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user1804599
08:00
Hello.
Yellow!
Cheese
@thecoshman I got some, wanna try shady look and hoodie on
Thanks guys. You made me feel better about wasting so much time on that answer :)
@sehe I love how the std::uninitialized_fill()solution will act exactly like his nested for loops but "booh ooh this is not applicable"
08:10
Does someone maybe know if a "smart" automated tool exists for executing repeated steps? Let me explain: i.imgur.com/whEZ8bX.png (left: add L_<translation entry name>, middle: add { L_<translation entry name>, "actual translation for language"},, right: Change "actual translation for language" to L_<translation entry name>) ? :$
user1804599
Use AWK.
One question.. Learning/curve of AWK (how long avg.?) vs. doing this for 3,000 string entries manually?
Also, at my current location I'm stuck on Windows :P
user1804599
lol Windows
lol indeed
user1804599
@sehe wasda
Xeo
Xeo
08:23
Welp, guess I forgot to turn off my PC yesterday
user1804599
@Xeo Nice, no need to boot up now.
user1804599
Saves a lot of time!
Xeo
Xeo
I usually boot up from standby or hibernate anyways
user1804599
I count those as "turned on."
user1804599
What's the difference between standby and hibernate?
user1804599
08:25
Does hibernate write RAM to disk and standby not?
Xeo
Xeo
former holds everything in RAM and keeps that powered, latter saves RAM to disk
user1804599
OK.
user1804599
Have NVRAM :P
Xeo
Xeo
my choice between standby and hibernate is usually "does it make the power button blink annoyingly?"
which standby on my old home PC did
so I always just put it in hibernate
my new PC doesn't do that, so I put it in standby
@sehe shame there is no way for community to overrule what the right answer is
user1804599
08:28
I just turn around my computer so the standby indicator faces away from me.
user1804599
It goes to hibernate when it runs out of battery. I never hibernate it manually.
if i am asked - "what is the speed of a processor is measured in?"
and i answer "clocks per sec"
am i correct ?
clocks per second stopped being accurate years ago due to cool new technology
@PTwr ok , but if the one who asked me says - "No, the correct ans is Gigahertz"
he is total bananas right?
user1804599
Oh cool, JVM GC finds duplicate strings and makes them point to the same memory.
08:41
@рытфолд That could lead to some problems
user1804599
Why?
user1804599
It makes no semantic difference at all and saves a shitload of memory.
@рытфолд if you change one str, would'nt it also change the others as well
user1804599
Java strings are immutable.
@AbhishekGupta strings are cloned on operations when needed (same in .NET)
so a=a+"a" trashes your memory with old string and new string
08:43
if the optimizer sucks.. which I doubt
I am not sure about Java, but in .NET it is not optimized, instead StringBuilder usage is advised (single stream instead of copies)
user1804599
String builders do copy.
user1804599
And there is no reason for using string builders if you only concatenate two strings.
user1804599
It's only useful when you concatenate at least three strings.
@рытфолд I made test yesterday, concatenate wins up to 10 strings, for more Builder is faster
(in .NET)
08:46
@рытфолд ouch , i more step away from java
user1804599
Everything should be immutable. That includes strings.
@Rerito it only achieves the same /because/ misguided placement new (and yes, it's very very ironic that the "perceived" (misconceived) notion of placement-new performance completely obscured the obvious braindeadness of a triple nested loop to him)
In fairness, my original answer was like option 3 here. And his answer was option 4
This is broken in principle, useless at best. You assume trivially destructible octreenodes (which isn't given nor checked). If it's not, it's incorrect. Next up, compare OPTION 3 vs. 4 of this program in the generated code: option 3 vs. option 4. It's the same! — sehe yesterday
@рытфолд you mean like that weird int list in Java?
user1804599
Which one?
Wait.. so .net has no optimizations at all? (surely none if it can't even optimize such basic operations?!!)
user1804599
08:48
I don't know Java.
user1804599
@Gizmo .NET of course has many optimisations.
@рытфолд Rust
user1804599
Just like Java.
user1804599
@sehe ja maar waarom stuurde jij dat naarmij en wat houdt het in
@AbhishekGupta immutability is good
08:49
ik wil ook mee doen met de nl talk :P
@рытфолд Ik dacht jij vinden leuwk
user1804599
You don't have to.
user1804599
We'll continue in English.
user1804599
@sehe No. I don't like Rust.
Rust roest
08:49
rust is probably not hipster enough
@Gizmo by having immutable strings you need to wait for GC to clean up the mess after operations, and GC usually launches after method ends, so if you build html page in solid loop you will run out of memory pretty soon
@BartekBanachewicz But why ? , i think it reduces efficiency
@AbhishekGupta whose efficiency?
@PTwr damn. no words.
@BartekBanachewicz the program
user1804599
08:50
@AbhishekGupta It doesn't. On the contrary. It increases efficiency of the developers.
@AbhishekGupta what about the programmer?
user1804599
Because immutable data structures are much easier to work with.
@BartekBanachewicz i don't know, that can be opinion based, i guess. He might not love it coming from C++, might he?
@Gizmo thats why StringBuilder/Streams exist
@PTwr I can imagine that is indeed the reason hehe
08:52
@AbhishekGupta that doesn't matter whether someone loves it or not. Preconceived ideas can be changed. And if argument to use a mutable data structures is program efficiency without even knowing the program, you're prematurely optimizing
@AbhishekGupta It does. In some cases (generating a lot of runtime instances). However, in general the vastly improved ability of the compiler to optimize at compiletime makes up for it. And all relevant languages enable mutability if you need to manually optimize for cases where you have additional information
> stream sexist
user1804599
> What happens when the guess is wrong and the array gets full? There are two strategies. In the previous version of the framework, the string builder reallocated and copied the array when it got full, and doubled its size. In the new implementation, the string builder maintains a linked list of relatively small arrays, and appends a new array onto the end of the list when the old one gets full.
user1804599
08:54
hehe nice
I can't seem to find any explaination about Console IO... run program.exe that prints a few K lines, and run program.exe > out.txt, and the > out.txt version will be like 100x faster o.o =.=
(and no I'm to poor to own a SSD, so it's not that, still HDD)
OK, I've decided to be 'British' today. I'm going down to beach for a swim, then to bar to get ratted on large beers. After annoying staff and customers, I'll pass out on the sand and get burnt. By that time, I'll be ready for tonite's session in the sports.bar. Can't get any more Brit than that.
@MartinJames only clouds and rain here.
user1804599
Scala has a similar builder type for linked list with O(1) append, whereas linked lists normally only have O(1) prepend.
user1804599
Builders are very nice.
08:56
good morning
user1804599
@Gizmo that's because terminals are slow and HDDs are fast.
@sehe why c++ don't have immutable strings? , if i define an immutable string lib, i guess i would need to the optimizations as well right? , the c++ compiler won't help me there? , also what does the compiler try to do when i simple use const std::string ?
user1804599
You're probably better off with COW.
COW?
nvm, googled it
@рытфолд still wondering what the heck is going on inside the terminal
user1804599
09:00
@Gizmo text rendering, writing to screen, maybe word wrapping.
user1804599
All sorts of GUI stuff.
@рытфолд Really? Like AAA Games don't do that x100000 in 60 FPS / s XD
@AbhishekGupta of course it does. C++ has no preference either way. Have std::shared_ptr<const std::string> and BOOM. GC immutable strings
user1804599
And GUI stuff is typically not optimised much since it's fast enough if it's faster than the user.
user1804599
And users are very slow.
09:04
@Gizmo Fonts are very heavy to draw, most games optimize it by using bitmap fonts. Slapping rectangle on scene, even with effects and transparency, is faster than drawing from font: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Outlines
Not even remotely. Your original answer assigned pointers in an array to objects that could be anywhere on the heap. Mine assigns them in a contiguous group. You can't really give a totally different answer, then go raging in the comments that the answer you meant but didn't write is more efficient, and only after I replied with regards to your original answer! The new points in your "update" are perfectly valid but it's ridiculous to get angry at me for responding to what you originally wrote before you appended those later, and then act as if those were there all along. — Riot 4 mins ago
PLEASE GOD. Kill me now
@Riot No my original answer did nothing of the sort (it should be immediately clear for any C++ programmer since I did never use any heap allocation). You just don't know how misguided your reasoning is here. The one class that governs the locality of the backing storage is multi_array in this respect. It wouldn't be an array if the storage wasn't contiguous. — sehe 23 secs ago
user1804599
@sehe Do you need a riot shield?
Badum tsss
Sigh. Probably. Or an uzi. Really. Damn. How can one be so sloppy /yet/ so adamant
@рытфолд Hahahahahaha, Head Shot.
user1804599
09:07
Imagine a polar bear with a riot shield and an uzi.
And the facepalming bear could not have been more accurate haha
@sehe huh, thanks .. never knew that
user1804599
That's awesome.
09:10
I just signed a wrong work contract by accident
user1804599
fool
user1804599
> if one of the arguments is ±∞, hypot returns +∞ even if the other argument is NaN
user1804599
lolwot
@Gizmo actually they don't
Xeo
Xeo
@рытфолд Isn't that just... 2D distance from 0? Interesting that the standard has that
09:11
@рытфолд yeah fucking genius wow
genious*
@рытфолд The sum was bigger than it should be.
I signed it and only then noticed it's too big.
@рытфолд what a bunch of wank
@рытфолд numerical calculations ain't exactly simple and easy
user1804599
09:13
Good thing I don't have to implement them!
@BartekBanachewicz maybe the numbers are a bit off but believe it or not, a freaking 50 MB executable (probably with high optimizations, and not counting all the dynamic libraries) runs very fast, and yet a console can't manage to get a reasonable throughput for applications that humans don't use.
@Gizmo what does the size of binary have to do with anything?
@Gizmo Consoles are only for humans. Saying that they don't use them is nonsense.
user1804599
> /dev/null
@рытфолд remember that linux based consoles don't suffer that much from the slowdowns, I'm talking about windows here
so it would be > NUL :P
user1804599
It depends completely on the terminal emulator.
09:15
@Gizmo [citation-needed]
@BartekBanachewicz your "citation" is 1) boot up any windows 2) boot up any linux distro 3) run the same program that outputs hell of a lot to the console :)
everyone can agree with this
@Gizmo I can provide you with a linux distro that does Sleep(1000) between every byte written to the console.
@BartekBanachewicz Indeed you can, eh.
Either way, it's hardly sensible to compare that
09:17
if there would be comparable windows "distro", it would have a Sleep(1000) between each written bit
@рытфолд It is
@Gizmo inb4 gagging us with a Tux pillow
sigh
@Riot Okay. Fair enough. I can see this misinterpretation. I prefer to discuss actual programs (which is also why I care to provide live demos). The heap allocation argument doesn't make much sense to me because multi_array by definition uses heap allocation (or whatever your allocator uses). And you can even heap_world = new world(...) to have literally everything related on the heap. (Introducing indirections invariably makes the representation less efficient. But I know it can be beneficial depending on use cases). Cheers! — sehe 1 min ago
And there we have the end. Goodbye sucker
I'm sighing more often these days
09:18
Sighing is the hallmark of experienced software engineers
4
user1804599
@sehe Maybe we should send him a letter.
Glitter! (oh, I missed the punny reference)
@sehe No it's not, I'm also doing it
@Rerito Convincing argument, bud.
You could start by asking for advice in chat, @Zach — Shog9 ♦ 16 hours ago
it's official. Haskell room exists exists :3
09:20
And it's being advertised as a Q&A site.
Really like the language.
user1804599
What a horrible username.
> , Poland
@sehe :D
user1804599
@ÓlafurWaage eww don't subclass Thread
09:21
@рытфолд look who's talking
thatsthejoke.png
@BartekBanachewicz yeah get your friends in order!
Hobbies:
history, science-fiction and fantasy, languages, backpacking, orienteering, geocaching

what kinda hobby is backpacking?
@рытфолд Just make a task then? or?
@AbhishekGupta Traveling (generally afoot) with a backpack
user1804599
09:22
Just make run a function outside of any class, make m_server and m_config local variables, and in main do new Thread(run).start();.
@рытфолд Ahh neat.
user1804599
Also you can use auto like in C++.
> Primary occupation: Java+Javascript Developer.
> Programming Languages: Java, Javascript, PHP
@рытфолд I knew about that, using it in a few places.
user1804599
OK.
09:23
@рытфолд Just like the technologies he uses :D
@рытфолд Noting this down, good plan.
@Griwes I saw a job offer recently in our university
> Required Technology: Java (Cake, Beans, REST) / PHP (Symphony, Javascript)
> PHP (Javascript)
@BartekBanachewicz Wait to see when you'll get called by headhunters for consulting companies :D
09:40
@thecoshman Iceland!
@ÓlafurWaage tar
@thecoshman <3
this 'ping me a message' thing really helps cut down the crap :D
ooh I'm being dragooned into device programming. which means I now get to design the entire API since I'll be coding both ends. w00t
embedded C though :(
har har
09:44
@LightnessRacesinOrbit good practice
somebody point me to Lounge<C> pls
@LightnessRacesinOrbit be careful, they're even meaner there
@LightnessRacesinOrbit and its called malloc(sizeof(C));
@ÓlafurWaage ewwww!
and sneaky bit manipulation with defines comming out of nowhere
@ÓlafurWaage :)
@ÓlafurWaage not possible
09:46
@LightnessRacesinOrbit @Jefffrey @tonythelion @BartekBanachewicz @R.MartinhoFernandes @MartinJames @Ell @Puppy @sbi - Mind filling out the second attempt at the poll.
second attempt what
and why didn't you ask me
wtf
am i ununinvited to the unconference
uncouth unthecoshman
@thecoshman REALLY. NOPE.
sehe's starred "sighing" quote is now going on our BZ quips list apparently. not sure how to attribute it
@thecoshman: squiddlydoodlefluffer
What is really this Unconference ?
09:52
An excuse to get drunk in a different city and to yell at cat
@LightnessRacesinOrbit don't
Xeo
Xeo
@AbhishekGupta Not a conference.
@AbhishekGupta getting drunk and playing games, give or take
09:56
I have written a basic number to speech engine, using the Windows API in C++, but I am too shy/ concerned of criticisms when publicly posting my work to a repository.
@edition your code sucks.
Now, with that out the way, there's nothing to fear!
@edition that's understandable. But the criticism you get today is the one you will no longer get tomorrow.
assuming you improve, that is
@edition post it on codereview.se
So should I post it onto github?
09:58
cue all = fold (&&) //cc @Xeo
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz no, that's and
all p = and . map p
@edition Yes
@edition I see no reason why you shouldn't. Github makes it easy for people to comment on your code and propose potential changes. And if you ultimately care for your code quality, the sooner you show it to people the better.
Xeo
Xeo
You suck.
09:59
who doesn't
fucking confusing names.
@edition Just say thank you, assess the critisism and change it if you feel its correct, then move to the next one.
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz not really

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