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18:00
@milleniumbug Yes, they do. But unique pointers don't because C++ is primitive and can only understand covariance for pointers and references and not class types.
@EtiennedeMartel he he he
It's a shame there isn't any way other than inheritance to make language think that one type IS-AN another one.
std::unique_ptr and intrusive lists could benefit from this
on my list of planned features for Wide
the language already permits it for is-a types like unique_ptr, you just can't declare that fact in Wide itself right now.
18:19
yesterday, by Marco A.
does anyone else think that having a girlfriend inhibits your programming abilities by 205% (more or less) ?
lol nerds
edgy humour wow funny
being cat wow funny
in a not at all kind of way
So I'm trying Slack
I see that girlfriends are a delicate button to press here
I'm sorry
18:24
what does girlfriends have to do with it?
the message was about having or not a girlfriend?
anyway
not the one that was flagged.
the one that was flagged was you pointlessly calling him a faggot for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
how does python have a library prebuilt for everything?
yes, it was about him justifying the fact that he doesn't have a girlfriend because in reality he doesn't want one so that his programming abilities won't be inhibited by 205%
jesus
do i have to explain everything
Things nightmares are made of, Jonathon Blow and Jeff Atwood working together on some project!
18:26
that and being a faggot are orthogonal.
@thecoshman lol what
yeah, you not having a girlfriend was never used to call someone a "faggot"
Is dicsourse being rewritten in blowlang
it was satire against that behaviour
@CatPlusPlus both seem to come out with bullshit ideas, imagine the horror of them collaborating
18:27
I've never seen such behaviour.
lol satire
also, satire is usually funny.
This is not fucking 4chan tia
6
w/e
he would have understand it
because we have such a behaviour in italy
and afaik he is italian
does anyone know how I can make my mingw compiler default to c++11 or c++14 instead of having to type -std=...
18:29
not for racists.
@Puppy it's not funny for you != is not funny
as always I have to explain that you != everybody
like when you talk for the room
I'm not going to get into an argument with you here, hard to argue in a chat where you get flagged for posting inappropriate content when linking a web page that has literally nothing but dozens of peer reviewed behavioral genetics and molecular genetics studies and some data compiled into a chart.
Oh great you again
user1804599
@AaronKyleKilleen You already asked that.
@AaronKyleKilleen You can re-compile the compiler (after modifying the default value for that flag, obviously).
user1804599
18:33
As per the rules:
@AaronKyleKilleen Have you tried to look on Stack Overflow?
user1804599
> That especially includes "I don't have time, so answer really quick", repeating question ad nauseam, linking an SO question and complaining nobody wants to answer it, etc.
@JerryCoffin thank you
> GET nomic.loungecpp.net/latest.json [HTTP/1.1 200 OK 2202ms]
@Jefffrey Is funny for Italians != is funny.
18:34
Cool
If there is no such a question, try to ask such a question on Stack Overflow so that other people can be helped by it.
if I made a joke that appeared to be horrendously offensive to everybody else except Martin James, then I'd expect to get flagged for it.
ok puppy
Oct 4 '12 at 23:01, by R. Martinho Fernandes
In any case, it's my fault that I spent eight years in university. I could have spent three.
Wow. Sounds like my story. I didn't get the degree in the end either.
well
I guess I feel less bad about dropping out after three then :P
18:36
@JerryCoffin I'll have to look into building stuff myself, I never use that option for libraries and stuff as they usually offer the binaries, it looks kind of scary to me.
hmm
unordered containers aren't allowed to change their ordering for fun, right?
i.e., if I iterate over the container twice, I get the same ordering both times.
Why not?
In Hell++ they probably do
Except I was actually the smartest kid through most of my school life, and that made it even more depressing.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Same here. My maths grades are AAAADE or something like that.
I think Go or whatever even has that behaviour built-in and specified
18:38
@Puppy I never actually failed a test that I showed up for.
I barely managed to go through 3,5 years I have no idea how you managed 8
So technically, never got bad grades.
I just stopped seeing the point in the formal education system.
Just no grades at all.
user1804599
Go doesn't guarantee it, but the implementation starts at a random element when iterating a map to make bugs caused by depending on the behaviour easier to find.
18:38
And the last 1,5 was mostly just inertia
why did you come back then?
@CatPlusPlus It's a long story.
@rightføld lol really?
@R.MartinhoFernandes obv, it spans 8 years :P
ah boauls.
strong exception safety for multiple-step operation.
18:39
STM
:v
Why is C slower than Java? Because optimizations are disabled...
11
Q: c slower than java when summing a billion integers

zinkingThis is the case: cat sum100000000.cpp && cat sum100000000.java #include <cstdio> using namespace std; int main(){ long N=1000000000,sum=0; for( long i=0; i<N; i++ ) sum+= i; printf("%ld\n",sum); } public class sum100000000 { public static void main(String[] args) { long s...

user1804599
user1804599
Click Run.
@Mysticial 11 upvotes...
hmm... would it be bad to have a 'types' module? so you get my_lib::types::Foo and maybe a function my_lib::foo::create() -> my_lib::types::Foo {} opposed to having my_lib::foo::create() -> my_lib::foo::Foo {}
18:41
er, in C++?
@rightføld crazy
@rightføld Yes, I figured ^^
@thecoshman What for
user1804599
@bamboon Should be turned off when optimisations are enabled IMO. Not sure if that's actually the case.
user1804599
But in development builds I think it's perfectly reasonable.
user1804599
The other option is to guarantee the order is the same if iterated twice without modifications in between.
18:42
@rightføld Yeah, makes kinda sense
@CatPlusPlus what do you mean, what for?
as in, why do a 'types' module?
user1804599
But such a guarantee just begs for fragile code.
@MarcoA. don't try to make excuses for your gayness
Oh for fuck's sake
18:43
@VáclavZeman How did things turn out for you?
user1804599
@thecoshman lol the same question was asked in #clojure like two hours ago.
well, it looks kind of 'ugly' having my_lib::foo:Foo type... though maybe I should just drop the 'types' module... but then I don't like idea of having all my types defined in root module.
@rightføld is that a good or bad thing?
user1804599
No idea. :D
Ell
Ell
Evening
Hey there
18:45
@thecoshman Yes it's so much better to have a spurious module just for random unrelated types
(So yes it would be bad)
user1804599
Let's answer some questions on Stack Overflow.
So, I think my stomach sickness is psychosomatic. The doctor mentioned that possibility and I dismissed it as unfounded, but now that I've been paying more attention to it, I realize that was not true.
undefined behaviour.
@R.MartinhoFernandes My doctor told me mine could be psychosomatic too.
as far as I can tell, many gut disorders (including psychosomatic) present with virtually identical symptoms.
you should probably do some real tests before deciding on psychosomatic
I did some blood tests already, and I'll see the doctor again soon.
18:53
beh
I got a billion blood tests and none of them ever found anything.
but then again, they're pretty cheap and easy if you don't have Superman Veins like I do
Gotta go now.
baibai
@Puppy Superman Veins?
I'm absolutely terrified of needles.
@Nooble Not only do they hide very deep under my flesh, but they actively wriggle out of the way of needles.
even if you get one, it can still escape half way through.
@Puppy An evolutionary advantage!
18:56
not so much when you want them to be easy for the nurses to get blood out of for testing :P
@Puppy Well, they can try other veins, like in the hands.
they did.
still problematic.
hence why I refer to them as Superman Veins.
it took (literally) five anaesthetologists to get a drip in for my surgery.
@Puppy Did they do a venous cutdown?
Ell
Ell
@Puppy wow
a what.
18:58
They cut your skin open to find a vein.
no, I did not have to have that.
user1804599
Mean of empty list is meaningless (pun intended) right?
user1804599
Like, indeterminate.
Then why the 5 anaesthesiologists?
God I cannot spell that for the life of me.
@rightføld Depends on a mean
Or maybe not
19:02
VS supports proper regex for find/replace now
Can it also edit text properly now
@Nooble Had to have a couple of them to smack my hand, to hold my arm, to operate the blood pressure cuff thing, etc.
@CatPlusPlus What is your preferred editor?
I had to have surgery because of a bike accident once, and I was really terrified of being put to sleep. Local anesthesia was not an option apparently.
19:03
vim
@R.MartinhoFernandes In what sense?
honestly for me it was fine.
@Puppy Smack your hand? What for?
just takes a surprisingly long time to actually wake up after you start waking up.
@Nooble Apparently Superman Veins can move closer to the surface if you smack the skin above them.
@Puppy It was fine for me too. Just had thoughts of scary needles and possible death by overdoes of sleeping agent.
19:04
canny find anything about this in docs. I have my_lib::foo and my_lib::bar, both of these modules offer some public stuff, and a 'type' of their own. How do I get 'bar' to be able to see these 'foo' functions?
honestly, I have a relatively minor case of needle fright myself
I've had plenty of them poked in me (only about 1/4 or 1/5 got blood out) and they're really not that painful at all
but it still looks scary
I just look away whilst they do it.
@Puppy I prefer to look so I don't get surprised. They don't hurt, but like you said, really scary.
I've only had small needles put in me.
And for the vaccines that my school makes an absolute requirement for, I take some sort of inhaling device, not a needle.
Ell
Ell
@Nooble why are you afraid of them? is it just the pain?
@Ell Not the pain, just the looks.
Needles don't hurt me, I know this, but I think I go into panic mode when I see one, and it completely overrides common sense.
Ell
Ell
Phobias are like that
19:16
But it's not extreme, thankfully. I just really want to avoid any situations with them.
Now my phobia for flying roaches, however.
Is extreme.
Ell
Ell
Insects make me uncomfortable as well
Only flying ones, for me.
I dislike them all but flying ones are particularly bad because you can't easily crush them
wasps and hornets are the worst for me
@Václav dunno. In general. I left university and hopped from job to job on a yearly basis. I never managed to derive much enjoyment from any of them. Now I'm here and realising I'm still struggling to avoid falling into depression and thinking about quitting programming altogether. I want to be a garbage collector tomorrow.
I wrote all this and wanted to just delete it all and call it a day but why the fuck did I write anyway? Also I couldn't help but sneak some self-reference in here.
19:21
twould be a loss for our field.
user1804599
Become a scope-bound resource manager instead.
user1804599
I heard managers pay better than collectors.
@TonyTheLion LOL I remember when I was in 1st grade and some genius thought it would be great to throw a paper ball at a nest. I got stung twice, while he fell on his ass trying to run. Needless to say, he got stung a lot of times.
> thinking about quitting programming altogether.
I wasn't expecting that from you :(
Ell
Ell
man
there is much negativity in the room
user1804599
19:22
Ell
Ell
we need the unconference soon
@Ell That's what happens when you get a bunch of super smart people and then they see the world.
> I want to be a garbage collector tomorrow.
Unfortunately this goes through my mind all too often too.
@TonyTheLion dat pun
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe you're letting programming mean too much to you?
19:24
robot perhaps you should consider more theoretical/abstract mathematics or physics?
Ell
Ell
Maybe if you just left it as your job you could get more hobbies and meet more people and be happier
maybe :3
well I gotta say
if you don't derive much enjoyment from your job why do you always work there so late.
or are you the guy who arrives late in the morning too?
user1804599
Soon he'll be a bending robot.
user1804599
With blackjack, hookers and a shiny metal plastic ass.
Awkward Silence
19:33
trying to load LLVM but their page is down
yeah their site has been having issues for a few days
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, I was working in a small company on car navigation systems the last 2 and 1/2 years at the end of my university life period. My university failure was also partially caused by the fact that the work was more rewarding and more entertaining than the university. However, later, after the university period, I had a time when I thought I hated the development job, etc., it passed. I could not think of different way of making living than what I had.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then I fell in love, wanted a family, and moved from the small company to CA Technologies because it was more stable for more money.
so far, I can say that the only thing I've ever found genuinely satisfying in my life is solving difficult challenges and shoving my middle finger up at people who said it couldn't be done or that I couldn't do it.
I've thought a lot about finding another way to make a living, and unfortunately I can't see anything I could do (also considering my condition) that would make me as good a living as programming.
@Puppy you're definitely good at the middle finger part
heh
19:37
@TonyTheLion same
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think I am decent, at least I do contribute usefully to things I am working on, I derive some small pleasures and some displeasures. But every job has highs and lows and given how much I make, I could not think of a better thing to do.
Is this UB?
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion At the end of the day people work to make a living
and not everyone can enjoy what they do
I'd say it's a luxury to enjoy work
I do derive some enjoyment from my job
but I'm saying there's definitely room for improvement
@chris Depends on which Standard version you are using. I believe that it's UB in C++11 and C++03 but legal (and expected behaviour) in C++14.
19:38
and I definitely have days where I'd rather do something entirely different
@R.MartinhoFernandes I do not succumb to the corporate brainwashing, I go to the job to make money for living and to do or buy other things. I do not think I am losing anything, I am not the kind of guy that needs to leave his mark in history or similar kind of silliness.
and unofficially, many implementations happened to support it in various forms prior.
@Puppy Okay, that wasn't what I expected.
@TonyTheLion it's more that the rage it is some times hard to justify.
I don't see how it'd ever be 'expected behaviour'
even in C++14.
19:39
Cool, found a travel bug.
well, in this case, std::istream_iterator<blah>() serves as "end iterator", so there's no reason why that should not function.
@thecoshman we do not talk about the rage derived from programming. :P
oh no wait.
Because istream_iterator is an InputIterator
I'm actually not sure but you might be right, I got max_element confused.
19:40
Not a ForwardIterator
that's almost certainly UB in every version then.
I figured at the very least, giving an InputIterator in place of a ForwardIterator is UB if it compiles.
@Ell It shouldn't really be a luxury, imho
And other than that, it would be returning an iterator to a non-existent thing.
it's undecidable.
whether or not the average person enjoys work or not is simply a function of whether or not people happen to enjoy whatever's currently economically viable.
19:41
0
Q: Open() syscall filedesriptor

NiinleI have to correct the return value of the open() syscall of a posix OS. I understood from the man-Pages that it has to return the file descriptor, and , in case of an error the system call will return -1 and set the errno value. The problem is that I do not know how to get the file descriptor fo...

what the heck are they asking..
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion To me it doesn't make sense to say it should or shouldn't be a luxury
user1804599
Someone explain to me why I'm still hearing fireworks, what's the reason for fireworks today?
Ell
Ell
there is nobody that can make it so besides the employee
that's not true.
the employee can't make it so.
user1804599
19:43
@TonyTheLion In England? Hooligans.
@Ell to me when you said "its a luxury to enjoy ones job", I took that you mean that it was some added on thing that if you're lucky will occur and otherwise won't, and thereby my reply
Ell
Ell
@Puppy Why not?
@Puppy What?
there's only a finite number of jobs available in each field.
even if every single person in the world would be satisfied with a job as a painter, our society obviously cannot function if everybody is a painter.
Ell
Ell
@TonyTheLion yeah that's what I meant
Oh wait I'm dumb ignore my first reply
19:44
there has to be demand for additional employees in the preferred field as well as the will to make it happen on the employee's side.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy okay then, the employee might be able to make it so
right, but it's only very slightly in his control.
@Puppy yea the economics of the situation have to be such that the person can make a living of whatever field they're trying to make a living in.
I mean, not to say that it doesn't have an element of employee responsibility
but there's a big chunk which is completely not.
19:46
@rightføld I don't think its hooligans, afaik no football around here of any size that would attract hooligans
Ell
Ell
@Puppy Hm I disagree that it's only slightly
you're responsible for your own destiny n all
really?
Could be fireworks for 5th November still
I didn't know that.
can I make it my destiny to become an interstellar explorer in the year 1500?
or my destiny to spontaneously accrue five million dollars in my bank account?
Ell
Ell
19:47
@Puppy Nope
or perhaps I should make it my destiny to become the last person living upon the Earth.
Ell
Ell
but I'm sure with enough dedication and hard work you could become pretty wealthy
that would obviously not conflict with anybody else's destiny.
@Ell That's bullshit.
user1804599
@TonyTheLion Maybe it's a catastrophe. #doomscenario
@Puppy you could work towards accruing a million dollars, but I doubt it would happen spontaneously
@rightføld lol
Ell
Ell
19:48
@Puppy why?
well
Ell
Ell
How do you think most people become wealthy?
I personally might be able to, because I'm a genius.
Ell
Ell
Not everybody just wins the lottery if that's what you think
user1804599
19:48
but it's not true in the general case.
@Ell Most people do not become wealthy. The vast majority of people never, ever, become wealthy.
if they did, we would no longer consider that state wealthy.
user1804599
@Ell crime
Ell
Ell
@Puppy depends on your definition of wealthy. and I think most people want happiness as their goal
and if they are happy without being wealthy then they don't need to get wealthy
@R.MartinhoFernandes today, finally got around to installing it (due to Coliru failing). It is nice.
user1804599
hi @sehe :3
ohai
19:50
@Ell You will always end up wanting more.
well, it's true that not everybody is driven by money, but it's also true that there's a fucking shitload of poor people in the world who would do virtually anything in their power to increase their monetary wealth.
the entire reason that China is now the manufacturing capital of the world is that they had a billion people who were so piss-poor and had no other option that their best choice was to work for appalling conditions with very long hours with very low pay.
but they all took that choice because they decided that they'd rather do that than be even poorer.
@TonyTheLion no, we scream about it
Ell
Ell
@Puppy right. I agree that not everything is achievable
@thecoshman I wish.
@TonyTheLion it's the weekend after
Ell
Ell
19:52
but I think if it's in anyone's control then it's yours
it's not "not everything is achievable", it's, "Being wealthy is mathematically impossible for the vast majority of people".
@thecoshman what? thats not an explanation of why there's fireworks right now
@Ell Well, that's also kinda wrong.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy Let's just leave it
if you live in America, then it's not your choice if David Koch bribes all the lawmakers to ban unions so that you can't get any decent wages or working conditions.
19:53
@TonyTheLion it's the night, it's the weekend after the 5th
it's not your choice if the cable companies are a monopoly so you get the shittiest service for the highest price.
@thecoshman ohhh I didn't know celebrations go on this long
it's just hard for us to see because we live in a society where relatively speaking, we lynched people like that, and took the choice back for ourselves.
@TonyTheLion well, the weekend after tends to get a bit of a burst as people are able to get together for things. But it wouldn't be much.
I've been hearing fireworks for the last 3 nights
Like life turned into one big party for quite a few people
19:55
you aware of Guy Fawkes right?
of course
isn't that the 11th?
I thought it was just one night
@Puppy remember remember the 5th of November
Ell
Ell
19:56
remember, remember, the 5th of november
@Puppy 5th you pleb
oh, V for Vendetta :D
also you're thinking about remembrance day
Ell
Ell
gunpowder, treason and plot
I rarely think about remembrance day.
Ell
Ell
19:56
@TonyTheLion that's today isn't it?
user1804599
Few interesting questions on Stack Overflow.
user1804599
it makes little sense to honour soldiers who died for my freedom by not using that freedom.
@Puppy IS THAT what it stands for? V for 5?
@Nooble No.
19:57
Aww.
> In the United Kingdom, the main observance is on the Sunday nearest to 11 November
so that was today

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