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2:00 PM
this time next yar, I believe
 
Within this century.
 
sbi
@hexa I think they'll give their best to release it smoothly, rather than roughly.
 
two roughly jokes in one, nice
 
@sbi It's MS, so I bet on the roughness of it!
 
I wonder if it will have support for POO, PILE OF out of the box.
 
sbi
2:01 PM
@hexa Actually they have become much better than their reputation.
@MartinhoFernandes It wouldn't be my foremost concern.
 
hmmm
2.7GB of temp files
can I just delete them all?
 
Sure, I don't want any one.
 
sbi
Anyway, I upgraded from Win95/OSR2 to NT4, then to Win2k until they stopped making drivers for that, only very reluctantly switched to XP, and firmly clung to it through the whole Vista debacle, until I switched to Win 7 last year mainly in order to be able (with 64bit) to make use of above 3.8MB RAM. I don't plan to upgrade to Win8 anytime soon.
@DeadMG I usually sort them by date and delete anything older than the last time I booted my machine.
 
man
Windows taking up 22GB on my SSD
 
@DeadMG I just run CCleaner and have it decide what temp files to get rid of.
 
sbi
2:06 PM
@DeadMG On Windows, it's not "man", but "winhelp.exe". I think.
 
Gosh, what a lame joke.
 
@sbi Hey thanks for the advice. I've been coding too. Do you have any good ideas for projects?
 
sbi
@tanner What advice are you talking about?
 
I'd post a link that explains it, but then people would call me a freak.
 
Like 5 hours ago you said something to me. Just forgot to log out.
 
2:08 PM
ARGH
why did you recommend CCleaner?
it cleaned out all my Chrome history
now Chrome won't auto-complete commonly visited URLs for me
 
you did not look at the options it has? You can chose to not have it clean history
 
Two words: bookmarks.
 
I clicked "Go"
 
ccleaner has options for temporary data like that.
 
2:09 PM
still, so far I've cleaned nearly 20GB
 
Always configure things before clicking go....
 
exactly lol
 
@MartinhoFernandes That's all right. We all think you're a freak anyway. :-) (As if I had any room to talk on that subject...)
 
ok
out of the 35GB I'm using, Windows is 21.9 of it
 
sbi
@tanner Oh. Well, next time you might want to correctly refer to what you're talking about. Anyway, whatever I said to you, you're very welcome. :)
 
2:11 PM
@sbi Actually, winhelp has been dead for a quite some time.
 
@sbi Haha, thanks.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Don't worry. We all know you're a robot anyway. So go ahead, don't suppress your urges, and just post that damned link.
 
@CatPlusPlus Supposedly replaced, but not exactly dead (still available as a separate download). Unfortunately, the replacement is clearly inferior in quite a few ways.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Did I ever mention (no, not that, @Martinho) that I'm old?
 
7 hours ago, by sbi
@tanner If you are a C++ beginner, code as much as possible, ask as much as possible, read as much as possible. And you need a good book. Beware, there's many bad ones out there.
Ok, here it is :)
 
sbi
2:13 PM
@MartinhoFernandes See, wasn't that hard, was it? And we all still like you, you droid.
 
And I'm not a robot. I'm proud of my ability to pass Turing tests.
 
@MartinhoFernandes How does "I'm a really good robot" equate to "I'm not a robot"?
 
@JerryCoffin Available, but it's not completely safe or something. I don't remember.
 
sbi
@DeadMG Are you trying to tell us that you, following a thrown-away recommendation in some chat, downloaded and installed an app unknown to you and immediately started it by clicking on "go", without even having a cursory look at its options before?? (Didn't you, just mins ago, boast "I'm a programmer, too!", or does my memory play tricks again?)
 
CHM is meh, but it works good enough.
 
2:16 PM
@sbi Probably someone else. I proclaimed myself a genius. However, I trusted my fellow chatter's recommendation
 
@CatPlusPlus It never was completely safe. I believe most of the move to the HTML-based help was to support the claim that IE was part of the OS.
 
besides, it did work exactly as advertised- just a little too well for me :P
 
sbi
@DeadMG That opens the door to a real wealth of totally new meanings for the word "genius".
 
(Note to self, get Dead to download something, extort money somehow.)
 
@MartinhoFernandes Same advice I would give to a person starting to play a competitive game.
 
2:18 PM
lol
 
I still prefer real docs on the web, instead of CHMs, PDFs or whatever.
 
I like reading them on dead trees.
Screw the environment.
 
Dead trees are great!
 
Dead trees have no search.
Because, well, they're dead.
 
@MartinhoFernandes you're keeping CO2 bound in those books, that's good for the environment. Just don't burn it. ;)
 
2:19 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Actually, making paper is arguably good for the environment: it captures that carbon, and keeps it from being released. Oh darn - jalf beat me to it.
 
Really?
Wow.
I need to do some research on that.
Now I have a comeback when my friends pester me about that.
 
Still, no search.
 
Is there a C++ book out there that goes through C++ from hello world to meta programing in the most technically accurate way as possible? (that is not the spec)
 
I'm a robot, remember? I can grep paper.
 
It's pretty logical. Wood is basically carbon + other stuff. Burn wood, and carbon comes out. Keep it on a shelf, and the carbon is stuck inside it
 
2:20 PM
I like books. I cannot stand reading an actual book on a kindle or pdf or something.
 
there's no magic :D
 
In any case, I have to agree with the problems due to lack of search. It depends on the kind of book though: for references, poor search is almost deadly. For things that most cover concepts, and you're going to largely read through them, it's much less of a problem.
 
Well, you don't need search on a novel, but documentation without it?
 
By actual book I meant novel or somethings similar. A textbook or documentation is fine in pdf, since I do not read them for extended periods of time.
 
@jalf "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Therefore, anything that's not magic is (by definitely) "insufficiently advanced technology".
 
2:23 PM
Damn windows has crashed when I tried to ask it to uninstall shit
 
@JerryCoffin I'm not sure that holds. "indistinguishable from" doesn't mean "is the same as"
@DeadMG It's probably a defense mechanism
 
@jalf I'm not sure I agree.
 
"do not turn off your computer" great advice when it's doing jack
 
@Collecter I find it depends heavily on the monitor. Before I got my current monitor I agreed vehemently. I've read several novels on this one (in portrait rotation) quite comfortably though.
 
Restarting seems to have done the trickles, for 14% anyway
 
2:26 PM
@JerryCoffin The strain may not be too much, but I like holding the book in my hands. I can normally get absorbed in a story for hours on end. On a computer it is much less a continuous read for me.
 
Yeah, I can't focus on a PDF'd book.
I keep Alt-Tabbing.
Internet is too distracting.
 
20GB ought to be enough, right?
 
@DeadMG for what?
 
a Windows 8 leaked build
 
Man, regex is like a religion for some people
 
2:30 PM
maybe. :D
 
I really need to learn regex better.
 
argh
there's 25GB free, but I can only partition off 9GB?
 
Defragment and move the data to the beginning.
 
that's what I'm doing
I thought that Windows since XP defragged in the background?
 
Can SSD still get fragmented?
 
2:32 PM
friday!
 
Dunno, but it certainly doesn't move data.
It's not suitable for background defrag.
Disk type has nothing to do with fragmentation.
 
@Collecter yes, it can
 
It's filesystem issue.
 
i remember when I defragged in win98, and the screensaver started after an hour of waiting for it to finish...
 
apparently, my backups drive is 0% fragmented
 
2:33 PM
and "restarting defragging because disk changed..."
 
JkDefrag/MyDefrag can move data.
 
defragging hasn't worked right since DOS
 
Er, what?
 
Alright.
 
@CodeMonkey Leave out the "since DOS", and that becomes even more accurate.
 
2:34 PM
since they took DOS away in 95 I think, you could never defrag
 
hmmm
 
I remember booting right into DOS (killing Windows completely) and running defrag
 
apparently, I've got 40GB of unsorted backups
 
I've never had problem. It's the system tools that are lacking.
 
2:34 PM
you can't do that
 
500GB of TV
 
MyDefrag can be run on a live system without any problems.
 
remember the little ASCII blocks (I think they were blue or green, can't remember that's going back to at least 1994).
 
blue
they were blue
 
And 9x line was overall crappy to begin with.
 
2:35 PM
and the bad data was black or something.. those little blocks would get moved around as your ran defrag.. took 30mins to an hour or so
 
@Collecter Of course, it just doesn't affect performance the same way
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes No need to research that. It's certainly bullshit. (The CO2 is also bound in the trees, and turning them into paper wastes probably more than what's bound in the paper.)
@ÓlafurWaage I used to give a C++ course to students, doing exactly that, and I'm not aware of a book backing me up on that.
 
@jalf I knew it wouldn't affect performance, and so was asking if it was needed. Never bother to look up how SSD actually stores it
 
@sbi Seems like research is warranted after all. I was already given two conflicting opinions.
 
I'm making a new rule
no more getting pissed over downvotes
life is too short
 
2:37 PM
@sbi but if you have a book on your shelf, it means you've captured more CO2 than if you didn't have a book on your shelf. It's all a matter of perspective. ;)
 
sbi
Anyway, if any of you has trouble getting out of bed in the morning, 113 db should really do: sonicalert.com/products-alarm-clocks-SBB500ss.html
 
Oh, the neighbors.
 
lol
 
And way too expensive.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah. 113db is equivalent to a jet airplane.
You could turn it down, though. :)
 
2:40 PM
I don't need it.
 
the bed vibrator thing sounds fun
 
If I don't stay up late, I wake up early.
 
@sbi I find that a 20 month-old yelling "daddy" from 2 inches away from my ear is quite adequate.
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb Why am I not surprised you say that?
 
@JerryCoffin Unfortunately, those are hard to find on supermarkets.
 
2:43 PM
@MartinhoFernandes and they cost more than 45$
 
@sbi i don't know. perhaps you like bad vibrators too and thought I feel similar
 
@Francis ...but a bargain at twice the price!
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Ha! My youngest is 4 now, and she's already old enough to sneak in and out the bedroom. After more than a decade of little children, what a relief!
 
@JohannesSchaublitb What the hell does that sentence mean?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes But you can easily make one yourself.
 
2:45 PM
@sbi "Easily"?
I need to make a partnership with a willing female for at least 9 months.
 
ok
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes You don't expect me to explain the technique to you now, do you?
 
what the fuck, Windows? Why can I only shrink it by 9GB?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes I think you have some serious misunderstanding about that business of making kids. 9mins will do. And I'm not kidding.
 
@sbi No, that won't get me a kid. For clarity, I'm male, I can't get pregnant.
 
2:46 PM
hey, my code compiles again! Anyone wanna bet on whether or not it actually works too?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes You would need partnership with a willing female for 9mins to sire a child.
 
I bet 5.
 
lol
 
sbi
@DeadMG You keep saying that.
 
yeah
cause I just defragged the drive, and there's 25GB free
 
2:48 PM
ok, here's a hint: it doesn't
 
sbi
@DeadMG Never frag your drive.
@jalf We already knew.
 
@jalf Pay up.
 
@sbi And then I have to convince her to come back after 9 months and let me keep the little bugger. Is that easy?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes You mean for her to give up, or for you to cope with?
 
@MartinhoFernandes You still have a child, whether or not you ever meet him/her
 
2:49 PM
@MartinhoFernandes what don't you understand of that sentence?
a bed vibrator is something that makes the bed vibrate
 
sbi
@jalf We were discussing the merits of a child as a replacement for an alarm clock. For that, the child should have access to your bedroom.
 
@sbi or just have your phone number
 
Now that you put it like that... it doesn't sound very good.
 
ok, let me fix that typo, maybe it'll run better then
 
sbi
@jalf Phones don't have any advantages over alarm clocks. They can be turned off, too.
 
2:51 PM
You want an alarm clock that wakes you up at a predetermined time.
A child will wake you up when you least desire it.
 
Just rig a contraption to set your bed on fire every day at the same time. I guarantee you will be up in a hurry.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes As long as "waaayyy toooo eeeaaarlyyyy" is Ok for you... There's a lot of predetermination in that if you use a child as an alarm clock.
 
@Collecter No need to get deadly.
The point is to wake up, not to never wake up again.
 
@Collecter Warm a man by your fire and he's warm for a few minutes. Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life!
12
 
@sbi and then one day the kid won't wake you up till way to late.
 
2:53 PM
Warm being a gross understatement.
 
@MartinhoFernandes It is not deadly. You are right there to put it out.
 
Kids always wake up too early
unless they are sick
 
@JerryCoffin That's both creepy and hilarious
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Yeah, but by then you'll yearn for that so badly, that it will do no harm.
 
@CodeMonkey they then stay awake. That's worse.
 
2:54 PM
@JerryCoffin Brilliant.
 
I love the man on fire quote :D
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin A very short rest of his life, that is.
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: it's not funny to flag people
 
no crashes or test failures yet!
 
What, it works?
Magic.
 
@Collecter If you have a good sprinkler system, it can even be put out without your doing much -- and a good spray of freezing water might help with waking you up too.
 
2:55 PM
It is quite funny to frag people.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I didn't say that. But it hasnt failed yet
either that, or it's failed by entering an infinite loop
 
@sbi Well, yes, but all of it toasty warm! :-)
@CatPlusPlus Unfortunately, I can't claim credit for it. (I'm not the resident genius...)
 
It's from Pratchett, I think.
 
@JerryCoffin I am
He says, as his machine reboots itself for funsies
 
sbi
@DeadMG It's pretty lame for a genius having to edit even a two-word sentence to fix errors.
 
2:59 PM
Ah, yes, it's from Jingo.
 
sbi
Both SO and MSO are dead for me.
 
Not really. Being a genius is defined as being insanely smart some of time, and says nothing about the rest of the time
 
oh hey, I really think it works
 
@jalf It's probably just teasing you.
 
3:02 PM
Specially when its just a mishit key or two
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Pah! Now it's up again for me, too!
 
@DeadMG by whose definition?
 
@sbi ok thanks. How did it work?
 
@DeadMG you are a genius, or a Geniusâ„¢?
 
The genius's definition, obviously
 
3:04 PM
obviously
 
Both?
 
sbi
@ÓlafurWaage Since I was doing it for many years in the same setting, I suppose they must not have had reason to fire me.
 
Man, my phone doesn't have a tm button
 
Copy-paste it.
Here, have one: â„¢.
 
It doesn't seem to want to copy paste
Nor zoom in or out
 
sbi
3:07 PM
 
@sbi Using GCC or other compilers?
 
I'll tell you when I'm back in chrome and can view that link
 
sbi
@ÓlafurWaage They had VC pre-installed in the lab, and the students could download VC Express for free.
 
So then, launching me some windows 8
 
3:08 PM
@sbi Ok, thanks.
 
All you need is love.
And me.
 
> Not the most intelligent of Pictsies, Wullie is nonetheless one of Chalk Hill Clan's best thieves, although every mission he been in charge of has been a failure. Often making suggestions like "Can we swim there?" after another has said it's too far to walk, he hasn't many good ideas, but is always trying to contribute, and 'show willin.'
Hmm.
 
I'd rather have love on it's own, thanks
 
Hello all, I am just snooping around SO (I am a new member). /me reading the `newbie hints'.
2
 
3:11 PM
@JohnKaul Helloooo
 
@DeadMG Or, to (probably mis-)quote Dave Berry, "We're all idiots at least 80% of the time."
 
I'm amazed that someone came here and started reading the newbie hints.
2
 
@jalf, I just recreated my CV, woah looking quite different now.
 
None of the regulars ever read the hints, so you're to a good start
 
@TonyTheTiger cool
 
3:12 PM
@DeadMG I did.
 
can I see? :D
 
Me too martinho
 
And I have a bunch of typos to report.
 
@jalf yea I'll email it, just gotta review your notes again, and see if I missed important bits :P
 
lol nebies never read the FAQ's huh? Thanx. Also please be patient with me; i havent been in a CHAT since IRC.
 
3:14 PM
This is not a chat, this is rock-and-roooollllll.
 
This one isn't too similar, for example you can edit messages
 
sbi
@DeadMG I regularly read them.
 
@sbi you wrote them.
 
Only cause you wrote them :p
 
Why would he read them regularly if he wrote them?
 
3:15 PM
I read the newbie hints
to find out if I was a newbie, but it didn't say :(
 
Tony, you're a failure, go
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Because I regularly enhance them?
 
HahahahA
 
@DeadMG oh thanks for your honesty
 
Where's the issue tracker? I have three tickets to register.
 
3:16 PM
The win 8 desktop says
 
sbi
In the end, it will turn out that @Dead is the only regular who's not read the newbie hints.
 
Let's not leak our hard work
 
@sbi If he really is a genius, he doesn't need to.
 
@sbi I'm not at all sure I have, but I'm pretty sure I was here before @sbi got around to writing them...
 
I'm not saying he is, though.
 
sbi
3:17 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Then he should read then twice. Thrice. Ah, make that a ten.
 
@MartinhoFernandes he claims to be
 
@MartinhoFernandes How would that follow?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I think you were around when I came here for the first time. And I think you've been around when we first explored how things work here.
 
Geniusness and newbieness are incompatible, no?
 
@sbi So you're sure things do work here? :-)
 
sbi
3:19 PM
@JerryCoffin I don't think I ever said that. I was just mentioning us exploring, not understanding.
 
I'm surely not.
Although I'm not sure if I can be considered "a thing".
 
So is everyone in here a developer? And just so you know, I am not. I actually work in Engineering (buildings and stuff) as a sort of IS or IT guy but i have been trying to learn programming for years to make a career change (I think).
 
@kbok What now we have two residents claiming they're not robots?
 
I'm a student, and the resident Geniusâ„¢
 
@JerryCoffin I changed my name on SO to reflect that, but the chat refuses to update it.
 
3:21 PM
@JohnKaul Hmm...maybe, but if so, "developer" must be a fairly all-encompassing word. :-)
 
although don't expect too much right now, I'm playing games with Windoze
can't even get Chrome to play a YouTube video
 
@DeadMG Oh well we should get along fine. Although im just gifted.
 
Flash not working? IMPOSSIBLE.
 
@JerryCoffin If I'm a robot, I'm a very advanced one, with a lot of flaws.
 
it displays the video just fine
yay, my other screen is back andworking!
 
3:24 PM
@JerryCoffin lol I have been hearing some horror stories about being a `developer'. Not so sure i want to make a career change after some of the stories i hear.
 
@JohnKaul Support specialists have better horror stories though.
 
sbi
@JohnKaul Are you the guy mentioned in this question? :)
 
@JohnKaul Honestly, being a developer for most decent companies isn't bad at all. A few (games places, especially) generate a lot of horror stories.
 
@jalf mail incoming :)
 
> Pete was famous for his workarounds. Often, this meant solving a problem that didn't exist with the worst possible solution.
Oh, I'm not trying to scare @John away.
 
3:34 PM
damn
I can't find anything about the supposed WinRT mentioned in the Ars article
and Windows 8 blows, it won't even turn on transparent taskbar without a totally unhelpful error message or play audio from Flash
 
click-click ...thanx for the link. looks like a good read @sbi.
 
You probably need an SDK to write code for it.
 
Ars article said that each leak contained a more complete version
 
sbi
@DeadMG Actually, did you know you're not supposed to run Win8 on your phone?
 
3:36 PM
@DeadMG Binaries.
Probably no headers.
 
@sbi I'm not, I'm running it on mah desktop
@MartinhoFernandes I've poked through the System files for them, too, and didn't find anything
found .NET, typically
and wtf, these permissions
I don't even have permissions to view my own Windows folder?
 
Try with some kind of COM class browser or something.
@DeadMG That sounds good.
 
and it doesn't even apply to subfolders, so I can't view that
and there's this really annoying gunk on my taskbar and I can't get rid of it
and the desktop, too
it has this annoying tablet PC input thing, OK, except it knows that I have no touch input, and even when you try to close it, it just moves it somewhere else on the screen and it doesn't go away
 
Side note (from that link @sbi): SICP (structure and intrep.) was a great book. My first language was AutoLisp (roughly based on Scheme).
 
whew, thank you task manager
 
3:40 PM
@DeadMG Honestly, you can't expect it to be perfect. After all it's not even a beta build.
 
yeah, I fixed most of that stuff I was complaining about, they just moved some settings and I found them again
 
@DeadMG So did you loose a bet or something (why are you messing with Windows if you have to). j/k I was trying my hand at some dry humor.
 
because
there was an Ars article about a new C++ runtime being shipped with Windows 8
I want to determine the truth behind this
 
Man do I disagree with Joel there. Back in the day when I started of learning to program. I would have never been able to go through those books and I would have then thought that I would never become a programmer. I just started with a simpler language and worked my way up from there.
 
@DeadMG ah, got cha. any luck?
 
3:44 PM
@ÓlafurWaage I started with books on Basic from the Library when I was 12
 
sbi
@JohnKaul What's got luck to do with him? He's a genius.
 
lol sorry i forgot.
 
it's resisting my efforts for now
 
@CodeMonkey Aye, I think Joel is too stuck on "what worked for him must be gospel"
 
hmmmm
 
3:48 PM
hmm
I found a twinapi and a TWINUI
 
what's that for?
 
a little googling says not Windows RT
 
Find seems to think that there are no reigstered COM objects related to DirectUI or WinRT
 
2 hours ago, by sbi
@ÓlafurWaage This room is so incredibly good in coming up with so many great, unique statements, except for @Tony's fixation on sex this would make very little difference.
@sbi I have a fixation on sex? Woah, didn't know that :P
 
3:53 PM
Here he goes again on, with the sex thing.
2
 
@TonyTheTiger All normal people do. Celibacy is not hereditary.
 
I agree with Joel for the most part but I spent almost 10 years with a procedural language and i regret the time. I wish i started with something a little more low level like C. However my skills and outlook did change when I read SICP.
 
@JerryCoffin Are there any studies on that?
 
haven't said anything at all today about it, have to mention it at least once
I'll shut up now
 
3:54 PM
C is a pretty terrible language, really
 
@JerryCoffin You're not married are you?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There were people trying to study it in practice in the middle ages, but the study only lasted one generation.
@JohnKaul AAMOF, I am.
 
@DeadMG why? Cause of the memory management issues?
 
how about safety issues in general?
 
@JohnKaul no, cause he says so, he's a genius remember?
 
3:55 PM
the C standard library is abysmally unsafe in pretty much every regard
and the language makes implicit a whole bunch of totally unsafe things
 
buffer overflows, printf, you name it
 
@TonyTheTiger CRAP! Sorry, i keep forgetting that.
 
don't forget it again
 
lol
 
ok
this is BS
 
3:57 PM
Write it in stone and stick it on your desk
 
sbi
@JohnKaul You should never forget about buffer overflows. In C, they hit you the moment you avert your eyes.
 
I'm gonna boot into Windows 7 and clean this crap off my drive
 
woah I learned a new use of the word "avert", cool :)
 
Als
What have I missed?
 
nothing much
someone flagging someone
 

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