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12:02
ok, I have to rest now.
@sehe love you too
you can store an awfully large number of days in seconds in a long
@edition kinda is
given how tiny a second is, you'd think otherwise
or so was my first impression
@AlexM. you surely mean int64_t
12:09
Magic of 2<<n ;)
Definately the solution when he wants the type passed to ParameterBasedFilter to be of the form TMsg<TParamPayload>. Otherwise, just use a regular template <typename T>. — JorenHeit 1 min ago
@BartekBanachewicz 2147483647 (2^31-1) or greater*
> Definately
> number of days in seconds
this I mean
12:10
@AlexM. that's not very much
For a moment I had interpreted something different.
2^63 - 1 is p cool
@BartekBanachewicz ~68 years
or double the bytes and get 230 billion years
which is 21x ~universe age
I am a bit curious why it was decided to use long for timestamps
and not ulong or something like long long
or ull
12:12
because people needed to save precious bytes
and thus inflicted pain on everyone
I hope 32-bit era will soon be over
well
on the bright side
if there will be a bug because of this
it will be at least 40 years from now!
so not my problem
treat 64 bits as byte and a lof of problems in computing disappear
@Griwes wtf
12:15
The Fox New bs stroke again
What a load of crap
people need to calm down with the muslim stuff, it just puts europe in unbalance
which leaves other countries like Russia able to do shit
Yesterday LRiO linked another crapy stuff from Fox News like "Birmingham, UK" => muslim city!
Srsly, WTF
eh people still using C++
and still failing on data ownership
If you don't want to care about ownership, don't use C++ for chrissake. GCed languages are equally fast.
And instead of reading/trying to understand RAII, weak references, returns and whatnot, you can actually write your game/app/whatever.
@edition what's the purpose of your "number convert" function
12:24
I think it's converting 1234 to one thousand two hundred and four
@thecoshman Hey. You specifically asked us to ping it to you in the launsch
@ÓlafurWaage the method looks somewhat cryptic
@BartekBanachewicz sure
@BartekBanachewicz he's learning
I like that it's a pure function and not a class or someshit
4
Q: Arrowized EDSL for Writing Lower Level Code

David HarrisonMost of the motivating examples that are normally provided for Arrows are showing how more complex computational systems can be built on top of Hask (e.g. Kleisli categories for effects, Arrowized FRP etc.) Has there been any work done on using Arrows to write lower level code (e.g. Assembly, Jav...

ZOMG
read the answer
Xeo
Xeo
> low level virtual machine
12:29
oh god
Xeo
Xeo
That's not what LLVM stands for anymore :v
It's just 4 letters without any more meaning to them now, IIRC
it should stand for Lawesome Lfucking Vdragon Mlogo
5
although technically it's a wyvern
because it only has one pair of legs
#fantasysnob
that being said, eat that meta whiners on haskell community
12:42
@AlexM. That's clearly French.
> The English word "dragon" derives from Greek δράκων (drákōn), "dragon
Impressive.
Who would've thought
Fuck. I'm lost on What if xkcd.
TIL one of my coworkers can't read.
C++14 was ratified in August last year, right?
Xeo
Xeo
@rubenvb Scrub. Didn't read it from the start?
12:48
:'( Ok, sorry for ur eyees :) — Aurélien Brahic 1 min ago
:/
-1
A: C++ #define can't use operator << from std

Stephane RollandI think the append operator # of the C/C++ preprocessors should do the trick #define MY_OUTPUT(name) "My name is " # name const char* pcName = "Test"; MY_OUTPUT(pcName) would return: My name is Test

ugh fucking mutability
"someone somewhere modifies that variable"
and good luck debugging
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is it a temporary thing? Eyesight? Dyslexia ginormia? Illiterate? Comprehension fail?
@CatPlusPlus I am adding a class that's dead similar to an existing one
@BartekBanachewicz hardware bp
@BartekBanachewicz You bastard. DRY!
12:58
so I'm tracking lifetime of the original
well not really a class
@BartekBanachewicz at least you know what variable, it's fun when someone changes some state and then later on it crashes and you have to find who changes it and under what conditions
the poitn is that the original is changed in shitload of places
nice
@BartekBanachewicz so, you create tests, do impact analysis, slowly refactor and retest every step of the way. Otherwise: you swallow everything that you have coming
@sehe Literally illiterate.
Really. That's somehow impressive
I think, that it is precise. — Earlybite 56 mins ago
We have ourselves a veritable Descartes from Indian descent
13:03
What is his job?
his/her
@R.MartinhoFernandes can (s)he write?
he/she
HAPPY NOW sehe :P
(s(e))he
@sehe ha ha ha
13:03
0
Q: Can a namespace be used as an Object Template in C++?

user2690449I know in c++, struct can be used as an object template, and I know that class can be used as an object template. Can namespace be used as an Object Template?

@AndyProwl No, he can't.
what o.o
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you use him for brain experiments?
inb4 bad design is going to be bad regardless of mutability
He's a designer.
Mechanically, not artistically.
13:05
@BartekBanachewicz it's not a joke. It's life
you can, I think a found an example, but I advise again it — Irrational Person 35 secs ago
WHAT
What is wrong with people today.
hollywood movie industry has equated geniuses to weirdos: a beautiful mind, the imitation game, the social network
@R.MartinhoFernandes I find this puzzling in so many ways I don't even know what questions to ask first
Why the downvote? The question has not been asked before. — user2690449 10 secs ago
@Griwes /n i/nst i/ shirley
13:06
how did he learn the stuff? how could he pass exams?
@AndyProwl I didn't realise this for months.
^ established by fair MD5 of the post markdown source — sehe 7 secs ago
@AndyProwl what makes you assume he "must" have?
@sehe Thanks. That doesn't make the comment any less WTFish. I know what it was meant to mean; the WTF is "how can you get the spelling of those so wrong?"
by being irresponsibly reckless
@sehe you don't know his/her/zis/zer/cis/cer's pronoun
13:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait you actually were for real about that?
@sehe how does one become a mechanical designer without going to any school nor reading any book by themselves? How do you even learn to use a computer without being able to read?
(which excludes the possibility he gathered the necessary information himself on the internet or something)
@ÓlafurWaage Indeed I do not
@AndyProwl Who mentioned computers
> mechanical designer
This means craftsmanship, tooling, material knowledge in my book
@BartekBanachewicz Yes.
@sehe He uses computers.
@sehe Well, none of our mechanical designers would be able to do their job (let alone get it) without using a computer. I guess it depends on what he has to design, although knowing a bit about robot's domain, I doubt it's simple stuff that can be handled without a computer
Well. That is interesting
13:11
@AndyProwl That's his greatest weakness.
@R.MartinhoFernandes But how did he learn the stuff?
no books, no school
@AndyProwl I know a bit about very talented micro engineer I know. And yes he uses computers extensively, but the real talent is his affinity with the physical tools, the craft so to say
@R.MartinhoFernandes how?
Dunno. He can read a bit, but it's like, 20 wpm.
Like a six year old.
Is he not trolling you?
13:12
@BartekBanachewicz He knows where the menus are.
well that's a bit different from not reading at all
Xeo
Xeo
Did he try to properly learn to read?
@BartekBanachewicz It's pretty useless. It takes hours to read a simple tutorial on the Internet.
@AndyProwl Nah.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it takes me days sometimes to understand tutorials.
Fascinating
13:14
the reading part isn't the bottleneck
@Xeo He spent most of his life as a refugee, so he didn't have easy access to schools.
well, yeah.
@BartekBanachewicz You're underestimating that.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What about now?
13:15
@sehe lol'ed
@BartekBanachewicz Which you can re-read several times over in a few minutes.
Poor guy
Try reading a tutorial in some unknown language
Xeo
Xeo
It's sad when someone isn't able to enjoy books.
It's awesome he manages to be useful without being able to read or write
13:15
If it takes you hours, re-reading is just unthinkable.
@Xeo audiobooks are quite common these days
I can not read ... German, or Japanese or Egyptian
does that make me dumb?
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Yeah... I have that fun with Japanese when trying to read untranslated stuff.
I mean, I understand some of it, but damn it takes so long
And since most of your effort goes into parsing, actually understanding what you read might take even longer
@Xeo How do you do that? He knows how reading works, but he lacks a lot of practice, and the brain of a six year old.
13:18
Practice is keyword
It's a matter of practice, not knowledge. You can't shortcut it.
Xeo
Xeo
Well, does he make an effort to practice, is my question
Argh I fucking hate when I forget what I was about to do
Xeo
Xeo
You were about to breathe
you just saved his life
Xeo
Xeo
13:19
Well done, me.
Jesus Trello cards with 600 checklist items are not a good way to organise project
@Xeo That I dunno.
Also because they kill the browser
But now this explains why he had a tendency to come over to people's desks and talk to them instead of just replying to e-mails.
Plus an opportunity to slack off
13:22
@R.MartinhoFernandes He must have an incredible memory
I should start doing that
He also has some form of dyslexia so I can imagine how frustrating it must be.
Since he cannot write things down he must remember them constantly
Why the fuuuuuck do I get tickets assigned about things I had nothing to do with
yeaah, vending machine got stuck, got 2 x coke
Xeo
Xeo
13:26
ew coke
@Xeo Club Mate ftw :P
Xeo
Xeo
Ew
That stuff is even nastier
I knew you'd say that.
Xeo
Xeo
I don't get how the fuck one could possibly enjoy drinking that
13:27
what do you drink, water
@Xeo Well, you like tomatoes.
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. Mainly, yes
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wanna say "touché", but at the same time... no.
do you eat tomatoes after picking them
some people whom I took to my garden started eating tomatoes like apples
I was like what the fuck
Xeo
Xeo
I have no problems eating raw tomatoes, yes.
at least cook them somehow
or salt them or slice them at least
Xeo
Xeo
13:28
they're tasty
especially with mozzarella
Cooking tomatoes what
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. Tomatoes are better in one regard: You can eat the whole thing!
You can eat whole apples too.
Almost whole really
Xeo
Xeo
13:30
They are worse in another regard though: Messy (due to juices)
My grandma had a tree that grew apples you could eat in a single bite.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cool
user1804599
Parser generators are great.
@AlexM. That's... perfectly normal?
> If S is a subtype of T, any term of type S can be safely used in a context where a term of type T is expected
this is extremely counterintuitive
13:33
Tomatoes are great
@BartekBanachewicz Uh why?
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz wat
It's substitution principle
I am constantly confused by the OOP notions
can't get the idea out of my head
user1804599
T contains all values of type S.
user1804599
It's just like subsets.
13:34
T is the base model, S is the deluxe edition
-1
Q: Can a namespace be used as an Object Template in C++?

user2690449I know in c++, struct can be used as an object template, and I know that class can be used as an object template. Can namespace be used as an Object Template? To be clear; MyClass myclass; myclass.memberFunction(); MyStruct mystruct; mystruct.memberFunction(); Can you do something along the...

honestly, how does this crap get upvotes????????????????????????????????????
I upvoted just for you
user1804599
@E_net4 no
user1804599
The other way around.
@рытфолд Right, my mistake.
user1804599
13:35
for all x in S, x is in T
@BartekBanachewicz What idea
@IrrationalPerson The error is shown in the photo :) — user3820995 7 secs ago
For a moment I read it as T < S.
@BartekBanachewicz I don't find that counterintuitive per se, but I do find some of its corollaries somewhat counterintuitive (e.g. a modifiable square cannot derive from a modifiable rectangle)
> and the links exist 5 years ago
13:37
(inb4 screw mutability)
Oh, great. I'll travel back to 5 years ago to get them.
user1804599
Screw mutability.
What does mutability have to with this
MUTATE ALL THE OBJECTS!
If you can mutate the object in a way that violates the invariants, then your interface is broken
user1804599
13:37
You cannot make square a subtype of rectangle if rectangle's width and height can be mutated independently.
@AndyProwl You just have a wrong idea (dare I say intuition?) of geometric shapes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes COME ON TARS
I blame your math education :P
user1804599
Though it's a silly example anyway.
Also shape examples are dumb
13:38
@AndyProwl screw mutability
user1804599
I represent rectangular shapes as ratios.
@CatPlusPlus itsacaranalogy.gif
user1804599
And squares as unit, since all squares have ths ame sahape.
@CatPlusPlus nevermind. I'll sort it out in my head
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think so. In mathematics, a square is a rectangle, because those are immutable things (they are "values", not objects). If it's objects we are talking about, then the values they hold can change. Hence, a mutable "square" class cannot derive from a mutable "rectangle" class.
@CatPlusPlus Which was my point, pretty much
13:40
@AndyProwl The point is that there's no such thing as a mutable square.
(of course by "mutable" I'm assuming "allowing to mutate the width and height of a rectange)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes. But there is such thing as a mutable square.
You can't change the value of 3.
@Borgleader re-lol'ed now :)
Indeed. What I'm talking about is objects, not values
13:41
but you can switch 3 oranges with 3 apples
objects are values
3 isn't a square.
objects hold values
@chmod711telkitty doesn't change the quantity
13:41
graaaaaawrgh to hell with oop and this nonsense
but ... they are ... totally different ...
s/oop and //
it failed.
smalltalk failed.
java failed.
let's get over it already.
I don't think it's nonsense
C++ has OOP too. :P
13:42
@E_net4 so what?
@BartekBanachewicz It appeared that you were enumerating object oriented programming languages. :P
@E_net4 no? I enumerated exactly two.
Bah, nevertheless..
But I get you now.
TBH, OOP is intuitive. It's much easier to relate to the real world.
13:45
> Geometry as a branch of mathematics has such objects as hexagons, points, lines, triangles, circles, spheres, polyhedra, topological spaces and manifolds.
Er.
@E_net4 What about RWOP, then?
@E_net4 my point is that it's a misconception from the 80s/90s
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I haven't expressed myself very clearly indeed
13:49
@BartekBanachewicz robopoop
lol
ITS NOT GREAT but mutable doesn't mean you can't verify invariants
@CatPlusPlus that's a refused bequest
befused request
a refused bequest
13:50
defused request
Yeah, I also failed to find what you meant with RWOP.
Morning
confused request?
befused dequest
@Jefffrey it's nearly 3pm
13:51
clients of rectangle have to know that setting the height and width may fail
even though the invariant of a rectangle itself does not place any restriction
bemused nequest
that does not make a lot of sense
> 4 year old afraid of swimming parenting.stackexchange.com/questions/18302/…
I'm 21 yo and also afraid of swimming
@AndyProwl what
the kid is pretty normal IMHO
13:51
@CatPlusPlus Doesn't work if you use "this = (old_width, new_height)" as postconditions of rectangle::set_height.
You can make the hierarchy better and you can make it a part of the contract
@BartekBanachewicz I'm referring to Cat's example
how can setting a width of rectangle fail?
@AndyProwl It doesn't fail there.
@CatPlusPlus That contract would not make a lot of sense
13:52
Oh, wait, set_size.
@AndyProwl I missed that.
Sure it would
@R.MartinhoFernandes It doesn't throw an exception?
@BartekBanachewicz Wait, you changed the name of Glisha to Hate?
This is a hierarchy of shapes, shape has a size, shape might restrict what sizes it accepts
@Jefffrey yes. Didn't we talk about it already?
13:53
No, it wouldn't. A rectangle is something whose width and height can be set independently. If they cannot, it's something else than a rectangle
If it's mentioned in the docs, it's all right (a.k.a. Java syndrome)
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe dunno.
@AndyProwl lolwat
@AndyProwl No, a rectangle is something that has width and height
Everything else is API details
@Jefffrey I like Hate more. Apart from similarity to Love, has more ring to it than "Glisha"
13:53
It's a quad with right angles.
more zing and pop, so to say
a rectangle with a relationship between w and h is a rectangle with a relationship between w and h
but still a rectangle
@BartekBanachewicz Github doesn't detect Haskell as the main language.
@Jefffrey because we're still on develop
In Euclidean plane geometry, a rectangle is any quadrilateral with four right angles. It can also be defined as an equiangular quadrilateral, since equiangular means that all of its angles are equal (360°/4 = 90°). It can also be defined as a parallelogram containing a right angle. A rectangle with four sides of equal length is a square. The term oblong is occasionally used to refer to a non-square rectangle. A rectangle with vertices ABCD would be denoted as ABCD. The word rectangle comes from the Latin rectangulus, which is a combination of rectus (right) and angulus (angle). A so-called crossed...
13:54
And a sqaure is a rectangle that has width and height which are the same
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah.
@CatPlusPlus And those can be set to anything other than 0.
(Or even 0 if you are willing to accept degenerate rectangles)
@Jefffrey Also Ha-skell and Ha-te
That doesn't mean you can't have an interface contract that says the sizes you requested might be rejected by concrete subclass
@Griwes not sure what's funny in there
Xeo
Xeo
13:54
@BartekBanachewicz Hashell
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but that sucks.
Hask- hell
@sehe ffs why does no one point out these mistakes?
@Xeo no that's genderized
Xeo
Xeo
HasHell
4
13:55
Shape hierarchies suck, but that's beside the point
@CatPlusPlus saying to a client "here's a rectangle: feel free to set its height or width independently, but be aware that these operations may fail for reasons you won't ever be able to predict, and that won't make sense if you think of this object has something that represents a 'rectangle'"
@AndyProwl "Width and height can be set independently" is not a property of a rectangle, lol.
@AndyProwl That reminds me how Java deals with unmodifiable collections. Ridiculous indeed.
@BartekBanachewicz You are very good with names :P
"ping me it" is weird.
13:56
It's a contract you think could potentially make sense.
But it's not inherent to rectangles. lol
It's an interesting case to showcase cases, though.
@R.MartinhoFernandes "ping" is a verb :P
@AndyProwl "Independently" doesn't enter the equation, everyone knows that squares exist and that they're restricted rectangles
@Jefffrey anyway I used RankNTypes to separate inner lib state and I just have one tiny instnance ambiguity to solve. OR I could go back to it and expose Glisha as hoisted part of userstate, where the other is actual library state. Have to decide yet
@Griwes Are you talking about the mathematical abstract object, or the rectangle class that holds values representing mathematical abstract objects?
13:56
Even without a generic shape contract the restriction makes sense
"post me the word" -> "post me it" -> "ping me it"
@AndyProwl either
You invented a contract.
@CatPlusPlus No, clients don't know about the existence of square. Clients only know about rectangle
And suddenly all hierarchies must follow that contract?
No, clients know about subclassable rectangle
13:57
@R.MartinhoFernandes <innocent face>
Sure you can make a rectangle that doesn't have that contract and subclassing it breaks clients
Yes, and if you let subclasses strengthen your preconditions, you might has well not have a base class.
But it doesn't fucking have to be that is my point
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's why I'm hoisting the precondition to the superclass
@BartekBanachewicz Can't get into Glisha before the 18th (in 3 days). I have to work on a uni project in Java and when I'm not working on that I'm drinking as much as I can so that nightmares don't keep me awake during the night.
@CatPlusPlus And his point is that that contract is terrible.
13:58
^
@CatPlusPlus Might as well not have it, then. rectangle& cannot be safely used in any way that square& couldn't.
Or the other way around.
@thecoshman You ♩ post me ♪ the word ♬
Anyway, bye.
The whole shape hierarchy is terrible
@Jefffrey We can use proper name already, to confuse people even more. Anyway, cool, I broke half of the project yesterday anyway so I ahve to clean it up
@Jefffrey see you
13:59
The shape hierarchy is just an example
The problem is conceptual
I'd go for Cat's idea of not having a shape hierarchy at all. :/
If you take a rectangle& argument, you now have to treat it as a square& anyway. That's a terrible contract.

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