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11:00 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum that depends heavily on who does the tracking though
 
For example, if you have a personal transportation card you use to pay for bus rides it can't be stolen and used by someone else - but your whereabouts can be tracked. Some people will gladly make that sacrifice and others don't.
@jalf yes, it most definitely does - but there is usually room for abuse, especially in the "it's the government" case.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum or it could be designed so that this tracking data is used for that purpose and nothing else
@BenjaminGruenbaum there's a big difference between "it could, in theory, be abused by some party gaining access to the data", and "we collect data to enable others to abuse it in exchange for money"
 
So far as I know, SO manages to keep track of voting data without keeping track of who voted for who. Things like that can be done (I think).
 
they do keep track of who voted for who.
 
Of course they track who voted for who
 
11:02 AM
that's how sockpuppets and other voting frauds are eliminated.
 
@jalf only in the end result, it is very hard to draw the line. What if that someone is the partly government owned bus company?
 
There's no other reliable way of enforcing one vote per account
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Who cares? It's my money and my data.
 
@anthropomorphic they could, yeah, and in a lot o cases, that would be a sensible way to collect data (although as others mentioned, for SO specifically, it's not a viable option)
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure, but I object to the implication that "it is hard to draw the line" -> "we should not attempt to draw a line"
 
I know that SO keeps track of who voted for who, but I also thought that it was basically impossible to, given a question or answer, find out who voted for or against it.
 
11:04 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum government owned entities tend to have fairly strict data collection rules. They are not private companies which collect everything the can because "it might be worth money"
 
without doing an exhaustive search of the whole userbase
 
@anthropomorphic it's impossible for us, yeah. Not for someone with access to their database
 
@jalf oh, I don't disagree. We most certainly should draw a line and the trend of people becoming the product of services rather than customers is very dangerous. I was merely replying to @Cat 's no benefit.
 
personally, what bugs me more is the US attitude that they own the Internet and all data on it.
I'd be more relaxed about my personal data if I didn't think it could be ordered by a US warrant for my international data.
 
@Puppy what bugs me is European authorities (at least Danish ones, but I'm sure it's the same in the rest of Europe) going "oh, don't worry, we can trust American companies with our data! Stop such a conspiracy theorist, there's no way the US government would demand the data held by these companies"
 
11:06 AM
@jalf YMMV but I've seen databases containing personal information that the government was supposed to be confidential here leak more than once.
 
well, over here our government is playing it's part in PRISM and whatnot so it's hard to argue that it would be especially safe in the UK.
 
Is open source the answer? Could we have an open source Google that did much of what Google does, but with public accountability?
 
lol no.
 
I agree the government are less 'greedy' about it, but they're as negligent.
 
the money Google makes from selling your personal data is the money they use to hire the programmers who create their services.
no targetted ads -> no revenue -> no programmers.
 
11:07 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum sure, me too. I'm not saying they're competent. Just pointing out that they're usually not allowed to just collect everything they can and do whatever they please with it
 
@Puppy could it be a government entity? One with a budget to hire programmers, but no objective other than to perform an important public service?
 
an entity of what government?
 
Yeah governments have so much interest in privacy
 
Oh right. International forum here.
 
Esp US
 
11:10 AM
I'm thinking US government, but it really doesn't matter.
 
the only people I trust less with my data than Google is the government.
and the US government would be even worse.
they're the poster child of collecting everything just in case.
and they're the ones dickwaving over them trying to own the Internet, too.
 
But the thing about the government is that not all divisions behave the same way, and they often have different objectives. For instance, in the US, the NSA is evil, but the public school system is pretty benign. If you set up the charter properly you can create a division of government that will not abuse the information it collects.
 
the only reason the public school system is benign is because the NSA has nothing to gain by infiltrating it.
and personally, I think that the suggestion that it's benign is an unwarranted assumption.
my experience of schooling here is that it was very much not benign at all and what I've seen of US schooling makes me feel like it's very definitely the exact opposite of benign.
 
I have no idea how to win the war with the NSA. Right now my strategy is "get good at programming" -> "get hired by the NSA". If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Well, it was just an idea. Probably a bad one. I'm glad I know what you think about it.
 
you can always ditch the internet & become a bush person
2
 
11:22 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The answer is all errors [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
2
 
> bush person
 
Ell
we shouldn't be afraid of the government
they are supposed to work for us
 
they don't
 
:lol:
 
they work for you as much as any other person works for you
 
11:26 AM
that's why we vote in the other guy, if there is another guy who's better
 
Ell
@Puppy I know :/
but let's not go into my political views
 
@anthropomorphic wat
"I have no idea how to win the war with NSA so I'll help them"
 
If you can't beat em ensure you're not the one getting beaten
 
... what war with the NSA
 
Yeah, fuck principles, who needs them
 
11:32 AM
@anthropomorphic dumbest thing I've heard today.
 
y'all need to relax
there's no war with the NSA happening
go back home
 
@CatPlusPlus Exactly.
 
11:46 AM
I fink I burned mah tongue
 
@Puppy don't put out cigarettes on it
 
ewww cigarettes
you can trust that I've never voluntarily been within a hundred metres of one
 
except when I'm home, I'm always within 10 meters of one
 
for 3 years now I haven't been
 
@AlexM. you used to smoke?
 
11:54 AM
nope
my dad is a smoker
and I haven't been living with my parents for 3 years now
I personally hate smoke :(
 
Cigarettes are dumb
 
meh
 
cigarettes are as dumb as alcohol is
 
No, they're dumber
 
once you actually are a smoker, there's nothing different about smoking than drinking or overeating.
they all use the same addiction pathways.
 
user3010322
12:00 PM
Except one puts a massive hole in your lungs after a while, one destroys your liver, and the other makes you fat.
 
the only difference between smoking and drinking or overeating is that there's no "safe" level you could reasonably decide to want to do, and then you overextend or something and get hooked unintentionally.
 
fuck C++. because it doesn't define if string::npos is -1 or ~0u, so I can't do stuff like min(0, str.find('x'))
 
it's just "Pay to die earlier" right from the very beginning.
@ThePhD You make it sound like being fat isn't a very serious medical problem.
 
I'm pretty sure with alcohol you can choose consumption with moderation
 
some people can.
IME many people cannot.
 
12:01 PM
whereas with cigarettes... uh, well I've never seen someone smoke a cigarette per week only
 
same with cigarettes really
 
user3010322
Cigarettes are engineered to be addicting.
 
@Jefffrey There's no moderate smoking level... all levels of smoking that are not "None" are "Pay to die sooner".
 
I drink like a can or two of beers per week
last time I went to have a meal with my parents my dad finished 4 cigars one after the other
 
@Puppy same with alcohol
 
12:02 PM
until I told him to stop
 
@Jefffrey Not true. You can drink a small amount of alcohol and suffer no negative consequences at all.
but every cigarette you ever smoke increases your chances of lung cancer and similar hilarities.
you can't smoke one cigarette and walk away as if you never smoked it.
 
you can smoke small amount of cigarettes and don't suffer of any consequences
 
you might not immediately notice them.
but you definitely do.
 
@Puppy you might not immediately notice them
 
@Jefffrey And scientific studies confirm that that's because they don't exist.
 
12:04 PM
:lol:
 
whereas scientific studies confirm that you don't notice the consequences of smoking right away because they just take longer to appear.
 
user3010322
A small amount of alcohol, IIRC, can actually be healthy for you.
 
yep.
 
Ell
good for the heart
 
user3010322
I can't imagine a small amount of daily smoking to be anything.
 
12:05 PM
small amount of cigarettes actually fights some throat infections
 
Ell
apparently small amounts of alcohol helps with ED. A large amount hinders :P
 
Ok, so I have a personal life dilemma
 
ED?
 
Ell
erectile dysfunction :P
 
pity that I spend about one week a year with a throat infection, if that.
 
user3010322
12:06 PM
@Jefffrey That's because smoking kills your throat cells. ... Immediately.
 
I have a family friend who thinks they're the smartest person in the world, literally. That person is sure that given the same task and the same amount of time they would outperform anyone. For example, they are sure they're amazing at algorithmics. OTOH they're actually quite bad. What do?
 
user3010322
So the infected cilia are dead.
 
user3010322
So that helps with your throat infection, I guess.
 
I mean, don't get me wrong here, once you start smoking then it is an addiction and you can't just up and choose to stop.
but nor does that mean that you should pretend that it's a good thing or that everything's fine.
 
@ThePhD lolno
 
user3010322
12:07 PM
lolyes
 
@Puppy you really can
 
user3010322
Cigarette tar is immediately toxic and destroys cilia cells in your throat.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Leave it. They'll find out the truth soon enough.
 
I did
 
there are a lot of misconceptions being thrown around
 
12:08 PM
even if you did, that bears no evidence on what other people can or cannot do.
 
._.
 
...
 
user3010322
.-.
 
@ThePhD Tar isn't what kills you. It's the carcinogens in the tobacco.
 
Ell
If people want to smoke, let them smoke
 
12:08 PM
@Puppy "I'm probably smarter than anyone ever" "What're you good at at computers, you're not the best programmer" "I'm good at algorithmics with graphs" "well... define a graph?" silence followed by intuitive kind of mumbu jumbo :/ I don't think they will.
 
A lot of things cause tar.
 
Ell
If people want to drink, let them drink
 
besides, personally I find it hard to believe that "Pay to die sooner" is a choice that any sane person would make.
@BenjaminGruenbaum "intuitive" certainly does not mean bad or wrong. Intuitive thinkers are some of the most powerful.
 
@Jefffrey After a large amount of time of not smoking, yes.
 
@Puppy You have such a close mind.
 
Ell
12:09 PM
@Puppy they aren't paying to die sooner
 
The effects of smoking aren't as permanent as puppy mentions.
 
Ell
they're paying to enjoy the taste of smoking/social smoking
 
@Puppy it was completely wrong.
 
Ell
dying earlier is just a side effect
 
@Puppy Not true.
@Puppy Yes, you can.
 
12:10 PM
@Puppy As in, not even close to anything that has to do with graphs. I gave that person a question that should take a decent programmer one to three minutes, after an hour I gave them help (basically - the answer) at which point they proclaimed "solving it" and touted doing well -_-
 
@Ell A pretty serious side effect that clearly outweighs benefits.
 
Ell
@Puppy To you maybe
Not to everyone
 
@Rapptz something like after 5 years you have mostly restored all your organs; after 10 it's like you have never smoked
 
hence my suggestion that the sanity of those people should be brought into question.
 
Yeah I don't know the numbers off the top of my head.
But what Puppy said is definitely wrong.
 
user3010322
12:11 PM
The regenerative qualities of the human body keep things like overeating, excessive drinking, and regular smoking from killing you or leaving permanent damage.
 
overeating kills a huge number of people.
as does excessive drinking and regular smoking.
 
Ell
right
but it's their choice to eat and drink so who cares?
 
So does not getting exercise.
 
Ell
It's not our job to stop people from doing what they want just because it affects them adversely
 
I'd guess obesity actually causes more damage
 
12:12 PM
well, eating and drinking isn't really a choice.
take it from the guy who had to cut eating out of his life.
 
@Abyx std::string::npos is explicitly defined as static_cast<size_type>(-1).
 
@Ell I take it you're not religious?
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum Correct
 
@Rapptz and size_type is not defined to be unsigned or not.
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum Why do you ask? :)
 
12:13 PM
size_type is defined to be size_t.
 
@Ell it's just not something someone religious would usually say - take it as a compliment :D
 
@Rapptz guaranteed?
 
@Jefffrey Probably does. Ever since they introduced the gruesome packaging here and many of the smoking restrictions, the number of smokers has dropped a lot, and the incidence of obesity (unfortunately including myself...) is increasing rapidly.
 
Ell
@BenjaminGruenbaum haha, thank you :P
 
@Jefffrey when you track down the definitions, you end up with size_t
 
12:14 PM
@Rapptz nope, it's allocator_traits<Allocator>::size_type
 
iirc we did it in this room months ago
 
I see
 
@Ell Not our job but things people do to themselves often affects even you. Like the overeating and drinking and smoking affects state budgets of countries like UK or the Czech Republic because of the treatments given to the sick from smoking, overeating and drinking. Leaving people to themselves is often not the best option.
 
Also, intercalate is my new bff
 
ah, which is required to be unsigned
 
12:16 PM
@Abyx For std::allocator, that's size_t.
 
Ell
@VáclavZeman that's a whole other topic I guess
 
> Table 28 — Allocator requirements
> X::size_type unsigned integer type
 
@VáclavZeman I'd argue that it's parents more generally who definitely have an obligation.
 
Ell
But in my ideal situation, someone's actions unto themselves shouldn't affect other people
 
ok, so npos is unsigned. @Rapptz thanks
 
12:17 PM
@VáclavZeman it's quite easy to solve though - if you give people all the right tools they'll make good decisions at least some of the time. You can let people smoke if they want but educate them it's bad to do so.
 
@Ell The world just ain't that simple.
 
yeah npos is unsigned and equal to -1.
 
Educate smoking is harmful, explain why instead of just calling it "harmful", and most people will not smoke.
 
Ell
@Puppy It should be. And it could be
 
Just like most people don't do cocaine.
 
12:17 PM
@Ell No, it really can't be.
 
Ell
@Puppy Let's agree to disagree :)
 
every human being has parts of their lives that depend on others.
being a child is the most obvious time.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That is naive POV. People are not all that rational and logical.
 
if your parents are smokers and die of lung cancer, that's going to permanently negatively affect your life.
 
As a smoker, cigarettes actually taste disgusting
 
12:18 PM
@VáclavZeman they are, just not from your point of view
 
@VáclavZeman they don't have to be rational or logical to benefit from education.
 
The only reason I ever have a smoke is because habit
bad habits be dying hard
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure they do. Otherwise you are using the word wrong and you mean brainwashing instead.
 
@TonyTheLion Personally I'm glad to have the good fortune to find myself compelled to pay to die sooner for something that at least tastes nice :P
 
12:19 PM
they only reason I've ever smoked is because every friend of mine did and because it didn't cost me money
 
@Puppy ...scotch?
 
@Jefffrey oh yea, scrounging cigs of other people is the best thing ever :P
 
I've actually found out people are willing to give you cigarettes for free as long as you smoke with them
 
pretty much
 
they're probably lonely
you should give them a hug
 
12:21 PM
I'm lonely too
 
I think I've bought something like 5% of the total cigarettes I've smoked
 
I feel bad after taking too many off people, then I'll buy myself a packet
smoke it in two days and feel terrible for having smoked so much
 
And I did buy some tobacco every once in a while just to have a precedence to refer to in case someone got angry
 
A lot of people here smoke, but few smoke cigarettes.
 
From the fags I have bought, I have skokem like 10 %.
 
12:22 PM
s/skokem/smoked?
 
Also I hate non-rolled cigarettes
they are so heavy
 
I can't roll for shit
hence why I don't do rolies
 
@puppy Yes, typing on phone sucks.
 
also, ITT: Smokers are cheapskate scroungers. :P
 
@TonyTheLion "rolies" cost much less as well :D
 
12:23 PM
@Jefffrey true
When I do buy a pack, I get the cheaper shitty brand ones
 
and you can pair them with very thin skins
 
which are lighter than the Camel Blue I used to get
 
also you tend to roll shorter and smaller cigarettes
 
If I don't buy a pack, I generally don't feel like smoking
so the trick for me is to not get tempted into buying cigs
 
Ell
I'm terrible at rolling
 
12:25 PM
yeah
I used to have no problem in not smoking for a week
 
anyone who smokes should come to Australia, the price of cigarettes alone will make you not want to smoke
 
I've only ever smoked when I was out with friends
 
@Jefffrey And now you have to have a pack each day? :)
 
and now I've quit
:D
 
Since quitting for over a year, I can have one cigarette in a week and then just not have any, or I can just not have any at all
 
12:27 PM
which makes me very less depressed and gives me much more energy
 
smoking is also an expensive habit
I would be significantly poorer if I smoked again
 
12:41 PM
You should smoke again.
 
Think of the awesome life story that'd make.
 
12:57 PM
smoking is bad for health
but then again so is excessive drinking
 
I think we already discussed that
I gotta clean up this apartment and just the thought annoys me :(
 
user3010322
Quit being a slob and clean it up. D:<
 
I ordered a pizza to make me feel better
hmph
 
Do you only eat pizza? D:
 
I haven't eaten a pizza in a week :D
but yeah usually during sundays I order a pizza
 
1:08 PM
@AlexM. you can pay people to do that for you.
 
I need to cut down on pizza & buffets ... & alcohol
 
aww Catch is just great
TEST_CASE("split file ext")
{
    std::array<std::string, 3>  test_cases[] = {
        {"name.ext", "name", "ext"},
        {"pa.th/na.me.ext", "pa.th/na.me", "ext"},
        {"pa.th\\na.me.ext", "pa.th\\na.me", "ext"},
        {"name", "name", ""},
        {"pa.th/name", "pa.th/name", ""},
        {"name.", "name.", ""},
    };
    for (auto&& test : test_cases)
    {
        std::string prefix, ext;
        INFO("path: " << test[0]);
        patch::split_file_ext(test[0], prefix, ext);
        CHECK(prefix == test[1]);
 
boost::filesystem not enough for ya?
 
@Abyx -1 reinventing boost
 
but it's so fat =( 320Kb
 
1:11 PM
oh noes!
 
@Puppy no
 
ERMAHGERD KILERBERTS
 
user3010322
If I am forced to link it, I die.
 
I use only header-only boost
because.
 
@Abyx so will yours be once you actually deal with all the corner cases
 
1:13 PM
Boost.Filesystem is actually well-tested instead of essentially untested.
and it's 320kb (oh noes!) for a reason.
 
@Mgetz I gonna reimplement it, and I hope mine will be <1KLOC
 
@Abyx pardon me as I drain the tea I just chuckle snorted from my keyboard
3
 
@Mgetz how rude
 
@Abyx if accurate is rude then I make no apologies. The filesystem v3 spec is the way it is for a very good reason. The fact that the standards committee is essentially adopting it without changes speaks to that.
 
user3010322
I thought boost.filesystem required me to link a library?
 
1:19 PM
@ThePhD it does for certain features, there was bug for awhile where it always did
now I need to find a gtkmm build for windows using vs2013
 
I didn't know boost.test existed
is there anything boost doesn't do
 
@AlexM. it does not have a "Is computer on fire" environment flag like BeOS allegedly did/does
 
welp after some thought I reduced it to only those cases
    std::array<std::string, 3>  test_cases[] = {
        {"name.ext", "name", "ext"},
        {"name", "name", ""},
        {"name.", "name.", ""},
    };
 
@AlexM. graphics
 
so... what if I'd use boost.filesystem?
 
1:27 PM
I found one of these for $220 in Romania
I wonder how well it would handle Steam streaming and N64/SNES/PSX emulation
sure it's an atom but it's a dual core with 4 threads and PSX is kinda old
the romanian model comes with a dedicated GT 610
 
Pretty sure that is overkill for emulating
i mean, iirc there were emulators for N64 when single cores were still prevalent
 
> I'm always worried I'm not smart enough to have imposter syndrome.
7
 
@Borgleader yeah but then I saw a PSX emulator lag on my i5 2400 with integrated video :D
I was using maxed out plugin settings though
which weren't exactly PSX faithful
 
@AlexM. my main issue with atom is that broadwell NUCs are coming soon... and they are only going to cost $100 more
 
IIRC NUCs don't have dedicated video
 
1:31 PM
@AlexM. no but they don't really need it either, mind you there are non intel "NUCs" that do have dedicated video
 
meh the zotac needs me to buy separate RAM
I also need to buy an SSD/HDD
neeext
 
recently I started to use boost::system::error_code instead of exceptions and it feels great.
 
you suck.
 
gonna switch to std::error_code though
@Puppy nope.
 
most assuredly
 
1:37 PM
@StackedCrooked Meta imposter syndrome?
 
comment found on reddit :)
 
Ell
I wonder what a good format for storing documentation would be
 
Ell
I want to use xml
 
or jpeg
 
1:40 PM
.htm
.tex
.pdf
 
@Ell so you want big documentation?
 
Ell
I would usually use yaml
hmm.
 
the pizza these guys make is always so GOOD
yum
 
Ell
I will start converting a bit of cppreference to yaml and see what it looks like
@Borgleader xml isn't that big :p
 
@Jefffrey I'll have to admit, on these pizzas I never put ketchup
the taste is better without it
 
1:52 PM
PROTIP: Turn data into big data by encoding it as XML.
2
 
I tried all ketchups and all ruined it
 
why do you always remind of the shit you usually put in your pizza?
why can't you let me forget?
 
but I just told you I did not do it now!
 
that reminds me that you did do it
 
hm you're right
 
1:54 PM
in boost 1.56, boost.system can be header-only. sweet
 
I need to investigate further
maybe the other pizzas were so bad I had to use sauce to save their taste somehow
 
> cd: command not found
something went terribly wrong
 
@Abyx nice
 
Ell
@Jefffrey what are you doing? is this from a shell?
 
problem solved, it was sudo cd that didn't work
 
2:00 PM
ebola vs AIDs, what do you think will happen?
 
WW3
shit, imagine ebola being used as a weapon in WW3
 
Ell
@chmod711telkitty AIDS will win
 
@AlexM. what, flinging sweat and blood at people to infect them?
that's kind of what you'd have to do to spread it
 
I dunno
it can be spread
 
not terribly effectively.
the reality of the Ebola situation in Africa is that it's spreading because they're poor and misinformed and can't or won't quarantine themselves effectively.
 
2:07 PM
from what I understand though it spreads quickly on its own so it's only a matter of getting it in somewhere
 
@AlexM. that's not actually correct though :p
 
it wouldn't be an effective weapon against a developed country or military power.
 
it doesn't spread very well at all
 
this is hilarous ...
 
2:08 PM
the reason why Ebola's never broken out like this before is because it doesn't spread very well.
it kills most people it infects, so they don't infect others, and it's got a high requirement (physical ccontact with infected body fluids) to spread.
 
ooh
ok, scratch that then
 
user3079266
@Puppy then why did an outbreak of such magnitude happen now?
 
1 min ago, by Puppy
the reality of the Ebola situation in Africa is that it's spreading because they're poor and misinformed and can't or won't quarantine themselves effectively.
I think
 
I love David Attenborough - his documentaries are always very ... educational ...
 
@Mints97 Because Ebola never jumped species to humans before in an area that was both sufficiently underdeveloped to not implement quarantine effectively, but also close enough to urban hubs to be able to spread before wiping out everybody.
 
2:09 PM
@Mints97 because it's happening in an area where (1) bodies are generally not cleaned by professionals to whom hygiene is a big priority, and (2) because it's traditional in many of these places for families and loved ones to kiss the person who died
 
all previous Ebola outbreaks were in isolated areas, Ebola jumps in, kills everybody, and then they're all dead and can't infect anyone else.
plus there's the regional traditions issue in these areas
 
user3079266
wow, that's interesting. I never knew that stuff about ebola before.
 
You should listen to Puppy. He's an expert.
5
 
Ell
2:29 PM
I think a doc thing needs unlimited levels of nesting
 
Hi all. Is adding a _t at the end of typedefd type name considered to be a guideline?
 
@vaultah No. It's used in a few places, but almost nobody seems to really like it.
 
Right. Thanks.
 
it's shitty Hungarian notation that's shitty and deprecated and also shitty.
 
@vaultah it's also reserved for POSIX so if you don't want to have fun times with clashing with system types don't do it
 
2:45 PM
they can suck on namespaces
 
@Puppy ...except that it's not really HN (which uses prefixes, not suffixes).
 
implementation detail
it's the same principle with the same results
 
Ell
it's really not an implementation detail when the interface is an implementation :P
 
3:36 PM
You might as well say starting types with a capital letter is HN.
Any naming conventions is HN by that logic.
 
3:49 PM
depends on what you're naming them according to
but I'd probably argue that starting types with a capital letter is effectively HN, yes.
 
@Puppy I think you might like Sword Art Online. You should give it a try :)
 

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