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00:00
@Borgleader Nope. But that ad with just baked air and the message "this isn't just any ad" / "because you're complicated". Well let's say, it doesn't give me any hopes there is actual vision there
@sehe Any ideas why? I mean if I boot into Linux my IO performance goes up by 10x?
@Mikhail Did you measure that or are you asking me?
@sehe asking
@Mikhail You could try. Use a dedicated benchmark tool (IOZone? Phoronix? Bonnie++?)
Disable Virus scan, watch block alignment (what version of windows is this?)
@Mikhail Anyways, disk IO on windows is just excruciatingly slow
00:03
@sehe The benchmark tool says the rated numbers but my own software gets 1/10 of the rated, when I look at the profile and such its just stuck on the io porition. Also the windows resource manager is where the 1/10 number comes from. This is Windows 7.
What benchmark tool
@CatPlusPlus crystalmark
@Mikhail okay, the numbers are likely normal then.
The alignment should be fine unless you hard-imaged your windows partition using some non-SSD aware tools
@Mikhail it depends wholly on what you're doing. ask Mysticial for efficient sequential writing :)
Rest assured, most of the perceived performance win with SSDs comes from latencies (absence thereof) not from raw throughput (unless you're file serving streaming videos concurrently etc.)
Why would you ever have non-const ref copy ctor though
@CatPlusPlus Improper constraints on perfect forwarding ctor.
@sehe That's possible. Hopefully it's just their messaging that sucks and not the product
@Borgleader I don't get my hopes up that easily.
00:08
So that makes the warning useful
@CatPlusPlus I was gonna say
Fix your constraints
er, no.
the faulty constraints are on MSVC's std::function implementation.
as far as I'm aware, my own constraints delegate to theirs just fine.
Well, that's whole another story
same effect- the perfect forwarding ctor is chosen when it should not be.
00:09
@DeadMG so, it's still useful. std::function<> constructors are completely underspecified in the standard, too IIRC
@sehe Fixed in C++14.
I believe that libstdc++, libc++ and VS2013 ship that fix already.
You can constrain those functions accepting functors :v
besides, it's not really useful because I explicitly had to add the extra constructor- I already know that it has more than one.
the warning doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
so? it's useless because you... know?
what's the point in telling me something I already know?
00:10
can't you suppress warnings for system headers anyways
it's not in a system header, it's in Optional<T>- the constraint being if T can be constructed from X&&- where X is another type with another perfect forward constructor, whose constraint is std::function constructibility.
but LucDanton has the right of it- with generalized SFINAE it won't be too hard to re-author the second perfect forward constructor with a more useful constraint.
@DeadMG I agree. The compiler could have just prompted you in a message box asking "Do you know about the fact that this perf. fwd. ctor. hides your copy ctor?" <Yes> <No> <Help> first.
Guise!!! I'm confused about PawnGuy
Is he confused or what?
@TonyTheLion No you're not
00:12
@DeadMG Ah, that's the sort of thing that lead to the conclusion of constraining construction from two fronts.
5 hours ago, by Scott W
You're always confused
lol
I'm winding you up :)
Nope
For foo(Init&& init): member(std::forward<Init>(init)) {} to play nice you want Member member = std::forward<Init>(init); to be well-formed (conversion), but also that foo const& f = init; is not. In the latter case you let the copy constructor pick up that call.
00:16
@TonyTheLion I was mildly annoyed that chat search - once again - didn't want to facilitate me posting that quote immediately in response your first claim.
Xeo
Xeo
gaaah, fucking SO chat search, y u so increadibly slow?
and annoying UX
Those silly warnings about unused variables telling me what I know
Xeo
Xeo
9 hours ago, by Xeo
EnableIf<And<!IsRelated<X, Optional>, IsConstructible<T, X&&>>>
:D
I actually check for conversion to foo const&, to catch publicly derived objects.
Xeo
Xeo
00:19
That's in the hands of IsRelated
^The Eric Niebler Corollary, I think
Xeo
Xeo
I just wanted to show the general idea
Well I still use is_related to perform (is_same .) . unqualified
Xeo
Xeo
I see
Oh that can't be the right composition lol, cba
Xeo
Xeo
00:20
is_same <$> id <*> unqualified?
I meant on
Xeo
Xeo
ah
@Xeo is_same <$> unqualified <*> unqualified would work
Xeo
Xeo
yeah
But on is nicer
Btw, been reading into comonads
argh, stupid MSVC.
2>d:\backups\code\wide\wide\semantic\type.h(85): error C2039: 'type' : is not a member of 'std::enable_if<false,void>'
2>d:\backups\code\wide\wide\semantic\type.h(85): error C2143: syntax error : missing ',' before '*'
2>d:\backups\code\wide\wide\semantic\type.h(85): error C4430: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int
it's not supposed to be a goddamn member.
00:21
@Xeo Oh your (previous) is_related isn't symmetric perhaps?
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton I was just going from your composition
I see.
Xeo
Xeo
ah, wait
f <$> g <*> h is a -> b, not a -> a -> c
so yeah, on it is
hmm
Xeo
Xeo
f <$> g <*> h is effectively g &&& h >>> uncurry f, and what we wanted is g *** h >>> uncurry f
00:24
under what circumstances will the compiler not generate a suitable copy constructor for me?
I suddenly have a super bad feeling about this.
Xeo
Xeo
(Arrow for functions is so nice)
@DeadMG GCC has similar errors.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Context for the errors?
@Rapptz Turns out that I didn't properly constrain it so that MSVC was trying to use it as the copy constructor (because the type meets the callable constraints), so it couldn't SFINAE out on such an instantiation.
user1804599
XSLT is nice.
00:27
@rightfold for torturing inmates
user1804599
I’m using it to generate HTML from XML file with documentation.
It's not useless. But it's certainly not nice.
generated documentation is useless.
@DeadMG Depends on what you generate from... obviously
34 mins ago, by rightfold
Who the fuck came up with this syntax.
00:32
hmmm, balls.
since I added the newer constraints, then everything is fine, except MSVC in one place randomly refuses to construct from a lambda with the proper signature.
user1804599
@DeadMG It’s not generated.
user1804599
I write it by hand. I only mechanically convert it to HTML.
user1804599
I can also convert it to LaTeX, and plain text and whatever I want.
@Borgleader Mac OS too much?
> A Higgs boson is sitting at the bar when the phone rings. He says to
the bartender "If that's a physicist, tell him you've not seen me."
@rightfold Called it
@Jefffrey Absolutely not. That whole baked air ad video drove one point home: MacOS is not good enough (because you're complicated)
It's not just for music lovers
00:38
@sehe I meant the design... and everything really: iTunes, the Dock, the topbar, the lunchpad and all those shits. I don't get it. Why are you copying so obviously another OS design when you want to be unique?
@Jefffrey They don't
They don't want to be unique?
All that shizzle already exists (mint, cairo dock, many others)
Hmm. Trust me, that's much more similar to Mac OS than any other Linux distro.
They don't copy, they just select. I've seen nothing yet that sets them apart (except they design something (the main shell?) to be very lightweight and of course be very extensible)
@Jefffrey I don't need to trust you. I know right
My thought was exactly: I've seen zarroo features that aren't already in some other distro.
Xeo
Xeo
00:41
ha
It looks like it's gonna be another cosmetic bundle with "free" as the legitimation
Also how can you run out of memory on a computer? An int takes up like 4 bytes, most computers have billions of bytes of memory... (excluding embedded systems) — dfg 34 mins ago
@Xeo That went better than expected.
@EvgenyPanasyuk sad
@Jefffrey Isn't Mac OS X illegal to install in a non-Apple licensed machine?
00:45
@Rapptz Define "Apple licensed machine"
A computer with that shitty apple logo.
Probably. Not sure though.
@Rapptz "We're Stack Overflow but with a much shittier visual design!"?
00:50
Yeah.
Xeo
Xeo
Man. Why do monthly manga have this highly annoying habit to end on a brutal cliffhanger? :|
@Rapptz Apparently yes. What was your point?
If Mac OS X only comes with hardware that is severely limited then why would I want it? At least this distro is free and usable with any hardware that I want, provided I have drivers anyway.
@Xeo So that readers keep coming back for more, ensuring revenue.
Xeo
Xeo
...
00:54
Ask an [X] question, get an [X] answer :v
Xeo
Xeo
a rhetoric question needs no answer!
rhetoric answers
Or does it?
@Rapptz I was not going against the OS in itself. The idea of having a very lightweight OS is something I can understand. But they have that "We're a light version of Mac OS but with a shittier visual design!" look that I don't understand.
@LucDanton subtle It does
00:56
:)
hmm
Clang accepts this just fine, but MSVC rejects it.
@Jefffrey I honestly don't know where you keep finding that MacOS reference. I've seen more videos of linux desktops that look precisely like that. Complete with stock wallpapers.
@DeadMG >"it"
@sehe Since "this" was a link to a sample on coliru, it seems pretty obvious that "it" refers to the program in question.
Lol. That's 31 lines of heinous code. What does it SAY!
You'd so nuke this question from orbit on SO
well, it SFINAE's out the perfect forwarding constructor.
but I can't convince it to explain to me why it rejected it.
01:01
Ah. It was in a context. That helps. A tiny bit. So, what is the error
even if I change it to explicitly passing nullptr, it just says "No overload taking 2 arguments".
@DeadMG That should be std::ref.
@DeadMG It says "code rejected" ? You don't fool me
Oh.
That's the ref variable?
I've never studied that.
1>d:\backups\code\wide\wide\semantic\analyzer.cpp(336): error C2664: 'Wide::Semantic::DeferredExpression::DeferredExpression(Wide::Semantic::DeferredExpression &&)' : cannot convert parameter 2 from 'Wide::Semantic::Analyzer::AnalyzeExpression::AnalyzerVisitor::VisitLambda::<lambda_6571b144dbe32df6cdd995e48c8c3250>' to 'const Wide::Semantic::DeferredExpression &'
1> Reason: cannot convert from 'Wide::Semantic::Analyzer::AnalyzeExpression::AnalyzerVisitor::VisitLambda::<lambda_6571b144dbe32df6cdd995e48c8c3250>' to 'const Wide::Semantic::DeferredExpression'
if you want to be specific.
those errors format terribly on here, anyway, but you can see that it failed to pick the correct constructor.
01:03
Well I suppose it's the same as referring to the parameters in, say, the late return type.
sure, but I have tens of other instances of the exact same thing (passing a lambda of the correct signature) and they all function correctly.
@DeadMG ^^
this one is the only one with a problem.
@DeadMG contrast and compare
01:04
which, personally, leads me to smell compiler bug.
@DeadMG Can you try substituting ref by std::declval<X&>() to see if that assuages the compiler?
@DeadMG that happened for me when you said MSVC
@LucDanton nope.
You can't try? :)
@sehe From my point of view almost everything reminds of me of Mac OS. That's probably just me. I haven't much of a Linux experience other than Ubuntu (which doesn't really look nearly as much close to the OS X design). So I can believe that other Linux distributions look more or less the same.
> thats what you get when a group of Mac fanboys get together and the funny thing about it is that they even went Scientology style denial crazy when asked if they were trying to copy Mac(which obviously they did anyway).
lol
01:07
I don't see it.
My first though was simply: this looks like it's just linux with slightly more hipster defaults
And yes it looks like they could use more graphics designers.
user1804599
user1804599
lolgithub
@DeadMG Did you introduce a breaking chance from tweaking the constraint? If so, what was the previous, working one?
@LucDanton The previous working version is the version where I had two implicit conversions in one UDCS, which MSVC happily accepted but GCC rejected.
01:10
So that's a no-go. I'd recommend trimming the constraint until it works, to see what's the tipping point.
"GCC happily rejected" // FTFY
Apparently I'm not the only one.
E.g. you can start with std::enable_if<true> as a sanity check.
@Jefffrey Note, I'm not being defensive of 'elementaryOS' (or is it Luna?)
MSVC seems perfectly happy with it if I comment out the callable signature check
01:12
Perhaps there needs to be a close as rubberduck option?
@Jefffrey In fact, I think it smells like a load of meh
@LucDanton Yeah. I keep suggesting people remove their question if it's not likely to help others in the future
@DeadMG Okay, next step is to take that check and put it in the body in the form of a static assertion. This gives a chance to trigger a hard error to see what the fuss is about.
@DeadMG Then debug condition by parts.
Take this for example.
It is uncomfortably similar to this.
@LucDanton Good choice. I did not consider that.
01:15
If the check is token-for-token identical in both situations and there's a discrepancy you've got a (bigger) problem :v
@Jefffrey That's long since been the look of gnome-control-centre
the link to coliru was already a pretty minimal repro of the problem.
if it passes a static_assert that's even better as far as reproduction goes.
I'll submit it on Connect, maybe it was fixed in VS2013?
@DeadMG I've started automating that part, if I see that a signature involving e.g. EnableIf<concepts::Foo<Args>> fails I can attempt concepts::Foo<Args>::explain() to trigger something. Useful in unit tests.
01:16
@DeadMG Are std::function, std::shared_ptr necessary? or just noise?
does anyone here have VS2013 RTM?
@EvgenyPanasyuk Don't know.
@sehe Well, I don't really wanna go into the upcoming "who copied who" discussion. :)
@DeadMG I have it but I'm too lazy to fetch the laptop now
@DeadMG so, remove them
@Rapptz Not touching that.
01:17
why, yes, they are redundant.
@Jefffrey How would that even be relevant. I mean, this has been my whole point all along: it looks like their.... copying linux.
Of course, linux has copied from many a source, but it's certainly not ElementaryOS that's doing the copying in this particular instance
@LucDanton Yep, passed with flying colours with the static_assert.
Check that the colours don't actually indicate the presence of nasal demons?
(I think it's rather conspicuous if compilation is accompanied by anything aviated)
01:19
At that point you could try implementing your own is_callable to see how the compiler handles it, but tbh it's boilerplate-y.
Esp. if you can't use SFINAE via partial spec.
time to file a bug on Connect, I think.
@DeadMG Kinda makes sense, as supposedly without the constraint the particular snippet would compile -- the check performs the same thing the actual member construction is doing, more or less.
user1804599
// FIXME: Have fewer hash collisions.
return 42;
Mmm. Dat was een explosie. Even twitter bekijken
@DeadMG Was it one-parameter constructor?
01:26
@EvgenyPanasyuk Yep.
user1804599
@sehe wat?
@rightfold harde knal. Geen idee wat
@DeadMG maybe try add void *=0
user1804599
@sehe الله أكبر
I already have a void* = 0 when the SFINAE succeeds.
01:27
Alweer?
I posted this which shows the program (Clang accepts, MSVC rejects).
@DeadMG succeeds at MSVC?
57 secs ago, by DeadMG
I posted this which shows the program (Clang accepts, MSVC rejects).
@EvgenyPanasyuk do you have RTM?
no, only MSVC2012 at the moment
01:30
welp
that's the second compiler bug my codebase has to contain a workaround for :(
it's only 13.5kloc :(
@DeadMG You had two-param constructor - second was for SFINAE. You moved condition into static_assert, and changed constructor to 1-param. I am suggesting to try: two-param constructor, no SFINAE, and static_assert.
Mmmh, haven't thought about that in a while.
@EvgenyPanasyuk The outcome of such a test case is useless to me.
my existing test already proves that it's a compiler bug.
and I already have a workaround.
I'm moving on
I'm apparently at 22kloc of various stuff in annex.
Plus 9k2 of supporting unit tests.
lol, I'm pretty sure my figure included tests.
but I hardly have any test cases so
01:34
How come find stuff -print0 | xargs -0 wc -l looks better than find stuff -print0 | wc --files0-from=- -l?
   143 include/annex/future/preserving/deferring.hpp
    66 include/annex/future/std_future.hpp
   356 include/annex/future/naive.hpp
    52 include/annex/literals/chrono.hpp
    28 include/annex/literals/string.hpp
143 include/annex/future/preserving/deferring.hpp
66 include/annex/future/std_future.hpp
356 include/annex/future/naive.hpp
52 include/annex/literals/chrono.hpp
28 include/annex/literals/string.hpp
Respectively.
And who the hell names an option --files0-from???
@Rapptz Nice LAN.
user1804599
TIL: the origin of the world “jot” lies in “iota”.
Oh I guess the --files0-from is an online thingy, putting results as the input comes.
user1804599
> Need more speed?
user1804599
01:43
> more
lol
I wish my internet was this good
It's a matter of putting all computahs in the same room, I think :v
user1804599
user1804599
So slow.
That pass by ref/pass by value question still bugs me
but I don't feel like answering
user1804599
01:47
I need 1 Yb/s connection.
user1804599
@Rapptz which one?
user1804599
lolreddit
user1804599
This has been answered on Stack Overflow.
user1804599
@Rapptz So many bad comments.
01:50
Yeah
user1804599
Discussing C++ should be outlawed except in designated chat rooms with heavy access restrictions and in books written by selected authors.
hmmm.
do I really need the ability to submit multiple Wide files for one test?
What's a 'file' for?
well, right now, I have each test case's input in a separate file.
Is that the input to the compiler, or the input to the program generated by the compiler?
01:55
the input to the compiler.
I'm running the compiler on the contents of the file and checking that it does/doesn't pass, does/doesn't produce a certain result, etc.
Ah well that depends entirely on the available modes of operation of the compiler driver then, doesn't it?
well, I built the compiler to use as a service, and I use the same components for compiling to a binary, interpretation, and analysis (e.g. my primitive intellisense support) right now.
so it's pretty flexible.
As a starting point, make sure to at least test for the typical use by a user. If that involves several files, so be it.
hmm.
the file combination stage occurs before the analysis, which is the stage I am currently attempting to create unit tests for.
Doesn't seem worth it then, no?
01:59
I agree.
@rightfold I feel bad for not understanding what's wrong with those comments.
user1804599
> int my_method(const my_big_struct *data);
user1804599
And nobody mentions the problem that you can’t pass in a temporary.
user1804599
(CBA to log in.)
Not only that, but it's outdated and doesn't mention move semantics at all.
02:04
oh yay- another compiler bug.
sheezus MSVC, can't you even compile a simple conditional? :(
@rightfold Well, the comment says that it is another option for passing large data structures. And it is. The comment below that one says it's C-ish, so I guess that's not that bad. Or is it?
user1804599
It’s C-ish so it’s that bad.
@Jefffrey Yes, yes it really is.
C-ish things are bad.
I know. But I think I've seen worse than those comments TBH.
oh I think I misparsed what you said
02:10
Not certain how to do the music.
well
my pathetic 14 test cases pass, and everything builds, and I've achieved some minor self-contained improvements, so let's commit.
So.
What is your... vision of the use case for Wide? What is it good for?
mostly to replace C++.
Sounds like a tall order.
here's the real productivity killer: when you can have launched Starcraft 2 and be in a game of it before your project finishes compiling.
@Pawnguy7 Nah, it's not too hard, just a lot of effort.
02:16
@DeadMG Is the repo on github?
@Jefffrey bitbucket
@DeadMG Aren't those the same thing?
eh
they're similar websites, yes.
Gray arrow :D
but it's not correct to say that it's on gh when it's on bb.
they're not run by the same people or anything like that.
02:20
@Jefffrey ever find a font you like?
> using namespace Wide;
Why is it good in that case?
@Pawnguy7 I don't think I have a preferred font.
because we're all lazy when we write our unit tests.
Wrong place bub.
woops
@Rapptz Doesn't look like a unit test. :/
@Jefffrey well, we all agree the current one (in Snake) is ugly, so.
At least for this usage.
02:24
PowerManager::PowerManager(IMsgSender* msgSender)
@Jefffrey Because firstly, it's in my internal CPP file, not in a header
I was told there would be c++
and secondly, because it's my internal namespace, so I have complete control over the names in it.
@DeadMG So it is within that translation unit and does not pollute the global namespace?
and thirdly because all the names are in subnamespaces anyway so using namespace Wide honestly doesn't inject many names at all.
yep.
02:25
woof
That make sense.
also, none of the Wide namespaces are full of underconstrained templates with really generic names.
17
Q: Is it reasonable to null guard every single dereferenced pointer?

evadeflowAt a new job, I've been getting flagged in code reviews for code like this: PowerManager::PowerManager(IMsgSender* msgSender) : msgSender_(msgSender) { } void PowerManager::SignalShutdown() { msgSender_->sendMsg("shutdown()"); } I'm told that last method should read: void PowerManager:...

Why is this a question?
@CaptainGiraffe because cargo cults
02:28
@nightcracker The same Q gets the same upboats every time.
Is "Back" or "Menu" preferable when going back leads to the menu?
@Pawnguy7 I prefer menu
or better, "Main Menu"
(in settings screens n shit)
@Pawnguy7 Are you coding for a phone?
@Pawnguy7 I prefer "Back" (just so you get confused about what to do :P)
@CaptainGiraffe no
Hrm.
@DeadMG, tiebreaker?
02:36
I would go for "Menu", because it tells you where back is, as well as how to get there.
So I should always favor specifics?
yep.
the user likes to not have to remember things if he doesn't want to.
Ok.
Here is my current plan.
Make an options/settings screen. All I know of at the moment is volume options, and maybe fullscreen checkbox.
If I can figure out how to make that work with SFML.
And in the play submenu.
Add a multiplayer option. Will have a bunch of settings, and stuff, then some kind of multiplayer screen for gameplay.
alright.
now I need to add decent error handling for OR failure.
Hrm.
I feel like I keep making commits that have some unrelated parts.
Is that bad?
02:46
not necessarily.
For example.
For my slider input, it has a callback on change.
It occurs to me now, it should pass the new volume.
Additionally.
Apparently I used "Menu" in one place, and "Back" in another.
And they aren't positioned in the same place. So I fixed that.
Hrm...
I have a problem.
a problem?
SCNR.
Fair enough :D
Anyway, most screens use a callback, and I thought it most efficient to set this in the constructor.
But as a result of this, they virtually all have the same constructors.
If they don't have it directly, they need to pass it to screens they construct.
what's the problem?
also, a callback for what?
03:13
  void import( const String &s ) {
    reset();
    type_ = STRING_;
    *( string_value_ = new String() ) = s;
  }
lol wow
so.
I think I will need a class dedicated to OR errors.
03:39
or maybe I should just do it MSVC-style and have one value for OverloadResolutionFailure
I went on the isocpp groups and didn't have a bad time, amazing.
wtf
ikr
tla!!

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