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12:00 AM
Shiit, I'm totally Wainwirghted.
I don't see why everyone constantly attacks him.
Looking at the transcript, there are a lot of 'hate' posts about him that are getting stared.
I can see why it'd be discouraging and lead to quitting.
user1646075
@Rapptz the sad thing is, he rubs a lot of people the wrong way. They don't notice his intensity is probably not actually malicious, but it can be very confronting.
for a binary search program in java, am trying to understand why the computation complexity is log n base 2
12:09 AM
wrong room
Yes.
because program is written in java?
Because this is a lounge.
@aclarke He doesn't really rub me the wrong way. He can be antagonistic at times (well, a lot of times) but at the end of the day it doesn't really mean much.
lounge mean room to relax?
12:11 AM
In theory, yeah.
@overexchange because ... you. sorry not wanting to be offensive, but it's the truth
There are answers for everything there.
user1646075
@Rapptz if you can take it with a grain of salt, or give as good as you get, or just let it wash over, sure. Many people haven't got that strength, unfortunately. I know he had a few goes at me in the few short weeks I've been visiting, and I took it as intensity rather than straight-up nastiness. He's got a sharp brain and cares a lot about a lot of things... that was his saving graces for me.
@overexchange Have you read through: stackoverflow.com/a/487278/179910?
user1646075
12:16 AM
I had to learn to chill the fuck out, I recognise a lot of similarities in that regard
i only read this before going to bsearch youtube.com/watch?v=ols-iBfOuoM
exponential functions youtube.com/watch?v=_HWyDSzbqGo
Ell
Ell
@lightness come back all knowing one :( I need you here to keep people grounded!
i will go thru the links you provided
Ell
Ell
Man what did you guise do. Now I'm just gonna have to find him in person
I'm gonna need a photo of him. I'll find him next time I visit my bro
@aclarke he definitely has a sharp brain, just look at his c++ skill
Anywhoops
user1646075
@Ell there are ways and means. He probably needs to find a calmer path through life. Maybe this event will give him something to think about.
Ell
Ell
12:25 AM
It just sucks though man
Regulars leaving
They are internet friends
As opposed to internet strangers
You build relationships with them, so it still sucks for them to disappear
I wonder if its the group aspect of the chat which causes it
user1646075
e-friends are far more ethereal that ones in meatspace, but still it can be real while it lasts...
Ell
Ell
@aclarke yeah that's what I mean
I don't have any meatspace friends currently
user1646075
I've had a few e-friends that are now just memories. Good memories
Ell
Ell
Well I do but they're all away so they've essentially shifting into the aether
user1646075
@Ell well, we've talked about this ;-)
12:28 AM
@aclarke i...i... misread that as meatspin
shudder
user1646075
@Borgleader c'mon man, we're trying to be deep here...
not sure if pun or...
user1646075
meatspin; see also Brüno Gehard
Ell
Ell
Oh god :L
user1646075
@Borgleader all good. Watching personalities interact is always interesting.
12:30 AM
@Ell I've tried. Never saw a lot there. Looking through his top-voted answers, the highest one is about JS, not C++ at all. Next is his polemic about how you shouldn't use "STL". Only about terminology, not really about C++ at all. Next is standards quotes about iterator invalidation rules; pretty much anybody who wanted to download the standard could do at least as well. Next is his long-winded imitation of what Frunzi did (at least) twice as well: stackoverflow.com/a/8697107/179910
Ell
Ell
@martin earth to martin, do you read me?
@jerry maybe I'm just overly impressed by standardese talk
user1646075
@JerryCoffin the follies of youth.
@JerryCoffin so what youre saying is, hes a good language lawyer, rather than good at c++?
Ell
Ell
Sometimes people have shit to deal with in real life though too
It's odd when people disappear without saying goodbye
It seems much less significant
They are more just forgotten
user1646075
@Ell - then you just assume they got busy...
Ell
Ell
12:35 AM
Yeah
Like Pawnguy7?
should I buy a 3ds or a PS3?
@JerryCoffin Eh? Top answers aren't an indication of 'skill' -- they're an indication of answer popularity.
Ell
Ell
Or domagoj . although he returned briefly iirc
i miss domagoj :(
user1646075
12:36 AM
@corvid do you want to sit on a couch or a bus?
I bring my couch on the bus
Ell
Ell
@mooingduck also kind of disappeared but that is because of his work. I think he "left" on very good terms though. And I think he very occasionally drops by.
Domagoj s leaving was kinda sad
Who else has left ?
Does kbok ever come back?
user1646075
@Ell, say hello like a dog, and goodbye like a cat.
@Borgleader No, not even that, unfortunately. His one about iterator invalidation rules is a prime example. It's basically just taking some fairly simple rules and summarizing them. Compare that to the depth of analysis in an answer from Johannes (for one example).
Ell
Ell
Johannes is simply amazing
His knowledge of c++ astounds me
It would be a sad day for robot, puppy or sehe to leave also
Or rightfold
We're just a big dysfunctional family here in the lounge
12:42 AM
@Rapptz I don't have time to critique every one, but I've looked at a lot of his posts and can hardly remember a single one that prompted me to give an upvote, and probably a half dozen or so that seemed worthy of downvotes (despite that fact that overall I've done ~6000 upvotes and ~150 downvotes).
I severely disagree here.
It feels like it's just being spiteful.
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of much worse C++ answers.
Tomalak's C++ answers are not bad at all. I think it's silly to dismiss it because there are people who provide much more detailed answers.
The same could be said about anyone in this room.
Just look at my 'top answers'. The highest one is specifying a bug in MinGW, the second highest one is essentially a copy of a table in the C++ standard.
Hello, what is the technical term for a function that decides whether something belongs to a collection? The function returns bool, and if it returns true then that object belongs to a given set.
mapping function?
Predicate
Ell
Ell
Predicate is say too
boom! thanks!
12:55 AM
@Rapptz That was in reply to a question specifically about whether he's a language lawyer or not. Simple quotes of the standard aren't necessarily bad, but they're not enough (IMO, anyway) to qualify one as much of a language lawyer.
A user who just 'dumps' quotes of the standard is essentially this one. I don't think Tomalak is like him though.
@Rapptz I agree that there are a lot worse answers around--I don't know a way to get an exact count, but I've probably voted to delete at least a few hundred posts (a thousand wouldn't really surprise me) over the years, and I don't think any of LRiO's was among those.
Ell
Ell
I'm so hungry for something
I don't know what
Cookies.
@Rapptz I've seen him a few times. I've sometimes wondered whether he's basically giving "engineered" replies--e.g., that he's spent some time in SEDE and specifically designs his posts based on what he's found there about maximizing score.
Ell
Ell
1:02 AM
I'll make cookie dough tomorrow
Or I'll end up buying Ben and Jerry's
@Ell Bacon and chocolate pizza! The ultimate food.
Ell
Ell
Interesting combination at least
I'm in bed though and I don't have the willpower to get up
@Ell Okay, I'll admit: I've never tried it. Sounds cool though, doesn't it?
TIL std::partition_point
wait what
@Rapptz Did you have a use for it? I've seen it in the standard, but I'm pretty sure I've never used it.
1:10 AM
Not so happy birthday to the Lounge.
@Rapptz Use your imagination!
Is that STL's?
Oh I should have read on.
needs a is_transparent typedef.
@MarkGarcia Happy Birthday (even if the birthday is technically already over for you).
Oh. Yes.
@JerryCoffin Oh haha. That is both correct for my birthday and my timezone (Oct. 16 here).
@MarkGarcia You are up pretty early, aren't you? It's only, what, ~6 AM for you?
1:14 AM
Nope. Not at all. 9 AM. At work.
@MarkGarcia Hmm...I guess my counting ability is even worse than usual today.
@Rapptz His older answers seem better than newer ones. The new ones are just... lacking.
Also I stopped voting most language lawyer questions/answers for a while now... Says the man who has a history of dumping standard quotes.
1:33 AM
STL likes the same coding style I do.
Rapptz True Style.
1:52 AM
@JerryCoffin way to flatter yourself :p
Much like Requires mimics EnableIf (although with the option of producing helpful diagnostics), I need an equivalent of DisableIf.
Check.
I have that, for e.g. static_assert( Concepts::Check<concepts::Foo<A, B, C>> () );. I want to avoid/replace DisableIf<Concepts::Check<concepts::Foo<A, B, C>>>... which is noisy as hell.
iunno.
It’s fine. I’ll pick Unless. Reminds me of ‘shall not participate in overload resolution unless…’.
2:05 AM
people who say they are quitting usually will come back, it is the people who quit without saying anything that sometimes disappear for eternity ... as long as e-communities are concerned that is ...
because voicing one's anger and/or frustration means one still cares
2:40 AM
Requires<RandomAccessRequirements>... doesn’t look right.
I’m trying out allowing refactoring of packs, e.g. using RandomAccessRequirements = Group<concepts::RandomAccessRange<Ranges>...>;.
(It’s not a logical conjunction like all/and since it can appear in Unless, where it plays the role of a logical disjunction. It’s a syntactic convenience.)
2:52 AM
hey Luc
how much RAM does your machine have?
damn
thanks
I'll never find someone with 16 GB
I have another machine.
…which I can’t remote into because one of the SSL security update broke something? What the fuck!
I don’t remember why I picked arcfour as the cipher for my client. It’s not accepted anymore.
@Rapptz To cut the story of my incompetence at adminning short, I do have a 16GB machine.
2:58 AM
I don't have enough RAM to do this project euler problem
Paste the source somewhere and tell me what kind of compiler you’d like. Or give me something to pull from?
I have GCC from 4.7 to 4.9.
no compiler preference tbh
just -std=c++11 -O3 will do I think
Hang on, I’m sucking more at being an admin. Tmux is being capricious.
3:02 AM
ah okay
I originally used uint64_t instead of int but then I realised that's 16 GB just for the vector alone.
It’s running.
lol is it slow
if it is, I'm sorry :(
Dunno about that. It is eating a whole core yes.
Memory usage is quite stable at around 50% btw.
it's not very efficient
it took about 45 seconds to program though
When in doubt…
So the memory usage is because it allocates scratch space from the start and scribbles over it during the run?
Looking at the source, that is it.
3:08 AM
yeah
k you won’t mind if I take my eyes off it then, no danger of it making the machine swap or anything.
nop.
thanks a ton :D
Oo visual studio C++ :x
@LucDanton If it's still running it you should prolly kill it.
3:21 AM
It is.
yeah kill it that's too long
Brute force no good hey? ;)
it's not too brute force-y :p
what's the max stack size for GCC?
Asking about the compiler or the program it produces?
program it produces
like how much am I allowed to put on an array lol
3:26 AM
I don’t think there is one by default, it’ll put as much as you ask for. (And then it segfaults.)
err
That’s not phrased well.
I think on linux it depends on ulimit
^right
I hope I can have 4 bytes * 3 arrays * 6308948 elements
Not without some massaging I would think.
@Rapptz Digging around, stack usage is in general within the realm of the system linker and of the system, not GCC.
3:44 AM
hmm
@Rapptz Can you find a non-brute force way to attack it?
I keep getting 0xC0000005.
:'(
Not familiar with that.
Access Violation on Windows.
Just in case: you can’t cheat out of RAM usage by going to the stack.
Sometimes I wonder how dumb you think I am :(
The stack is infinite!
I can’t foresee why you want to put that much stuff on the stack. Allocating is the right tool for it.
I was just curious.
I'm using vectors anyway.
I think if I can put things on the stack then it means I did a decent job at optimising this for memory.
@Rapptz Hey now, I consider sanity checks a regular occurrence in here. They’re important!
3:49 AM
@Rapptz Benchmark and report the results to me :)
@Rapptz I don’t think you’re dumb.
@Rapptz Robot does, IIRC.
does std::vector<stuff> x{size}; not resize?
I can't imagine why I'm getting access violation
It does.
3:54 AM
@MarkGarcia he has 32GB
@Rapptz I really don’t like hunting for that sort of stuff without a debugger.
Before I debug I usually do my "is everything obvious here" look
I also can’t imagine why accesses and memory go bad in general. It’s almost always a surprise when I go look at it with a debugger.
@StackedCrooked IDRC then. I only have 4GB on this machine. :(
Then again, I do play fast and loose with reference types.
3:59 AM
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x0000000000401674 in main () at p375.cpp:29
29              S[n] = a;
helpful
Can you take a look at S and n?
s/Segmentation/It's your/
4
:P
Oh wait wait wait
This is one of those C++ gotchas
fuck my habits
Or would you say… surprise?
6 mins ago, by Rapptz
does std::vector<stuff> x{size}; not resize?
4:01 AM
lol
this is initializer list isn't it
Depends on stuff.
int!
Also depends on size.
also an int
problem fixed
4:01 AM
Then yes, it is assuredly an std::initializer_list.
9 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@Rapptz I don’t think you’re dumb.
It's a preferred universal syntax for construction! Unless...
^I didn’t mention the possibility
I know about the gotcha
The one that makes me mortally afraid is actually vector_type v { a, b };
There’s simply no telling what that does…
it's just one of my habits
4:03 AM
@Rapptz So did you use the debugger to figure all that out?
nope
I was just looking at S again and realised the problem
Hey everyone
heyo
I know this is not the place but I'm quite desperate so:
I have a presentation to make, about my research, in about 3 hours.
I studied Heart Sound analysis methods, more specifically i just took a whole bunch of wavelets and studied their effectivness on amplifying features of heart sounds
And now I'm sitting here scared like idk what, thinking on what I should actually tell those people
Who know absolutely nothing about Heart phisiology or heart diseases and actually nothing about applications of wavelets for medical signal processing.
And presumably nothing about wavelet analysis as well
The research itself is total trash in my opinion, it has no practical use aside from serving as an overview of the problem and maybe as basis for someoen who wants to bootstrap theirs. I found out that DB2 wavelet is the best for my particular problem but I had just one sample (which is kinda okay, but not okay at the same time).
beats speaking to a panel of experts who know exactly where you made a mistake ...
4:14 AM
So what sort of audience is this?
user1646075
@Ivan0x32 Dude, what language are you speaking?
Oh yeah sorry if that made zero sense, I was so lazy in last couple of months that I started forgetting how to speak english lol
user1646075
You do know that C++ means computer programming, not Heart medical medical
user1646075
no, you are speaking medical is my point. May as well ask us about flower arranging.
@aclarke Not really... I have easy access to people who are flower arranging experts
user1646075
4:17 AM
@HWalters ummm, Ancient Mesopitanian methods of cattle husbandry?
Well, sorry about that too, I'm just really desperate and happen to remember that some people here had a MSc-PhD in CS and probably have experience with academic aspect of it.
user1646075
heh - which people?
Um idr tbh, just generally remember someone said something like that.
@Rapptz When I go about such things, this is what it looks like.
Took me some time because my pretty printers have been broken for some time now. Couldn’t be bothered to fix them until now.
With a recent enough GDB, I could also do things like p v.size() to explicitly query the size. (Needs to be recent for xmethods support.)
Guess I'll just return to my misery and try to work something out.
user1646075
4:24 AM
sorry, maybe a bakery will have an answer. Don't mean to sound callous, but talk about long-shots...
C++ < B-- ?
@Rapptz Oh also, the above example doesn’t use libstdc++’s debug mode. Which I use for, well, debug builds.
I did p n and saw it did segfault at 204 which I thought was odd
because the array size was 6308948
so I went and checked and yeah
How do you find that stuff? Do you use or review the library?
I check all his commits.
and give comments sometimes
btw @LucDanton I managed to optimise it for memory and speed:
7435327983715286168
[Finished in 1.2s]
used 75 MB instead of 8 GB
@Rapptz nice
4:52 AM
> ancient geek
lol
I find myself writing Requires<concepts::Range<std::decay_t<Range>>>... now. The reasoning that when passing a copyable const R (where R models concepts::Range), const R itself is not a model but the copy that will be stored (and hence, decayed), is required to be.
Makes complete sense but I’m not sure if that looks nice.
Is the conjunction concepts::Range<std::decay_t<Range>> && concepts::Constructible<std::decay_t<Range>, Range> worthy of a concept itself?
Ah, that makes way too much sense. Now to find a name…
Something to do with storing?
‘Storable, and the stored result is a range.’
StorableAsRange, mmh. Let’s call that a working title.
@JerryCoffin It was great. I love that guy!
Although I don't understand his job 100%. Does he send pull requests to Dinkumware? :)
Or if Dinkumware really still exists.
@FredOverflow Apparently.
5:06 AM
@FredOverflow I've seen that many times. I'm tempted to contact and ask them bluntly.
@MarkGarcia Ask them what? If they exist?
Yup.
Maybe they mainly do in private contractual jobs that's why we see only one of their products.
Hmmm... that's the address of a UPS Store
lol. Investigation ensues!
5:19 AM
Well I used to live in Maynard, long ago... which isn't that far a drive
So I was doing the google maps thing
Still too painful to just do a drive by unless I'm in the area
I recently realized that vtable entries are modified each time a base class constructor is completed. And the reverse happens during destruction. I never realized it was this dynamic.
I follow Scott's advice to never call virtual methods from a constructor or destructor.
The entries are modified, or pointer to it?
However, if you do call them it's only UB if it was a pure virtual method.
@HWalters Good question.
user1646075
5:46 AM
@StackedCrooked there's a fantastic book called "Inside the C++ Object model" Recommended reading.
I have it at home! But didn't read much yet ;)
I'm building a collection of classic C++ books.
user1646075
@HWalters the entries. The obhect pretends to be Base, then Sub1 as it gets built
user1646075
@StackedCrooked it gets really interesting when MI and ptr-to-members under the influence of MI is covered
user1646075
@StackedCrooked I have it on file - you're so old fashioned...
user1646075
6:02 AM
hmmm, actually it might be enough to change the vptr to the relevent vtable as it's building up, but I forget ;-(
6:22 AM
Good morning guys
6:32 AM
Just double checking if I wasn't accidentally looking at different pointer offsets. Seems that it's really the vptr that is changing. Cool. Now all remains is finding a convoluted way to use it in real code :P
6:47 AM
@Nican Sure :)
@sehe That is one fancy privacy policy.
It's one fancy everything really. I've been surprised more than once what neat details they got right
Well, first thing I usually check is the privacy policy.
Haven't seen the rest yet.
They don't seem to like the Lite users.
Doesn't count towards referral links lol.
Agreed
Has ld/gold always reported missing definitions by only pointing to say, a header? Knowing which object file has the undefined reference would be more useful.
7:00 AM
it prints filename and object name iirc
/tmp/ccxMLBme.o: In function `main':
program.c:(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `avpicture_get_size'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
ah
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd love for this to not be made into a big deal. It was a really simple decision I made, to get out of the line of fire; it's exactly here, so you already knew everything relevant, IYAM.
Everyone can stay and we can skip the mudslinging. I don't know why that happens. I'm sorry.
has anybody nexus S?
CBA to switch to ld to see the differences in messages, I find -exec’d my way out of it.
this format string thing really demotivated me on programming
7 hours ago, by Jerry Coffin
@Rapptz The short version: @Sehe quit as room owner, citing LRiO's behavior as part of the reason. sbi noticed, and didn't like that. I agreed. LRiO said he was settling things privately with another (unnamed) room owner, then shortly later said he was leaving. Much discussion of his faults (or lack thereof) ensued, along with some about room ownership in general.
@R.MartinhoFernandes This ^
@R.MartinhoFernandes I agree. See here and here. Let's stop piling on people. It doesn't help.
7:06 AM
I may have spoken too soon. Weak symbols are confusing me.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, did you catch my compliment? I really have a lot to learn and I'll try to make the most of that!
Ah, was looking up the wrong symbol.
‘I wonder what’s the command that works like :only, but for tabs.’ Turns out it’s :tabonly.
7:24 AM
It's tabo! We can't talk about it
hola senoritas
Oh shit... looks like I missed all the drama in my last few days of busy work...
-1: wrapping every trivial output statement in a function just adds fluff to your program, clouding what happens. It would be better to rewrite the logic if repetition is a problem. — rubenvb 27 secs ago
That being said, this room is full of fluff.
setw already is a function: /* unspecified */ setw(int n) which is being passed to operator<<(std::ostream, ...)TemplateRex 15 secs ago
I have little idea of what happen here too, just a few 'old' loungers are no longer with us & a few newblets came ...
A bit like life itself, in a much shorter version
7:41 AM
@sehe Does your workflow lead to you wanting to open multiple tabs at once? I’m looking for the convenience of vim file1 file2 …, but in an already open Vim. Looking around leads me to :args … + :tab all, but that seems a bit roundabout.
@TemplateRex true enough.
@LucDanton edit your vimrc file
fuck I can't find any question I want to answer...

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