so
 
left a part of my lunch at home :(
 
how the fuck do you leave just part of your lunch at home
 
By taking a part of it only, obv
 
@CatPlusPlus like quantity matters that much
shit last commit was 20 days ago
 
Tragedy
 
2:49 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You have it in two containers and take only one?
 
*two or more
 
*take only a strict subset
 
@Borgleader Yeah, we've been discussing this earlier. Not nice
 
@Puppy spot late for lunch old sport
 
2:51 PM
@thecoshman I know.
jQuery won't set events on object tags but instead of telling you this if you try, it just silently fails, so you spend three hours trying to figure out why the fuck your events won't fire.
 
@BartekBanachewicz you must be constipated!
 
@Borgleader Demonic possession.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or possession of demon?
 
It also appears that @MarkGarcia was right and there was a code-based system to enter the cockpit, but apparently the captain who was left locked out did not type it
 
@AndyProwl o_0
 
2:54 PM
welp jennifer lawrence gets 10-15 million $ for a movie
for that shitty acting
 
that seems rather strange
 
Yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz which one?
 
@thecoshman Dunno. I think panic is a reasonable explanation.
 
@AndyProwl There's an override inside the cockpit.
 
2:55 PM
@Puppy Yes, but it appears the captain did not type the code
At least that is what Lufthansa's CEO mentioned during the press conference
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 9 minutes? fair enough, that could have been like 8 minutes of grunting out a shit
 
well, I guess I would have tried, but it seems not unreasonable that if he figured out that the copilot was actively trying to destroy the plane that he would have already used the override
 
@thecoshman in general
 
@BartekBanachewicz isn't she one of these 'hot' people?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think she does a great job at playing those shitty characters in those shitty stories.
 
2:57 PM
if by "hot" you mean "naked pictures of distributed widely over Internet", then yes
 
@thecoshman fuck if I know
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno, first Hunger Games was absolutely crap imho
 
@Puppy yes that.
 
heard that the book was better but never got around to read it
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's what I said, no?
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep. It was a form of agreement.
@R.MartinhoFernandes what? It's not like I was particularly motivated by the movie.
 
2:59 PM
It's just the same derivative YA shit.
 
I wasn't prejudiced towards it or anything, quite the contrary.
 
Though I guess you cannot call that particular one derivative.
 
Young-adult fiction or young adult literature, often termed as YA, is fiction written, published, or marketed to adolescents and young adults. The Young Adult Library Services Association (YALSA) of the American Library Association (ALA) defines a young adult as someone between the ages of twelve and eighteen. Authors and readers of young adult (YA) novels often define the category as literature traditionally written for ages ranging from sixteen years to the age of twenty-five, while Teen Fiction is written for the ages of ten to fifteen. The terms young-adult novel, juvenile novel, young-adult...
that?
 
> Modern. Fast. Beautiful. Awesome.
 

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