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3:00 PM
@Ell NVidia, Intel and AMD put more effort and more people into windows support than linux support
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz have you evidence for this? I agree that this used to be the case
 
How often is it normal to hear a high-pitched whistle within your ear?
 
@VáclavZeman I do. And the keys are (a) none of that is required (b) all of the stuff I ended up caring about is in dotfiles/ /etc and I version these since ~2004 and have not had the need to painstakingly configure anything. This includes all mail MUAs (12+ accounts), the MTA/Webservers and backups.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I find the nvidea control panel on linux far superior to windows. it gives me all the options relating to my card in a easy to navigate gui.
 
Ell
but recent gpus are well supported
 
3:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes depends
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get that sometimes. It passes after ~30 secs.
 
@Ell nothing much except personal experience from working on GPUs at Intel and benchmark results
stuff like tailoring drivers for particular games and software
etc. etc.
 
Ell
man all my hens are dying
where's tellkitty when you need her?
 
@thecoshman it's changing a lot admittedly
but until and unless people actually start using linux for gaming, the profits are not worth the effort
 
@Ell Why? Hens don't need food.
 
3:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I give Valve a lot of credit for that
 
@sehe All power-level users were Notepad-level users once. I'm at point where I would like to learn more vim, yet, I'm not motivated, because the efficiency investment will return in some very unspecified point in the future. If the user interface was good, it would have very slight boost of efficiency at the beginning, and it would give more and more while learning. (that's the modern approach to UI)
 
they're trying hard and I wish that Steam OS kicks off
 
@thecoshman On what?
I'm thinking of going to the doctor. I.e. not.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure. it just says "The Stray Hen (tame) has been found dead"
maybe something ate them
 
but I don't see that happening in the next few years
 
3:03 PM
@Ell Could be old age.
 
they simply have too much gap to windows
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've had that whistling thing all my life. It only happens occasionally. It never gets any better or worse, so..
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes listening to loud stuff recently?
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I hope it succeeds
 
Ell
3:04 PM
I tried in home streaming the other day and was extremely pleasantly surprised
 
I've noticed it a few months back, anyway.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not so sure to be honest
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Under a lot of stress recently?
 
@Ell hope is pretty much everything you can have there
and patience.
 
Ell
You can help them succeed, though
 
3:04 PM
In the meantime, I'm going to continue using Windows and waiting.
 
Ell
submitting bug reports etc, it's open source after all
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ask quack at your next, scheduled accidental injury.
 
@Ell Did you miss my posts about being tired with tinkering?
 
@milleniumbug True, I guess. I'm not sure that starting the curve on a different angle doesn't change the target level (negatively/positively). It'd be interesting. However, there (designing/implenting the "ideal" editor of the future) is an effort investment trade-off that is far far more accute than the one for you :)
 
steam usage is up to about 1.16% now it seems... so it's getting there :P
 
Ell
3:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You don't want them to succeed that much then? :P
 
@Ell there are way better places to allocate my time than this
 
Mac is another 3.46%
 
@Ell I wish them all the best, but I'm not going to put my effort either.
 
^^ what Bartek says.
 
If I were to contribute seriously to any OSS project, I'd contribute to GHC :P
 
3:06 PM
@Ell steam? or steam OS?
 
@BartekBanachewicz How so? If you mean that they accidentally vendor-locked in, wokay. There's not many essential features missing
(in fact, Windows is missin many, like, a performant FS)
 
Ell
> The Wereshrew Stathra Eranstrid has come! A large shrew twisted into humanoid form. It is crazed for blood and flesh. Its eyes glow scarlet. Its dark brown hair is patchy. Now you will know why you fear the night.
Uh oh.
 
user1804599
mwuhahahahaha
 
@sehe they apparently think otherwise, considering it's still in raw beta
 
user1804599
class List() { } class Cons(hd, tl) <: List { } object Nil <: List { } compiles bitches.
 
Ell
3:08 PM
The only thing stopping it succeeding is the number of games
and that is on the increase
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh give over, 'beta' means nothing these days.
 
@thecoshman it means the software is still unstable, has known critical or major bugs, and isn't guaranteed to function correctly
 
@Ell sadly so. They could really do wit looking towards getting some sort of wine like system integrated so they can offer better support for other games.
 
Ell
it killed a load of my children then transformed into a human
 
3:10 PM
And Steam OS isn't even available for download on the official site
 
@BartekBanachewicz not really. plenty of 'solid' software is still beta, plenty of shit is 'released'
 
@Ell It's a were shrew.
KILL IT while you can.
Or at least contain it.
 
@thecoshman "solid" doesn't conflict with what I wrote
 
Trap it in some safe room.
 
@BartekBanachewicz haha. You purposely didn't read the whole message? The first part is relevant. And "essential features" didn't refer to Steam features!
 
Ell
3:11 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no idea how :P
 
if someone releases crappy software, they're crappy devs
 
I agree that beta should mean something, but it simple doesn't any more.
 
Ell
I can't see it anywhere either
 
@thecoshman it only doesn't if you're a terrible software developer
 
@BartekBanachewicz Apparently, Steam have crappy devs too then (surprise)
 
3:12 PM
breaking news: people working at gamedev are terrible devs
wait, I work at gamedev too.
shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what does this refer to? "it"? "doesn't" what?
 
@BartekBanachewicz no... it has lost meaning.
 
@thecoshman ditto
people keep a lot of things in "beta" because adding functionality is more important than fixing bugs for them
how many spaceships do you think leave earth with beta software?
 
and to be fair, there's not much shit where stuff has to be truly fault free.
For the most part, as long as it's not falling over all the time it's fine. Sure crashes are annoying, but oh no, I have to restart my spread sheet.
 
or you can just write software that has less bugs
but we're derailing again so I'll stop there.
 
3:16 PM
@BartekBanachewicz are we?
didn't realise we were railed
|turning left|
 
yeah. next up: bad business practices, writing correct code, haskell
 
that's coming up in ten minutes, if we stick to schedule
 
@Ell You can find it in the units menu.
 
@sehe Designing ideal editor is very hard, that's why there are so many to choose from ;) On the positive side, I have a real need to learn Vim now, since I happen to work quite often over SSH.
 
Ell
It must have left
do they just leave?
 
3:18 PM
I'd actually write a dynlang-based kernel and OS for ARM
 
And nano doesn't quite cut it.
 
Ell
I can't see it in the units
 
@milleniumbug Install Emacs, done.
 
but it's such an idyllic project I can only laugh at it :(
 
@Ell Ah, possible.
 
3:19 PM
heh, in high school I'd deem it perfectly reasonable
 
It needs to be someone's life work. And yeah, hell they're gonna rewrite it all from scratch. It doesn't work like that.
@isocpp that could tone down **a lot** on the claims it makes in the readme. I find it sad when people focus on marketing over quality.
/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Ell
Oh there are two pools of turkey blood in my fortress
 
@milleniumbug FWIW, you can just launch evim and it starts notepad-y.
 
Ell
^an example of the power of the UI
 
@sehe in the idea's defense, we're much more efficient than 25 years ago
 
3:22 PM
> "we're much more efficient"
 
> Serious testing. Our class is heavily unit-tested and covers 100% of the code, including all exceptional behavior.
 
Woah.
 
yeah, we as a humanity
 
I am not sure if this is how he wanted to write this sentence.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Really. Needs proof
@Griwes Anyways, it doesn't stop there
 
3:22 PM
@sehe I started thinking about one the second I finished typing it
 
I think the compliance thing is the worst by far.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's... in time?
@R.MartinhoFernandes And the lies. I begrudge lies.
 
@sehe and sadly I'm not sure I'll be able to produce anything concrete. That's just my impression of looking at tools, development practices and languages now and 25 years back
 
Things like "we allow for more escape symbols in strings as the JSON specification" are just hilarious, when the only escape code supported is actually \". It's also the only one tested.
 
VCSes changed a lot. then DVCSes.
 
3:24 PM
Although with conformance, there would be fewer lies to begrudge
@BartekBanachewicz If you limit the scope a bit, maybe, (like: software development) I'd say "yes, agreed"
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah it's awful
 
@sehe wasn't that implied?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Actually, I don't see that. VCSes didn't change alot. Then - suddenly - DVCSes
@BartekBanachewicz Nope
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
yeah, we as a humanity
@BartekBanachewicz Unless you include things like SourceSafe (but that wasn't a VCS doesn't break the lineage of proper VCSes, RCS, CVS, Subsversion ... )
 
heh
anyway, I kind of hope that pure FP is going to be the next major point of change
 
It's not hard to predict change that's in visible progress for ~5 years
 
3:28 PM
I'd argue that when people come in, you can never be certain.
That's why I wrote it like I did instead of "Haskell is certainly going to dominate the world by 2020"
either way, this is the place where I could put my life effort in.
Not silly battles over best OS for gaming
 
Fast-forward to 2020, when a dictator rules the world after a brief WW3. His name? Haskell.
 
but I'm still so helplessly undereducated that it's a far goal :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz 'they' have been saying it will for a while
 
@thecoshman times change
 
@BartekBanachewicz yet still people pay for convenience and what they know
 
3:30 PM
We're shaking off C heritage, and I don't have to tell you how annoying and big and unwieldy it is
@thecoshman paying for convenience will never change
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... as I just said.
 
user1804599
@rightfold we feel the same way, and now removed any mention from our page: https://github.com/Reactive-Extensions/RxJS We're here to help if you need us
 
user1804599
Awesome.
 
now you have to use it
 
user1804599
I don't mind. I will check it out.
 
user1804599
3:33 PM
What the fuck Markdown.
 
user1804599
How do you put code after a list without breaking everything?
 
Ell
leave a blank line maybe
 
user1804599
No, you have to put something between them lol.
 
@BartekBanachewicz haskell isn't, but the ideas are going to spread yes
 
user1804599
lol ugh
 
user1804599
3:34 PM
 
user1804599
Markdown y u no ignore comments.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought that was "best UI for programmer's editors"?. So you can be "much more efficient as a human developer" writing Haskell :)
 
@sehe Haskell's tradeoff is too close to being correct vs developing software fast for most of the people I think
 
@BartekBanachewicz Indeed. It's like lisp in that respect
 
@sehe Most of the time when I write Haskell code I'm not writing anything :)
 
3:36 PM
Again a case of don't lose sight of purpose
 
@BartekBanachewicz faultless code indeed
 
@sehe eh, Lisp is way more flexible. It's dynamically typed and impure.
@thecoshman hm?
 
@rightføld extra newline and some more spaces.
 
user1804599
How'd you call a type class with >>= but without return?
 
user1804599
With only >>=.
 
user1804599
3:37 PM
Mon? Ad?
 
Ell
Okay now I have a ghost
 
user1804599
@rubenvb <strong></strong> did the job.
 
@rightføld wut
 
> in that respect
It's the aspect of uncompromisingness (is-that-a-word)
 
maybe certainly I misunderstood that
 
user1804599
3:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I can't implement return in my case but flatMap is still useful.
 
@BartekBanachewicz you're impure!
 
Ell
Chainable
I have no idea
 
user1804599
HasFlatMap.
 
HasFapMate.
 
@rightføld What does the >>= do?
 
user1804599
3:38 PM
It's the same as flatMap on lists.
 
user1804599
But more general.
 
Ell
now my child has been possessed
 
one more hour of work and I'm freeeee
 
user1804599
@sehe awesome
 
@rightføld The monad laws are more important than the syntax provided. I wouldn't call it anything.
 
3:40 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ...until the next morning.
 
@VáclavZeman tomorrow's free
also who wants to play Go with me
 
@BartekBanachewicz Unpossible!
 
I want to get back to Go again
 
@Ell You need to put the body in a coffin, or if no body is available, you need to make a headstone.
 
but I need someone to play with regularly
 
3:41 PM
Pair Programming Go?
Oh wait, the game.
 
user1804599
I think Scalaz has it, let's see how they call it.
 
user1804599
> trait Bind[F[_]]
 
user1804599
Guess I'll just call it FlatMap.
 
You're not actually gonna use the >>= symbol, are you?
 
user1804599
3:42 PM
No.
 
user1804599
You can't effectively implement overloading on return type in a dynamically typed language, so I want to desugar do { a <- b; c <- d } yield a + c to flatMap(b, a => map(d, c => a + c)), but I need to put flatMap in some protocol in order to make it overloadable.
 
Is flatMap really better than bind?
 
1913: Daniel Sager of New York has been sentenced to 20 days in the workhouse - for winking at a young salesgirl. http://historyweird.com/1913-sentenced-20-days-winking/
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I don't mind either.
 
user1804599
But JS (interop and target language) already calls it flatMap so I might as well.
 
3:44 PM
@rightføld Well, by cleverly playing with spaces and newlines you can sublist and codeify pretty much anything, although I admit I usually just wing it until I have enough spaces so that it's correct.
 
I bet radfems would love this. :D
 
@VáclavZeman only 20 days???
 
Got that "Previewing the file" bullshit modal dialog again. Visual Stupido.
 
If the unconference is in Europe I probably won't be able to make it
A flight ticket to there is at least a grand and that's just one way usually
 
careers.stackoverflow looks awesome. Much better than linkedIn.
 
3:48 PM
Not even counting expenses are what not
For the actual trip itself
 
Xeo
@Rapptz If the Unconference is in murica, most of us probably wouldn't be able to make it either, so yeah. Not much to do about that
 
We should make two.
 
Xeo
'cept meet in the middle - Japan - obviously!
 
Yeah I know
 
@CălinCruceru yes
but you can't make connections on careers
 
3:49 PM
A ticket to Japan is $1800
 
and it's not as popular outside the US
 
user1804599
How about we do the Unconference virtually?
 
user1804599
Then everyone can join from anywhere they want!
 
Ell
the JS room did that iirc
 
I think London might be the realistic middle ground
 
3:50 PM
I barely get any activity on careers.so
 
@Xeo That's nowhere near the middle, and not cheaper.
 
compared to linkedin, it makes it feel redundant
 
I'll have to check how prices are there
 
user1804599
How about some obscure island in the Pacific?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes shush
 
3:51 PM
@Ell PHP.
 
Virtual unconference lol
 
They had beer over videoconference.
Quite depressing.
 
@AlexM. yeah, that is probably right, but careers looks cool
 
You mean like Google hangouts?
 
Yeah, I think that was it.
 
3:51 PM
personally I'd rather unconference on the Moon
 
I keep careers for two main reasons: 1. it lets me link to my SE activity and 2. my actual CV is the careers profile exported to PDF :P
 
What's depressing about that
 
didn't we decide that the UK was a good choice for the next unconference?
 
@AlexM. Isn't London like super expensive?
 
London?
 
Xeo
3:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, that way it's fair - everyone will have to pay a ton!
 
More than likely yeah
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Oh, I counted UK as part of Europe.
3
 
Ell
London is expensive. Somewhere further north would be cheaper
 
They are in Europe but for some reason a lot of people separate them
 
come to Bristol :P
 
3:53 PM
Azores is the middle ground.
Kinda sorta literally.
 
@Xeo Now are @Puppy and @LightnessRacesinOrbit offended? :)
 
@Xeo u wot mate
 
Ell
Bristol would be fine
 
Xeo
@VáclavZeman Lightness Races to no Unconference anyways
 
"flac is relatively unknown format"
 
3:54 PM
Let's meet on an aircraft carrier in international waters in the middle of the Atlantic.
4
 
fucking spotify
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz wot
 
@BartekBanachewicz It is.
 
@Rapptz The UK is a member of various European organisations, but not as many as most of the rest of Europe, and geographically speaking it is not "in Europe".
 
user1804599
3:54 PM
Since you asked about that last time.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, it is.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am pretty sure the other time I've seen a fridge with FLAC support
 
@VáclavZeman No.
 
@VáclavZeman No, it is not. There is a vast mass of water separating them.
That's like saying that Cuba is "in America" just because you can swim between the two if you're in good enough shape
 
user1804599
3:55 PM
Just pass around an immutable symbol table and use the call stack as a stacking mechanism.
 
user1804599
Call stacks are often the only stacks you need.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's debatable.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's debatable but there's only one winner in any such debate
You can "debate" anything
 
Lol then where is it geographically
 
I think the continent itself needs to be a single landmass
 
3:56 PM
@Rapptz In the British Isles. In the sea.
 
in the middle of a fucking ocean that's where
 
@Ell I'd say you need /less/ contact with kitties, not more
 
@AlexM. No.
 
in some ways the UK is a strange place
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, that's Azores.
 
3:57 PM
half American, half European
 
Nice continent m8
 
Woah, deja vu
"half American"?!?!?!
 
I'm tired
 
@BartekBanachewicz Anybody who thinks it's anywhere close to the middle of the ocean needs a lot of work on their sense of distance.
 
also BTW
 
user1804599
3:57 PM
 
if you haven't noticed
 
@Puppy vs @LightnessRacesinOrbit: fight
 
This War Of Mine is a pretty cool game
 
that's what plonking him was for
 
for not having to deal with the fact that I'm always righter
 
Ell
3:57 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit okay now @LightnessRacesinOrbit is offended ;)
 
easier that way; I get that
 
especially for a couch coop game
 
user1804599
How about we do the Unconference in Somalia?
 
@AlexM. A continent is whatever the speaker finds appropriate for the discussion at hand.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Such a vast mass of water, that trains routinely ride across in a tunnel and ferries ferry to and fro in hours
3
 
3:58 PM
don't ask me how a single player game works as a couch coop game; it just does
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's absurd. Without common intelligibility, language is useless.
 
Ell
> Thikut Cilobidos Farmer cancels drink: Experiencing emotional shock
^ I think he got it the wrong way round...
 
Looks like Vlad found the meta post, 3 more downvotes seconds apart :D
 
what meta post
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A continent is also whatever the listener finds appropriate for the discussion at hand.
Caveat emptor.
 
3:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz enjoy the drama
 
you forgot the requirement that both definitions be the same during the discussion
which, right now, it is not
 

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