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00:04
Von Neumann architecture enabled code to be stored as data.
It seems to me that first-class functions are congruent with this idea.
So if a language doesn't support them then the language sucks.
Thank you for your attention.
@StackedCrooked I'm still unsure about how exactly first class functions are different from C++ ones (implementation wise)
@Borgleader You can't assign a function.
You can't say foo = bar;
Unless foo is a function pointer.
user1804599
You can do first-class functions without a Von Neumann architecture.
But not if foo is a function.
user1804599
Where the function implementations (i.e. machine code) are stored is an implementation-detail.
00:08
lambda-enabled punch cards ?
@StackedCrooked Does that mean first class functions and inline functions are mutually exclusive?
probably
user1804599
@StackedCrooked possible if you store the instruction pointer on the punch card.
goto lambda;
We are having issues with a backend database server and will be switching to a replica in a moment.
user1804599
00:11
@Feeds Good.
@Borgleader However, I may be wrong. Pure functional languages also don't allow assignment.
user1804599
You can emulate assignment in limited scope.
user1804599
With state monad.
@StackedCrooked thats mostly due to the fact that assigning a function would change its meaning thus breaking the whole immutability thing. wouldnt it?
@Borgleader AFAIK, a function name basically denotes a pointer offset in the instruction cache.
So essentially that's immutible.
Also kernel doesn't allow writes to executable memory section.
So a C++ function is too low-level. Enabling first-class functions would require functions with at least one extra level of indirection.
00:17
@StackedCrooked I know but pure functional languages are all about immutability, and assigning one function to another would break that. so even if that wasnt an issue it would be a design "inconsistency" to allow it.
And this exist (function pointrer).
@Borgleader Yeah, first-class function means that they can be treated the same like objects. So if a purely functional language does not allow assignment to objects then functions should be treated the same :P
If self-modifying code was still possible then we could implement first-class functions by rewriting the code.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Function object.
Yeah.
I was mostly thinking about the minimal elevation that would be required to enable it.
And pointer was that.
Xeo
Xeo
dunno, I didn't follow the discussion
Function objects are cooler though :P
@Xeo I was thinking that first-class functions in C++ would mean that you can say void foo() {} and later foo = bar; . This is now very impossible.
Xeo
Xeo
00:28
huh? How did you arrive at that?
Why would first class functions allow you to reassign / redefine names?
Functions not treated differently than other objects.
We have narrowed the issue to a new domain controller that was brought online. We're working to resolve the issue now.
Xeo
Xeo
meh. doesn't play well with mutability
guess why lambda's assignment op is deleted
also, auto foo = [](){};
user3010322
I think to make it better for @StackedCrooked, you'd just enable foo to be turned implicitly into a function object all the time.
user3010322
auto x = foo; // a function object
user3010322
00:30
All functions are function objects, all the goddamn time.
user1804599
@StackedCrooked use pointers!
Xeo
Xeo
auto x = []foo; // teehee
22 mins ago, by Borgleader
@StackedCrooked Does that mean first class functions and inline functions are mutually exclusive?
user3010322
@Xeo If only I had the money to go to Chicago and defend the paper.
do you know?
00:31
@Xeo I don't mean rename. It's still named foo but it now does bar.
user1804599
@StackedCrooked would be great for AOP!
user1804599
But you can do this with extra indirection.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked I didn't say rename. I said "redefine names"
user1804599
Just make foo call some global std::function. :P
Xeo
Xeo
anyways, meh
00:32
redefine names? Sandra is cool name. But now I redefine it as a cunt name.
wtf is going on
Xeo
Xeo
dunno
I'm high on sugar and sleepy
dafuq?
I'm high on LEDs.
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Sandra is the name of a customer of one of our customers.
00:33
> Exciting news! Your order has been completed and the shipping company will no doubt be waking up their postmen and pointing them in your general direction this very instant.
cool
@R.MartinhoFernandes I am sleep deprived and was thinking that first-class functions are more congruent with the Von Neumann idea than non-first class functions.
an actual order!
All I read was "Sandra is a cunt name".
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's in September :(
00:34
it's either a Lacuna Coil print, or the Katee Sackhoff/Tricia Helfer almost-lesbian calendar
@rightfold wow double indirection. so much opportunity for hooking.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds like everyone has a great start into the weekend.
Sleep time for me nao
user1804599
@StackedCrooked I’m a two-customer programmer.
you have two customers?
00:35
@Xeo Not my fault that the toys arrived today :|
SO has something like 60% uptime lately. it's shocking.
Xeo
Xeo
I didn't mean that negatively!
Anyways
1 min ago, by Xeo
Sleep time for me nao
Also not my fault that my Paranoia playgroup bailed out of tomorrow.
Xeo
Xeo
I want to be semi-awake tomorrow morning
@Xeo just use more sugar!
Xeo
Xeo
00:36
in case my package actually does arrive
and isn't delayed until Monday when I won't be home to receive it
@R.MartinhoFernandes Any recent developments on ogonek?
No.
Someone e-mailed to thank me for it this week.
Xeo
Xeo
@Borgleader Ogonek now works on LEDs
user3010322
A Bright and Shining Future Pile of Poo.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you done with it or just busy with other stuff?
00:37
Other stuff.
Xeo
Xeo
4 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'm high on LEDs.
@Xeo He's not always high... =/
hi guys, i have a quick technical question about c++11: if i have a function taking std::string parameter by value, and pass a temporary constructed from literal string to it, do i benefit from move semantics or do i have to do std::move?
Xeo
Xeo
temporary -> move
^ this
00:40
always?
Xeo
Xeo
or you could just pass the literal string itself, and construct the argument directly
@Xirdus What do you think std::move does?
"or you could just pass the literal string itself" thats what i meant
Xeo
Xeo
Does it help if I rename it as_temporary_like?
"What do you think std::move does" iunno, some magics?
We have corrected the internal issue - thanks for your patience.
Xeo
Xeo
00:41
@Xirdus That will just directly construct the string argument
@Xirdus No
All it does is cast the argument to an rvalue
that's it
no magic
ah okay, thanks guys
im pretty sure he talks about move and forward in this one
cool, now instead of 3am, ill go to sleep at at least 4am ^^
Xeo
Xeo
apropos sleep
who's keeping me awake here?! shakes fist
user3010322
Stay a while and listen.
00:47
Scarlett vs Polt
I usually root for them both but now theyre fighting each other
idk what to do D:
user3010322
Hm.
@Feeds What, you finally fired all your techs?
yes. And they replaced them with me
now SO headquarters is on fire because I accidentally their code
shit
i knew it was bad, but not that bad
SE accidentally their hiring standards
<3
new improvements to the SO site implemented by me: everything is now a spinning gif, and if you click on any of them, your browser will crash
01:01
-1
Q: Overload a function at file scope, class scope and function scope

PavelI have a logger macro that calls a "function". Then, I have another code generator macro that defines that function that logger macro uses. To simplify things, it looks like this in my case: void doLog(const char *loggerName, const char *fmt, ...); #define LOG(fmt, ...) doLog(LogStruct::getLog...

Anyone have an idea wtf this is going on about?
@Crow sounds like every website under Chrome-dev this week
    _ZNSt8_Rb_treeISt4pairISsiES0_IKS1_PKN6google8protobuf19FileDescriptorProtoEESt10_Select1stIS8_ESt4lessIS1_ESaIS8_EE8_M_eraseEPSt13_Rb_tree_nodeIS8_E
   // ^ One of my fav functions
speaking of protobuf, what do you think of using it as game data format? (question to gamedevs, if any)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it seems he's trying to make his macro fallback to a global/default function if another macro isnt defined.
aka dumbbullshitsauce
01:06
@Xirdus Microsoft Excel
user1804599
@Xirdus depends on what you want to do.
user1804599
Multiplayer communication?
user1804599
Save games?
I will always prefer plain text. However, that's probably not good enough for gamedevs.
@StackedCrooked its preferable for development, but for a shipped game it needs to be binary (unless you want to have abysmal loading times)
01:09
Unless it's for saving a screenshot of the game. Then plain text sucks.
@rightfold constant data - level descriptions, spritesheet metadata, etc.
user1804599
I’d use JSON or S-expressions or something dunno.
user1804599
Depends on the programming language.
random wtf: i just got a call from unknown phone number
at 3:10am
user1804599
Turn off the phone.
01:11
I have some experience with protobuf and boost::serialization. Both do the job.
@Xirdus did you win a cruise to the bahamas?
that happens to me on a regular basis (although usually during the day)
@Borgleader i dont know - i have headphones on, so i couldnt exactly answer it
google the phone number
not to mention other people in the house are sleeping
user1804599
I don’t answer calls if there is no name appearing.
user1804599
01:12
I deny them immediately.
I wonder why :: is used for indicate the scope in C++, why not ..
but rotated the other way round ...
@telkitty because stroustrup ran out of ideas for trigraphs
@chmod711telkitty probably because :: is easier to type
You mean ⊇?
01:14
just be thankful emoji wasnt invented back in 70s
if they were java would be called 💩
@Borgleader my browser doesnt speak large unicodes; could you post an actual image?
:| is there any place to look for part time junior level jobs?
ukraine?
user1804599
01:19
@StackedCrooked ga nou godverdomme eens slapen jij ばか.
"job location city: USA" :| well that's helpful
theres a village in my country called America
I think I just heard a cow die outside
living in a dog ~_~
I'm jealous
01:41
@rightfold oh, you woke me up. good morning.
Happy midsummers y'all
I think you mean Happy Steam Sales
For those of you who care, project euler is back up again; in a sort of read-only version.
9
02:19
taking this was a bad idea
02:53
> You show symptoms of several mental health disorders. While they have not reached the level of full diagnosis, seeking the advice of a therapist is recommended, as the symptoms may become overwhelming, more frequent, and more serious.
lol
@Crow It's terrible, don't worry.
yep, the questions were like "do you ever feel tired, before it's your bedtime? YOU HAVE OCD"
It says I'm depressed. I'm not. I'm just calm.
Ahaha manic episodes yeah no
It got 'specific phobia' right, but it wasn't too hard seeing as how I selected a thing that said 'do you have a phobia'
I'm just weird. And absent minded. And pretty dumb... what were we talking about?
> You appear to have showed some signs of experiencing a manic episode. People who experience manic episodes have times when they feel extreme emotional "highs" accompanied by a variety of other symptoms, such as racing thoughts, extreme talkativeness, and reduced need for sleep, among others.
yeah, I'm manic too apparently.
I hate this kind of tweets.
03:00
Embrace the truth
And retweet
I made a 4chan clone in 2 hours. Why, I am still not sure
If someone could cast some undelete votes here, it would be highly appreciated.
03:16
No, it's shit
If you want to post how DM laws work, then just make your own question
It's probably already posted somewhere anyway
03:43
Uh.. Does the move operator get called on all elements of a vector when it is resized?
@Nican Except for the new elements, yes.
Oh boy- alright. Thanks.
@Jefffrey therapists are like lawyers - have to tell you there is something wrong when there is nothing wrong because they get paid for 'fixing the wrongs'
of course sometimes things are wrong, but a lot of times, they aren't
:tinfoil:
Cat, let's admit that we are both idiots so there is no point in arguing ~_~
discussion between two idiots would result in a dumbass conclusion ...
or many dumbass conclusions
04:31
locate grep | grep '\/grep$'
locating grep is so meta
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: I wish I could help, except I don't. [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
user3010322
04:45
@CatPlusPlus Got a windows computer around?
user3010322
Sorry, windows.
user3010322
I'm, uh.
user3010322
Need to test some functionality on this application, yo.
user3010322
04:47
Oh, wait...
user3010322
I haven't built release. <_>
user3010322
Would you mind taking a debug build anyways? :D
What is it anyway
user3010322
Raytracer!
So it probably needs debug DX or whatever
user3010322
04:49
I link against release DX
Well if it works oob vOv
user3010322
Also, it has a command file syntax you pass in to the thing from a console or whatever!
05:02
Urgh I try playing BF3 and what shits itself? Shitbuster of course
lol anticheat software
So many years and this crap is still broken and useless as fuck
the only thing anticheat software achieves is that it forces cheat makers to become smarter
and devise even better cheats
user3010322
1000 ms == 1 second, right?
user3010322
I'm not tripping balls?
05:04
The only thing Punkbuster achieves is being fucking broken
It's the only thing it ever achieved
It's the only thing it will ever achieve
WHY DO I STILL HAVE TO USE AN EXTERNAL FUCKING TOOL TO PLAY THIS GAME
@ThePhD Yes.
@CatPlusPlus at least it's not gamespy arcade, steam keeps on asking me to install gamespy arcade whenever I try to launch some older games
gamespy arcade is fucking dead, remove it from the dependency list already damnit
I have to start the setup and click cancel every time I want to play
Ahahaha no still fucking broken
Fuck this shit
Good thing I haven't paid money for this stupid game
3
Also fuck pub servers anyway
Wikipedia categorising PB as '2000 software' is so spot-on
9 years after release I decided to finally play Stronghold 2, when I saw that I was able to see inside buildings I was like "whoa"
the original game was released in 2001 and I guess my knowledge about the series stopped there
after one hour and a bit of playtime, I have no idea why this game scored so bad
it's a clear upgrade over S1 that's amazing to look at
Might be unbalanced or completely broken in MP or something
05:13
maybe I'll find out later
MP is gamespy so it's dead now, if that's the biggest issue, I'm ok with it :D
Meh, SP Stronghold
I hope crusader 2 will be popular in mp
it's the most fun game in the series, I can only play simcity in the middle ages for so long before getting bored
Every game is popular in MP if you can get your friends (or lazy Loungers) to play
lol good point
though I'd expect crusader 2 players in public servers to be a bit more decent to play with than those in bf or cod servers
I don't think I've played a MP game that wasn't a total zergfest anyway on pub servers for a long time now
Crappy sentence, but I'm tired so w/e
05:20
yeah, it's 8AM and I'm dead tired too. mum insisted for me to accompany her to the doctor so I had to wake up at 7AM
yesterday it really felt like she had good arguments for me doing this but now I'm not so sure
I'm probably the only guy in this company who went to work at 7:50AM on a saturday
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus I think I finally got it. Here ya go: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17632594/Lightstalker.zip
user3010322
if you don't pass in a command file, it will default to some random scene.
user3010322
if you invoke it, though, you can do Lightstalker.exe commandfile (there's a command file already in there)
Runs and doesn't crash and renders something
@LightnessRacesinOrbit can you help me out a little bit? I've tried to search for an answer but I so can't find anyone on the web who has used this expression before and/or if it's correct. does it make sense to say something like "they're welcome" in response to"X thanks you" or "X says thanks"?
05:30
nice little buildup classic smashing pumpkins
You should draw a mouse cursor
user3010322
I should?
it looks correct to me but goddamn it must be something wrong since I can't find instances of it being used anywhere with google
user3010322
Huh
user3010322
ShowCursor isn't working
user3010322
05:34
This is... uh.
user3010322
Hm.
actually, I think my question is better asked on EL&U
stop crashing ... arrrgh
there's no trace of such questions there
@ThePhD don't you know that?
user3010322
05:43
@CatPlusPlus Anything else seem out of place?
user3010322
Sweet deal.
user3010322
Source code for it, if you're wondering: github.com/ThePhD/Lightstalker
user3010322
KdTree.h is still completely empty, which means when I load more complex scenes tracing time will go into the hours. :v
int mean (String name)
{
	if(frequentTheLounge(name))
		return 1;

	return 0;
}
05:56
should be int mean(int argc, char *argv[])
and the rest modified accordingly
nm ...
p.s. Maleficient sucked ... I am disappointed by the movie
> Quite simple, and it is usable, but not generic.
I'm going to use this from now on whenever possible
"Hey, look at this awesome hammer I improvised to fix this pipe!"
"Quite simple, and it is usable, but not generic."
don't ask
06:04
@AlexM. You are misunderstanding the domain.
You are aware this is a geometry library right?
I was not being serious
@MarkGarcia what the ...
I just liked how it was said
it was meme-ish
I guess
I do agree some boost libraries are over-engineered though.
I guess Asio exhibits that. Though I think it's more on the "more ways to get things done" side.
06:07
I don't like asio
the dimension agnosticism part is interesting from my POV boost.org/doc/libs/1_55_0b1/libs/geometry/doc/html/geometry/…
back when I did the same thing, I had two separate functions for 2D and 3D
then again, I don't know C++
like I said, geometry :v
the domain needs some generality.
that's why some people try to implement vector classes as an array so you can have vector2d and vector3d
I think the design is due to the fact that there are many, many operations that can be done generically on different types of points. Putting the complications on the point classes would greatly simplify creating those operations.
06:40
We should get boost::format into the STD
boost::format is the slowest formatting thing ever.
it also has the ugliest syntax
You like the python replace % thing?
I think format does that also
as somebody coming from boost format this looks awful :-)
it's Python and C#'s str.format
I didn't do printf syntax because adding positional arguments to it made it ugly.
06:43
I said I was going to get a GTX 660 next month but now I'm thinking about saving $120 out of this month's salary and get a GTX 760 which is vastly superior, in two months
hmm
user3010322
@Rapptz Do you use printf/iostreams under the hood?
@Rapptz Yeah the position I think is definitely true. But I'm not quite sure about the {0,10} part, maybe have the 0 implicit?
@ThePhD iostream
if I use printf then I disallow people overloading operator<<
does iostream use printf?
user3010322
06:47
Hm.
user3010322
I don't want to use iostream underneath. :(
user3010322
Mostly because I don't know how to properly wrangle the globalization nstuff.
what globalization stuff?
user3010322
Like the culture and stuff found by the std::locale business.
user3010322
My biggest pet peeve is it's global.
06:49
don't think so
user3010322
I forgot if the ability to query/save state on the stream you're working on is present or not...
the *_put and *_get stuff isn't global either..
idk what you're talking about
I used to imbue items with magical properties in Diablo 2
user3010322
@Rapptz That, and the fact it's bound to what the operating system itself decides it supports.

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