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14:00
@Abyx Obviously they'd have to reach an agreement with the country they are currently part of
that, too, is part of democracy
considering that the Ukrainian people already threw their previous leader out for not heeding their wishes
it's fairly reasonable to think that if they had a different wish, they could still throw their leader out for not heeding it.
@jalf that country banned Russian language if you don't know. there was no way to get any agreement.
@Abyx Like we previously said, that's not really meaningful. Ukrainian isn't a meaningfully different language.
@Abyx Those two claims have nothing to do with each others. That's a strawman
@Puppy no-no. not "the Ukrainian people". just a small group of Ukrainians from Kiev and western Ukraine
14:02
@Abyx Yes, so small they completely filled the streets.
@Puppy it is very different.
yes, it is very different to see what people think when they have Russian tanks driving around in their streets, and when they don't.
@Puppy only single square, actually.
@Abyx but yes they did, and that was wrong and stupid. But how does that imply that (1) that ban will stay in place forever and can never be changed or lifted, and (2) how does it mean that "no agreement can ever be reached"?
@Puppy uhm... what tanks?
14:04
@Abyx I'm looking at the picture, and it is not a small square.
@Abyx The ones that drove into Crimea.
Euromaidan (/ˌjʊərɵmaɪˈdɑːn/; Ukrainian: Євромайдан, Yevromaidan, literally "Euro Square") was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on the night of 21 November 2013 with public protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti ("Independence Square") in Kiev, demanding closer European integration. The scope of the protests expanded, with many calls for the resignation of President Viktor Yanukovych and his government. The protests ultimately led to the 2014 Ukrainian revolution. Many protesters joined because of the violent dispersal of protesters on 30 November and "a will to change...
Revisionism, ho!
@Puppy lolwut? like how? it's a peninsula, you know
@Abyx It's called "a bridge".
@Puppy there is no bridge...
you're watching TV too much
@Abyx Man, Yanukovych must have been stupid, huh? He fled from a a small group of Ukrainians confined to a single square?
14:06
there has been such a bridge for some time now.
I wonder why he didn't just stay at home then
¬_¬ are we you going to talk like grown ups for much longer?
or rather
@jalf well he was stupid because he didn't use army to suppress them. just like current Ukrainian government do now.
@jalf they would kill him.
yes! real men use tanks to suppress democracy.
14:08
@Abyx You said there were so few of them and they were confined to one single square
how the fuck could they possibly kill him then?
Internal consistency, please!
@Puppy and real mean don't let tanks suppress democracy
@jalf oh... you know, there is a difference between "all people/whole city" like you said before, and "just some thousands of people on single square"
and yeah, a few thousands of people can do a lot.
@Abyx Not if they're confined to a single square
but they don't represent "all Ukrainian people"
Make up your mind. Either they were in a single square, or they were all over the place. If they were all over the place, then they could be a danger to an unpopular president. If they were in a single square, they could not
14:11
@jalf it's a big square.
@Abyx Yes, but the thing about squares is that there's a whole world outside them
If you don't want to be killed by people in a square, you can just not stand in the square
@jalf depends how big your square is really...
You don't fear for your life and flee from an entire country because of people in one single square wanting to kill you
"You can just not stand in the square" love it.
You just go elsewhere in the country!
14:12
@jalf again, depends how big your square is really
How the fuck do you reason that "A few thousand rioters in a single square were so much of a threat that Yanukovych had to leave Ukraine entirely"
we can all agree that the square was not Ukraine-sized
vOv not sure I can just accept that a square is that small
What? Why? How? When?
Anyway, if you are seriously arguing that the right thing to do would have been to kill all protesters, then... I think we're done here.
14:15
@TonyTheLion ... I'm finding it hard to accept a square is as small as Ukraine. Mostly silliness. Erm, I just say it and don't care about how silly it is. About three minutes ago.
well, it seems to me like the basic "Why" is "Russia couldn't accept that Ukraine could be buddies with both Russia and the EU".
such a statement slightly undermines your cries about fascism and dictators and democracy.
@jalf uhm... when did I say that?
9 mins ago, by Abyx
@jalf well he was stupid because he didn't use army to suppress them. just like current Ukrainian government do now.
oh, but wait
isn't it OK? to kill rebels using your army? it's exactly what the Democratic Government of Ukraine do now
14:18
rebels != protesters or even rioters
since when is it OK to kill anybody?
@Abyx no...
well, it's unfortunate, but it seems like people murdering each other because they can't give each other basic rights and respects seems all too common.
@TonyTheLion since we put on our ignorance hats apparently
@thecoshman good answer
14:19
reading the previous discussion, not sure if i'm in the right chat room. I can't find an answer to why aren't operator << overloaded for std containers in the standard or even in boost? seems like a very useful thing for outputting nested vector and quick diagnostics.
not that I'd really characterise it as OK
you're not in the right chat room.
@kirill_igum it's wrong room
@kirill_igum you're right, this is not the right place to ask a question.
unless you want to know which fruit tastes best in a milkshake
14:20
ah, thanks. i'm noob for chats
hint: banana
STRAWBERRY MOTHERFUCKER
straw berr y.
I go with puppy on this one
yeah, stawbs be good too
woof woof
14:21
meow
dude, Lions don't meow, they roar
you can be Tony The Housecat now
fuck, I need to get me a mother fucking blender
Will it blend?
ITT pirate wants to blend his balls.
14:22
@Abyx The euromaidan protestors were protesting. They weren't fighting a war. They didn't have rocket launchers and they didn't claim to occupy cities. They protested.
that's one hell of a conclusions you've jumped to
now please kindly take my balls out of your mind.
If, on the other hand, you are armed like a military force, and you move and act like a military force, and you open fire on Ukrainian army forces, all within Ukrainian territory, what the fuck do you expect to happen?
@jalf Everything gets better when you add rocket launchers!
I realize it is a difficult concept, but there is a subtle difference between armed military rebellion, and civilian protests
14:24
Lounge<Ukraine>
> I realize it is a difficult concept
for small values of "difficult"
@AlexM. Personally, I'd rename it Lounge<Pirate's Balls>, but, you know.
@jalf not in the eyes of the press
@abyx by the way, citation for the "Russian is banned in Ukraine", please?
@Puppy I would have dared you, but then I realized you were demoted
14:25
@jalf uhm... I said it before many times, but actually there is no "war"
Here's what Wikipedia says: A proposal to repeal the law was vetoed on 28 February 2014 by acting President Oleksandr Turchynov, who ordered drafting of a new law to "accommodate the interests of both eastern and western Ukraine and of all ethnic groups and minorities."[5][6]
room topic changed to Lounge<Pirate's Gentlemen Vegetables>: I an established programmer with an impressive portfolio and important financial clients [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
3
oh dear.
@Abyx What else do you call it when an armed force "liberates" a part of a country, and opens fire on the country's official army and shoots down planes belonging to the country's official air force?
14:25
vOv woah, how did that happen
I feel like that was a tactically unsound decision pirate.
@Puppy what? it's not saying 'balls'!
room topic changed to Lounge<Censored>: I an established programmer with an impressive portfolio and important financial clients [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
oh, well, it also occurred to me that naming the lounge after testicles is probably considered way less offensive than naming it after vaginas.
because primitive Americans
my bookmark still says Lounge<Barket>
not going to change it
14:27
heh
@jalf Ukrainian officials call them "terrorists"
@Abyx You can call it a rebellion too, if you prefer. It doesn't change the point that it is more than a protest. A protest is an attempt at being heard by the people in power. That is what the euromaidan thing was. When you occupy cities and kill people, it is not a protest any more.
@Puppy I named it after two potatoes o_0
@Abyx That term is way too loaded
@Abyx Yeah, we can call them that too. I don't care. Point is, they are not civilian protesters.
Anyway, about this language thing. Where did you read that russian was banned?
14:28
inb4 non-civilian protestors
@jalf the important thing is that "wars" are regulated by intentional laws.
@Abyx such a weird concept to me that wars have laws
@TonyTheLion that's half the problem
@Abyx please note I didn't say that this current situation was a war. I said that the euromaidan protesters were not fighting a war
14:30
@TonyTheLion and two armies waiting till the agreed time to commit mass slaughter wasn't?
@Puppy lol
The rebels/terrorists/whatevertheyare currently fucking around in Ukraine are not protesting. That is my point. You can call them glorious freedom fighters, mercenaries, heroes, legends, terrorists or criminals for all I care. But they are not civilian protesters trying to be heard by their government
@Abyx Did you read that page?
I farted
14:33
Try the very first paragraph
> A proposal to repeal the law was vetoed on 28 February 2014 by acting President Oleksandr Turchynov, who ordered drafting of a new law to "accommodate the interests of both eastern and western Ukraine and of all ethnic groups and minorities."[5][6]
@jalf did you read the "Proposals for repeal and revision" part ?
("the law" in question being the one from 2012 which approved the use of Russian)
@jalf yeah and it was too late.
how can you veto something too late?
@jalf someone has died for/because of it?
14:35
It's only a veto if it actually blocked the law from being repealed. And if it blocked the law from being repealed, then it had the desired effect, which means it is not too late.
Is the law that allows the use of Russian in effect currently? I believe it is. Do you have information to the contrary?
Otherwise, saying that armed and violent rebellion is justified because the law was repealed is utter nonsense.
the thing is that that law didn't actually work well. but still it existed at least on paper. and after the government decided to repel it - people decided to leave Ukraine. taking their land with them.
@jalf you don't want to use Russian in Ukraine now.
@Abyx Oh, so armed rebellion is justified because a law from 2012, predating the government people are rebelling against, isn't good enough?
@jalf welp it's not that simple.
So they're rebelling against one of Yanukovych's laws?
can... can we have the room back please?
14:38
today I wrote some code!
@Abyx Simple or complex, I expect internal consistency in an argument before I can take it seriously. You have presented nothing of the sort.
@AlexM. You productive shit.
haha
A president flees from an entire country because of a few thousand evildoers who are confined to a single square. That makes no sense. And armed rebellion against government A is justified because of a law introduced by government B
I think this says it all
And now I'm going home. Have fun, all!
@jalf sorry but I just can't present that to you in a few English words.
14:40
@jalf (which government A is looking to repeal?)
but well just can just imagine that Canada banned French as an official language, and streets are filled with Nazi yelling "Kill Frogeaters".
well, last I checked, France did not invade Canada and annex Quebec.
if they did, I'd probably consider it a fairly rational reaction.
@Puppy in Ukraine it happened before Crimea.
I don't recall any of the Ukrainian protesters wanting to kill Russians.
and as jalf just said, the legal history suggested there implies that they did not ban Russian at all.
@Puppy you didn't see those "who don't jump is Moskal" videos?
14:46
@Abyx A few videos is not empirical evidence of a wide-spread belief or attitude.
we have videos here of a woman being super duper racist on a train, but that doesn't mean the British government wants to murder all the niggers
yeah but in Ukraine if was really popular. In Western Ukraine of course.
well, I actually don't speak the language being chanted in those shots
learn it :P
14:50
but again, it seems to me like you're extrapolating way too far from the actions of a few. On the scale of a modern industrialized nation, I didn't really see that many people in the video.
@Puppy there is only two lines "Moskals to gallows" and "who don't jump is Moskal"
I assume that Moskal is some sort of slang
and this is what Moskal is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskal
it's kinda "frogeater" to French
welp gotta go
well I seem to remember that at the time, Russia was going to bankrupt them and force them into an unfavourable trade deal instead of taking the deal with the EU/IMF
@Puppy you remember it wrong. like really wrong.
bankrupting other countries - it's more about USA.
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is a book written by John Perkins and published in 2004. It provides Perkins' account of his career with consulting firm Chas. T. Main in Boston. Before employment with the firm, he interviewed for a job with the National Security Agency (NSA). Perkins claims that this interview effectively constituted an independent screening which led to his subsequent hiring by Einar Greve, a member of the firm (and alleged NSA liaison) to become a self-described "economic hit man". == Content == According to Perkins, he began writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in the...
15:00
not saying that the USA haven't employed such tactics in the past
that doesn't mean that Russia didn't employ something like that here
@Abyx Canada did not ban French as an official language. Neither did Ukraine ban Russian. That makes such an imagined situation somewhat irrelevant, don't you think?
@Abyx Canada's situation is usually described as "two solitudes": both sides don't give two shits about each other.
From what I've heard, it's incredibly similar to Belgium.
@EtiennedeMartel I was just going to say that
But basically, that's the only way to make two very different cultures fit in the same political entity: make them ignore each other.
seems like a lot of places in the world could learn from that. :)
Ell
Ell
15:07
I tried to make pina colada
but it turned out gross
That's racist.
pina colada is racist?
Ell
Ell
I'm gonna try a mojito
@jalf That's the joke.
Everything's racist.
your face is racist
15:09
@Ell you can't screw up a classic mojito
same thing for cuba libre
@jalf So is yours, you privileged Scandinavian.
@jalf Your mother's racist.
Ell
Ell
@AlexM. I don't know how I screwed up a pina colada :p
by deciding to make one
just for reference, I have no idea what that is.
it's a cocktail
15:11
It's an alcoholic beverage.
ah
not my personal brand of "Pay money to die sooner".
Since I like betting on real life event, I am making this prediction: Dow Jones will crash again (fall for more than 20% in a quarter in less than 3 years time)
who's dow jones
Ell
Ell
Stock exchange
a dead guy
Ell
Ell
15:13
I can't tell whether I put too much cream in, rum in or pineapple juice
or if I just don't like pina coladas :P
@Ell do a cola cocktail
mix cola with cola
and ice
> Why does Explorer map "invalid parameter" to "file size too large"? Because some file systems use ERROR_INVALID_PARAMETER to report that a file is too large instead of the somewhat more obvious ERROR_FILE_TOO_LARGE.
@chmod711telkitty I bet you're right. :)
Thank you :p
Maybe I should buy gold in a years time ... </sarcasm>
or get some options and waiting for the volatility to raise ....
15:16
why did I just hit myself on the head with a glass bottle
money.stackexchange
such a wasted opportunity to make it
stockexchange.com instead
if by that you mean the suggested alternative is terrible
then yes
it was a wasted opportunity to totally ruin the website before it started
lol
ok, let me try this again
stockoverflow?
hides behind table
c'mon, you gotta admit stockoverflow is funny
@Rapptz I think he coined << for output, but Iosuttis was the man (?)
if by "funny" you mean "utterly terrible"
then yes I do need to admit that.
15:20
oh puppy
@Rapptz me too :) But then... I'd need to buy it first
your attitude...
dayumn
what?
it's an awful joke
@AlexM. that's not what serious is.
15:21
I like it. But it's not exactly new
people have been making puns on stackoverflow for all the other SE sites for years
@sehe Josuttis, I thought it was.
Or that. He's not Greek, then :)
I don't understand why bootstrap has to have its style hardcoded in the framework.
Can't it just define the layout and functions, and just provide few default styles? Jesus.
you called?
> the average AOL subscriber now pays $20.86 per month, up from around $18 a few years ago recode.net/2014/08/06/aols-amazing-inexplicable-money-factory
AOL still exists
whoa
and they have 2+m subscribers too
15:30
@Puppy Yes, you sacrificed yourself out of nothing. Hth.
who's AOL?
Payed email addresses, or something.
> out_texture = vec2((gl_VertexID << 1) & 2, gl_VertexID & 2);
@Jefffrey untrue. A lot of people pegged their happiness on this one incidence
far too many
15:34
(1 << 1) & 2 == 2, correct?
@sehe s/out of nothing/out of nothing good/
user3010322
(2 & 2) == 2, why yes.
well I've gotta go feed the muttkins
The fuck is a muttkin
@Jefffrey Cross between a dog and a munchkin.
@sehe The current incarnation of iostreams was mostly designed by Jerry Schwarz. There was an earlier version, but he did a pretty complete redesign when multiple inheritance was added to C++. Using << for output and >> for input was suggested as an analog of using > for redirection in the shell. I've read who suggested it, but can't remember for sure--seems like it was either Doug McIlroy or Andrew Koenig.
I'm reasonably certain it was not Josuttis though.
15:41
@Jefffrey Daisy.
Bah, I feel inferior now.
mods must not be able to see edits that make the grace period
I took some sort of interview screening test.
It took me over the prescribed 60 minutes to solve it.
@VáclavZeman Eh, don't take them too hard
Those tests are always designed by people that have some pet interest
@Collin The heck are you talking about, farrell?
15:45
@JerryCoffin more like the opposite of shell redirection:
in >> x;   // shell: read x < in
out << x;  // shell: x > out
Why can't we have this:
"Hello World" >> std::cout;
It's so weird.
You're weird
std::string input;
input << std::cin;
Actually, std::cin is fine as it is.
Input on the left.
@Jefffrey I flagged a questions originally titled "C++ fuck you iostreams"
but the author edited the title before the grace period, and my flag got declined
15:48
which happens, but I feel bad for wasting time
This is what you call extensive documentation.
@Collin why shouldn't the flag be declined of the offending post had already been fixed?
@Collin I don't see anything wrong.
@jalf It should be, I just feel bad someone spent time looking at it, and assuming I'm stupid
@StackedCrooked Probably at least partly historical. Originally, C++ only supported overloads as member functions, so the left operand had to be a UDT. Overloads as free functions were added later, but by then backward compatibility was probably considered important (not to mention: it may simply have never even been considered).
15:50
@StackedCrooked how would that work for inserting multiple things?
@JerryCoffin Ah. I blamed the messenger. He's on my bookshelf
@Collin You should totally feel bad; you could have just edited it yourself, instead of wasting mods time on that.
@StackedCrooked Depends on how you view things, I guess. The < or > points from the source to a destination, so in x < y, data from y goes into x, and in x > y, data from x goes into y. Viewed that way, iostreams are the same way--x<<y means data from y goes into x and x >> y means data from x goes into y.
1
A: Image Source Completion for Sublime Text 2

user3915081Sorry what do I know you or something Stfu I was banned for other reasons and it was an experiment as I already said

15:54
Anyway, off to work with me I guess.
Talk to you all later.
you are being annoying and childish not me — user3915081 8 mins ago
he responded to himself?
@Jefffrey To which the correct answer is "was not -- and he was touching me!"
awww, I couldn't add a snarky comment
15:55
wtf O.o
> Sorry what do I know you Stfu
da fuq is wrong with that user?
@TonyTheLion schizophrenia?
heh, that's not even an unreasonable answer
@TonyTheLion Took this quiz: clickhole.com/quiz/what-fuck-man-414
15:59
> You pushed me too far, man. Somebody hold my beer.
lol
> Watch it, man. Look, dude. You’re pushing me. That’s all I’m going to say. You’re really pushing me. Seriously, I’m this close.
We play a game, clickhole or buzzfeed. Someone gives the headline, and you have to guess which site it came from
damned impossible
"I gave a blowjob to my boyfriend. Can I be pregnant?"
buzzfeed
yahoo! answer
16:04
damn
If you include yahoo, everything gets better.
You should play yahoo!answer or stackoverflow.
only if I can pull from the close queue
16:29
@TonyTheLion Contrary to popular belief, multiple personality disorder is separate/different from schizophrenia.
Apparently, just managed to make someone happy
@Jefffrey "Please". "Can I be pregnant, please?"
user784668
@Jefffrey Why?
Pregnancy is for pussies.
@Jefffrey Sure. It's unlikely the two are related, though.
It's more likely you have ebola.
@Fanael Why not.
@jalf it was like hypothetically you know
16:57
@jalf and wrt Russian language in Ukraine, even before the coup it wasn't really welcomed in Ukraine. E.g. there was time when commercials in Russian language were forbidden in Crimea area. So people maid commercials in English and German just to mock the government. The tension started a long ago, and it bursted up when a bad Yanukovych government changed to a crazy nazi anti-russian government.
the Ukraine thing still going strong?

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