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10:03 AM
Jul 25 '13 at 12:22, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Comments are annoying, tbh.
 
is it okay to accept food for coding help?
 
robor, r u avoiding me after you failed to organize the last Jam? No need to be so, I am a very forgiving person ~_~
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes comment systems or comments them selves?
So this is how @sbi relaxs
 
> relaxs
@R.MartinhoFernandes my roommate and his GF feed me too sometimes
@Xeo I did pretty much the same in high school, nearly puked for the first hours of wearing them but afterwards realized how blind I was all the time
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes i just got my integer wrapper to work with pointer arithmetic (i dont know how i missed that before), maybe that would open the door to using it to index arrays too, gotta sleep on that one.
but i don't think so:
int a[2] = ...;
a[my_int] = ...; //error no viable overloaded operator[] for type 'int [2]'
that might work with C arrays, but not C++ ones :/
 
10:16 AM
@CatPlusPlus high 5
 
Xeo
@gnzlbg array indexing is not literally translated to *(p + i), that's just how it is implemented. indexing still uses operator[]
 
@gnzlbg wat
 
@Xeo then it won't work :/
 
make your own array! :)
 
when I woke up today i was like, I forgot to add support for pointer arithmetic! maybe that fixes arrays due to *(p + i)! but then it didnt work :/
 
10:18 AM
when I woke up today I wish I was still asleep or dead
and didn't want to go anywhere
I'm terrible at programming and everything
I can't openGL
 
@gnzlbg support for pointer arithmetic for what?
 
my C++ code is sucky
and i still have to write C++
 
imo i think the solution i now prefer is if operator[] would look like:

template<class T, Integral I> // T used for exposition only
auto operator[](T&& t, I&& i) { return *(t + i); }

instead of the hard-coded std::size_t for the index
 
JBL
Good morning!
 
and I am already behind with some uni projects
and I am basically just whining like some poor-ass newb
loop to here
 
10:20 AM
oh gawd
 
it's just one of these days
 
@gnzlbg please no, just use std::size_t, it's fine
 
unless you want to use a different integer, that is not explicitly convertible to std::size_t
e.g. because it is larger
 
@gnzlbg what is the underlying container of your class?
 
then you can't make it work with vectors, arrays, C++ built-in arrays
 
10:22 AM
size_t is defined as "pretty fucking big number" on most platforms
 
its templated
 
@gnzlbg they all use std::size_t
 
yep, instead of being templated on an Integral concept
 
@Jefffrey that's his problem
@gnzlbg wooo another one who realizes that C++ is not Haskell
 
so whatever underlying container you have, you'll always end up converting to std::size_t which is large enough
 
10:23 AM
@gnzlbg you need more than 2^64 array indices? ._.
 
good job.
@melak47 sparse containers. Altough it's more convenience shit now
 
@Jefffrey if your integer is implicitly convertible to std::size_t
it will be implicitly convertible to "lots of shit"
 
user3010322
@BartekBanachewicz 4 GB on x86 is NEVAR ENOUGH. D:
 
maybe you want an integral that is not implicitly convertible to weird stuff
 
@ThePhD fuck x86
x64 is like 2 times better
 
10:24 AM
@gnzlbg what are you even... talking about?
 
even x64 assembly can bear some signs of being not not-reasonable.
 
user1804599
There are no x86 computers anymore.
 
user1804599
x86 is irrelevant.
 
im on the quest for an user-defined integer type, that can be used as an integer, but has only explicit conversions
 
if the integer you are using is not convertible to std::size_t you shouldn't be using it for indexing?
 
10:25 AM
it just can't work with std library types because they expect an specific type (size_t)
 
you clearly know better, so you shouldn't need any std lib :p
 
since my int handles pointer/iterator arithmetic just fine it should work
 
@gnzlbg they will figure out how to handle the conversion then, it's not your job
 
if the library facilities were generic enough, but they arent, so it won't
well, they could take my int, and explicitly cast it to std::size_t
but they don't do that
they expect a size_t
which is the problem
anyways, i'll sleep over that these days
 
user1804599
@Rapptz the // instance variables part is not used anymore.
 
10:27 AM
for now i think the problem is not on my integer type, but on the standard library
 
user1804599
Instead you specify properties in the .m file and they automatically generate the underlying instance variables.
 
Poor sucker on my mailing list having the name "John Gamble". I wonder whether he knows he's being marked as junk mail everywhere... :(
 
@Jefffrey size_t is certainly not "fine" :<
 
user1804599
Also eww methods with no explicit return type.
 
user1804599
Never do that. It’s confusing.
 
user1804599
10:29 AM
@sehe Ik gok van niet.
 
@thecoshman Comments.
 
user1804599
> Maak woensdag een selfie in het stemhokje en stuur ze naar de krant. Wij verzamelen BN DeStemfies
 
Also, ugh, that "Doom 3 source code is beautiful" bullshit is doing the Internet rounds again.
 
i'll ask in the standard library mailing list, if there is a particular reason for operator[] to expect a size_t, or if it should be templated on the Index type (whatever it does afterwards: explicit conversion, static_assert the size of the Index... is all alright)
 
@rightfold bat pun
@rightfold ttttttte laat
 
10:30 AM
it is also a non-breaking change
 
user1804599
> We have an open position in our team as a secret consumer and we are looking for qualified individuals to apply.
You can find more information about the position and what this job involves, also the registration form if you open the attachment file.

ApplicationFile.html
 
...waiting for the robot to destroy me in 3, 2, 1...
 
implicit conversions are teh badz
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what do you mean?
@gnzlbg lol
 
@gnzlbg just make an implicit conversion operator to size_t, but make it private, and friend all the std lib containers :v
 
10:35 AM
@melak47 how do i friend built-in arrays?
 
user1804599
I am going to learn Smalltalk.
 
@rightfold soft skills are important :p
 
@gnzlbg pretty much every "built-in" integral type can be converted to std::size_t. Other weird outside library classes with integral semantic won't work unless they implicitly or explicitly covert to std::size_t, so how do you think this will solve any problem?
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's something wrong with the type size_t? :o
 
@ThePhD probably the name
 
10:37 AM
Incoming "unsigned integers are bad" rant...
 
because x_t is so 12 yeas ago
 
@ThePhD not big enough for him :v
 
@ThePhD unsigned types suck
 
@Rapptz well, they are
 
yeah yeah
whatever
 
user3010322
10:38 AM
I dunno, I've found unsigned integers to be useful.
 
@Jefffrey explicit conversions are allowed for my class
 
shame on you
 
@ThePhD except when they underflow
 
you're supposed to dislike unsigned integers!
 
user3010322
That's actually where they are extremely useful.
 
user1804599
10:39 AM
Unsigned integers are useful for serialisation.
 
@Jefffrey but writing a[static_cast<std::size_t>(index)] shouldn't be necessary
 
They're useful for bitfiddling, but not so much for preventing negative values from being used
 
you shouldn't be doing that anyway bub.
 
Also negative indexing should be a thing
 
user3010322
size_t my_size(-1) // some ungodly big number
if ( my_size > limit ) // still gets caught !
 
10:40 AM
herb and bjarne say the comitte screw up by defining std::size_t as unsigned
 
@ThePhD Yeah that almost never works out
 
user3010322
Atleast, on certain implementations. I don't know if underlfow behavior is standard-defined
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't run? I forgive you, no need to be embarrassed, we all make mistakes ... :')
 
@gnzlbg why are you using a custom type for indexing?
 
why shouldn't I?
 
user3010322
10:41 AM
Of course, if limit is very large
 
user3010322
and the negative number is also very large
 
user3010322
it could slip by undetected
 
Hello, I don't know if someone can help me re-build an open source C++ application?
 
my reason is I want to have integer types that are not convertible to each other to strongly type some interfaces
 
@gnzlbg because I don't see any point, why would you?
 
10:41 AM
If you need only lower bound, it's not useful at all
 
and to make them easier (overload functions depending on integer type passed)
so there are a lot of reasons why you would like to have your own integer type (bigint, custom conversion rules, safer conversion rules, strong typing of interfaces, easier interfaces...)
but if you cannot write a custom int that works fine with the language and at least the std library
 
@gnzlbg yeah, that's nice and dandy for normal computations, but what about using std::size_t for indexing?
 
the marketing of "powerful highlevel buzzword cost free abstractions"
falls moot
@Jefffrey then you would have to cast
or access the underlying type
 
Joke's on you for expecting C++ to be sensible
 
or or or other stuff that shouldn't be neccessary, and is easily fixable by making the std lib a bit more generic
~why do indexes need to be converted to std::size_t for a container of short int size?~ nvm
 
10:44 AM
Can someone help me where to find someone to hire for a very small C++ problem ?
 
hire mee...i'm jobless
 
@gnzlbg short int is convertible to std::size_t
 
@Jefffrey but size_t is not to short int
 
I guess someone else got the job! XD
 
nvm i dont even know what point i was trying to make with that
 
10:47 AM
@gnzlbg who cares what std::size_t really is?
 
i hope you understand why would anyone want to write an integer class
 
yes, but I can't see why anyone would use it for indexing
 
struct my_size_t { std::size_t value; };
it is just a size_t, there is no way i can make it behave like a size_t
that is the problem
 
@John do you have skype?
 
@gnzlbg not even your templated version will make that one work
 
10:49 AM
indexing is just a place where that shows up
 
you would have to call i.value
 
Yes. I do. But I don't take to strangers on Skype. What is your job about ?
 
no
i can add an explicit conversion operator to std::size_t
or an implicit one
but if i dont add an implicit one (e.g. only an explicit one), then it won't work
 
@gnzlbg then it would work without templated version
 
yes, for an implicit conversion operator yes
 
10:50 AM
@gnzlbg because it's not supposed to work, that's type safety everybody
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes bah, I wantz dem
 
why?
in haskell it does work
 
C++ is not Haskell
 
an index is not a size_t
an index is a concept
 
@John My friend knows some C++ tried to build this app for me: lmms.sourceforge.net/download.php It's open source. But it fails on 'libsndfile: Unknown'
 
10:51 AM
@gnzlbg no, it's really not
 
@gnzlbg an index is of size_t :v
 
user3010322
This would be easier if C++ supported having multiple arguments for []
 
@gnzlbg Again, what you want is not doable, and making it work with C arrays is hardly an improvement because special casing them against things like std::vector doesn't help a lot.
 
also, C arrays are bad and you should feel bad! :p
 
user3010322
I'm not sure why [] can't have multiple arguments.
 
10:51 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes templating operator[](Index/Integral i) would work
 
user3010322
Makes me feel sad.
 
@gnzlbg Erm, no.
 
why not?
 
Because it's intrusive?
It requires other code to change, not yours.
 
well, it doesnt break backwards compatibility
in the std lib
nor in the language
 
10:53 AM
@thecoshman I already need to cut back on the different things I spend my time with. Adding comment moderation is not a step in that direction.
@ThePhD Really, meh.
 
but yes, it is intrusive, so right now without that, it can't be done
 
user3010322
Can always just use an accessor functor~
 
@JuergPodolski That might be out of me league. Try the jobs section of this site.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I guess
 
@ThePhD See N3851. They use op[].
 
10:54 AM
@John Okay ill give that a look. Thank you anway
 
@telkitty.exe I'd appreciate it if you stopped harassing me. I regret giving you a second opportunity.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can tell Herb wrote this.
He's one of the few people who spam auto.
 
coming soon: A poem about Kitty Kats...
 
@Rapptz I hate them
 
user3010322
That's similar to my concept of buffer_view_n
 
10:57 AM
I like kitty cats,
You like kitty cats,
Silly silly kitty cats,
 
user3010322
Albeit it also includes things like bounds and what not.
 
k well, good night.
Lay off the drugs.
 
user3010322
Using the index<type> for accessors.
 
@ThePhD Probably with the difference of being done right.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ha ha har. :c
 
10:59 AM
This is also how Haskell array indexing works btw.
(Except better)
> Sorry, but we're having trouble signing you out
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
 
They're having trouble telling the browser to forget the cookie. Chrome keeps reinserting it?
 
Doesn't matter?
Session cookies should be invalidated server-side, and the server's version of the story should be the master no matter what.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes The only thing different here is the concept of bounds, so far, and index, but the actual view classes and stuff are nearly identical to my own.
 
user3010322
So, I'll just snag the index and bounds idea, albeit I don't really want to implement a "bounds iterator", as sweet as that would be.
 
Then you will snag nothing interesting?
 
user3010322
11:04 AM
index and bounds are good ideas, and are plenty interesting. :c
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nice
 
Not if you take away all the nice functionality.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes one think i miss in haskell is variadics
 
template <int N> using index = std::array<int, N>;?
 
for example Unboxed is hardcoded for different number of arguments
 
user3010322
11:05 AM
template <std::size_t n> using index = std::array<std::size_t, n>;
 
user3010322
Don't forget your size_t ~
 
@gnzlbg It's a bit weird on the type system. TH to the rescue :)
 
what does (a || b && c) mean? (a || b) && c? tried a quick google before asking here :)
 
but TH is non standard :/
but awesome
 
11:06 AM
GHC supports it? Standard enough.
 
yes, i think they want to get something better than TH in the next haskell standard
 
@JohanLarsson Conjunction has higher precedence.
 
there are some papers about it but haven't had the time to read those yet
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm, never met a conjunction I think :)
 
11:08 AM
googling it
 
In logic and mathematics, a two-place logical operator and, also known as logical conjunction, results in true if both of its operands are true, otherwise the value of false. The analogue of conjunction for a (possibly infinite) family of statements is universal quantification, which is part of predicate logic. Notation And is usually expressed with the prefix operator K, or an infix operator. In mathematics and logic, the infix operator is usually ∧; in electronics \cdot; and in programming languages, & or and. Some programming languages have a related control structure, the sh...
 
@JohanLarsson Never met a conjunction that I didn't like.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ty sir, it is true what they say, you know stuff!
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson It means that your code is extremely bad.
 
yeah for sure, not my code though. Found it and wtfed, added parenthesis for clairity now
 
11:12 AM
GCC has a warning about adding parentheses on those cases.
 
user1804599
clang rightfully errors on this, even.
 
I don't like it but apparently that precedence rule is not widely understood.
 
user1804599
Because it is a bad idea to do it.
 
@rightfold to add parenthesis?
 
11:12 AM
Conjunction is analogous to multiplication and disjunction is analogous to addition, therefore.
 
user1804599
No. To not add them.
 
ah ok
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure if this can work exactly, however, because the paper also shows multiplication/addition/subtraction/division operators for bounds and indices. Implementing those as free-functions could have grave implications for anyone using an array of integers. ._.
 
Sep 10 '13 at 14:19, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Don't listen to rightfold.
(11 stars)
 
11:13 AM
> erreur
pls no
 
user3010322
Huehuheuhehue.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha, he is much better than I am at least
 
@JohanLarsson Clang errors on it because -Werror.
 
user1804599
Hey. Stop talking about me behind my back.
 
but lately I have learned that I'm not the worst programmer ever, been working as a dev for about a month now
 
11:15 AM
@JohanLarsson careful, I'm sure some of the worst programmers ever were also employed at some point :p
 
yeah sure but I read a lot of code that ~real~ programmers write now
 
user1804599
@melak47 Almost all of the employed programmers.
 
@ThePhD huh? how are arithmetic operators that operate on views going to interfere with int arrays?
 
a puke bucket is a pretty good thing to bring when reading code
 
user3010322
@melak47 It's arithmetic operations on the index and bounds class, not the view class, which matters.
 
11:16 AM
Hi
 
@ThePhD I find little use for those operations though :|
 
user3010322
Also in that paper, I don't see a compile-time version.
 
user3010322
e.g. array_view<int, 4, 5>
 
user3010322
I guess it'd be two classes.
 
user3010322
array_view<T, ...RankNSize>
buffer_view<T, Dimensions>
 
user3010322
11:18 AM
Can you default variadicarugments?
 
user1804599
Fuck you spring with your fucking pollen.
 
@ThePhD how are those related to arrays of int? o.O
 
user3010322
@melak47 template <size_t N> index = std::array<size_t, N>
 
user3010322
What was put out there before
 
@ThePhD uh. that's not what it says in the proposal?
 
user3010322
11:23 AM
18 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
template <int N> using index = std::array<int, N>;?
 
user3010322
From there on.
 
user3010322
Also what the hell is strided_array_view?
 
@rightfold lol lol lol
 
user3010322
The concept is like, dropped into the paper and doesn't make any sense.
 
user3010322
av[1][2][3] = 42;
av[{1, 2, 3}] = 42;
 
user3010322
11:25 AM
Lololol what a compelling example.
 
If you mix some cranberry juice & some pineapple juice together with some sparkling mineral water, the resulted thing would taste like some sweet juice that went bad
pretty horrible
sometimes I like to throw in a bunch of things to see what happens ... I guess that's one way how disasters are made ..
 
@ThePhD setting different strides for different dimensions
 
Hey There
 
uh oh
cricket incoming
 
@rightfold, WARNING WARNING he is not cool.
I've run background checks and he is affiliated with the Java mafia
 
user3010322
11:29 AM
The Jafia?
 
Jaffa, cre!
 
when I typed linked.in in my browser, I got this:
 
when websites do annoying pop ups I usually just delete the element :p
I'm not giving into their demands and OKing anything!
 
user3010322
11:32 AM
OH BOY
 
user3010322
CHANGED A BASE TEMPLATE
 
user3010322
RECOMPILING THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD!
 
does refraction work now? :v
 
@Jefffrey Are you Doing marketing job in my company?
 
user3010322
@melak47 Listen, okay. It's not my fault.
 
11:33 AM
Thanks for making publicity of my blog
i will hire you with good salary one day
 
@melak47 I wouldn't mind a plugin that makes it easier to auto delete those fuckers :P
 
lol
 
@ThePhD yes it is. you suck. everything is your fault.
 
@thecoshman "sign in to facebook to use our website!" NO THANKS. "this website requires cookies, by clicking OK you agree to.." LOL NOPE
 
Can someone help me rebuild this open source app for Windows? I will be forever grateful.
 
11:35 AM
What is cricket?
Some one remember this word when i came here
 
@JuergPodolski no. please go away.
 
Am i looking like cricketer? Forget let's discuss for some useful technical stuff
 
user3010322
Huh.
 
user3010322
I am clearly on drugs.
 
@ThePhD ಠ_ಠ
 
11:38 AM
@thecoshman nah im fine here thanks little man
 
what do you mean exactly?
 
@ThePhD lol
 
user3010322
@thecoshman Nevermind me~
 
are they good?
 
@JuergPodolski what? you think this is some sort of pissing contest? We simply do not want you to deal with shit like this.
 
11:39 AM
the drugs I mean
 
@ThePhD new will makes a new object within one thread... but it might break your entire process...
 
@thecoshman Sure thing little guy, ill be here don't worry
 
coding after a night w/ no sleep is an interesting experience
 
and plonk and plonk
 
my hands move on their own; I have no idea what I'm writing, but everything works
 
11:40 AM
@JuergPodolski what's in it for us?
 
yeah, plonks away!
 
user3010322
@AlexM. For now.
 
@jalf fuck all
 
user3010322
Also holy shit, it's 7:40 AM
 
and no doubt more shit to deal with.
 
user3010322
11:40 AM
WHERE THE FUCK DID THE TIME GO
 
@ThePhD well, now is just about as far as I have to go
in an hour or two I'll be done with the whole thing
 
user3010322
:D
 
user3010322
Why am I not insanely tired.
 
user3010322
It's 7:40 AM, the fucking sun is coming up.
 
@AlexM. ballmer peak?
 
11:41 AM
@JuergPodolski sorry, but looking at your tags...no, no I don't want to help you port some linux audio thing to windows :E
 
I am writing the most naive solutions though, so maybe that's the main cause for everything working
 
@JuergPodolski look at github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki/Compiling-lmms. It is not written to support Windows. It relies on a half-dozen Linux-only libraries. Good luck porting it.
 
the very tiny input size allows me to do this
 
@melak47 jquery is good :P
 
11:42 AM
@Jefffrey wasn't that alcohol-based?
 
user3010322
Whatever works~
 
R_R
 
@AlexM. yeah
 
@Jefffrey not enough of it though! :p
 
he he
 
Xeo
11:42 AM
 
heh.
 
@Xeo stupid fucking americans. it's AUTUMN!
 
@ThePhD Er, what interesting stuff does your view class do, then?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes control
or perhaps model
 
Hello :)
 
11:47 AM
> error: class template 'X' was previously declared as a struct template [-Werror,-Wmismatched-tags]
 
user1804599
@Aaღirkhan Get out.
 
Why is this bullshit in a normal set of warnings.
 
@rightfold Good Joke
 
user1804599
It’s not a joke.
 
user1804599
Get out.
 
user3010322
11:49 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I use my view class primarily as a normalization. I haven't done anything like setting different strides just yet.
 
@MaciejLichoń ¬_¬ you look too happy for here.
 
Y?
Are you owner of Stack overflow community?
 
user1804599
Yes. Get out.
 
My lord my spelling is terribad :(
 
Lolz
it looks like you are drunk
 
11:52 AM
Ubuntu sucks so much.
 
user1804599
I don’t do harddrugs, sorry.
 
Even You are not in a list of this room owner's
So Mind your own business
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's sucking you?
 
Very easy to tell who are the linux newblets here ...
 
user1804599
@Aaღirkhan That doesn’t say anything.
 
11:57 AM
Try to spend time on some cool stuff instead of warning others, It looks like you are a security guard of this room
@rightfold
 

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