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3:01 PM
Y Combinator sounds like an interesting thing
 
I tried to understand that once
IIRC it was quite hard
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes man you're having a bad day, eh
 
And of course the ATM that has 10s and 20s is still out of order
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus haha
 
So now I have 50 I had to go 3x as far for
And there's like 90% chance the delivery person won't have change on them
THE SAGA CONTINUES
 
3:03 PM
@Xeo I don't like purple.
 
I wanted to be honest but really if they don't say anything about money then fuck them
 
@Xeo remember that 20PLN is €5.
 
There's a fucking reason why I paid by card
 
@CatPlusPlus they never do
 
Xeo
@thecoshman It's a tactic to keep the change as a tip
 
3:04 PM
@CatPlusPlus I love how you add those little dings to your everyday life stories
 
@BartekBanachewicz why is everything 4 times more expensive in Poland?
 
Xeo
@orlp lol
 
Hmm. Whenever I hear Mogwai I want to cycle. I think I should have put some more diversity in my playlist when I did that trip.
I pavlov-trained myself.
 
3:06 PM
I do that all the time
 
@Xeo "Delivery will be only 5 please." "erm... I only have 50" "ooh, thank you for the tip!"
 
Except I connect music with particular trips
 
Xeo
I listened to some very specific band when I played through VVVVVV. Whenever I hear their songs now, I have to think of it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
@Xeo Well, I've got all the data in there now. It's quite good, though I don't quite understand the overbudgeted/underbudgeted headings yet. I've budgeted £100 under income this month, so I'd like a big green indicator, but instead it says I've overbudgeted -- presumably because of previous months' failings. Not sure how to get out of this situation.
 
3:08 PM
HAHA COMEDY OPTION IT IS
 
I suspect it's going to take me some time to adapt to this new paradigm, if indeed I decide to.
 
Invoice says paid for even though they refunded
Good job and thanks for free food
 
ITT Cat robs people for food.
 
But it's very hard to come up with a meaningful monthly budget when the software is expecting me, it seems, to use all of it "cancelling out" previous months' failings -- and not being clear on how to do that.
 
3:10 PM
It's not my fault they're idiots
 
@TonyTheLion I can't get it to propagate down to chat. Look at my SO profile.
 
When I started using YNAB, I only put previous month's stuff in it
But you could just start from a bank balance and budget that out
probably makes more sense
 
@caps Eventually the cache will not be able to hold.
@TonyTheLion You play it all the time!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yea I got it on Steam and unfortunately now it says that everytime I have it open, which is a lot
 
How many hours do you have on it?
 
Xeo
3:12 PM
lol
 
Guys!
Question of the utmost importance!
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus gg
@rubenvb Can I kick you? :P
 
@Xeo Please don't, it's Friday and I'm not in the mood for getting kicked :-p
 
> 924 hrs on record
 
Xeo
lol
 
3:13 PM
kek
 
Xeo
Whenever I use YNAB, I just close it after I'm done
 
According to Steam I have over 300 hours logged playing Total War: Rome 2.
 
Xeo
I'm at 160 for SpeedRunners now
 
@Xeo I can't be bothered closing it.
I don't use steam for anything else
 
Xeo
and almost 266 for Terraria
@TonyTheLion You should play some games
 
3:14 PM
Does anyone else here have TW:R2? I'd like to try a MP campaign.
 
I can never get into a game
 
We could play Potato Empires.
I've heard it's a nice game.
lol someone finished last game
 
I should post in the Steam group instead.
(Does anyone actually check that?)
 
I haven't played steam games for quite some time
but I was checking it
 
@BartekBanachewicz you haven't played games for quite some time then? :-p
 
3:18 PM
@rubenvb Hearthstone? LoL?
rFactor :P
 
lolstone
 
Posted on Steam.
Will prolly be ignored like everything else.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ahyes, Blizzard. LoL is crap. Yes that is my final opinion.
No, LoL is probably fun, but it's in my bin of "waste of time" games.
 
@rubenvb you have right to your shitty opinions.
@rubenvb right, the others aren't waste of time at all, lol.
LoL is shitty when played alone
but it's a decent game overall
 
LoL is shitty when played with strangers
 
3:22 PM
i.e. alone
 
I am protecting myself from being pulled into the LoLvortex
 
Just say NO.
NO.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's hard to gather up 7 friends to play with you
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sometimes
I don't have that though
 
3:22 PM
@AlexM. why 7?
 
I tried to set up a curator thing some time ago.
 
team is made of either 3 or 5 people
 
@BartekBanachewicz because there will still be annoying players in public matches unless you fill them up with friends
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Say, will you add me? capsocrates
 
even seeing other players argue against each other like kids depressed me
 
3:24 PM
@caps Can't do that from my phone (and certainly not interested in going through the motions to login at work). If you ping me later tonight, I'll probably be drinking, forget that. Ping me tomorrow.
 
actually yeah I think that's how I'd describe LoL
great game with depressing players
 
@AlexM. what
 
@CatPlusPlus ?
 
other team is muted by default BTW
 
@caps Oh yeah, or ask @Cat.
 
3:25 PM
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuck this shit
there's no way out of it
either I've overspent, or I've overbudgeted ... even in a month where I'm spending less than I'm earning
I'm obviously missing something crucial about how to use this software
 
I posted something on the Steam Lounge forum
for keks
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@TonyTheLion I forgot that existed :D
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit "overbudgeted" is fine for a month where you haven't received your paycheck yet
 
Xeo
3:27 PM
i.e., my YNAB shows "overbudgeted" for December because my income for December hasn't arrived yet
 
is it that I'll be "overbudgeted" until several months in the future when I'm back up to the balance I was when I created the account?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Start with current balance, make general categories, budget it for the rest of the month so you're at 0. Just guess shit
 
@TonyTheLion I don't see anything.
 
Forget about making a backlog
 
this makes literally zero sense
 
3:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes go in Overview
 
It's not important
 
should be there
 
This month, so far, I have made money in my account. Also, I have budgeted less than my income, but also not even spent that much. So why am I "overbudgeted"?
@CatPlusPlus It's pretty important to me
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes
And even if it weren't, I could not make a backlog but then have this exact problem in two months' time when I have one naturally. So what's the difference?
 
3:30 PM
You won't have a problem. If you overspend a category then it just means you have to adjust your budget next month
After a while you'll know how much you spend on what
 
@Tony seems I can't do that from the app either. I'll gift it tomorrow.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes cheers
 
The app can only chat and buy stuff, it seems.
 
If you make a backlog then you'll only get a better initial budget, but that's not that important
 
I updated the Nomic rules, but am a bit too busy to do all the rest of the bookkeeping.
 
3:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus I still don't get it. I'm not "adjusting" anything. I've budgeted for my known outgoings, and I know that I can afford them. Their total is less than my income for the month.
But I've "overbudgeted"? And whatever I try, I can't seem to make that go away.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Things you overspend on the last months budget, also get deducted from this months income
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Your money is literally cursed.
 
So it's its own account?
 
It's really not made for making a backlog
 
I mean, fuck last month's budget, yes it went wrong, so what, this month I'll be fine
@CatPlusPlus It inherently has a backlog all the time.......
or do you delete previous months every month
 
3:34 PM
Than do what Cat says, and don't add last month
 
whattttt
how am I supposed to track my expenditure if I can't see historical expenditure
 
No you don't delete it
Yes overspend/overbudget carries over
 
bahahah, take a look at this load of garbage musterbrand.com/collections/witcher/the-wild-hunt-268
 
Ok so how do I get out of that? By simply not budgeting that X amount?
 
3:36 PM
500 eur for a Witcher jacket
which is a normal jacket with a logo on it
 
It'll take months to ebb that away, which is fine for me personally, but the software doesn't appear to like it
Though to be fair it doesn't know about next month's income yet
 
Overbudget means you assigned more money to categories than you had registered as income
That's why I told you to start with current account balance and not care about anything in the past, so you can budget current month at 0
If you constantly overbudget then yes you should budget less because you're trying to assign money you won't have
 
I did
I budgeted the first month at 0
It really shouldn't matter that the first month is May not November. The software should pretend now is May.
 
Future months will be overbudgeted until you register income
 
ok so what is overspend
 
3:39 PM
Budget is forecast
Spending is actual transactions
 
Overspend is what you go over what you budgeted for
 
If you overspent, then you budgeted less at the start than you ended up spending on that thing, so you probably should budget more there in the future
And conversely if you underspend a lot then you can budget less in that thing, and move that cash somewhere else
 
> closest - 1 | no operator "-" matches these operands
 
@TonyTheLion and why should that impact my next month's budget? what if I had unexpected expenses?
 
I've used this debugger for months now, but I still hope that will work at some point...
 
3:41 PM
@CatPlusPlus I had medical bills that I didn't expect, that won't happen again
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You should have a category for unexpected stuff, too!
Savings should just accumulate
 
@CatPlusPlus I put those things in a "Medical" category..
.lol savings
 
Yes it's savings
 
no I mean, lol @ having savings
I think I'm still getting hung up on how available budget is not my actual income, but my income minus overspend from the previous month. I am stuck. I have no way to make the budget add up to £0
I don't see why they had to make this so complicated
 
Really go through youneedabudget.com/method and the email courses they have
It's not complicated
 
3:43 PM
It really is, like all accounting bullshit
 
You just have weird preconceptions :v
 
It takes a bit of getting used to, and you should read the theory behind it
Took me a while to figure out as well
 
Should all the things.
Be a real shoulder.
 
fuck sake
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it shouldn't add up to 0, it should in theory always have a bit left for savings
 
3:45 PM
That's a goal yes
So you can pay current month from last month's income
At least
 
@Mgetz hence the "lol" - that hasn't been true for a few months but yes I see what you are saying
right okay I'm zeroing off all the previous months to get closer to where you are
0 budget for all previous months
I will still have to solve this problem next month when November becomes "a previous month", but let's see where this takes me
@TonyTheLion :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it sounds like you need to figure out what your baseline income is first, e.g. when it's a shit month how much do you have to live off of. Make that your budget goal
 
I'll come back to it when the next paycheque comes in, and see where I'm at
@Mgetz I have a decent idea of how much I have to spend each month
I also have a decent idea of what I need to spend each month. The two come together into a pretty inflexible budget. That's fine by me, but it's causing me problems in the software when it's essentially insisting that I use my money to pay off previous months' overspend
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit having an idea and having a hard budget are two different things
 
@Mgetz It's a decent idea :P
 
3:48 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because that's what you actually do
When you overspend what you earned
 
I've always had a ballpark figure in my mind and, for expected expenditure, I'm great at following it. But the odd unexpected occurrence here and there throws me off. It's those that I want to track and analyse.
 
You're paying off overdrafts andshit
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit overspend from the previous month impacts the current months budgets, if it doesn't then why are you bothering budgeting in the first place if you don't try to stick to it
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah so how do I show in my budget that I'm aware of that?
hmm
I'm closer to understanding
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You'll need to adjust December's budget if you go over budget in November
 
3:49 PM
except --- maybe I don't want to pay it off this month.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's what automatic carry over of overspend/overbudget does
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Then overbudget again
 
maybe I don't mind being in my overdraft for a few months because I know there is X, Y, Z happening so I am budgeting for those
hmm
ok
I wish it told me "this is okay because you're not spending more than you earn, even though you're in debt, so I'm going to give you the GREEN TICK because you're at least not making it worse"
I think the fact that I'm expecting that and it doesn't do that ... is the problem
does that sound right?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no
 
Overspend in actual categories can either subtract from total budget or the category balance
 
3:51 PM
the point of budgets is discipline, not just money management. If you're not overall increasing your savings then you're budgeting wrong
 
(Click on the red balance to choose)
Overbudget always accumulates in header
 
@Mgetz It's my choice when to increase my savings, not the software's
Discipline is one thing but if I need to pay for X, Y, Z this month then that's out of my hands
I can't just avoid paying my creditors because "sorry, I have discipline"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You have to budget for it earlier!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no you budget for things you have to pay for
 
how the hell do I budget for things that I don't know will happen!
 
3:53 PM
if you know a payment has to happen you budget for it
 
or have any inkling whatsoever will happen
 
Emergency savings
 
Okay great but I don't have any
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit we call that the OH FUCK budget
 
(at the moment)
 
3:53 PM
it should be about 5% monthly
it should nominally go to savings
 
you're not my financial advisor
 
Really read the articles they have on the method and stuff
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit absolutely not, that requires certification, so FTS
 
until I've paid off my student loan and a few other things, which will happen soon, I'm not paying anything into savings. that's my choice. I have enough going into pension and whatnot that I just don't want anything going into savings at the moment. don't make me innit
 
@Mgetz that's kinda my point
 
Personal accounting really isn't that complicated
 
what I do want to do is get my current account back into a more healthy state
no, it's not.
I'm not struggling with personal accounting so much as these particular notions of "budget" and "overspend" and "underspend" and "overbudgeted" and "underbudgeted" and the way they are presented that have yet to feel intuitive to me
it seems that the budget from a previous month affects the budget this month in a way that doesn't sit right with me or at least appears inconsistent
I'm sure it'll make more sense once I've read all the material
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Budget: the maximum amount that should be spent each period
 
but this is my status update :)
@Mgetz "should". according to whom?
 
3:56 PM
Underspend: the amount under the budget you came in, the larger the better
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit to you
 
no, I know what the terms mean
 
Overspend: the amount over the budget, the smaller the better
 
it's the context and how they are presented and how they interact month to month and how I manipulate that to do what I want
@TonyTheLion apparently not :(
I would really much rather not have this 'budget' notion giving me red flags all over the place for no good reason, and instead have my own goal of where I want my current account balance to be at the end of the month, and aim towards it
I used to be really good at it
Like I said earlier, no idea what happened this year :(
 
You put your goal as the budget
 
3:58 PM
If you say I budget 100 GBP this month for food/groceries, and then you spend 120 GBP, that extra 20 will have to come from your next months budget. If you spend only 80 GBP, now you have 20 GBP more you can spend on food the next month
 
I'm going to go back to analysing my spreadsheets for a bit
> that extra 20 will have to come from your next months budget
why can't it come from money I didn't allocate to budget? or can it?
 
Xeo
just increase the budget, then
 
It can, if you have any
 
aisuhgdfkausdfa
lol what's the point in a budget if you can just increase it at any time
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ex: you want to go to the pub 5 times a month, you budget that at the average cost per pub visit. If you go 6 times then you can only go 4 times next month
 
3:59 PM
If you have money free to allocate then header will be green
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You can increase it if you still have unbudgeted money
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit penny here, penny there... sooner than later it's real money
 
@Xeo Or shift money around
Or just roll with overspend
 
well right now I zeroed out previous months' budget, but I physically overspent last month so this month is already £615 overbudget. There's nothing I can reduce - that's what I'm stuck with. And that's okay because I'll still be increasing my overall bank balance by the end of the month and that's what I want to see on the GUI. Actual tangible gains, not an imaginary budget that was broken from the start due to starting off in a bad position.
How do I get out of that?
 
4:01 PM
It takes time and a lot of adjustments along the way :v
 
So basically.. I don't? I just live with the red text, even though it'll be a month in which I make money?
 
It won't conjure up money from the air
 
I think that's really the crux of what's making me get confused here
@CatPlusPlus Yet it's trying to force me into equilibrium with an entirely arbitrary balance (the balance I happened to have at the start of the account)
Honestly, why does it give a fuck that I overspent last month? I didn't have any budget. It's all zero. So why am I penalised for that now?
 
Xeo
the balance is "not more spent than made"
 
Yes because that's what you have right now
 
4:02 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well money that's not in your account doesn't matter as if you get fired tomorrow you're still just as screwed
 
@Xeo "Not more spent than made" is precisely what this month will be. Yet there are red numbers in the headers.
 
as you've pointed out your creditors don't care
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because you overspent last month vOv
 
@Mgetz It is in my account... it's just that last month my balance went down
@Xeo So what? Let last month have a red heading
 
You're doing something wrong
 
4:03 PM
@CatPlusPlus I know :(
 
Okay one more time
Don't overbudget
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No? That'd be akin to "ah, forget I overspent there - I'm good this month!"
 
Assign precisely what you have to categories
 
@Xeo Yes, exactly.
 
Then start tracking transactions and see where you are when the month ends
 
4:04 PM
Forget I overspent there. My balance went down a bit. Oh well. This month everything's fine, I'm paying everything I need to, and my balance is now going up again. Maybe not right up to whereever it randomly happened to be before I overspent, but up, and that's what counts.
@CatPlusPlus That's what I was doing in Excel!
can I just say right now, and I've said it before, I fecking hate money things
 
Xeo
you're just bad at money things. :P
 
you should learn to love it, because it will always be there
 
right I'm just going to ignore the "overbudgeted" heading. everything that is allocated is allocated for a reason, and it comes to less than my income this month. I'm happy with that. I'll ignore the fact that the software is telling me off regardless for no reason
 
its not going away because you hate it.
 
4:06 PM
@TonyTheLion thanks captain!
 
you're welcome Obvious! :P
 
tell ya what though fuck me those monthly payments add up
it's helped to see totals rendered in slightly different categories than I had before
 
Xeo
my monthly payments make up roughly half my income
 
I spend a lot of money but I don't care. I make more and if there's one thing that old people regret is not spending enough money.
 
mine are about a third
 
4:10 PM
I think I spent at least 1000 dollars this month on iPhone related stuff: apps, in app purchases in games, tv series, movies, etc.
 
Woah
that's a lot
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum congrats, you're a whale
 
Whale alert
 
Whale?
 
I've made the mistake of creating categories in terms of expenditure, rather than budget allocations
 
4:13 PM
@TonyTheLion people who spend absurd amounts of money on stuff like that are called whales
 
oh I see
 
because I track my money by analysing expenditure, not budget
blah
 
Well, about 200$ of that was plane tickets and airbnb. The other 800 was the iPhone. Maybe 2-3 songs.
 
I'm also making the mistake of treating this as a balance sheet for my current account. It's not. It's a balance sheet for an imaginary all-of-my-personal-finances account.
Anyway. I haven't done much work this afternoon whoops
 
4:29 PM
oh that reminds me.... who wants to buy an engagement ring for £6500?
also having had no payrise or bonus for several years has screwed me a bit. it's all coming together now
except i appear to have scared off the entire lounge
 
how were you able to sit for that long w/o a payrise
 
4:46 PM
laziness
I haven't had a payrise in about three years
I wasn't even a senior developer yet
our current project ought to help matters tho
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I do.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit if I may ask - how often do you interview?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ya need to job hop some more
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum interview people or go for interviews?
@AlexM. I really do :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit the latter.
 
4:54 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum highly infrequently
 
Are we human?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit do that more.
 
@Jefffrey no, we're dancer
 
@Jefffrey Are you asking me?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah :/
 
4:54 PM
:)
 
I despise it though
and the truth is I'm pretty happy where I am
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it gets kind of fun after a few times.
You don't have to leave, you can stay where you are and still interview.
Make yourself interview at least once a month - it's a constant stream of valuations, you get an estimate of how much you're worth and what technologies people are using and what's out there.
 
why would I invest the time for interviews if I have no intention of changing jobs?
oh, there's that
absolutely no way I could do it once per month
 
user3010322
Hey everyone, quick legacy code question I'm running into.
 
@Jefffrey You're a shoe, from what I can tell
 
user3010322
4:56 PM
Do implementations of std::tr1::unordered_map and things of the newer nature like that actually use an old implementation if you have something as late as GCC 4.8 (if you're forced to use std=c++98) ?
 
@Jefffrey Yes 100%.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Also, interviewing is an important life skill and knowing how to do it well is a matter of practice.
 
user3010322
The source doesn't really tell me if they're just type-defing and debug symbols say it's a new type altogether.
 
You could get fired next month, these things happen and you want to be ready for when they do.
 
user3010322
I'm wondering if the std::tr1 stuff retains old bugs.
 
4:58 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum there's usually an N-days notice for that
here's 20 days
plenty of time to interview
 
@AlexM. hence "next month"
 
yeah I meant to say that it's not that much of an emergency if you get fired
 
20 days is hardly plenty of time.
 
you have enough time to look around for jobs
 
Negotiating from a position of disadvantage is never good.
 
4:59 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum you're right
 

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