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15:01
@jalf Oh, I don't mind that. Just providing the previous discussion in case it has content that might help you out once more.
user3010322
@melak47 Well, that sucks. :D
@ThePhD It's a poor marketing stunt, I'd say.
user3010322
@Jefffrey I can give you my any
user3010322
I actually think I have a link of coliru for it here.
15:02
"Look, here's some worthless code to help you in your move to OpenGL that won't really help you".
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, "it's something" while they work on their VOGL thing
@ThePhD nah, thanks. I'm just gonna use boost::any.
@melak47 But SM3? Really?
Hold old is that thing?
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, it isn't really useful. also, not even full SM3
haha lol
So, SM4 is 7 years old.
I understand that China is all XP and shit, but that doesn't mean you should target only China.
15:09
russian also use xp
So.
Good morning ladies and robot.
morning
...
It's afternoon and I'm not a lady. What do I do now?
15:16
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You're the manliest lady I have ever seen.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Change sex in Brazil.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what you do every day
@TonyTheLion Every single time you dump Reddit stuff here?
lol
I don't dump stuff here that much
anymore
15:19
@TonyTheLion Yeah, you can use it right now
> gaol
what?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Not sure what that is
chat in the Lounge, work?
15:20
@TonyTheLion I guess they meant "goal"
@TonyTheLion here
you were missing typename and you added two typenames that were not needed (on K and T)
It means "prison".
@Jefffrey Thanks. I'm not very good at templates
@EtiennedeMartel TIL
15:22
Similar to the French geôle.
Or the Portuguese "calabouço". No, wait.
You're missing my pointy point.
Interestingly, "prisoner" means the inmate and "gaoler" means the warden.
@TonyTheLion me neither, that's why I'm using clang
15:26
So, there's currently a political campaign in Quebec, so naturally, people are saying all kinds of insane shit.
@EtiennedeMartel like what?
@TonyTheLion oh right ok
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix no
"Gaol" is another spelling for "jail".
It's pretty archaic in the UK so I'm surprised to see the Aussies use it, but there we go.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sounds about right, no?
15:28
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well if it's archaic i'm not surprised... Quebec uses lot of old french words
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, I'm not surprised the Aussies use multiple words for "prison". I mean, it's their area of expertise, right?
@EtiennedeMartel Nah, I'm joking.
@EtiennedeMartel It is similar to the Portuguese for cage (for animals), "gaiola".
Probably a common Latin root.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep.
Although, in the English case, it probably comes from some variant of French, as many of their words do.
15:31
@EtiennedeMartel How can they not get a team and a country at the same time?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Un faux dilemne, c'est toujours valide pour le jambon de Québec.
@EtiennedeMartel ;)
C'est ce que jme dis... Les gens à Qc supporte le rapatriment de l'ukraine à la russie?
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's the polar opposite of the American colonies' approach.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sont tarlas en esti, ça c'est sûr.
15:32
I suppose the US is an exception, though. I mean, sir, look at India for an example of the same.
@EtiennedeMartel ça veut dire non?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Honnêtement, j'en ai aucune idée.
Juste que je trouve ça con que le Canada a décidé d'enlever ses diplomates de Moscou... C'est comme... À quoi sa sert d'avoir un diplomate quand il y a aucune "situation"...? C'est claire que quand il y a besoin de diplomate...la premiere chose à faire c'est de les enlever!
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix C'est de la diplomatie passive-agressive.
I farted.
15:36
Amazingballs.
Ils ont kicker des étudiants russes d'une université parce qu'ils sont des "militaires". En gros le service militaire est obligatoire en Russie... Ça fais pas de tout le monde des militaires
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix It serves to avoid the "situations"!
@EtiennedeMartel C'est pas mal aggressif-aggressif. Passive-Agressive ça serait d'envoyer des diplomate muet
"Pow pow t'es mort sinon j'joue pus"
Ouais de mon point de vue la situation fait garderie d'enfant.. juste honteux de voir le canada prendre parti dans ça.
15:38
Le Canada n'est plus une puissance diplomatique depuis Harper.
ouais c'est triste à dire mais c'est ce que je pense depuis que Chrétien est pu la
stop talking french
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Так пойдет?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix да
room topic changed to Lounge<Canadian politics>: In Quebecois French! loungecpp.net [it-happened]
15:42
@R.MartinhoFernandes À l'écrit, c'est pas particulièrement différent du Français standard.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Why don't you just learn it, then?
9 mins ago, by Etienne de Martel
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sont tarlas en esti, ça c'est sûr.
I rest my case.
@EtiennedeMartel I already speak French. Regardless, this is not the place.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Ah ben là.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ouais, je fais juste faire un effort summéplentaire.
15:44
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Dis pas de conneries
bless you
Dieu blesse l'Amérique.
mongetoot mongetoot!
16:01
> Well it's certainly better than Hatebeak.
Comment on a video by Caninus
> Haha, my dog loves this, never seen him so interested in music before, his ears have been standing up for a good few minutes and he keeps licking his lips and wagging his tail.
I farted again.
Xeo
Xeo
Isn't laziness all about efficiency?
Hey
16:13
@Xeo there's a sweet spot though, too much laziness and nothing gets done :p
I was told that there are quite some people here (usually around) that know about modern OpenGL?
@skiwi No.
@skiwi OpenGL is deprecated, it has been replaced by DX12 :)
> Three great virtues of programming (sic) are laziness, impatience, and hubris. (...). But here I'm going to talk about some other virtues: diligence, patience, and humility.
Anyone around familiar with PoI rules?
I'm deep in that shit and need help climbing out.
16:18
what's PoI?
@Xeo?
@DeadMG Point of instantiation.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What was that about?
as in C++ templates?
Xeo
Xeo
I can try?
16:19
what's the problem specifically?
inb4 different specializations visible at POI in different TUs.
This always does my head in. I never know what's legal or not. Does ODR wreak havoc here?
@sehe What part of it is confusing?
2 hours ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
One month since Lightness Pyramid
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a quote. From where? Who said it?
@sehe Why is it important?
@R.MartinhoFernandes somewhat - what's the problem?
16:21
Who said it is?
If I wanted to cite a source, I would have done :)
Curiosity is not important in and of itself. It's a helpful force in some goals for me, though.
I was just reminiscing about that Lightness Pyramid day.
Used some chatter from the very day to do so lazily.
Oh. Sorry to interrupt your peaceful reminiscing
I forgive you :)
16:22
Yawn
@Griwes That's not tired.
template <typename T>
class foo {
    template <typename U>
    foo& op=(foo<U> const&);
};
template <typename T, typename U> void f(foo<T>, foo<U>);

template <typename T>
template <typename U>
foo<T> foo<T>::operator=(foo<U> const& that) {
    f(*this, that);
}
@Griwes "So tired at night" is when you do neither at all
This is more or less what I have, and I get an undefined reference to the f specialisations.
Lemme actually try if that repros.
define them, then
pretty sure that f's definition and all relevant specializations must be visible when the definition of op= is parsed.
since it can be found by the first phase lookup
@Jefffrey coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/84f7f02db7468b4f is equally clear to me
(where "plenty" = 1)
@sehe lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm confused as to why you expect a definition not to be required here.
16:25
Oh, wait, that's not what I actually have.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, sorry, totally dumb.
If this is really it, then WORKSFORME
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You didn't instantiate any of the templates.
@R.MartinhoFernandes And neither did you, in your quoted code above. (That it's obvious my testcase passes is exactly why I have been confused by your issue so far)
So, the question is, what actually is your problem? And what are you trying to do?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol :)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm trying to figure out why I get this linker error. Currently working on a SSCCE :)
16:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes Work harder!
-1 vtc #givenup
@pewie You can do the work yourself, maybe. Enumerating error codes is not our job. See the documentation. And likely the source. — sehe 6 secs ago
user3010322
Which... seems like the correct behavior to me?
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit For me, I get the obvious linker error that f is undefined: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/e29b6927f8ca7b22
Damn non-intended namespace bodies.
16:44
@ThePhD Totally different testcase
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That just seems overly pedantic (as in "hey, I am the robot") to me. It's obvious that if I have a POI issue it must involve some instantiation somewhere.
@R.MartinhoFernandes shrug Unless you were missing that fact. Which is 100% what it looked like from the code you initially posted.
Sorry for not assuming when you post a problem you can't solve that you know everything
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Ok, fair enough (though it wouldn't match the described behaviour)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I didn't look into it that much
16:48
Anyway, did you see the issue in the latest sample I posted?
@EtiennedeMartel Eh, I dunno. They were mostly old-timey RPGs that look like they have interfaces that I would consider completely unusable.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Always assume I know everything!
:P
U+0007, the "bell" character, has no Unicode name, and has as aliases "ALERT" and "BEL", but not "BELL", because U+1F514. </random Unicode trivia>
@DeadMG Still, you can never have too much cyberpunk
Xeo
Xeo
Oh nice, what-if book coming
1
Q: In boost sink and source in one file device

Talespin_KitThe file_sink and file_source classes performs read and writes. But is there a class which can be used as both sink and source on files.

That's actually a baffling point. Why did I never notice that iostreams doesn't appear to have this (outside memory mapped files)?
17:05
@sehe um, basic_file?
sinks and sources are special classes for just input or just output, but other Device types exist
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't anticipate that the baseclass would somehow magically double as /both/ derived classes (I mean, why have the deriveds then). but now I noticed: it's private inheritance... :|
Fuck.
I'm lost again. fires up maps
lol
do you even map?
I remember getting out of the office, going down the stairs and then I look up and I'm at some intersection I've never been to.
did you head out the back door?
17:17
I turned in the wrong direction when I got out the door.
That's what the map says.
> I'm lost again. fires up maps
Yeah... I think you're lost.
@R.MartinhoFernandes XKCD what if book! I go into this assuming you know of it. how's the UK and Common wealth version different?
At least I can have the Little Prince in some printed form, even though it's not a poster :(
I mean, I hope.
hey! stop thinking of yourself!
17:25
I should nag some more about it.
wait, is that the one we both emailed about?
link plz
... to test you like, not because I forgot it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh yes.
@R.MartinhoFernandes crap damn it, I want it still
user1804599
17:33
Cool.
user1804599
Z shell autocompletes the contents of jar files.
Anyway @thecosh I assume the UK version only differs in language used since he refers to it as 'foreign' and lumps it with the German version. Units of measure too maybe in the German version.
@R.MartinhoFernandes bah! poppy cock
My brother might be a bear
17:38
he's been asleep since 6 PM last night and it's 1:40 PM
The description on Amazon doesn't mention any difference either
@Rapptz doesn't seem too insane.
Just regular unusual.
@R.MartinhoFernandes all I can gather is the US version sits square, whilst the UK version sits at an angle.
been like 19 hours man :v
I've done some 24-ish before. More than once.
17:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes hint: different pictures.
first time I've had use for docopt
I don't get it. Why would you want an e-book version of a web comic?
Offline browsing!
xkcd on the go
17:45
@sehe What base class?
If anyone's wondering why YT is slow or down right now, seems that we're getting DOS'ed.
@Rapptz that's called a fuking book
Live Google Feed™?
how does something as massive as YT manage to get DOS'd?
I'm not yet authorized to say who's doing it. But it's kinda hilarious.
@Mysticial Oh, so that's why I'm getting 500 errors.
17:49
@Mysticial oh yeah, you work for them :P
@Rapptz vOv they only have so many gateways
They didn't say whether it was a DOS or a DDOS.
@Mysticial "hilarious"
5
Q: Did You Know... that 10k users can see deleted comments?

Ilmari KaronenI realized something curious recently: that the AJAX backend feature that lets moderators view deleted comments also works for any users with the "access to moderator tools" privilege (10k+ rep on graduated sites, 4k+ on beta sites). There's no official user interface to it (that I know of), but...

@Rapptz it can happen in multiple ways... just find the weak point
17:58
It might also affect only certain servers... which means that for some people they won't even feel anything
@Mysticial that's pretty neat
Unfortunately, I don't know any Javascript or jQuery.
> Almost all of the comments we've deleted were removed for a good reason
lol
@thecosh just preordered.
@Mysticial don't worry most web developers don't either
2
18:15
@R.MartinhoFernandes preordered what?
Which one is preferable: std::map or boost::unordered_map when we do iteration and lookup operations roughly the same number of times?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Both at the same time?
user3010322
18:31
IIRC, traversing a std::map is a bit faster because it's usually implemented as a balancing binary tree?
user3010322
So iteration would just be visiting all the nodes
user3010322
(and all the nodes are usually full).
user3010322
In an unordered_map, you have to skip empty elements in buckets that are not completely full, which requires some extra checking, I think.
user3010322
But beyond my haystack-reasoning, I don't see why it matters. :D
@BradLarson: FWIW, based on my brief foray into deleted-comments-land, 90% of the time the "good reason" appears to be simple irrelevance, with 9% apparently having been deleted due to a more or less incivil tone. I don't doubt that the remaining 1% might include a few pieces of truly nasty / personal content, though, even if I haven't really stumbled across any so far. (Also, obviously, what I've seen is biased by the selection of posts I've tried the feature on, i.e. mostly those where there's discussion that has some obvious gaps in it.) — Ilmari Karonen 28 mins ago
user3010322
18:33
For smaller sized maps, one of my co-workers said to just use std::map. Unordered map usually shines with very large capacities or lots of elements.
Ah. So this was the fate of my high voted comment ever:
it was for good reason!
user3010322
Deleted??
user3010322
18:34
Why was that deleted???
(In fairness, I just looked at the code)
@ThePhD It was highly offensive--didn't contain nearly enough porn.
Oh great. My answer as getting appreciated for it's merit:
It's not about optimization. It's about clarity. Think about it. You weren't even able to pull it off without consulting stackoverflow... (Now I know everything about trying things just for the challenge or in quest of more elegance. I do so too. But I'm prepared to junk the code if it doesn't pull it's weight). In this case, both the map (nonlinear lookup in a heap allocated node-based container) and the std::function is unneeded complexity. And it counts as premature pessimization. I'd say KISS. Nothing to with optimization. — sehe 1 min ago
@Mysticial bill is a punk :P
hard wind and rain on the mountain today, not much fun to be a pointer I think
18:41
@Mysticial he's obviously jealous.
@Mysticial Deleted for great justice.
Or it was to prevent people from seeing it overflow!
@Jefffrey In his defense, there's a LOT of useless comments on that answer. They've all been deleted.
actually, I need that answer for my computer architecture exam in 5 days
And that still leaves like 60+ comments that are somewhat relevant to the post. So there wasn't really much "room" for anything else.
18:54
One of my fave parts about Montreal is the creative ways they deface election signs. #qc2014 is no different (via FB) http://t.co/pHCnTTUEvv
@EtiennedeMartel 3rd day in a row someone links something about PQ bashing
In other news, the RoC is crapping its pants about PKP.
the what about what now?
o.o
Respecitvely Rest of Canada and Pierre Karl Péladeau.
19:03
@Borgleader For example.
Is MacLeans that respectable of a publication though? I always saw it as yet another one of those "we like to shit post with very little substance"
@EtiennedeMartel they do that in Quebec
@Borgleader It's basically like the National Post: they like to do Quebec bashing.
@ThePhD Yes, that's the thing. Hashtables are slower to iterate over, but faster to lookup in.
I know a guy that participate in a "Game" where some teams are taking down someone's election signs
19:14
@ThePhD It's big :(
Well, 400 or so. Not huge.
@sehe In fairness, I didn't at all :D
19:42
There's a snowstorm outside. By that I mean we have snow that is falling sideways.
user1804599
Oh, this is silly.
I was hoping to avoid using vectors because of the need to carry iterators with them. I would like to avoid going back and changing the design in all the places it would need... ContentCollection is just a BST that I named abstractly. — Milan Novaković 3 hours ago
user1804599
Lol, Java has no join method.
thank god
that should limit it from gaining followers
19:59
@rightfold Which kind of join? SQL-style join? thread joining?
oh I almost forgot about that it's not finished yet?
@rightfold Of course it does, it's just a little verbose:
String joined = things.stream().map(Object::toString).collect(Collectors.joining(", "));
user1804599
That’s not Java.
user1804599
It’s Java 8.
only Java could create shorthand that's longer than the longhand.
20:04
val joined = things.mkString(", ")   // slightly less verbose Scala solution
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow did they name their fold seriously 'collect'?
also I farted again
@Xeo No, collect is more general. Joining is merely one kind of collect.
Xeo
Xeo
still seems like a fold to me.
Oh, fold. I read join.
> A mutable reduction operation that accumulates input elements into a mutable result container, optionally transforming the accumulated result into a final representation after all input elements have been processed. Reduction operations can be performed either sequentially or in parallel.
Xeo
Xeo
20:07
so it's not just a fold, but a stupid fold even
user1804599
Did you notice funny time shifts today?
looks like a fold
user1804599
I posted a YouTrack issue at 14:00 and it said 19:00, and my father’s clock is also five hours ahead of the actual time.
In russia there is no timeshift
Daylight saving time is the stupidiest thing ever created
If I had to kill someone, I'd wait for the day the time changes 1 hour back
We could make a movie about that. It will be called: "One hour to kill"
20:23
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix gosh, a map. How exciting
The red one never used DST
The orange don't use it anymore
The blue one still use it
Ooh, I like all the orange bits. They're encouraging.
@ScottW Lucky you, he's already dead.
@jalf Not sure if Africa was smart enough to not use it... or they were too lazy to even try
I heard it was for saving energy in offices. But to be honest I remember how some offices never actually turn the light off
didn't we cover this the other day?
20:31
We did
oh, american people, how do you deal with VAT when ordering things from other states?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix More for saving energy in homes (e.g., most people wouldn't need lights during supper).
@thecoshman No VAT in the US.
@JerryCoffin buy candles! you'll have romantic supper all winter
@JerryCoffin oh what ever you call it you crazy beans
@thecoshman The closest analog to VAT would be sales tax (but it really is different, not just a different name). Dealing with it is...complicated, since it'll usually consist of two or three separate taxes (municipal, county and sometimes state). When ordering between states, it may or may not apply at all though.
20:40
@JerryCoffin I see...
Most states require that if the company you're buying from has an office in your state, at least for tax purposes you bought it from that office (i.e., in the state) and it gets taxed on that basis. If they don't have an office in your state so it's truly an order between states, then sales tax doesn't apply at all.
How is it different from VAT?
@JerryCoffin so.. a company can just sell to another state, an no sales tax (which I still don't see how it is not basically just VAT) is applied?
@jalf VAT (as the name implies) is applied everywhere in the supply chain that value is added. Sales tax applies only to the final sale, not to intermediate transactions.
In the UK, as VAT is just ubiquitous, it is pre applied to all goods, even for companies who then have to claim it back. VAT is an end user tax, not a business tax
@JerryCoffin no it's not
20:46
@thecoshman Clearly you don't know your own tax system very well!
at least, not in the UK
@JerryCoffin Err..
@JerryCoffin business do not pay VAT, or if they do, it is not the same VAT that joe public pays.
There are untaxed and zero-rated items.
@JerryCoffin Has it occurred to you that you might be wrong? ;)
20:47
Hence why we hate VAT so much, it's basically a tax on spending the money you have been taxed on earning.
@MartinJames o_0 how is untaxed and zero-rated different?
I don't see the purpose in adding VAT on top of income taxes.
I'd rather just get rid of VAT and then add more income tax to make up the difference.
@MartinJames Of course there are exceptions--without them, most politicians would lose their excuse for existing.
@thecoshman Zero-rated means that you still have to do the paperwork, but it's pointless :)
@DeadMG well it's not applied the same to everything. Plus it sort of encourages you to save a bit (maybe).
@MartinJames lol
so it's an invention of accountants
@jalf The possibility always occurs to me, but I've checked the facts, and unless the UK has done a radical overhaul of their tax law quite recently (without anybody noticing) I'm not.
20:49
@thecoshman You would surely think so, yes:)
> VAT is charged when a VAT-registered business sells to either another business or to a non-business customer.
When VAT-registered businesses buy goods or services they can generally reclaim the VAT they've paid.
@MartinJames oooh, if you only or mostly deal in VAT exempt, you can't claim back VAT on what you buy, but with zero rated you can.
@thecoshman So you start by claiming I'm wrong, but then: "VAT is charged when a VAT-registered business sells to either another business or to a non-business customer. " confirm that my statement was correct. Yes, a business can generally reclaim (at least part of) the VAT they pay, but 1) they do initially pay it, 2) they can't always reclaim it, and 3) even at best, they almost never reclaim anywhere close to all of it.
By contrast, in the US if I have a company and buy something wholesale that I sell to my end customers, I can normally buy it without paying any tax in the first place.
Hence the name. You buy stuff, paying VAT, but you claim that back from the taxman. You do work on it. You sell it at a profit, charging VAT and giving it to the taxman. So, the VAT is effectively levied on the value your business added.
@JerryCoffin oh I guess I see where you are coming from. If you are VAT registered (which basically means you are a non-trivial business) claiming it back is really just a case of keeping your receipts and saying how much VAT you paid.
from what I can gather with the UK and Irish tax systems is to make you pay it all, then hope you don't get around to claiming back what you can.
so what is this break down you guys have?
do some items pay different ratios?
it's the same in here.
basic foodstuffs and groceries don't tend to charge VAT but other foods do for example
20:58
yeah, but we just have VAT, one rate.
@Jerry said something about it not being one tax they have
well I guess you're either exempt or not, rather than various rates

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