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17:03
Bye
Hi all...
Als
Als
Hola @KerrekSB
There's a new interview with Stephan Lavavej -- it's very entertaining :-)
He says "I didn't understand what the this pointer means in Java [...] to this day I don't understand it". Hehehe.
Also I didn't know that he has an extensive personal website, as well as his own distribution of MingW.
Als
Als
cool.
do you follow ch9 regularly?
I used to, but it's been pretty quiet since Summer I think
Their discussion forums seem utterly pointless, though :-(
I tried a few of the "functional" series, but I found them frustrating...
STL is by far the most exciting -- he and Herb Sutter, I suppose. Anything with Herb Sutter is worth watching
Als
Als
17:09
hmm..Never tried other forums actually
Don't bother, really.
Als
Als
Anything about Herb,Scott and Andrei is worth watching/hearing/reading :)
Ah, there was a threeway panel/interview once... let me see if I kept a copy...
Als
Als
I am active only here at SO actually.
no, I didn't... it had all three, but I think Alexandrescu was a bit sleepy. I may be misremembering, though. HS is probably the most energetic one on a personal level, but they're all brilliant. I even bought Scott Meyer's C++11 ebook :-)
SO is by far the most amazing community on the internet I can think of -- not that I know a huge number, but I've met a good amount of far worse ones.
Als
Als
17:13
Oh yes I have the Meyers book...Haven't yet been able to read it though
:(
I learned from it that pair, tuple and array all have the same interface.
Als
Als
You finished it already? :O
It's mainly slides, so you can get through pretty fast. I skipped the futures/async/thread bit, because I want to read that in detail. Apart from that I'm almost through...
Tuple always comes up when I misspell true
@KianMayne What who? :-)
Oh, you misspell true as tuple?
17:15
Fixed
Als
Als
I am a slow reader....sigh.
what was broken?
Als
Als
geez I am just bored asking what is broken and what needs fixing here in SO :P
@Als I think Kian's announcement of her misspelling was itself misspelled.
17:16
(Sorry, his or her? I'm bad at recognizing names.)
Sorry :-)
Als
Als
haha
It's a rare name
Als
Als
@KianMayne: Is a she!
Hehe. On any trip to Wales I'd always make sure to see people in person before addressing them :-)
I have only met one female coder and they were more focused on IT and Network systems...
17:17
5
Q: How do you cope with signed char -> int issues with standard library?

MordachaiThis is a really long-standing issue in my work, that I realize I still don't have a good solution to... C naively defined all of its character test functions for an int: int isspace(int ch); But char's are actually signed, and 8 bits wide**. And these functions have been the logical templat...

Can someone jump in on the comments here please? @MooingDuck claims UTF-32 is always fixed width, but that's not true is it? Not with surrogate pairs, accents etc. I'm not familiar enough with Unicode encodings to speak intelligently about it.
Als
Als
One female coder in SO? or in real life?
Well, the gender stereotyping is unfortunately entirely spot on in my experience when it comes to C++, and especially C++11.
I mean, please do show me one female C++11 enthusiast, and I will gladly award +100 rep
(Whoops, did I just promise that? fixed)
Als
Als
@KerrekSB: I thought I know one! I will need to dig in to find her out though!
geez you reduced the bounty
@Als No, nonsense! The chat Is Forever :-)
Als
Als
No females here though
17:20
OK, we can talk about the amount, but if you can get your object-oriented lady to post on SO, meaningfully on topic for C++11, I will strive to deliver on the promise.
Als
Als
@KerrekSB: Not my object oriented lady but yes I have seen her posting meaningful posts.
perhaps it was in C++03 days though
@Als Real life
@Praetorian UTF-32 always uses 4 bytes per codepoint. However, sometimes a single codepoint is not enough to represent a "character" (as is the case with combining characters).
@Als Very interesting. Well, we can keep it in mind.
What else is new...
Als
Als
@KianMayne: Huh, I have seen a lot of those.
17:22
@Praetorian UTF-32 is fixed width.
@Als As many as males?
Als
Als
@KianMayne: Yes!
Oh do you mean networking ladies
@Als My fundamental motto is always "Text is difficult".
Als
Als
Programming ladies
17:24
Who programs ladies?
Als
Als
though quantity does not mean quality always
@RMartinhoFernandes: @KianMayne has not seen any female programmers in real life....sorry soul..
I have one female friend interested in SQL. And one other who's an expert with netcdf. But I believe that's about the limit... though I also don't know a huge amount of programming male friends (though among those I do, one is at Google working on Clang, and one is at Facebook).
Als
Als
@KerrekSB: And where are you? :)
Oh, speaking of Google, these chat sessions themselves are stored at Google forever!
Als
Als
You may pass that one without hesitation
17:25
@Als Nowhere, unfortunately :-)
@KerrekSB But what about the combining character case that @RMartinhoFernandes just mentioned? Doesn't that make it not fixed width?
Depends on what you're doing.
@Praetorian As I said, "text is difficult".
Als
Als
@KerrekSB: You are a student?
But then again the only programmers are either 4 people in their mid/late-20s, 2 in their thirties and on in their forties
17:26
The very concept of a "textual character" is non-trivial.
Text is difficult, numbers are difficult, time is difficult. Mankind sucks.
3
@RMartinhoFernandes The person asking the question is trying to determine character traits, like isspace for instance
Oh and like one guy/a load of gamers who think they can program
@Als No, I'm past that, I'm in research. I do program, but not "officially".
@RMartinhoFernandes You get a star for that. So true!
Als
Als
17:27
@KerrekSB: My bad. So yet another genius amongst us.
@Praetorian Well then you can definitely treat it as fixed-width.
But really the most they can do is open up a command prompt window when it's restricted by GP (not that they know what group policy is or what a command line can be used for)
@Praetorian If you want to do proper text processing, you won't get around a full-blown library, and then there's no point worrying about the byte representation. But as far as the encoding goes, codepoints are the basic unit, and with respect to those, UTF32 is fixed-width.
@Als Well, I wouldn't say that... we all carve out our little niches I guess...
Als
Als
Ahem Modesty....@KerrekSB for MOD~ :P
I've only met one non-muggle female.
17:30
Something like "is it a space" can quite possibly be answered on a codepoint level. But do you count "NON-BREAKING SPACE" as well?
@RMartinhoFernandes Haha - I didn't know "muggle" is now "our" word, too :-)
I never read or watched Harry Potter, but I like the metaphor.
@KerrekSB Ok, I see what you're saying. I was thinking of it as variable width because of the fact that 2 adjacent code points may need to be considered together for correctly processing the string.
Als
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: I tried watching it once but it all felt very kiddish.
@Als That's what I thought too, but only the first 3 books are. Things start getting pretty dark and not kid-like after that
@Praetorian That all depends on what you mean by "processing".
Als
Als
17:34
@Praetorian: If there is no sex involved then its not for me :P
I'd say, as far as you can in standard C++, the best you can do is get an internal UTF32 representation of any string material that comes up. Once you have that, you pass it on to a specialized library.
@Als :) That's a good rule to live by
@Als Oh, but there is! But it's probably too much for you.
Als
Als
where is @TonyTheLion! summon him someone
@RMartinhoFernandes: In Harry Potter?
Yes, I'm digging up links. Gimme a sec.
17:36
@Praetorian So does that question still need input? I feel this has been done to death...
Damn slow Internets.
Als
Als
my internetz is killing me
and my lappy is 512MB ram!
Ow.
I'm complaining about my 2 gigs.
Als
Als
Thats luxury!
17:38
@KerrekSB I don't think either of the two answers are good enough. Neither answers both the questions posted by the OP
Grep for "goat"
I got 4 GB RAM :D
Als
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Dumbledore is gay??!!!
No, that's not the bad part.
17:39
The goats.
Read the part about the goats.
Als
Als
wtf gives me 502 Bad gateway
I hate the keys on keyboards that have metal hooks -.-
Q: In the Goblet of Fire Dumbledore said his brother was prosecuted for practicing inappropriate charms [JKR buries her head, to laughter] on a goat; what were the inappropriate charms he was practicing on that goat?

JKR: How old are you?

Eight.

JKR: I think that he was trying to make a goat that was easy to keep clean [laughter], curly horns. That's a joke that works on a couple of levels. I really like Aberforth and his goats. But you know Aberforth having this strange fondness for goats if you've read book seven, came in really useful to Harry, later on, because a goat, a stag, you kn
Did you hear about that 12 year old kid with learning difficulties that raped his teacher and stole her car?
He has life
Quoted for you.
17:43
wut?
why was I summoned?
Als
Als
oh here he is---->@TonyTheLion
because we were talking of sex
Als
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Uhm...thanks... bestiality eh.
I was studying function composition in C++, sex was not on my mind
Als
Als
17:44
@KianMayne: huh
Life sentence?
Als
Als
learning difficulties.....in learning what?
I don't know
But I just thought it was weird how he was 12, and she was a teacher in her 20s and he'd planned it all out
@TonyTheLion Function composition? With boost::bind?
no, not necessarily
this is what I was reading
it relates to the function composition used in Expression Templates
17:51
@Praetorian Ugh, now I hacked up a rant which may not even be an answer... well, let's see if the OP is still confused.
@RMartinhoFernandes Where on earth did you find that? :-)
@TonyTheLion ooh, Haskell :)
heheh :)
14 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Als http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/10/20/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-hall-reveals-dumbledore-is-gay-neville-marries-hannah-abbott-and-scores-more
Here.
Als
Als
The link doesn't open for me and gives me 502
Works fine for me.
17:56
@RMartinhoFernandes Neat. Is Grindelwald the forrester? I only saw the first four films.
What was his deal?
@KerrekSB I have no idea what you're talking about :)
25 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I never read or watched Harry Potter, but I like the metaphor.
No he was a friend of dumbledore's
and they had a fight and that's how dumbledore's sister died
Als
Als
his gay friend as it seems
:P
and he looked for the elder wand
17:58
@KerrekSB Grindelwald is Dumbledore's wizard friend. The one JK Rowling later on told everyone were gay lovers
and I think that's what the fight was about
@Praetorian Oh OK. I just skipped down in the interview and it said something about "what Grindelwald turned out to be". But perhaps I don't really care :-S I only remember the forester from the first film, and he was sort of cool.
@KerrekSB I think your answer is the most complete one on that page
Xeo
Xeo
throw high_five();
I'm being ignored. :(
Hey Xeo! :D
18:12
hi
Hello!
Xeo is ignoring us back.
what's the opposite of std::ref? I.e. something that removes references always
I don't think there's one in the standard.
Luc calls it val().
18:22
@awoodland: MSVC has std::remove_reference
@MooingDuck Not std::remove_reference.
That works on types.
std::ref is a function, not a metafunction.
std::remove_reference would work for this I think
Ell
Ell
hi guys
Ell
Ell
can anyone help me with flex++? its my first time venturing into the region
and using an example i found (mario-konrad.ch/index.php?page=20024)
i get
"calc.l", line 1: bad character: %
unknown eror processing section 1 (x3)
unrecognised '%' directive
18:25
@RMartinhoFernandes: I haven't heard of one, but I don't think it would be too hard to write either.
Ell
Ell
anyone know why the example doesnt work?
Never used flex++.
@awoodland so... ref creates a value-semantics wrapper object that holds a reference. What's the opposite... a reference to a value? Maybe & will do: int x; int & rx = x; // reference to x
sbi
sbi
@Als It worked for me, but took several minutes to load.
And I am the one complaining about the slow Internets.
18:29
@KerrekSB: I think he wants to get a value from something that may or may not be a reference
Say, you have void f(T&&) and you want to pass T x; by value.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes My Internet connection is Ok, I never felt the need to upgrade from my 3MBit. But that site was slow.
If you do f(x) it passes by reference.
You need a T val(T&&) function to force it.
template<typename T> typename std::decay<T>::type val(T&& t) { return std::forward<T>(t); } is a good enough implementation.
Damn, I keep forgetting the damn std::decay.
18:31
@RMartinhoFernandes Still returns a reference!
sbi
sbi
55 mins ago, by Als
and my lappy is 512MB ram!
55 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'm complaining about my 2 gigs.
53 mins ago, by user411102
I got 4 GB RAM :D
To keep with the trend, I double that again.
But I quadrupled it!
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes D'oh, sorry, was immersed in playing. :)
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes We skipped the 1GB step, because it was so obvious. Besides, the trend was still upwards, and the last one was a doubling.
sbi
sbi
18:34
@Xeo I thought girls don't play computer games? Gets out asbestos coat.
Speaking of "Right", the Alien prequel has a title and expected release date!
Xeo
Xeo
Anyone care to help me close this one?
sbi
sbi
@Xeo CTRL+W in my browser.
Xeo
Xeo
:P
sbi
sbi
Wow. I can't believe this. My answer on Programmers is still getting several upvotes per hour.
18:37
is any of you guys using eclipse
?
sbi
sbi
@StackedCrooked I'm not opposed to a good Java bashing at all (and there's a lot it deserves bashing for), but without context (I was too lazy to look) that "Fuck Java" message indeed sound like the whining of a boy about his little brother being so much more successful, shiny, and beloved than himself.
@RMartinhoFernandes Where did we speak of "Right" and what's that news about an "Alien" prequel?
9 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Right.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. I thought there's a movie "Right", but now I get the reference. :)
I even seem to remember that you once remembered that I had referred to that when I had forgotten I had.
See, I'm getting better at this.
:)
Prometheus is an upcoming science fiction film directed by Ridley Scott and starring Noomi Rapace, Charlize Theron, Michael Fassbender, Guy Pearce, and Idris Elba. The film was originally intended as a direct prequel to the 1979 science fiction horror film Alien. However, it was revealed the events of the film will not precede any of the previously established characters or story lines from the Alien franchise. Filming began in March 2011, and Prometheus is scheduled for release on June 8, 2012 through 20th Century Fox. Production Development The film was first reported in mid-2009 as ...
It's not actually a direct prequel as originally planned, but it's a movie set in the same universe.
sbi
sbi
Oh. Goes off reading.
18:46
I like the story of Prometheus
The titan?
I'm really hoping Ridley Scott will make me finally forget Alien: Resurrection.
Yeah the titan
So I have a set of points objects with an x and y coordinate and want to put them in a grid. (in 2d) What would be the data structure of choice using the STL?
My brain seems to lag today :(
@Nils std::pair<int,int>
no i mean to organize the point objects?
just nested vectors?
18:53
yes, vector are cool
What are you going to do with the objects?
From one bucket I also want to access the neighboring buckets, if I just use a linear array it is a mess.
Well I could create a wrapper class.
@Nils: boost has wrapper classes for that
boooooost
humm I don't like boost for every trivial thing
If it's trivial, do it yourself :)
19:02
is it ok to take help from others for my project on which I'm working?
Machine Learning FTW! #Stanford researchers train computers to assess breast cancer images http://bit.ly/ucxyBO #aiclass #mlclass
@user411102 yes
@user411102 Is it a school project?
@RMartinhoFernandes no
@user411102 : Hopefully, you're not asking other to do it for you
19:04
@vivek of-course not :)
Well, ask away.
STL says that there's a compiler error when you use make_pair with explicit template arguments (new in VC10), and that the standard demands it. Does anyone have an idea what that error is?
Really?
Sure you're not confusing something?
Yeah. Something to do with forwarding and type deduction...
I can rewatch and check
Ah, VC11
@KerrekSB I can't see why this would be true in the general case. But I wouldn't be surprised that it would fail in specific cases.
19:09
Whats a forwarding function?
@KerrekSB template <class T1, class T2> pair<V1, V2> make_pair(T1&& x, T2&& y); -> V1 , V2 , another bug?
The specification of std::make_pair doesn't leave a lot for the imagination.
@vivek It's a function that just passes along its arguments unchanged to another.
oh, that's simple
make_pair forwards to the constructor of pair.
19:11
@RMartinhoFernandes where does those V1 and V2 came from (from my last reply) ?
I suppose the change from T1 to T1&& comes with C++11? And the VC11 guys are just catching up now?
> where V1 and V2 are determined as follows: Let Ui be decay<Ti>::type for each Ti. Then each Vi is X& if Ui equals reference_wrapper<X>, otherwise Vi is Ui.
@KerrekSB But of course! There was no T1&& before.
@user411102 Does that help?
@RMartinhoFernandes aah
@RMartinhoFernandes yes , thanks
Now I forgot what I was about to do. I hate when this happens.
Xeo
Xeo
You wanted to make me a sammich. I'm sure.
19:19
That's actually a good idea. And since I can't sent it over the Internets, I'll eat it myself.
AFK.
19:36
Does anyone now how to write subscripts in MS Powerpoint ?
I'm sure there's a button for it.
Probably hidden by default.
I can't find it :(
There's a small downwards arrow at the end of the formatting toolbar that lets you pick which buttons are visible.
this is so frustating
Having trouble with code blocks. Anyone know why it wouldn't set up a pseudo tty?
19:38
Oh if it's Powerpoint 2010 with that fancy new interface, I have no freaking idea how to do it.
indeed it is 2010
Xeo
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes :|
Use LaTeX. Or S5. Who needs PowerPoint.
and I have 2 presentations tomorrow
19:40
Oh the subscript button
yea, what's S5?
I can help
S5: A Simple Standards-Based Slide Show System
@KianMayne yes
Let me load up pp
You have Powerpoint installed?
Yeah...
What's surprising?
sbi
sbi
:)
@KianMayne Nothing, I'm being silly.
@CatPlusPlus In college I used beamer.
@RMartinhoFernandes That's the LaTeX part.
keynote
@vivek Right click the ribbon, click customise the ribbon
Then choose All Commands
Scroll down to Subscript/Superscript
19:42
Then install TeXLive.
sbi
sbi
Here's a lovely bug report, which involves the @Cat: lkml.org/lkml/2011/11/3/110
@KianMayne Thank you Kian
> Then suddenly the cat shifted his position and there was a kernel panic involving input handling.
Then add a new group then boom
sbi
sbi
19:43
:)
@vivek No problem
WTF is a cat?
Wow, I actually asked that.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Forget it. It's nothing a robot would appreciate.
The cat (Felis catus), also known as the domestic cat or housecat to distinguish it from other felids and felines, is a small, usually furry, domesticated, carnivorous mammal that is valued by humans for its companionship and for its ability to hunt vermin and household pests. Cats have been associated with humans for at least 9,500 years, and are currently the most popular pet in the world. Owing to their close association with humans, cats are now found almost everywhere in the world. Cats are similar in anatomy to the other felids, with strong, flexible bodies, quick reflexes, shar...
No really, I need to know.
sbi
sbi
19:45
@RMartinhoFernandes A cat is a member of one of the three groups of mammal predators on this planet.
Oh, it's really about a feline?
I'm... flabbergasted.
Wtf is flabbergasted ?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Did you really think Cat is a programming language? The predecessor of Cat++, maybe?
@vivek "Flabbergasted" is when you react the way you reacted when you didn't understand "flabbergasted".
@vivek Not an animal.
:P
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Why??
19:48
> However, it is the first time I've seen documented proof that a cat
sucessfully fuzzed an input device into a panic.
@sbi I thought "cat" was slang for some kind of device.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah. A "cat" is what you use for your computer if you don't like to use a mouse.
Then I realized what actually happened.
Anyone here?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, he actually linked to pictures with an actual cat! What's happened to your attention module?
@Moshe No, nobody here. We're all gone.
19:49
Anyone know why code blocks would fail to set up a pseudo tty?
@Moshe It's an IDE
I don't even know what a pseudo tty is.
@vivek - Sorry, knew that. I have to stop over editing.
sbi
sbi
@Moshe I'm sure there's someone who would know that. At a seminar I once met one of the developers. I suppose he would know.
@sbi Oh, I didn't see those.
sbi
sbi
19:51
@RMartinhoFernandes Hence my question.
My friend was getting an error message that CodeBlocks "could not open a new pseudo tty".
sbi
sbi
@Moshe That smells suspiciously like something went wrong.
I think it couldn't open a new pseudo tty.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes That's like a tty, only it isn't a real one. I suppose.
@Moshe I guess, it means a new terminal window could not be opened
19:53
@CatPlusPlus Right, but how would that be fixable?
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus That's because, as a feline, you lack fingers.
@CatPlusPlus +1
@sbi But the kernel panics in his presence.
As a feline, I should be worshipped.
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Maybe the kernel is a rodent?
19:54
@Moshe Have you tried turning it off and on again?
@sbi I heard it was a single stone.
@CatPlusPlus Good question. We're planning to meet up at 3:30 to try and sort it out.
sbi
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, and I'm the son of Ra.
Who's your mother?
Some woman from Abydos.
sbi
sbi
19:57
You know, few things are as rewarding as being among geeks who catch even the strangest references one drops. (I thought sex might be as rewarding, but then even @Tony prefers functional composition nowadays.)
Anyone here on a Mac?
0
Q: Recover a file after hitting "replace" in copy dialog?

MosheSomeone I know copied a file into a directory over another one and hit "replace" accidentally. Is there any way to recover the older version of the file on Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.8?

@sbi That was a Stargate reference?
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I doubt it. (What is Stargate?)
Ha! I bet the @Cat's reply was a Stargate reference.
sbi
sbi
@Moshe You're not on a Mac here, you're in the C++ room. I thought I'd better mention that upfront.

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