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user3010322
13:00
@Puppy If you still have it open, you can modify the parameters of the v command and it should change in real time.
I guess MSVC can explain everything.
user3010322
I'm probably doing something insanely wrong.
I'm surprised it doesn't run out of heap or something.
user3010322
It used to!
MSVC used to be much faster than GCC
Guess they broke that too
13:00
GCC eats RAM like crazy when compiling ogonek.
You can just PAY MOAR. IncrediBuild(TM)
or rather GCC got fasted
Incredibuild is nice
user3010322
But g++ did too before as well. Well, it stopped running out when I did the first fix, while VC++ kept exploding with ICE and heap errors until I finally grouped and trimmed everything of the UCD.
but incredibuild is inherently just throwing money at the problem
not solving it.
I hate IncrediBuild on the naked fact that it should not be needed.
13:01
@ThePhD Yeah, I see that. It's kinda nice but you forgot to stop the render timer when the re-render finishes.
When I tried building it on the Pi it would take some 30 minutes because it didn't have enough RAM (and unlike MSVC, it simply started thrashing; it didn't give up)
@sehe exactly.
user3010322
@Puppy Oops. :c
@BartekBanachewicz Not really, because my DISTCC + CCACHE combo solves exactly the same things without throwing money at it. It will even transparently speed full builds on a single host
also, it's nice the way you can see the render progress on the re-render, and I definitely dislike not having it on the original render.
13:02
the problem lies in the language anyway
Half truth
user3010322
@Puppy The render progress si actualy there for both!
it's designed in a way that makes designing fast compilers absurdly difficult
True. If you rate "intrinsically limited" as "very hard"
@ThePhD When I launch it, it does not have a window showing the progress, nothing happens until the render is complete.
13:03
Builds are bottlenecked by I/O. That's why we use the network to speed it up.
3
@BartekBanachewicz They could be made considerably faster than they are now, though.
user3010322
The problem is that in order to write text, I'm loading a font from Windows and then creating a Raster-Text bitmap on-the-fly with GDI+. That takes longer than the initial render does. <_>
and when compilers like MSVC still struggle with correctness, talking about perf is way over the top
s/correctness/workiness/
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol - that's a nice joke. The sade thing is, many people wouldn't spot the irony in that
Ell
Ell
13:03
I can't get scala to builldd ahh
wait. it builds, it doesn't test.
user3010322
I need to figure out how to speed up my GDI+ -> RasterText Bitmap loader.... but until then, the font loader will always be terrible. :c
@Ell Ship it!
Btw, another VS pro tip: don't use template aliases.
user3010322
typedef everything.
(Even non-template aliases in using-style are problematic)
user3010322
13:05
Or diiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeee.
@ThePhD I like how pretty much every other of your messages is just expression of your emotions about the previous one.
@ThePhD It'd be a lot faster to just render it with D2D... why on earth would you create raster text bitmap.
user3010322
@Puppy Requires D2D text subsystem to be working... which it was! But, I was porting to OpenGL. Which has no D2D. I fellback on what worked.
user3010322
My FreeType isn't done yet. :c
13:07
OGL also has no GDI+ so I don't see how this solves or causes a problem.
why do you port to OpenGL instead of simply writing for it
@BartekBanachewicz Because it's written already?
ah wait I misread
user3010322
GDI+ is a Windows thing. So it works on all Windows machines; since I'm developing on Windows, I can depend on GDI+ being there while I whip the other systems into shape.
pretty much all reasonable Windows systems have D2D now.
13:08
Depends on Windows version
it's Vista+ D3D10+.
user3010322
Yeah, but D2D doesn't render nicely with OpenGL.
user3010322
If there's no D3D Device... there's no D2D to be had.
@sehe I'm not sure about it myself. I know it's there. I just don't know in what form. (which is why I posted it; I like jokes that are all in the audience's head)
use bitmap fonts :v
13:09
you know you can do the buffer locking thing, right?
user3010322
I am using bitmap fonts! I'm... just generating them at runtime. u.u;
You always end up with a bitmap one way or another
user3010322
Which is why it takes so long to load initially. It's entirely a self-made problem.
@CatPlusPlus the level on which it happens is crucial
user3010322
I know how to fix it, just... I haven't yet.
13:10
@ThePhD like most of your problems, no less.
@BartekBanachewicz Depends
when doing normal user UIs you typically want fonts to remain vectorized as long as possible
rasterization of fonts is complicated.
you don't do it until you need to.
morning
user3010322
13:11
Still, though. Some 8-14 seconds of loading a simple raster font which includes ASCII characters is a bit borked.
all that pixel arrangement problems and hi-dpi and whatnot make it even more complicated.
user3010322
If I could get that down to 1 or 2 seconds, it'd be nicer.
@ThePhD I just use BMFont and it takes me ~0 seconds
How Fred learned to stop looping and love the lambda -- featuring Sutter, Knuth and lots of candy ;)
4
user3010322
Well yes, if I just did it at build-time it wouldn't matter.
13:12
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see how that changes anything. When you start, you know what you're rendering into, so you can prerender many glyphs.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I dunno... IMHO app interfaces should scale like web pages
@BartekBanachewicz At which point you do some more pre-rendering and forget about it again?
Maybe. I don't know.
I would leave that because premature optimization.
I don't think running font programs every single time is a good idea.
@BartekBanachewicz Web pages don't scale until you zoom
13:14
It's negligible if hardware accelerated.
I don't think you're a good idea
@BartekBanachewicz Good luck accelerating font programs in hardware.
user3010322
FWIW, STL's font engine actually caches the results of all his runtime vectorization and drawing of glyphs with freetype.
Curve rasterization is hardware accelerated
Raw curve rasterization is terrible without hinting.
13:15
To get the curves you need to execute the font
Android wants to do even more of that and that's why OpenVG is suddenly a thing
well, it was always a thing about that in particular
user3010322
Eh. I'll stick to just implementing nano_vg for DirectX / OpenGL, and then writing a Font layer on top of that stuff.
user3010322
IIRC @melak47 already did DirectVG, and @Borgleader was doing an nano_vg++
@BartekBanachewicz A font is not just a collection of vector graphics.
it's terribly shitty anyway
13:17
Well, it can be, but then it will look like crap unless drawn huge.
I basically don't want to be concerned with that in my life ever
user3010322
I do!
user3010322
Ish. I'll let freetype handle most of it. <_>
user3010322
In fact, I think I'm going to throw out my DirectWrite/D2D system entirely
user3010322
and just use FreeType with DirectX.
user3010322
13:21
That way I can focus on implementing FreeType before I do any OpenGL stuff at all.
user3010322
Plus it'll be entirely cross-platform because it's FreeType, which saves me quite a hefty sum of agony.
> I had a call with Elon Musk earlier this week and I've got some exciting news regarding the Tesla Museum. Tomorrow is Nikola Tesla's 158th birthday, so I'm saving it until then.
OOOOH.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's targeted?
Not sure if question or joke
> The stab of stiletto
On a silent night
Stalin smiles
Hitler laughs
Churchill claps
Mao Tse-Tung
On the back
user3010322
13:41
Wat.
@BartekBanachewicz 1.58 million donated?
@thecoshman I think oatmeal asked for way more than that
@BartekBanachewicz 158 million o_0 Elon isn't that rich is he?
Some gems from comments:
@KonradRudolph. Right, whatever. You can believe you are right by giving justifications through means that are not nearly enough to prove that you are right. Things are proven by actions not by theories. This solution is meant to provide something to use for simple cases that you need randomness. Reverse engineering attempts are out of question. Your whole concept of thinking is wrong. Not everyone works at cryptography. — ThunderGr 50 mins ago
13:45
nor is a musuem that expensive
@KonradRudolph In addition you fail to understand the concept of true randomness. Collecting environmental noise from your computer is, again, "security through obscurity". The environmental noise can be calculated as it is not truly random, since your computer is a finite and relatively predictable system. You have failed to read my answer properly, because you think you are an expert of some kind. I do not care what is your belief on the existence or not of true randomness. Invoking some unproven theories from the field of theoretical physics is not proof at all. — ThunderGr 42 mins ago
> Your whole concept of thinking is wrong
rofl
> Things are proven by actions not by theories.
Oh man, that's harsh. You got the concept of thinking wrong?
Well, I guess all of math is wrong.
@EtiennedeMartel gravity is just a theory bro.
13:48
@TheForestAndTheTrees I think you are underestimating how expensive 'awesome' can be.
@KonradRudolph Teach the controversy!
> Not everyone works at cryptography.
You certainly don't, you badlet
@thecoshman he is
He's so gonna get Lounged.
@BartekBanachewicz 1 billion dollah!
13:49
@thecoshman 12 according to wikipedia
MPL doesn't have a scan algorithm :(
his salary is $1 :D
fuck I so envy him.
@BartekBanachewicz lol, was just going to say that
He's a living Tony Stark
it's amazing
JRM
JRM
janky ass dom chat room
13:52
btw, there is MSVS "14" CTP 2
89th richest guy o_0
it's sick
it doesn't even make sense for him to work for money
@Abyx Yes, it makes it worse.
he would probably earn more not working
@R.MartinhoFernandes did they fix/add side-by-side installation?
meh
anyways, I was going to switch to Clang when it will have exceptions
or I'll just use it without exceptions.
because they're ~unsafe~ and ~slow~
i hope the startup i am going to work in also will be worth millions soon
> Our Customer Service Department will try very hard to reply to you within 28 hours
That's a weird timespan.
probably 24 hours but accounting for a timezone difference?
Time passes at the same rate in all timezones.
14:08
sure, but the business day may be offset relative to you
lol @JerryCoffin is such a troll
@BartekBanachewicz Not trolling at all. Just stating facts! :-)
where is Jerry trolling?
@BartekBanachewicz: I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. It most certainly does give something over just using Random.Next(). Specifically, it gives the user a larger electricity bill by wasting CPU cycles (and energy). — Jerry Coffin 2 mins ago
I was really scared I wrote something stupid
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, the sweet smell of success!
14:12
I'll answer with this picture.
user1804599
OMG.
user1804599
TIL const x = { get y() { return Math.random(); } }.
@BartekBanachewicz Okay, if you're going to answer with a picture, go ahead and do it already! :-)
pfff
cheater.
14:17
@BartekBanachewicz The true mission of computer science: figuring out ways to cheat the system.
ho shit I barely survived a fight in an asteroid field.
no shields, medbay and o2 depressurised and broken
> Sorry, Leela is (temporarily?) no longer for sale.
ugh why would you do that
On the other matter, the "theories from theoretical physics" that have been mentioned have proven to: 1) have a lot of explanatory ability, and 2) have a lot of predictive power. They can explain physical phenomena, and they can predict them. It's like sometime in 1964 someone said "If you build this huge tunnel under Switzerland and a bit of France, and shoot a lot of subatomic particles in a particular manner around it very fast, you will see this line show up on the screen, because there's a boson that causes it" and then someone built that tunnel and observed the line in 2012. — R. Martinho Fernandes 51 secs ago
I like that last sentence.
Anyway, deleting since I don't want to get in an argument over that.
sounds wise
@jalf you're saying that to dominate the argument yourself :P
14:23
function IsDigit(car) {
    var digits = "0123456789";

    if (digits.indexOf(car, 0) != -1)
        return true;
    else
        return false;
}
Good morning people.
@BartekBanachewicz I have no intention of getting into that one. :)
@EtiennedeMartel hi Etienne
The best thing about detecting the Higgs boson is that that formulation above has more impact than "sometime in 1915 someone said that the stars would be in weird positions in the solar eclipse of 1919 and then someone traveled to Principe and saw them in those weird positions".
For once mass media insanity works in my favour.
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Not just convenient - essential if you don't want to spend more time building the walls / mixing tiles than actually playing :P
apparently opera next is faster than chrome
Xeo
Xeo
14:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm considering going with their cheaper option
> 2. Sie partizipieren an unserem Eigenimport. Wir bauen das Gerät gemeinsam bei uns in Neuss auf, nehmen es in Betrieb. Danach demontieren wir wieder die Hauptbestandteile (oder Sie haben ein großes Auto) und Sie kaufen den Tisch als "gebraucht wie gesehen" ohne Garantieleistung. Der Preis liegt dann für Sie bei nur 649,- €.
this "Off-road" feature seems nice
It is cheaper.
@sehe do you use it ever?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What is, building it myself?
How do I build scan without explicit recursion?
(I know that's my cup of tea, but I'm annoyed)
14:29
> We’re also happy to announce that Opera now looks nice and crisp on high DPI (low physical dimensions, high resolution) displays.
@Xeo That I dunno, but 649 is cheaper than 1999.
Still sounds like a lot, though.
I might be biased to undervalue such a thing, though.
No help with scan?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but you lose the warranty thing
I have no idea what scan you are referring to
Xeo
Xeo
OTOH, paying 649 twice is still cheaper than 1999 once
even thrice
@Xeo I dunno if warranty is an important thing for... a table.
Xeo
Xeo
14:32
Mechanical parts
but yeah, it's fucking expensive
Yeah, those should be quite reliable for that price.
Or maybe they're not and that's why the warranty costs 1300.
@Xeo Don't think like that if you wouldn't pay it twice.
Because then the end result if you end up needing the warranty is not paying 649 twice; it's paying 649 once and having no table.
Xeo
Xeo
heh, true
building one myself though... would be hard, I think
ah
pointfree doesn't help because when you feed it a scanl implementation it will convert it into scanl and call it a day. I wish it had a feature to explicitly avoid certain functions.
That would make it actually useful and not just a curio.
@Xeo I like the "oder Sie haben ein großes Auto" part.
Xeo
Xeo
14:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes Even in Japan those things seem to cost ~600 at the very least
Damn I want one. And I don't even have people to play it with :(
Man, nice weather this weekend.
NICE WEATHER THIS WEEKEND.
Xeo
Xeo
Don't jinx it
@Puppy use hoogle?
Gotta spam my friends to see if they're up for the Sternenpark.
wtf is hoogle
14:43
@BartekBanachewicz And somehow guess he needs hoogle?
it was in code tags
@Puppy use google :p
@Xeo It's called "Gear Acquisition Syndrome". A bane of photographers, guitarists, and some types of gamers for years. Don't succumb (says the guy with 6 cameras, 14 lenses, ...)
@Puppy Search engine for Haskell functions. It's quite awesome. You can even search by generic types.
hoogle is a code search :v
14:43
ah
searching by signatures is awesome
using it would be pointless since if I recognized it as a Haskell function I wouldn't need a search engine to tell me
@Puppy you know what every haskell function does?
@JerryCoffin and robots! I seem to recall a certain robot acquiring a bunch of screens...
For the Dutchies:
14:45
Wait... Puppy is learning Haskell?
@BartekBanachewicz assuming Outlook: yeah obviously. Job syndrome
@TonyTheLion everybody is learning haskell
@TonyTheLion No.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes shouldn't that just be a fold that returns a cons'd list instead of a single element?
Ha, that's it!
14:46
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not
MPL has folds. Yay.
right has folds
@TonyTheLion you just don't know it yet
SPAMMING FRIENDS FIRST.
ask rightfold
:P
Xeo
Xeo
14:46
or probably rather a pair (element, list+element)
since you need the last state
Here I have random access so I can just accumulate the list.
@ThePhD 1) rastertext sucks, 2) GDI+ sucks. (3) you suck :( )
2
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes that works too, I guess
@TonyTheLion When people get them they're called "wrinkles".
14:48
@melak47 Oh gawd, what did you do with those parentheses?
damnit "ups.pl" is a website about upses
@R.MartinhoFernandes the third clause is (erroneously) in them
@R.MartinhoFernandes :3
oh shit
I forgot to repair my doors and sensors before jumping and engaging a Mantis ship.
now I can't force them to engage me in the medbay.
0
A: STL String to lower case

user3455897lowering a string without parsing it...i never laughed so hard, do you even know what a program is??

14:50
> I tried std::transform, all i get is abominable stl criptic compilation error that only druids from 200 years ago can understand (cannot convert from to flibidi flabidi flu)
@BoltClock damn you why did I flag it then
@BartekBanachewicz seriously though, if you're gonna use a cruddy windows API to rasterize your font into a rasterfont bitmap thing...why not just use direct2d, and instead of doing rastertext just draw it with that :/
@BoltClock Gee, that boilerplate comment is so ridiculous there that it hurts.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I hate those comments as much as the next guy but in this case the whole absurdity of it in context makes it even funnier
-1
A: STL String to lower case

user3455897I tried std::transform, all i get is abominable stl criptic compilation error that only druids from 200 years ago can understand (cannot convert from to flibidi flabidi flu) this works fine and can be easily tweaked string LowerCase(string s) { int dif='a'-'A'; for(int i=0;i<s.length()...

Is also terribly unreadable and ugly. do you even know what a program is??Bartek Banachewicz 1 min ago
Have you read Google's C++ Style Guide? There's plenty of good reasons not to use Boost. — Mehrdad Jul 21 '12 at 7:39
14:52
^ sweet
delete Google;
> I tried std::transform, all i get is abominable stl criptic compilation error that only druids from 200 years ago can understand (cannot convert from to flibidi flabidi flu)
Oh my.
I'm not a druid!
I think he has druids and droids mixed up
3
those are not the druids he's looking for
2
14:54
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you are 200 years old?
I'm working on it.
New in VS 14' RC: Error C9999: (cannot convert from to flibidi flabidi flu)
uh oh, what happens when you error code overflows
> error C1001: internal compiler flibidi flabidi flu
:D
that might be verbal equivalent of compiler losing its shit
14:56
wouldn't it be C0000? :p
Dammit, I mixed up left and right again.
@melak47 ICE is C1001. Trust me, I am familiar with this.
4
yeah, but if your error code overflows from 9999 or wherever, wouldn't it wrap to 0 :p
A Druid droid would be a cool DnD concept...
A Druidroid? Droidruid? Druoid?
checks weather again
Whatever little was left of my productivity is gone now.
14:59
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
> Scheduled Delivery:
Friday, 11.07.2014, By End of Day
cool cool cool

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