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11:00
why can't people write decent code
lol its a question i got from this example "what would be the output if it was executed"
its not me writing code
burn the book or the person who wrote it
@compski And you already knew the ouput.
i knew the output but i din get why it got it
thats why i asked...
@Jefffrey I say burn the book and drown the author.
11:01
um
> heck, I'm the guy who single-handedly stereographed Elephants Dream, rendered it and got it an award at a 3D movie festival.
anyway thank you you told me
I just got a lot more respect for @datenwolf
@compski You're welcome.
@FredOverflow the other way around wouldn't be as effective, yeah
Is "to drown somebody" proper English?
11:03
I think so
@ScarletAmaranth come on
I accidentally typed #include <foo.cpp> instead of #include <foo.hpp> and got my face blown off by recursive preprocessor errors. :(
@Jefffrey "idiomatic C"
@FredOverflow Yes.
@Maxpm yes C++ has great multifile support. Use only .hpp files.
11:03
thx guys and one more thing why does my antivirus keep detecting threat when i compile certain C++ programs?
3
because it's heuristic
ahahah
stop using av software god
lol im using avast
11:04
@compski likely because you write evil code :/ it's a feature
uninstall that crap
@FredOverflow "Who the fuck left the drain valve open? They're going to drown somebody on the floor below".
av software is as malicious as virii
8
Q: How do I output 3D images to my 3D TV?

JustinI have a 3D TV and feel that I would be shirking my responsibilities (as a geek) if I didn't at least try to make it display pretty 3D images of my own creation! I've done a very basic amount of OpenGL programming before and so I understand the concepts involved - Assume that I can render myself...

this is cool ^
=S so u guys live on no antivirus?
what u guys just use firewall?
@Jefffrey that's idiomatic c++.
11:05
@compski What book did those programs come from? Become a hacker in 24 hours?
@compski yes. irrelevant. Zero days are zero days and it's much more about what you click and what you block
@compski firewalls are even worse than antiviruses (if you're behind a router)
@compski Not all of us. I am Kasperskified.
@BartekBanachewicz patently wrong
@compski I use Linux. Not sure if there is Antivirus and Firewall software for Linux.
11:06
@compski Antivirus programs cannot protect you from anything.
they are useless.
firewalls don't intrude and they represent common sense
running an AV is completely false sense of security, and they are way more invasive than most viruses.
@DeadMG not entirely, but if you know your stuff they just get in the way
@compski You should have left this room when you had the chance.
11:07
@FredOverflow clamav
haha what about Malwarebytes?
@DeadMG They are not useless. If nothing else, they allow me to deliver stuff.
@compski never heard of
@sehe That sounds like a venereal disease.
@MartinJames huh
11:07
its a free program to detect n remove malware from comp
@FredOverflow that's okay, it's still the same software
> "n"
@sehe Does it make sense to use it?
@compski Are you trying to sell us snake oil?
@sehe No AV, my customers sue me if they get malware no matter whether I delivered it or not.
11:08
@fre
@FredOverflow I sometimes do when I receive a zip file from windowsy/unknown origin
AVs are there as a last line of defence, and "bluh bluh AV useless" talk is dumb
hth
@compski looks like marwale
so if a hacker wants to hack u AV wont do shit?
@MartinJames ah. so it doesn't help you deliver, it warrants you against pitchforks
11:08
@compski of course it won't
@compski Use tab not enter. Also, press "cursor up" to edit your messages for up to 2 minutes.
@sehe Shield, yes.
@compski please, reddit is the other way. And 4chan. And 9gag
the greatest security system in windows is UAC
@FredOverflow yes... master
11:09
"Hackers" don't "hack you" god ugh cringe
@BartekBanachewicz The Amiga emulator?
I mean, UAC actually works.
@compski You should appreciate this. It's been a long time since someone was so friendly while explaining the obvious faq items :)
@compski 99% of the time, no
@sehe We have a FAQ? ;)
@FredOverflow the hints and the SE Chat docs
11:10
@sehe Yes, we're all in a good mood today, (or so hungover we don't care anymore).
@sehe I know. The problem is that noobs don't know.
Also, one does not have a physical entity named "FAQ" to have frequently asked questions
@MartinJames I am hungover from a Super Nintendo overdose last night.
@FredOverflow GIF INCOMING :)
lol in what way was I not grateful?
11:11
@FredOverflow I had Doom Bar, London Pride then read books till 0300.
@compski You weren't :) I never implied that. I just meant to inform you of room etiquette. Not per se your role in it
@compski You didn't include The Lounge in your last prayer.
Prayer? I thought the Lounge needed a curse invocation.
oh the 10 stars by sbi post?
11:14
yes
@compski Pinned (the 'big star')
Now I'm hungry.
@FredOverflow (st)ew
@FredOverflow WANT.
@MartinJames source
11:15
..but I'll settle for a banana.
@MartinJames Ask Bartek ;)
Xeo
Xeo
... great. It's 13:15, the DHL delivers until 12:30 on Saturdays, and I haven't gotten my delivery yet.
FFS
Someone is confusing "big" with "complex"
@Xeo inb4 tracker shows delivery van in bar car park.
This however seems spot on
11:18
@sehe WTF happened to Debian? Someone slept on the enter key?
@Xeo I was under the shower when my package came today. I rushed to the door, held the towel with one hand and tried to write my signature with the other, which didn't work at all. "This isn't going to work!" I told the delivery man. I don't think he understood what I said, because he just replied "Okay have a nice day!" and left.
Xeo
Xeo
Did he leave you with the package at least? :P
Sure. I assume he thinks he has my signature, but all he got was a couple of lines :)
Xeo
Xeo
they never look too closely
@Xeo Not sure there is any safe reply to that.
Xeo
Xeo
11:20
which is good, because I suck at signing their computer thingies
++++i is undefined behavior?
@Jefffrey Prior to C++11, yes. Assuming i is a built-in type.
Xeo
Xeo
Oh, speaking of the devil - here it is
It's at least moronic behaviour.
what about ++++++++i;
11:21
Hint: i += 2 is more readable and does not invoke UB. But of course it's not as cool as ++++i.
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow I always fear that the delivery guy is gonna ring while I'm on the toilet.
@FredOverflow If it's not a built-in type it depends on if my type overloads operator++ and lets it modify the internal state of the object?
@StackedCrooked 'pink slip' code.
++++i is also less efficient, but hey, we gotta keep our quad-cores busy, right?
@Jefffrey For user-defined types, ++++i is just i.operator++().operator++()
@MartinJames you would really fire me? :(
11:23
And since function calls are sequence points, no problems there.
oh, I see
And that changed in C++11?
I wonder whether the delivery man ever come across a woman opening the door to get the package while breast feeding a baby ...
Yes, C++11 abandoned sequence points and introduced the sequenced-before relationship instead, which is easier to understand or something.
And it got rid of the ++++i UB problem, but I'm not sure if that was by design or a side-effect.
Cool.
@chmod711telkitty Probably, yes.
@chmod711telkitty Who is breast-feeding the baby, the woman or the delivery man?
> Could you breast-feed my baby while I sign for the package?
11:26
& pull the baby off the nipple then pass it on to the delivery man after opening the door? I don't think so ...
By the way, my package contained this and that.
You must be crazy or something.
@FredOverflow C?
I wouldn't dare to open the puzzle book. I get puzzled enough with C questions.
@StackedCrooked Nothing personal, I would happily fire anyone who wrote code like that:)
11:28
5
Q: Is (++i)++ undefined behavior?

FredOverflowIs (++i)++ undefined behavior? Is it possible that the side effect of prefix increment happens after retrieving the incremented object for postfix increment to operate on? That would seem strange to me. My gut feeling says this is undefined in C++03 and well-defined in C++11. Am I right?

@chmod711telkitty I have a C course coming up, and I need to flex my C muscles.
@FredOverflow Oh fuck - no way to get out of it?
@Jefffrey There's also this book, but it was written pre-standard C, and Andy apparently never bothered to update it :(
@MartinJames Why would I want to get out? It pays really well.
And by really well, I mean really well.
@FredOverflow OK, yeah but it's C. Could you not teach something more productive, say "Suicide for Dummies"?
Apparently, there's still demand for C in the real world.
@FredOverflow Unfortunately, yes.
11:33
And I have no particular objections against C, except for all the obvious crap like declarator syntax.
I have no particular objection to C, except for the fact that it's C.
" OK, first lesson. Everyone write out 1000 times 'There is no string type in C.' "
C is a really good choice if you want easily broken software
@MartinJames They have "strings" of chars :)
@StackedCrooked No. They have arrays of a subset of char.
11:36
C is still used heavily in developing kernel/OS
char string[] = "this is a string";
@chmod711telkitty Does not compile, needs size.
very good
@chmod711telkitty I know that, to my cost:( First thing I did on my first ARM embedded project was the C++ wrapper round the RTOS C calls.
@chmod711telkitty which is the reason why kernels/OSes still suck so much
compare windows 3.1 to Windows 8
@FredOverflow strings with no size are better for performance
11:38
now compare their kernels
@BartekBanachewicz There was an OS developed in C# once, wasn't there?
sbi
sbi
@compski Someone said my name?
@StackedCrooked lol
@sbi oh lol no referencing ur 11 starred post
@FredOverflow there was an initiative to move kernel development to more dynamic languages in last millenium, but that failed and I don't think anyone touched that seriously ever since
@compski ur ugh uk
11:39
@FredOverflow sounds so microsoftish
@BartekBanachewicz Why did it fail?
@chmod711telkitty I think the name of the OS was Singularity.
sbi
sbi
@compski There's something wrong with your keyboard, kiddo. Makes you type strange.
@FredOverflow we had much slower CPUs back then and compilers weren't that good. And we didn't have Haskell.
@sbi nani?
@compski uga uga
11:40
@FredOverflow It deadlocked on boot - the OS could not run without .NET, .NET could not load without OS.
C++ alot to learn ==
@FredOverflow also in javascript.
Stackoverflow is written in C# - the core ... if I am not mistaken
@BartekBanachewicz Open question as to whether it was a superior time then
I didn't understood UB :(
11:41
@fahdijbeli UB = undefined behavior
@Jefffrey that's a webOS, not a fully standalone OS
@fahdijbeli Nobody understands UB - that's the whole point.
@MartinJames lol
@DeadMG making games back then was hardcore business
@chmod711telkitty one of the few times when you're actually right
sbi
sbi
11:42
@compski Imagine a big fish being thrown your way, muting you. Then decide whether you'd rather bow low over your keyboard and type properly.
The progress of understanding UB:
1. didn't understood UB
2. didn't understand UB
3. understand UB
4. understood UB
5. PROFIT
thanks and please explain me slowly because I m not good in english
@fahdijbeli I'd learn english first then.
161
Q: Undefined, unspecified and implementation-defined behavior

ZolomonWhat is the difference between undefined, unspecified, and implementation-defined behavior in C and C++?

for example why this is UB y = (++x + x++);
11:43
I just love people who say "I'm learning C++ and OpenGL"
can someone tell me why sbi is so rude?
7
@fahdijbeli because god said so.
an other question when I can detect the UB when you give me a programm
@compski sbi isn't rude. He's demanding a minimal verbal standard of discussion
@fahdijbeli Because you're accessing x more than once (with at least one write) without an intervening sequence point. That's all there is to it.
11:44
@fahdijbeli You can use your brain to analyze it and use the C++ standard to verify it.
@compski He's an experienced Lounger. Comes with the territory.
@compski His landlord raised the rent recently or something, and not he is into politics and stuff.
@FredOverflow lol i guess u got the right answer
> web/cloud desktop solution.
11:45
@compski why, you got a free big fish, and you call the person who give you the gift 'rude'? I would have ran home to cook some fish stew!
THE CLOUD IS THE FUTURE
BTW @Jefffrey I got an even better idea for a game
@fahdijbeli Well, if you write code like that, it is undefined whether you will be murdered or simply fired.
sbi
sbi
@compski I am not rude. I am just unmistakably say what you failed to grasp when it was told to you by others in more subtle ways a few minutes ago.
@chmod711telkitty fredoverflow and a couple others did ... not sbi..
11:46
ok freinds thanks a lot for your response :)
@compski So what does "nani" mean? Nanny?
I'd rather not know.
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow "what"
@Xeo In what language?
7 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@compski uga uga
11:47
@FredOverflow in japanese .. means "what" thought u guys were anime freaks too
Xeo
Xeo
Japanese
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Actually they wanted to raise the rent. I managed to turn them down, though. (That is, technically, my rent rises, but only by 2%, and I don't count that.)
Xeo
Xeo
why else would I know it? :P
@compski Not all of us are into the exact same stuff.
11:48
@BartekBanachewicz let's hear it
Xeo
Xeo
@sbi Wait, then why are you moving?
@FredOverflow He plays for Man U.
@compski hell no
@sbi And you fought back by engaging politically, right? Way to go.
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz oi
11:48
@Jefffrey In short battle-oriented hard-sf hardcore space sim.
@BartekBanachewicz earlier the reference to reddit, 4chan and 9gag pointed me to think so...
@compski I have no freaking idea how you would connect those.
ok nvm i will shut up xD
@BartekBanachewicz Did you write a game idea generator which spat out this line?
sbi
sbi
@Xeo Because I do not want to live in this apartment while they tear apart my bathroom, replace all the windows and put in a new heating. They want me to move move me back in 4 weeks, but I won't be holding my breath based on that estimation.
11:49
@FredOverflow it resides in my head, silly.
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Indeed. Just two weeks ago, for example, I had to deliver a speech in the building and housing council of the state's parliament.
@sbi So that's why you have no time for the unconference?
Xeo
Xeo
@sbi Oh, so it's a temporary move. I see.
@Xeo Must... Not... Make... C++11 joke...
11:50
oh god
Xeo
Xeo
lol
@sbi =( u made me smell fishy
@compski ...Or did you smell fishy all along? dum dum daaaaa...
btw, I made a great bug recently
int len = lend[0] + lend[1] >> 8 + lend[2] >> 16 + lend[3] >> 32;
operator precedence
11:52
nope.
look again.
the last one should be lend >> 24.
But + binds more tightly than >>, does it not?
@DeadMG lol that too, but still not that.
Xeo
Xeo
wrong shifts?
@Xeo we have a winner
11:52
er, not really.
Oh, you wanted a left-shift.
Xeo
Xeo
(also, that should be | not + in that case)
without knowing what lend even is, it's hard to know which shift should be correct.
lend is probably money, which he shifts from one account to another via operator overloading.
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow Well. I had to deliver this speech which took a surprising amount of time to prepare. We booted up the blocks of Europe's biggest battery power plant for the first time last week and this week, which took a surprising amount of work dedication. I will give a 3-day seminar in Austria next week, which takes a surprising amount of time to prepare. Another one the week after. And on Monday I agreed to have them move me this weekend. Can you spot the problem(s)?
11:53
anyway that's coding under pressure.
Sorry @DeadMG - scrolling screwup.
@Xeo it's the same vOv
ok for this : the comma expression tell that's y = (++x ,x++);and x=1; translate into
y=x//'1' , ++x //'2', x++//'3' no ?
sbi
sbi
(BTW, I am too lazy to look at the transcript, so if that kiddo is trying to talk to me, please someone explain to him what "plonking" means.)
11:55
@fahdijbeli You need to work on how to ask questions. It's really hard to make out what you're asking.
@fahdijbeli it translates into DONT WRITE OBFUSCATED CODE
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz So?
You're manipulating bits, so use bitwise operators
@fahdijbeli You need to switch steps 1 and 2.
if I am manipulating bits it means I'm an animal anyway
led by instinct
Xeo
Xeo
FFS, use |
No questions
11:56
stalking the prey
sbi
sbi
@FredOverflow There is a minimal chance, though, that I might take off a few hours on Saturday night and have a few beers with your guys. But then I might be too stressed to do that.
also this was C#
which makes it even worse I guess
@BartekBanachewicz the heck
altough I gotta say the language is much more pleasant
@Jefffrey see, that would probably require more explanations. But it's doable with what I can do in Haskell, and that's important.
                catch (Exception rsae)
                {
                    // Both RSA and 3Des decryptors refuse to decrypt with bad keys
                    // I'm helpless.

                    var rnd = new Random();
                    var b = new byte[result.EncryptedMessage.Length];
                    rnd.NextBytes(b);

                    using (var outFile = new FileStream(outputFilePath, FileMode.Create))
                    {
                        outFile.Write(b, 0, b.Length);
                    }
yay.
@sbi oi, I'm not in Berlin every weekend.

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