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user1804599
6:00 PM
I delete my messages and they are still there.
 
@not-rightfold like gmail is ever gonna let you actually delete a message :p
they need to archive them for future ad keyword evaluation!
 
@Pawnguy7, Unrelated: line 159, you are comparing the same values with each other. You may want to add other. to the right ones.
 
user1804599
And why the fuck are there hangout chat logs in my inbox.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
And why in the name of Larry Page’s dick can’t I dismiss this fucking message.
 
6:07 PM
@Pawnguy7, Solved: line 359 should be rectangle.setPosition(x*25, y*25); instead.
Neeext.
 
urgh. I hate the sound of insects flying into one of my computer's fans
 
Xeo
mornin'
 
Mowning.
Wait what. Where d'you live?
 
Xeo
Germany, still.
And it's just past 8... pm.
which means the supermarket near me is already closed. Fuck.
 
user1804599
Firefox’ web dev tools are so much better than Chrome’s.
 
6:23 PM
Safari also has similar tools.
How much things have changed in a couple of years..
 
user1804599
Responsive mode is extremely nice.
 
@Xeo And tomorrow is Sunday!
 
user1804599
No more need to resize window.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It'll be a feast, I mean fast.
o shit I don't have anything myself
kebab will do
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still have a Lidl that closes in 30mins, and Penny + Netto that close at 10, which are relatively close by.
 
6:29 PM
So I paid 400 EUR for the AirPort Time Capsule today.
Impulsive buy.
 
:-/
are you going to return it?
cause I'd do that and set up my own equivalent system but for a cheaper cost
looks good tho, like most apple products
 
and... c++1y has digit separators
 
No I like it.
I think.
 
(also hi from the committee meeting)
 
Xeo
6:43 PM
@DeadMG you around?
 
@Xeo hi!
 
Xeo
Heya!
 
@Xeo was here just a little while ago
 
@refp The video reviews I watched all seemed to be positive.
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith I heard you guys kicked dynarray out?
 
6:44 PM
@Xeo I'll let you know in a few minutes
moved to a TS, not kicked out
 
Xeo
oh, voting right now?
 
-4
Q: Give a user card hat to anyone who completes 10 close queue reviews successfully in a 24 hour period

Robert HarveyRemember Winter Bash? How fun was that? I propose that we give a hat to everyone who completes 10 reviews in any 24 given hour period. The hat would only last for 24 hours, so to keep it, you would have to do 10 more reviews the next day. But having a hat would be cool. It would be a nice vi...

 
yes
just voted in digit separators and [[deprecated]]
 
Currently getting 22 MB/s for (local) networked backup. Which is almost as fast as a backup to external HD using USB 2.0.
 
123'456'789 is now one token not 3
 
6:45 PM
I really want USB 3.0.
 
@Jefffrey line 159 WAS related, I believe.
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith Yeah, I read the thing about ' as a digit seperator. I guess it's fine.
 
Anyway, what you found was actually what I thought of. But I was thinking, you just flip it graphically, so the physics should still work fine. But I don't flip drawing anything else.
 
@Xeo We've done a lot of checking to make sure it's fine
 
Xeo
But from the language's POV, it's just a token that is ignored when within a literal, right?
 
6:46 PM
@RichardSmith will there be any voting on your constexpr proposal?
 
@TemplateRex what constexpr proposal?
 
@TemplateRex The UDL proposal? No, EWG discussed it briefly but I wasn't in the room, and they're deferring to C++17
 
also waves from the committee meeting
 
Ahahaha I did it, I brought a goddamn key through 3 entire levels
 
I hope someone is considering something that'd make this work; auto operator"" _foo (unsigned long long N) -> array<T, N> {return { }; }
 
Xeo
6:48 PM
Can't return arrays~
 
@Xeo it's pseudo-cöde, but edited.
I just want N to be able to take part in constant-expressions
it's weird that this isn't already in there.. since it's used in context where everything is known
123_foo, we know N to be 123 - make a niggah happy.
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith: Were your NB comments discussed?
 
@Xeo all NB comments were discussed, even canada's
 
Xeo
heh, then let me reformulate: What's the outcome of the discussion regarding comment 12 and 13? :)
 
@Pawnguy7 Anyway, I tested it with that fix and it seems to be working fine.
 
6:54 PM
@Xeo US 12/13? Richard is actually part of the GB national body :)
 
Xeo
Eh, but those were his comments, no?
 
@Jefffrey Yes. Thanks.
 
@Xeo I don't know which he submitted - US 13 is the relaxation of return-by-move, which was moved to ready
 
:)
 
@RichardSmith I meant the n3652 paper on relaxing constexpr constraint. Is that being postponed to c++17?
 
Xeo
6:59 PM
@je4d Yeah, that's what I meant.
 
@Xeo Local variables and parameters get implicit move, but std::move(x) still disables NRVO
@TemplateRex We voted that into the WP in Bristol
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith Cool, at least one thing.
 
@RichardSmith oh ok so that paper was a writeup of that vote
 
@Jefffrey how is your project going?
 
@TemplateRex The way it works is: a paper is written before the meeting, it gets modified during the meeting, and the paper in the post-meeting mailing may have been voted into the WP in that same meeting.
Or sometimes, there is no paper before the meeting, but it gets written and voted in in the same meeting. Sometimes it's delayed, sometimes not.
Things were rushed a bit in Bristol to get features in in time for the DIS
 
7:02 PM
@Pawnguy7 My only project now is to learn OpenGL very well. :)
 
@RichardSmith But the "newly written and voted in at the same meeting" path got quite a lot of disapproval at brisol, c.f. the waiting_future thing
 
@Jefffrey Ah. What do you think of the collection design thing?
 
optional out of WP into a TS
dynarray and arrays of runtime bound out of WP into a TS
 
Xeo
How many TSs can a standard have?
 
@RichardSmith tnx now I understand. Still hoping that c++17 adds constexpr lambdas and STL algorithms so that your n3597 std::any_of example would work
 
7:05 PM
@Xeo I think we're up to 7
 
@TemplateRex There's some support. We had an NB comment for constexpr lambdas, the decision was "not for C++14, maybe for C++17"
 
Xeo
I have a feeling the Chicago meeting is the "cooldown" meeting, after everyone was super hyped in Bristol and features got in left, right and center. :)
 
I think I'm on the hook for implementing it in Clang, then someone will write a proposal
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith Have you been volunteered again?
 
@Xeo Pretty much. I'm bad at not being volunteered for things.
 
Xeo
7:07 PM
Heh
 
and... we are done!
 
Great job
 
Xeo
So, digit seperators, [[deprecated]] got in, and optional + dynarray out to TS?
 
No optional?
 
@chris no optional.
 
7:10 PM
@Xeo Correct.
 
Xeo
Oh btw, did you guys talk about the Asylum (std-proposals)?
 
@Xeo lol
 
Clang's C++1y status page is looking pretty good right now ;) </shameless plug>
6
 
Yeah, I noticed.
I use them on Coliru at least.
 
Xeo
@RichardSmith It still doesn't implement SFINAE on empty pack expansions :P </hint hint>
 
7:15 PM
Clang is awesome, and the nightly build .deb for ubuntu/debian were a golden move. Gcc is being left behind there, who wants to compile that regularly
 
and it still doesn't work well on Windows
 
also btw: we now have a reflection reflector, groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!forum/reflection
as of yesterday evening, no posts on it yet
 
I hope we never have reflection in C++
 
@Rapptz not even static? SG7 isn't looking at dynamic/runtime reflection at the moment
 
The idea doesn't appeal to me.
 
7:19 PM
@je4d Sounds like the ranges mailing list.
2
 
Xeo
I don't get why we shouldn't have it just because you don't like it. :/
@R.MartinhoFernandes Zing.
 
@Xeo Well obviously there are reasons I dislike reflection but it's obviously not worth posting because they've been echo'd more than 10 times over.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Plop.
 
@Xeo somehow I suspected that you would be in favour :)
 
Xeo
why?
 
7:23 PM
@Xeo you like twisted template magic enough already, and it's new toys
 
Xeo
heh
 
I'm 16. I'm Slavic. I'm an antifeminist, traditionalist, preservationist, and nationalist. Im not politically correct and I am openly racist
:psyduck:
 
@Xeo Yeah yeah :p One day. I fixed the commas-in-default-arguments thing eventually. Clearly nagging works.
 
Can a non-const object call const functions?
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Well at least he says what he stands for. :P
 
user1804599
7:28 PM
@Pawnguy7 No.
 
user1804599
Objects cannot call functions.
 
user1804599
They can be there and that’s it.
 
Well, at least he's an asshole?
 
Const member function, I mean.
 
@Pawnguy7 Yes.
 
7:30 PM
Makes sense. For some reason, I had remembered it as not being able to.
 
user1804599
You cannot call non-const member functions on const objects.
 
I am not sure what to do with my collections :\
 
user1804599
Send them to Rookgaard.
 
Like, at what point do you make them?
Does a ParticleEngineWhateverYouCallIt make sense as that, because particles are dumb?
 
user1804599
You don't need to put everything into a class.
 
user1804599
7:34 PM
Use functions.
 
Yes.
 
@melak47 so, wanna grab a beer tomorrow?
 
Many things I use involve collections of things.
For example, imagine you have a particleengine that manipulates and draws particles.
 
Can someone link me to the digits separator paper?
 
Should it be its own thing, or should you do it manually?
 
user1804599
7:38 PM
@Pawnguy7 Imagine you have two functions: one that manipulates particles and one that draws particles.
 
@not-rightfold Could work. Although, what if you have different kinds of particles? Just repeat with each type you use?
 
user1804599
Make it generic.
 
What'd they choose?
 
Xeo
7:40 PM
@Rapptz '
 
Why?
 
Xeo
Because _ didn't work
 
Also are digit separators really needed?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes also outdated, it's not online yet
 
I've seen two questions about it but I never really had the thought, "hey I wish C++ had this" :s
 
7:41 PM
It'll be in the the post-chicago mailing. N3448 is the closest to what we voted in that's online
 
- Pronounce 723,7,4981,23.
- Compare 23749,8123 with 237,499123 for equality.
- Decide whether 2,3,7,4,9,9,1,2,3 or 2,0,2,4,9,4,7,2 is larger.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did you type all that?
 
@Rapptz Final digit separators paper: caffeinated.me.uk/~jeff/N3781_digits_separators.pdf
 
Anyway I'm guessing that's a breaking change
 
There's no code using it.
 
7:45 PM
' in the middle of a number is a syntax error now.
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
So why would it be breaking
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well maybe I misread but MPL does things with multi-character literals. So what would '123' evaluate to?
 
@CatPlusPlus There's an example in the paper of variadic macro magic that it changes the meaning of
 
@Rapptz It has to start with a digit to be a number.
 
user1804599
7:46 PM
Should I use get and put or getState and putState in Parsec?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh okay. Cool.
 
Aren't multi-character literals an extension?
 
@CatPlusPlus nope, normative with implementation-defined value, type int
 
user1804599
Their values are implementation-defined.
 
7:46 PM
:lol:
 
@je4d Pretty much a blessed extension.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah
 
That wins "dumbest thing about C++ of the day" award
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
@not-rightfold getState/putState probably.
 
user1804599
7:49 PM
Gonna read dragon book again.
 
Anyway, what else got in besides digit separators, relaxed constexpr and poλys?
 
Since dynarray got removed, the VLA syntax is gone too right?
 
Why did optional fail?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Template.. variables.. or something
 
@Rapptz Variable templates.
 
7:58 PM
What does that even do?
 
user1804599
Modules I want modules why are there no modules yet it’s 2013.
 
template<typename T>
bool IsArithmetic = std::is_arithmetic<T>::value;
Something along those lines.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's just sugar for foo<T>::value.
 
Almost like properties
 
8:18 PM
@Pawnguy7 what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes can't, too much to do (study, write stupid reports, write documentation, study more)
 
@Jefffrey ala BulletManager
I notice, I do it a lot.
For my input forms, for example.
 
@Pawnguy7 follow Bartek's suggestion
 
@Jefffrey "Don't do that"?
 
I meant Zoid's suggestion
3 hours ago, by not-rightfold
Write two generic functions update_each and draw_each and put them somewhere not in a class.
 
8:20 PM
Yes. I am just not certain where the line is.
 
What line?
 
Write a ManagerManager and have it do everything
 
and of course the ManagerManagerManager to manage the ManagerManager.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Both moved to TS
 
What's TS again?
 
8:24 PM
@Jefffrey For whether to do it or not. When it is or isn't acceptable.
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Technical Specification, the new TR.
 
am I the only one that enjoys listening to demoscene music while programming ? xD
 
@Pawnguy7 Use an object only when you feel like it better explain the kind of thing you are describing, not by default. A good sign of a class that shouldn't be a class is a class who's name is stupid (like XManager).
 
Woa. Managed to coax a team of people I don't know into going all mid.
 
this dog's cute
 
8:31 PM
Indeed.
"cute" is his main property.
 
@Jefffrey Well, that seems to mostly describe things that are often singleton in nature. For example, handling game states. What do you call it?
 
@Pawnguy7 Group of free functions to handle game states.
 
@Jefffrey I am not very good with such things :D not sure why...
 
How is it that I can get "unresolved symbol" on a method marked with __declspec(dllimport)?
 
How should functions be grouped? I feel it is odd just leaving them hanging out there in the public.
 
8:39 PM
Alphabetically.
Make a.cpp, b.cpp, c.cpp etc
 
Is there a way to get framerate for a movie when using WPF? don't love pInvoke
 
@Pawnguy7 Like you would in the XManager class.
 
@Jefffrey Just in their own file?
 
yes
 
How would that translate to C#?
 
8:42 PM
wat
 
user1804599
Not sure how I’m going to deal with names declared after being used in my compiler.
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 Put them in namespaces.
 
user1804599
Or yeah in their own files.
 
user1804599
> Multi-pass compilers are sometimes called wide compilers
 
user1804599
@DeadMG is the Wide compiler a wide compiler? :)
 
8:52 PM
...
 
Ell
Only fools and horses is just gold
 
I wonder why I make everything an object.
10
 
user1804599
 
@Pawnguy7 It's ok man. We all have been there.
 
user1804599
Let's write a compiler!
 
8:58 PM
@Jefffrey you have?
 
Absolutely.
 
I think I used them a bit like namespaces sometimes.
For example, the Collision bit.
I don't think I have ever made a project with a namespace yet.
 
You just opened your eyes to a whole new world of free functions and objects. Enjoy. :)
And "Best use of reinterpret_cast" goes to... user1974356. Congrats.
 
Is it me, or should sf::Vector2i have an implicit cast (the operator) to sf::Vector2f?
 
Xeo
Fuck implicit conversions
 
9:06 PM
Just you.
 
Downsides?
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 No.
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 You’ll run into annoying crap related to overloading and loss of information (converting integer to float bleh).
 
What is bad about integer to float?
 
Ell
Some values can't be represented
 
9:09 PM
@Pawnguy7 It just doesn't make sense. If it would be, why would we have two different types in the first place?
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 If you convert an integer to a float, the float may not represent exactly the same value.
 
@not-rightfold Yes. But if the caller requires a float, it requires a float. How are you supposed to fix the inaccuracy manually?
 
user1804599
The point is that it doesn’t happen implicitly when you don’t intend it to happen.
 
user1804599
This is exactly why implicit conversions are bad.
 
9:10 PM
@Jefffrey It is a templated type I believe, but it makes sense. Window coordinates, for example, are integers (where it is positioned).
 
user1804599
Data types exist for a reason.
 
user1804599
Hey why not use a string for everything.
 
I cannot think of how a int-float conversation could ever bite you, if you know how floats work.
 
@Pawnguy7: Loss of precision?
 
@wilx In cases where loss of precision matters, you are wary - for example, taking an int instead.
 
9:16 PM
And that's when the implicit conversion somewhere bites you in the ass.
 
Ell
@pawnguy if the conversion is implicit, it doesn't matter what you take
 
Perhaps this is the kind of lesson best learned after debugging it for hours.
@Ell I was referring to that in situations where you don't care.
 
@Pawnguy7 for the record, sf::Vector2i is just a typedef of sf::Vector2<int>.
So you're asking for sf::Vector2<int> to implicitly convert to sf::Vector2<float>, which is kinda weird
 
Why is it weird?
 
@Pawnguy7 and for the situation when you do care? If you define an implicit conversion it must be good for all cases.
 
Is "joining" two arrays generally considered a O(1) operation?
 
Ell
@pawnguy but how do you differentiate between when you care and when you don't?
 
Like join([1, 2, 3], [6, 7, 8]) = [1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8]?
 
Does anyone here dislike UDLs?
 
@Jefffrey How could it be O(1) ?
 
9:23 PM
-4
A: Separate the alphabet and digit such that their relative order remains the same in O(n) time and O(1) space

Alma Do MundoIn terms of time (not memory) this can be easily achieved with one full scan of original array: For i from 0 to N-1 do: if array[i] is letter, put it to letters array and if not - to digits array Join letters and digits arrays. That's it: O(n) for time, O(2n) for memory (that is because in fa...

 
@EtiennedeMartel WTF?!
 
@Ell That might be a problem, I suppose.
 
@wilx Pretty intense.
 
@Jefffrey O(1) space, I assume means you can only allocate 1 temporary character while doing the reordering. Wheres the join in that? its one array
 
@Borgleader I linked the answer, not the question.
 
9:26 PM
basically std::stable_partition with is_digit
@Jefffrey Yeah and I'm referring to Like join([1, 2, 3], [6, 7, 8]) = [1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8]?
 
Ell
@rapptz I don't see the need for them
I can't think of a use case
 
@Borgleader In C/C++ I imagine it to be O(n).
 
easier construction
std::chrono::seconds(1) vs 1s
etc
 
Ell
I guess, but it seems very niche to me
 
@Jefffrey If the result needs to be array-like (contiguous memory) it's O(N). If you can deal with something on the order of a "ragged deque" where you can just add a pointer to the array to one end of the current block of pointers, then it can be done in O(1) [but accessing the data afterward will be something like O(log N) instead of O(1)]. That also, of course, assumes move-like semantics. If you need to preserve the original as a separate item, you still need to copy, so O(n).
 
9:30 PM
@JerryCoffin I was thinking about contiguous memory, yes. Great explanation, thanks. :)
 
How about this:
setPosition functions take both sf::Vector2f, and float, float.
setSize (or constructors that do the same) only take sf::Vector2f.
 
Ell
Why can't set size take two floats?
 
I don't know.
 
Ell
Duck typing would be superior
 
To what?
 
Ell
9:42 PM
To taking combinations of int/float/vecf/veci
...the calm before the storm?
 
You can at most reduce it to number/vector concepts. But then again you can also do that with implicit int->float conversion
 
Ell
I think a number concept would be most ideal
 
Still two overloads.
Vectors are not numbers.
 
user1804599
I’m going to write my compiler in Perl.
 
9:48 PM
You could get rid of pure number overloads and just take vectors
Since the number ones are basically this anyway
But this is nothing ~duck typing~ can make better or even enable or whatever
 
Ell
Two overloads isn't so bad
@not-rightfold another compiler?
 
user1804599
Another one.
 

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