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3:00 PM
@rubenvb as you all have come to realize, I'm tired for today, so I might as well link you the python standard
anyway it should be 8.5.1 for list initialization - aggregates
 
Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention. It’s somewhere in clause 5 Expressions, look for the bit about new expressions. Of course it is likely to refer to 8.5, so that’s always relevant.
 
@rightføld Zimbu /cc @Sofffia
@MarcoA. PEP-ticide
 
grggh my package is still on its way
why hasn't it shipped yet
both of the packages actually :D
hey packages if you can hear me daddy is coming to get you
 
@BartekBanachewicz santa is still on vacation, lucky bastard.. he gets to work once a year
 
hi @Cat
@MarcoA. I'm my own santa.
 
user1804599
3:05 PM
@sehe :D
 
user1804599
yay a rainbow
 
@LucDanton 5.3.4/17 seems a good spot
I see nothing justifying MSVC, I might post a question if someone has an idea or knows the problem has been reported already (is there a bugzilla-like for MSVC? I suppose that isn't public)
 
I would be surprised if that bug wasn’t already filed somewhere.
 
I'll take a look at something else related and decide later then
 
@MarcoA. Nah that's unrelated AFAICT. I can't find the sweet spot about {0} though :-(
 
3:16 PM
@rubenvb Why is it unrelated? Direct init includes both direct-list-init and direct-non-list-init.
If you follow the reference, there is then a definition of direct-init that in turn redirects to list-init for a braced-list initializer. That’s all the pieces, innit?
 
I was looking at n3290.
 
Unfortunate mismatch of references :(
 
Now I'm looking at n3337
I should always look at n3337.
 
I used n3936 without thinking.
 
Still, it says the same
It's about access control
Not about what initialization happens?
 
3:18 PM
Reference is correct for n3690 aka C++11. I’ll quote.
A new-expression that creates an object of type T initializes that object as follows:
— If the new-initializer is omitted, the object is default-initialized (8.5); if no initialization is performed, the object has indeterminate value.
— Otherwise, the new-initializer is interpreted according to the initialization rules of 8.5 for direct-initialization.
 
@LucDanton exactly
 
Yeah, still not at the point where {0} means setting everything to 0.
(sorry to be dense, I'm just not seeing that anywhere yet)
Only 8.5.2/3, and that special cases arrays of char...
 
The initialization that is performed is similar is that of T a { …same init… };
 
Which would be char a[10]{0};, for which I haven't found the rule: set everything to zero (well, I have, but only for char.)
 
Relevant bullet of list-initialization:
— If T is an aggregate, aggregate initialization is performed (8.5.1)
From aggregate initialization:
 
3:24 PM
8.5.1/7
 
> If there are fewer initializer-clause s in the list than there are members in the aggregate, then each member not explicitly initialized shall be initialized from its brace-or-equal-initializer or, if there is no brace-or-equal-initializer , from an empty initializer list (8.5.4).
 
from there I'd go to: "If there are fewer initializer-clauses in the list than there are members in the aggregate..."
uh, you beat me to it :)
 
Yeah, just found it.
Damn.
I should not try to do this at the end of a day.
Thanks for sticking with me :-p
 
@rubenvb neither should I. I can safely get this wrong when I'm rested, now it's way too easy
 
np
8.5 used to be one of the sections I dreaded.
It’s not so bad anymore, mostly because I’ve learned to fear other parts of the Standard.
2
 
3:30 PM
well, at least C++ is a standardized language and we can look up something as we just did few chat lines ago
not sure how one would go for a non-standardized language
 
@MarcoA. look at compiler resources, mostly
 
@jalf not today, but I have three more days and I definitely want to try it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes every time you use a nondirect reply Haskell 2014 is delayed by an hour.
 
Also, my wallet hates me.
I found the dice shops.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you found them them or found that they exist?
:D
(I've been over that too)
 
3:43 PM
I found them here in Essen.
 
wait what are you doing in Essen
 
Internationale Spieltage SPIEL, often called Essen after the city where it is held, is an annual four-day game trade fair held in October (Thursday to the following Sunday) at the Messe Essen exhibition centre in Essen. Many german-style board games are released at the fair. Unlike the other major German game fair, the Nuremberg International Toy Fair, Spiel is open to consumers as well as publishers and designers. The fair typically releases turnstile attendance (the number of times a guest enters, i.e., a single visitor who attends all four days would be counted as four attendees), not actual...
 
is some C++ conf there?
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh. Shiny.
 
Ell
Tia maria vs baileys
 
3:54 PM
@Ell Why not both?
@R.MartinhoFernandes There are shops dedicated to dice?
 
Yes. They're the devil.
 
Chop-shops I've heard of..
 
Dedicated to chops?
 
@LucDanton Yes, (well chops and shuts).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh man, So jealous!
 
3:59 PM
heh
 
> Yes, this is an actual PC game screenshot.
 
When Quake was first announced people didn't believe it was real time.
 
@Sofffia btw HTML gen is in some haskell lib featured on adit's tut on scotty
 
@AlexM. you laugh but a) unreal was actually an awesome game b) it was very common to use prerenders at that time
 
4:02 PM
My new favourite.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Quake was my greatest success story.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nice pic. Now I have your fingerprints:)
 
> Note how I detected you are using a broken compiler (MSVC) so I added the necessary qualifications to dependent base members and types.
2
 
@Mgetz thanks for explaining the joke :D
 
4:04 PM
Just a little nudge that
@rubenvb That's simply aggregate initialization. It's there from C compatibility. I.e. since ever
@LucDanton lol
OH: "§8.5 used to be a section I dreaded. Not so bad anymore, mostly because I’ve learned to fear other parts of the Standard" #loungecpp
 
user1804599
Hi there.
 
is it bad practice to make a relatively long function inline just to avoid incomprehensible linker errors?
 
user1804599
Hey @BartekBanachewicz.
 
No.
It's terrible practice.
 
Fix your errors.
 
4:17 PM
ok, thanks for the reality check
 
user1804599
Lol linker errors.
 
@rightføld lol, 'incomprehensible' a given.
 
user1804599
Almost all Canadians in this room share the same opinions, though.
 
4:37 PM
@JDiMatteo It's not a practice at all
Guy knows how to post a followup question as a separate question. Then yanks it while I'm answering and adds a gratuitous "Thanks, that's helpful" comment, instead of upvoting?
 
@JDiMatteo if you're asking me, relatively long functions are a bad practice no matter whether they are inline or not :)
@sehe the button-like link is cool!
 
@AndyProwl I stole the idea from some one. Don't recall who
 
never seen that before
 
@BartekBanachewicz blaze html?
I really liked that library.
@rightføld lol?
 
4:53 PM
@AndyProwl Gah. Really can't find it. Perhaps it wasn't on SO
 
@sehe I didn't even know it was standard HTML
definitely a TIL
 
Ell
Hi folks
 
What happened to SSL?
Another vulnerability?
 
Yes
In the protocol though
SSL is dead
 
@JDiMatteo If you understand the errors, yes.
 
5:05 PM
I have this format string: "%8.1f"
and I don't know how to represent that with iomanip calls/objects/whatever they are
should I feel bad about it?
 
@CatPlusPlus Well nobody uses SSL right? There's TSL now. Which is not dead. right? Right? RIGHT?!?
We are all fucked.
 
As a matter of fact, you are right.
With TLS.
POODLE attacks sslv3 only
or actually, the fact that servers allow clients to downgrade to sslv3
if your server doesn't allow that, you're pretty much safe
 
Ell
@Sofffia I thought TLS was SSL with TCP
but I know nothing
 
Neither do I
 
TLS is a successor to SSL
 
5:11 PM
The article I read says that there was SSL1, SSL2, SSL3 and then TSL.
I mean, I've learned that stuff at some point. But then the goldfish memory plugin got activated and now I know nothing.
 
@zneak that's not to say that TLS doesn't have its own set of issues, TLS1.0-1.1 are subject to the BEAST attack if you use the CBC operation mode
 
yeah, I know
I'm just saying that's not the end of the encrypted Internet
 
the real solution is to migrate everything to TLS 1.2 and later
 
@Sofffia TLS not TSL
 
@AndyProwl: does an avoidance of long functions really hold up in practice? I sometimes feel like breaking things up into tiny functions makes the code overall longer and harder to understand. like adding too many layers of abstraction makes things harder to understand sometimes
 
5:17 PM
@Mgetz Haha "real"
@JDiMatteo Yes, no
 
@JDiMatteo IME choosing good names helps a lot
My functions are rarely longer than 6 lines, max. 10
 
@CatPlusPlus: does "Yes, no" mean something? is that a joke?
 
Yes it holds up in practice, no it doesn't make the code harder to understand
 
@CatPlusPlus: thanks for the clarification :)
ok, I'll try and embrace short functions more
 
Ell
5:34 PM
I wonder if clang was updated when I did svn update in the llvm directory
probably not
 
no, it was not
you need to svn up tools/clang
 
Ell
Ah well. I needed to update llvm to update clang anyhow right?
 
yes
so it's not wasted
 
Ell
it's been building for an hour at least
 
yeah, it's a long build
 
Ell
5:37 PM
I don't think I've made it concurrent
Nope I haven't.
 
do you see make[n] in the build output?
 
Ell
one core on 100%
 
posted on October 16, 2014 by Eric Battalio

The Release Candidate of Visual Studio 2013 update 4 is here. Download Visual Studio 2013 Update 4 RC Visual Studio 2013 Update 4 KB article Announcement on Brian Harry's blog, Visual Studio and TFS 2013.4 (Update 4) Release Candidate ...(read more)

 
you might also be limited by your hard disk throughput
 
Ell
it's actually on an ssd but yeah
I need to do -j 3 when I build clang to build on 3 cores
 
5:38 PM
this summer, my team lead had his sources on one ssd and his build products on another one
so that the compiler could saturate disk IO for both reading and writing
 
> The delicious Colchester oysters were one of the main reasons for the Roman invasion of Britain in 43 AD.
 
user1804599
2
Q: Possibly antipattern loop

keldarWhenever I write a loop, I always use closure if it's appropriate by way of a self-executing anonymous function. I will typically write my searching loops as follows: var i = 0, length = myArr.length, fe = null; for (; i < length; i++) { if ((function (el) { if (el.searchCon...

 
user1804599
What the fuck.
 
lol
what is this loop even for
 
Ell
I made baileys cookie dough
 
5:56 PM
evening nubberies
@Ell That is awesome.
but if any of it made it into the tin, you suck.
 
Ell
it's in the freezer firming up now :D
I don't plan on baking it
 
good boy
now where's your lead?
 
Ell
my lead?
oh -.-
I read it as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead at first
 
Bailey is waiting for his cookie dough.
 
Ell
haha
dogs can't eat cookie dough :O
 
6:07 PM
I beg to differ
 
Ell
Hmm. I have an awful lot
I might have to bake them after all
I need to go buy a silicone baking sheet
back in a bizzle
 
Xeo
yay, home
 
Fucking LRiO piece of shit
 
what's he done now
or wait, do I even want to know?
 
Why did he have to virtually die?
 
6:19 PM
wat
 
Why isn't he coming back?
 
is this the part that's supposed to be considered bad?
because I'm feeling more like party-throwing
 
You have no soul.
 
user1804599
@Xeo without me :'(
 
I do have a soul
a glad soul
a soul that's gonna be glad when he gets paid.
that's gonna be nais.
 
6:23 PM
You'll get paid too sooner or later ;)
 
yep, in this case "he" refers to me.
 
@Sofffia lol, the irony of that statement in context of LRIO parting message is rather amusing. They're right... you can't win, anything you do will piss people off
 
lol the dog's face at the end i.imgur.com/cxh1AkA.gif
 
Nice timing alex
People are crying over here
 
wait, again?
 
6:27 PM
what parting message?
 
YES, AGAIN
 
stop crying people
 
@Puppy I thought you'd been working for longer than 2 weeks, do you not get paid bi-weekly?
 
@AlexM. I'll certainly do when LRiO will be back
 
@Mgetz Monthly
 
6:28 PM
ouch
 
it's normal here
 
here too
you also get the 13th and sometimes 14th monthly pay during the year
 
not here, standard is bi-weekly
 
the 13th in december and the 14th for the summer IIRC
 
lol, democratic party makes a new video to promote their presidency candidate (pretty much everyone hates)
 
6:30 PM
or something
 
> Comments are disabled for this video.
this seemed quite ironic
 
lol No, I must be sad!
 
eh, I don't really think so
 
ratings are hidden too
 
let's face it, it's YouTube.
 
6:30 PM
lolol
 
it's not like the commenters are going to have a real discussion about politics
 
nope
I agree with you
 
I'm in silly mode
I better go
 
and it's not like the commenters won't comment, it's just that it'll be elsewhere
 
however, on a video where a person says how great this candidate is and how much he's done for people
I think it's ok to allow people to display their hate in the comments
 
6:32 PM
Boo Hoo! Meh!!! Tears are streaming down my face.....

OK, beer festival at club tomorrow!
 
since they also disabled separate ratings, it's pretty safe to assume that they expected the people to display their dislike
and didn't want this to happen
 
it's not "the people", it's random internet trolls from anywhere.
 
from anywhere in Romania you mean
also trolls vote too
 
in the middle?
 
6:34 PM
@AlexM. I wasn't aware that Romania had troll sufferage, I guess that makes them more progressive than the Scandinavian countries
 
tbh, you don't have to be on the internet to see people hating this candidate
I hear about how bad he is whenever I take the cab, for example
 
right
 
the drivers always use it as a discussion topic
 
but those people are actual people expressing an actual opinion
as opposed to random American internet trolls with nothing better t odo.
 
why... American
 
6:36 PM
because they're the fattest slobs around
 
you seem to assume that whoever decides to express their dislike for the candidate on his promo video, must also be a troll
 
no, I'm simply assuming that the trolls will create enough noise to drown out any legitimate discussion.
 
what discussion lol
 
any hypothetical discussion that may have taken place in the comments section of a YouTube video because we all know that real discussions never take place there for any video, anywhere, any time.
 
people don't go through huge debates before voting
 
6:38 PM
sure they do
 
they are influenced in their decision by many factors
one of which is a video with 0 dislikes and 0 negative comments
regardless of the fact that it was forced to look like this
 
so what?
 
that was the highlight of this whole thing
 
it's not like the people are gonna be stupid enough to think that 0 comments == 0 negative comments.
they're gonna watch the video and have an opinion about it and it's not really gonna be influenced by how many dislikes there are or what random Internet trolls think about it
 
now you just want to not see my point at all :<
 
6:39 PM
it certainly appears to me that you don't have a point
 
you're kinda fighting it off with hypothetical situations but ok
 
if you can come up with a single case where anybody, anywhere, was swayed by comments or ratings on a YouTube video, then I concede the discussion.
 
I'm arguing that a video where all negative feedback is hidden can influence people into thinking anything other than what the negative feedback would have showed
and you're telling me that "people are not that stupid"
 
they are going to encounter all the reasonable feedback they want on television and on social media websites.
YouTube comments are not necessary for them to understand what other rational, informed people think or say.
 
how can you be so sure of that?
you're making these assumptions and treating them as facts
 
6:43 PM
because YouTube comments are a cesspool that no rational person pays attention to
and because "People are too stupid to comment on Facebook instead of YouTube" is a truly ridiculous position to hold.
 
you lost me completely, I think
but fine, you're right
I hope Romania is full of rational people
who are not manipulated by a video
 
@Puppy eh... we're losing the fattest title, but pettiest I think we still hold
 
it's not (nowhere is) but YouTube comments are just that bad.
burrr it's le cold
 
Is there something like the Swan book, for C?
Teaching C as a first programming language, that is.
I have been researching for an hour, and so far it seems every C book is either terrible or does not target novices.
 
C is both terrible and is especially terrible for novices
so I guess I'm not sure what you were expecting
 
6:54 PM
I'm seriously considering "C for dummies"... :-D
 
write one yourself
it'll take you all of ten minutes to write "Don't; use Python instead"
 
That would be my #1 choice, but that would also mean no time on the weekend for anything else for the next 10 weeks.
 
Python alternately fills me with joy and inexplicable rage.
FUCK YOU INDENTATION ERROR, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT THAT MY EDITOR LIKES TO AUTOINDENT WITH TABS AND I USE SPACES
 
Anne is playing at the 'Three Tuns' tonite. That means that the food provided for the darts team will be huge, suspicious-looking sausages and chips that, if wrung out, could provide enough oil to keep my Fiesta going for a month.

I think I'll stay in.
 
what, exactly, is suspicious-looking about sausages?
 

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