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16:00
the core issue is that you have two situations with conflicting requirements.
@Puppy um, no.
you don't want to end up with OrcRender OrcModel etc, but you also want to separate those two concerns.
In my approach you're not ending up with OrcRender
you create a model and operations on it, and graphics is completely stateless
you still have to define Orc-external routines that deal with rendering an Orc, specifically.
model stays pure (sans ~random)
16:01
hmm.
on reflection, I'm not actually sure why I objected to that so strongly, it seems perfectly logical right now.
perhaps I should take a moment to shake off the millenia of cruft that's built up over this stuff in my head
@Puppy oh, certainly. That's why MVVM is perhaps a bad name for it. It's more just a model and a view.
MV.
inb4 components.
ah well it becomes a little more complex when you do have to share state in your graphics engine, like I dunno, textures, meshes, etc.
@Puppy lightweight handles.
they're still state that have to live somewhere.
since I'm writing a framework, I'm fine with providing that storage as a global
16:05
wat
it's just a cache.
hm
arguably true.
View routines describe shaders, textures, models to be used when drawing an orc, but they don't care where they are stored.
They express their needs, and aren't concerned with implementation
bah fucking tar shit can't archive anything.
@Puppy Lol tar
16:08
and yeah, I like the "update/draw" distinction now that I think of it
update: runs with consistent time spans (you don't need explicit dt), gives you write access to state
draw: runs whenever the screen is ready, gives you readonly access
@Puppy hrmmm what
@AlexM. so how does it look?
trying to build a base box for Vagrant because there are no pre-packaged ones that work
@BartekBanachewicz like XNA
the docs say to tar the thing and then vagrant untars it somewhere
but vagrant uses bsdtar and I have gnutar and Vagrant won't untar the gnutarred archive.
16:11
@AlexM. this tells me exactly nothing, as I haven't used it. And being so good, it's weird that it died.
I've only used Corona, Love and XNA, and I enjoyed working with XNA the most
@AlexM. interesting. Elaborate.
what do you want me to say?
and bsdtar crashes if I try to run it to tar my stuff
@AlexM. Why do you prefer working with XNA over Love or Corona?
16:11
@AlexM. Nooble is the number one koala.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy compat mode on gnutar somewhere?
^ dat
@Puppy :| so the problem is bsdtar. I remember using it. On AIX I think. Quickly installed GNU tar. I mean, you don't actually go and complain that MSDOS PKZIP.EXE doesn't even support long filenames either, right
@Puppy lol o.O
Xeo
Xeo
Or can't you set the untar program for vagrant?
@Xeo Apparently there is a portability option, but it clearly requires a lot more than just passing it, since I now have an archive called --portability
Xeo
Xeo
lol
gg
16:15
@BartekBanachewicz because it's C# .NET, mainly, and I get an update and draw loop and then I can do whatever I want
@BartekBanachewicz @Puppy You guys seems to be having an interesting conversation... I should read through it when I have time. #orcbookmark
the Vagrant website literally lists the the tar command to use.
ahaha "#orcbookmark"
Corona has an event-based system IIRC from the last game I did with it
I personally didn't like it
Love is ok apart from Lua

Game graphics design with Orcs

1 hour ago, 57 minutes total – 118 messages, 9 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked 9 secs ago by Bartek Banachewicz

@AlexM. I see.
16:17
judging by what you've outputted here, I wouldn't even know how to get a sprite on the screen without obsessively trying to keep some weird design balance :\
can I load a texture into an object and pass it to a method to get it on the screen
that's a good way to get something on the screen
@AlexM. I suggest you start with that and see how well your current designs hold
so far I have tar cvzf --format=gnu archive folder
but tar seems incapable of parsing the format as an argument.
> update: runs with consistent time spans (you don't need explicit dt), gives you write access to state
why no access to the time spent between frames?
@AlexM. perhaps. Is this a good way to write a whole game, though?
@AlexM. you don't have to pass explicit dt variable and multiply by it, your physics won't destabilize as easily
also from memory it's hell to multiplayer any game that involves dt.
16:19
dt can also be used to accumulate in-game time between updates
some dude wrote some seriously convincing article on why dt is shit, I've just forgotten what it was.
@AlexM. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get that with my approach too.
Also I think that interval actions should be processed separately.
what is your approach, how do I get the time between frames in your solution
yeah you know that's my problem with it
@AlexM. That's your Y. What's your X?
I need to split things into so many parts
16:21
3 instead of 2? 4 if you count scheduler.
I can't even prototype something quickly
grrr
I have to care about this awesome design
apparently tar can't handle the -o option because of integral overflow?
what cavemen designed this system.
@AlexM. I don't think that it's slowing you down. Actually I consider not having to deal with dt easier
because, y'know, it's one less thing to carry about
16:22
if I want a proper design for the end product I can write one myself, I haven't seen a language not allowing it
I dunno
by the look of things, I'd stick to Unity atm
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. Whatever you set the physics tickrate at will be your "dt"
if the end product is great
then I'll change my opinion
@Puppy What OS are you looking for
@CatPlusPlus Windows guest and host.
Also use Packer
16:23
@Xeo physics are not tied to the game update loop, you want them in a separate loop
to control the frequency of physics operations separately from the game's content update
@AlexM. what if your physics are simple?
there are some prepackaged Vagrant boxes for Windows, but the ones in the central thingie are down and the others I found simply don't work with that WinRM crap.
i.e. you're not running a full physics simulation
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. Erm. So?
16:24
> Whatever you set the physics tickrate at will be your "dt"
it makes this not make any sense
why should the physics interval affect the update interval if it's not related to it?
It's still an interval
@AlexM. what should be the update interval otherwise?
Doesn't matter if it's the same one or not
If you have two loops then you have dt1 and dt2 whatever
Variable step is still crappy
that's an entirely different thing
"Whatever you set the physics tickrate at will be your dt1"
whereas I was talking about dt2
Doesn't matter
16:25
@Puppy hehe order matters (hint: don't put it after -f)
w/e, I've no idea why I'm arguing about this tbh
good luck with the project, I'll keep out of it
@AlexM. because I asked you about your opinion
don't get angry, we're not attacking you
@sehe Apparently it does. I guess that these guys are behind even the cavemen.
I'm not angry, I feel like I'm talking about things I can't see properly
Of course the order matters for options that have an argument
16:27
@AlexM. What is still unclear for me is what you consider problematic in fixed step approach.
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy It's an annoying property of certain binutils, yeah. IIRC, ar has the same fun stuff.
what I understood from your approach is that there is no time between frames available in the update loop
You can put arguments after -f whatever
But there is literally no way to make -f not-the-argument-to-f argument-to-f work
if -f needs an argument it should be -f=blah, no?
It's either --long=option or -s option
Xeo
Xeo
16:29
^
the f without a - is just a quirky thing
to make the options more compact or something
@AlexM. and what problem does it pose?
You can type - and not merge options
@BartekBanachewicz lemme find a sample
tar -a -c -f foo.tar.gz dir/ works fine
I did indeed separate them out.
guess that's just the Vagrant people being super fucking confusing
16:30
They use bsdtar because it's the baseline tar that every tar implementation can read
say, a curse cooldown effect that lasts for 6 seconds; it's easy to use dt to count up the seconds until it's gone
GNU as usual has a shitload of extensions crammed into it
@CatPlusPlus I was referring to the tar command that they show.
@AlexM. And if your dt is constant then it's even easier
welp apparently bsdtar can't read --format=posix either
just fails with "(null)" as the failure output.
16:32
You don't need to use tar to package boxes anyway
nvm, my example was not exactly proper because in case of lag the cooldown gets decreased faster than it should
@AlexM. that's what I would ultimately solve in a scheduler. If your framework provides an easy to use one, you don't have to count; you just say "after 6 seconds from now, unlock the cooldown"
If you're not using Packer, then prepare VM as usual, and then use vagrant package --base vm-name --output box-file.box
vagrant package only for virtualbox
I have a need to use vmware although the free vbox seems much better
16:33
Then use Packer
Also VMware Player is not supported
@BartekBanachewicz yes, unity does that
it lets you invoke methods after X seconds
@R.MartinhoFernandes Should've been find
that makes more sense
I thought that VMWare player and VMware workstation used all the same files and stuff.
They don't have the same feature set
16:34
@AlexM. notice how you don't have to separate any code; you call the scheduling registration from regular update part
gah.
so even if I somehow miraculously succeeded in making these two fucking tars work together, I can't actually use VMWare like I need to.
VBox is fine apart from the quality of their Linux drivers
@CatPlusPlus After 15 years I can now do lns at first try. Sometimes.
Vagrant might have chosen to mention that.
I can't think of any use for dt except for movement over time now, ugh
16:36
Making a VM on VBox and then importing it on VMware probably wouldn't work anyway
Especially with Windows
I made it with vmware player
Drivers and guest additions wouldn't match
Then vice versa
yeah.
@AlexM. which can also be registered in (in lack of better name) TweenManager or similar
for anything else a slow machine would unbalance the game
16:37
so what it basically comes down to is that I simply cannot use Vagrant.
like in the cooldown effect
for someone updating 2x as slow the cooldown would get depleted 2x as fast
There are templates around to build Windows boxes
@AlexM. if you can't keep up with updating logic, then you won't be able to play anyway
16:37
hmm
I need a prebuilt box, then.
@AlexM. in case of a sudden framerate drop, more than one update step is run in succession. You can also balance them over time (that's why you see games rapidly syncing state with players moving faster than they should).
So, for example, you can state that the maximum time compression when you realize you're too slow is 5x
I'm looking at Packer and it does not appear to be what I actually might need, which is just Windows, Windows, and more Windows.
It takes a template that describes a VM and builds a VM out of it
but each update call only advances the world by that fixed step
16:41
@BartekBanachewicz that makes sense
I get it now
good design doesn't necessarily mean "overcomplicated" :)
hmm
that... could work, I guess.
ok, apparently Packer cannot handle being run in a different directory to the template.
0
Q: Could any one help me to optimize below class?

NayanC++ class has the following member: int status_[75]; During performance analysis it was found out that the class (its object) was performing unsatisfactorily making it a necessary candidate for optimization. The following additional information was also found out *) Each e...

lol
Formatting fail of the year, for now
... and gone
16:59
@BartekBanachewicz imo it's making things look simpler than they really are.
@thecoshman what is making things simpler?
-1
Q: Can someone tell me how to call a lua function?

KOman lI am such a noob and I need to know how to call a function in lua I will give example function. local function exampleHD(event) --Function details and such end How would I call this for "local obj = display.newImageRect( "Random.jpg" , 90, 60 )"

hm, funny. I flagged that comment, but retained the link to it, and it pasted the question.
@BartekBanachewicz :P
depends on context.
What depends on context?
@BartekBanachewicz what is simpler
The thing
17:08
> comparative form of simple: more simple Less complicated or challenging.
for example, a well designed phone (you know, those old landline things) does't requires you to press any more buttons than the number.
it also has only one feature instead of many, many features.
@thecoshman You mean those things that started dialing as soon as you pressed the first button/did the first turn on the dial?
@Puppy sure, but it does that well
17:09
sure, but I don't care and it simply doesn't appear to matter.
may as well argue that our species should survive because we're great at doing shits.
Also no caller ID, so really they were neither simpler nor better designed
So I guess good example
Good job
¬_¬ it was a detail of good design, not a 100% perfect everything
that detail becomes quite immaterial in the context
that detail would have inevitably had to have massively changed to permit a comparable context.
Which detail
I operated a rotary dial phone last Saturday.
17:20
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did the 1960's call?
@Puppy The number of laxatives on the market would apparently argue that we're not so great at doing shits.
Xeo
Xeo
17:37
@thecoshman That should carry a NSFW (not safe for wallet) warning for @R.MartinhoFernandes
@Xeo my thoughts exactly :P
user1804599
> AVIABLE
@R.MartinhoFernandes -.-
17:55
I look to see Stefan on every television in the world, pinky firmly planted in the corner of his mouth, saying "I will blow up Mount Everest unless I get one meeeleeonnnn dollars." — dazedandconfused 2 hours ago
bah
fucking packer template thingies no better, except I had to wait an hour to do it
user1804599
> asked 4 mins ago
Xeo
Xeo
hooooome
1 message moved to bin
Don't do that
TIL that the two best selling French language albums of all time were both written by Jean-Jacques Goldman and interpreted by Céline Dion.
this wintermute guy is pretty good
inb4 vlad
@BartekBanachewicz The AI in Neuromancer?
> member for 54 days
it can't be vlad
wintermute's english is too clean
@BartekBanachewicz the English is too good
unless the whole "Russian prince" thing is just an act...
@AlexM. jinx
anyway ttyl
18:17
I've been upvoting a number of answers of this guy, can't remember downvoting one.
yeah, he writes good stuff
commented on a few of my answers with really helpful remarks
@Wintermute we like you
the KFC chick gave me a big coke but medium fries :\
I ordered a big menu
on the bill it says small menu
what the fuck
I won't even bother explaining it and just suppose that she wants the D
@AlexM. Why bother, the half of the big coke, will be double the calories as the half of the big fries :)
Don't rape her, please.
user1804599
@AlexM. don't go to shitty unrestaurants and the problem is solved.
18:24
I was just confused
I'm not sure if I paid more or less than for what I got
that's a weird combination
user1804599
@AlexM. even a single penny is too much for that shit.
@thecoshman 13th or before is OK with me, 20th is not, 27th is OK again, the w/e after is not
people getting married and stuff
invitations I can't decline and so on
9 hours ago, by FredOverflow
I'm having an appointment with the dentist today. If I don't survive, avenge my death. And keep my answers up to date!
Ok, I made it back from the dentist, and I'm still alive. I think...
@AndyProwl inconsiderate gits (inb4 source control related joke)
18:39
right
Xeo
Xeo
@thecoshman They're committed.
oooh
I'll give it you for the pun :P
Creating history
terrible
go home
18:55
I did
@Elvisjames lö
> The biggest number you can store in a 32-bit number is 2^32
...
depends on the encoding
also, depending on context, that extra -1 really doesn't matter
@Puppy Well, ok.
@Columbo Classic off-by-one error. Maybe they did it on purpose.
18:59
@CatPlusPlus well erm... go back to work!!!
Xeo
Xeo
If you can choose your encoding, and don't have to cover everything from [0, max), you can have any number you like...
@Xeo Sure.
@Xeo I always use booleans to store either pi or phi.
@Columbo hardly, I can store 8 trillion in only 8 bits!
19:00
That is not the point. The statement was IMO not in any context that would allow for such stuff.
Xeo
Xeo
1 min ago, by Puppy
depends on the encoding
@Xeo oh right, I forget we care what he says :P
The context seems to be "number of values"
2^32 is correct there
Okay, so then he says that when we had 8-bit computers we could count up to 256
I mean, that is a general statement, clearly
Biggest number is not number of values
19:02
you're missing 0
2^32 - 1 is the maximum, but including 0 you get 2^32 values
We know
Thanks
I'm not talking to you.
Thanks.
@Rapptz Is it?
Tanks
No, thants were better
I'm writing an admin area
It's boring
> What do we do now that all 4,294,967,296 IP addresses have been given out?
19:03
@Rapptz Nope. "The biggest value you can store in an 8-bit number is 256." That is general, and in the context seems wrong to me. However, I might be missing something
Entertain me
Yeah you're missing the god damn context about IP addresses
It's even in the description and sort of in the title
@Columbo Wasn't that 255 actually?
@πάνταῥεῖ That's what I'm on about
19:04
Did anyone even watch that tubyoube
(I didn't)
@Rapptz Nonsense. The guy is referring to a video about pacman when saying that quote. Watch the goddamn video.
Anyway, I don't really care anymore.
@CatPlusPlus I dislike programming problems exposed on YT, that's not the right format. Same for tutorials. But kids can't read anymore nowadays :(
(Unsurprisingly this is boring as hell anyway)
Could've told ya that
I don't like Numberphile videos so
user1804599
19:07
I can store the number 257 in 8 bits.
user1804599
But not the number 0.
user1804599
Not 1 either.
So is Starships another Civ or what
@Rapptz I actually learned stuff on there, but also had to skip hours and hours of explanations of basic 8th grade math
I like trailers that give all the silly background plot details (that are very very very original) and no information about the gameplay
I'm excited about this game about a thing with other things
19:12
@Rapptz I like em very much. As entertainment.
user1804599
I'm hungry.
user1804599
I want a BLT without tomato.
user1804599
A BL.
user1804599
APL.
No idea what a BLT is, but can't you just order one?
Business idea: Have space suits and burritos delivered to customers. Call it "Monad on Wheels".
user1804599
19:23
@FredOverflow No.
user1804599
A BLT (Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato) is a type of bacon sandwich. The standard BLT is made up of five ingredients: bacon, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise, and bread. The BLT evolved from the tea sandwiches served before 1900 at a similar time to the club sandwich, although it is unclear when the name BLT became the norm. == Ingredients and preparation == While there are variations on the BLT, the essential ingredients are bacon, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise and bread. The quantity and quality of the ingredients are matters of personal preference. The bacon can be well cooked or tender, but as it "carries...
Ugh date form field as 3 selects
Fucking designers
I'm gonna make myself some spaghetti
user1804599
Does it allow February 31?
Probably, yes
@FredOverflow I'd fucking love mail web ordered Borritos
user1804599
19:32
3D-printed burritos.
Woo it's a handled case
any one fancy trying multiplayer don't starve?
Hey, that's me!
30
Q: Can we increase the contrast on the top users score values

EdChumApologies if this question has already been asked or discussed, I personally am not too bothered by most of the changes but agree that they could be improved but this one got me. If you view the Top users for a particular tag then the contrast is very poor for the score value next to the number o...

ooh, it's some extra dlc
19:41
@Columbo Along with one or two other people... :-)
@рытфолд What kind of country are you living in where you cannot order sandwiches?
@JerryCoffin Hehe. Actually I'm the top user now, and it pisses me off they took the screenshot at that time
@Columbo Top user of the last month (which means next to nothing).
:-)
user1804599
user1804599
lol
19:44
Business idea: Make a game about a succubus in the desert. Call it "Sand Witch".
@Columbo Was that polled for week range? ;)
@JerryCoffin As if
@FredOverflow It's been done..
@Columbo The one that (obviously) matters is the all-time list.
@JerryCoffin So why is it on the right then? The vast majority of SE users are reading from left to right ... ;) So IMO the left table is of greater importance.
You can't beat Jon Skeet (and that even rhymes) :)
19:47
so that's how it works!
@Columbo It's on the right because it's the right answer. They actually arrange it according to the way things work in French (where you have a "true" hand and a "false" hand).
@AlexM. He doesn't look like a theoretical physicist at all.
@JerryCoffin What can I say? lol
@FredOverflow he is one
in theory
as you can see
Theoretical physicists in theory! LOL
Even Leonard Hofstadter looks more credible.
Wait, he's a practical physicist, I should have said Sheldon Cooper
19:55
Ugh MySQL doesn't have median or mode
@πάνταῥεῖ not even sure he's trying to act credible
another line from him is "I do know what I'm doing, I just don't know what will happen after that"

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