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14:02
is it legal now to do something like class T { int x; decltype(x) f() { return x; } };?
user1804599
It has always worked for me.
I'm having problems with an "EXC_BAD_ACCESS". A vector of vectors is throwing it, but when I debug, nothing seems wrong. I'm using Xcode, and it refuses to give me index and line info.
I can print the data to be used just before I get BAD ACCESS.
user1804599
UB.
Stop using Xcode.
user1804599
Xcode is irrelevant.
user1804599
14:08
Your code is bad because you are trying to access memory that you did not allocate.
I don't have much choice :p
user1804599
There are thousands of editors. Of course you have much choice.
Yes I know that's what's technically happening, but I can clearly see how the vector is filled.
user1804599
SSCCE or we cannot help.
14:10
Yes, of course I have :) And I'm only using it for C++. The problem is that Mac has a lot of issues with compilers that I work around using xcode
you're right about the sscce. I'll get working on that. also, I hate xcode ;)
user1804599
GCC 4.9 works when I invoke it from Z shell on OS X without problems for me.
I'll try it. I have 4.2 and a few others
user1804599
lol GCC 4.2
I think its what got shipped
user1804599
Install Gentoo.
14:13
I've downloaded others though. The shipped ones were a hassle
14:28
well the SSCCE is working. I'll go with UB.
@not-rightfold LOL. GCC's latest version is already 4.9? When did it come out?
@not-rightfold Wat. 4.9? The latest is 4.8.1. ...
user1804599
Probably beta or something do I know it works.
If I foreach a vector, does it still return things by reference?
user1804599
for (auto& x : myVector) {
    // x is a reference
}
Ah. That was the problem.
Is this the same for arrays? (raw, not std::array).
14:45
I just found out there is a reddit about C++. My life is ruined.
Let's see how deep this goes.
> I am one of those who consider C and C++ to be completely different languages.
good start!
Ah, he knows the difference between undefined and unspecified. This is going to be great.
He also knows the difference between sequence points and sequenced-before.
> Why did Scythe Master put lube on Eren?
@StackedCrooked Is this a joke? If so, I don't get it.
15:00
It was asked here. I saw the anime but don't remember that scene at all.
Looking it up now :)
@not-rightfold I solved the bad access. Had an uninitialized vector a few rows down that caused a null reference. I thought such an error would give an exception
> Of course they are. In fact, they're so easy that they're the only one of the Design Patterns that people talk about.
:)
Global audio manager? Sounds like me haha.
> You could pass around a context to all of your functions. But that's the answer right there, isn't it? You then have to pass around a context for everything. I believe it adds too much typing.
programmers.txt
15:09
design patterns are overrated
some interviewers ask questions about design patterns without understand design patterns themselves
> You should be addressing startup and shutdown issues with singletons with an initializer and finalizer functions. You can call your intializers in the order you need them to be called. And the same thing at shutdown. This actually gives you two chances to do initialization and destruction.
You should not be talking about programming.
Sounds like karma.
@Pawnguy7 Nearly every religion includes it in some form (often happening in some afterlife).
@StackedCrooked At first I thought the world worked like that.
Karma is one of those concepts that sounds nice but has absurd logical consequences.
Then I saw that Activision is still in operations.
@EtiennedeMartel lol
15:32
limbo = UB?
if(heaven == true && hell == false)
// then an uninitiated bool must be in limbo
is it alright to post c++ questions here in general? (I just did, and I saw lots of people do it before me, but still)
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ It's okay, but start with Stack Overflow first.
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ It works out better if you've been active in here for a while and even then, everyone can still ignore it.
user1804599
Added (very crappy) oneboxing to Lounge<Chat> frontend: rightfold.org/lc.
C++ questions that are interesting are more likely to get some attention, but again, Stack Overflow first.
15:39
@chris yes of course they can :) just wondering if it's frowned upon :), @Insilico I'm aware of SO :)
the problem is that SO has become quite hostile :)
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ Just think of Lounge<C++> as a chatroom of a bunch of people who just happen to know something about C++.
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ You will find Lounge<C++> to be even more hostile at times. :-P
@Insilico great, that's how I wanted it to be
hah :) I can handle it
I'm new to C++, but not to programming. So, I want to be yelled at
user1804599
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ DON'T USE C++.
user1804599
15:41
What that a good yell?
nope. and unclear
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ It's a joke.
user1804599
It's not a joke.
user1804599
It's suicide prevention.
15:42
Ignore not-rightfold. :-P
C++ is bad for you
C++, not even once
sure is, but in my upcoming AI and operating system courses it's required
Ignore those C++ haters, embrace C++ \o/
I already hate all the compiling issues. I like the performance gain though
however, I do have a question!
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ Stack Overflow
:-)
15:46
it's scary to ask newbie questions there. however, I'm gonna try around for a while
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ Lounge<C++> is not better in that respect.
user1804599
Ask on /g/.
well it doesn't go on my permanent profile :)
/g/?
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ Nobody cares.
@Insilico I know what you mean, but I care :p
user1804599
user1804599
learn to google.
I forgot to buy batteries for the controller. :<
Lounge<C++> is a terrifying place.
@Kᴇʏsᴇʀ Then stop caring.
@not-rightfold I don't see how that google search is helpful :)
15:47
Well, except when Jerry's here talking about sex and shit.
user1804599
learn to read google results.
ah, 4chan
@MohammadAliBaydoun I resent that. I never talk about shit.
2
Thank universe for that
user1804599
Fuck.
user1804599
15:48
There's vla in my beard.
Give me a couple more years; when I turn 80, then I'll probably start talking about my bowel movements...
int a = 0;
a = a = 0;   // Is this still UB in C++11?
I assure you that it's easier to ask you to clarify your 3 char search than to actually search for it :) (and I'm a RTFM/google it guy myself)
user1804599
Variable-length beard.
@JerryCoffin when you are 80, Cat++ would be 50+
I would be 60 something :'(
15:50
When you're 80, I'll still be 48 :O - Of course, I sit down too much and my diet is terrible, so I may not live past the 50-60 range
guys, can anyone enlight me hot to run mingw automake
coz the automake file seems to be for nix, its not runnable
user1804599
@rgripper No. Ask on Stack Overflow.
user1804599
No. There are no excuses.
user1804599
No.
okok
15:52
@FredOverflow "In all cases, the assignment is sequenced after the value computation of the right and left operands, and before the value computation of the assignment expression." At least as I read it, that means the a = a = 0; has defined behavior.
Not sequencing chained assignments is not really possible, because of the data dependency.
Not not marvel at my double negative proficiency.
user1804599
Hey.
@CatPlusPlus C and C++03 still made it officially UB.
Need to keep that portability to time-travel-capable architectures.
@not-rightfold Straw. Oats. Oh wait -- you said "hey", not "hay". Sorry -- for a second there, I thought we were doing free-form association.
16:02
@JerryCoffin cool thx
And your first association wasn't "sex"?
@FredOverflow Surely.
I'm disappointed.
user1804599
I need a rack.
@CatPlusPlus Amazingly enough, no, not this time.
16:02
@not-rightfold Why? You're not a woman.
I could use a data center.
@FredOverflow Presumably wants to torture somebody.
@JerryCoffin I guess not-rightfold is into that sort of thing.
user1804599
I mean a server rack you fools.
Look at dat 6U.
16:04
@not-rightfold Oh, so you're into that sort of thing.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Buy one for Lounge<Chat>.
@Insilico He's running PHP, no wonder he needs a whole rack.
user1804599
We'll have to store exabytes of data.
@not-rightfold You don't think that might be just a tiny bit premature?
@JerryCoffin No. Lounge<Chat> needs to be webscale.
user1804599
16:06
@JerryCoffin It's better to start big and scale down than the other way around.
I really want that 32GB RAM server.
But alas, not yet.
@not-rightfold Ah -- now I feel so foolish.
I don't know why, but I read that as "I feel so Swedish".
Seriously.
@CatPlusPlus How would it qualify as a server if it only has 32 GB of RAM?
I should look into those eye thingies.
user1804599
16:08
Shipracked.
@CatPlusPlus Now that you mention it, I am ready for breakfast, and a Danish sounds good.
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Same thing.
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus dat pun
user1804599
Hmm.
user1804599
You can get a server for almost free.
16:11
You can always get a server for almost free.
For varying sizes of "almost".
user1804599
> Intel Pentium III 933MHz. 640MB PC133 SDRAM. 40GB HDD. 64MB NVIDIA GeForce 2 AGP. 3Com 10/100Mbps PCI network card. Onboard sound card. DVD player. CD writer. 3.5" floppy drive. 2x USB.
user1804599
15 euros.
Maybe in 1996 it was a server.
user1804599
Linux Peppermint 4 preinstalled.
At one time, "server" meant "massive processor, memory, and disk capacity". Now it mostly means "low-end graphics".
user784668
16:14
So my phone is a server.
@Fanael It has high-end graphics?
user1804599
I'm looking for computer parts.
Sure, and you can make your Raspberry Pi as a server too.
@Fanael I know of a couple web sites being served off of phones.
user784668
@Insilico No.
16:14
Kimsufi constantly proves that consumer-grade hardware is not very good for servers.
XEON OR BUST
@CatPlusPlus "kimsufi"?
@CatPlusPlus how do they prove it?
Are they using consumer grade hardware?
It is not very good hardware.
user1804599
Core i7 3.5GHz
4×8GB DDR3 1.6GHz
256GB SSD
16:21
Are enums normally not named as plurals?
user784668
@StackedCrooked Yes.
user1804599
I want this. Not sure about graphics card, motherboard and case yet.
@Pawnguy7 I don't.
e.g. enum Color { Red, Black } color;
user1804599
I want a white case. I saw a nice one a while ago but I forgot which one it was.
Does seem to read nicer when you use it.
16:22
It doesn't make sense when you use the type in a variable declaration, IMO
enum Colors { Red, Black };
// later...
Colors color; // A collection of colors?
Don't name types plural-ly.
user784668
Colors implies Container<Color> to me.
Also true.
user1804599
Morons from my class made the name of a superclass plural because it had multiple subclasses. :|
user784668
lol
16:25
@not-rightfold lol
For snake, I plan to have multiple generation "modes".
user1804599
And instead of adding a property to those subclasses indicating the image of the player, they made multiple subclasses Player1, Player2 up to Player12.
@not-rightfold ...
@not-rightfold I guess they're not making an MMORPG anytime soon.
user1804599
Also, they weren't even players, but NPCs.
16:27
sadly, these kids want to do this for a living?
user784668
@not-rightfold Player12 inherits both Player1 and Player2? :P
Do they know what arrays are?
user1804599
@Fanael All inherit from Player.
@Fanael Player6 twice.
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 arrays are irrelevant.
16:27
Player8: I have 8 sets of HP suckas!
Not specifically relevant here, but seems sort of similar.
user1804599
class Player1 extends Player { @Override void draw() { drawImage("player1.png"); } }
class Player2 extends Player { @Override void draw() { drawImage("player2.png"); } }
class Player3 extends Player { @Override void draw() { drawImage("player3.png"); } }
// etc
user1804599
class Player extends Actor { String image; @Override void draw() { drawImage(image); } }
// I'd have done this
Never had to participate in a group project in school.. but from the sounds of it.. thank god.
user1804599
Sadly I couldn't fix it because I noticed it on the last day before the deadline and :effort:.
16:29
@not-rightfold But that requires an extra variable! OMGWTF.
user784668
@Insilico Yeah, think about the purrformance.
@not-rightfold Next time, require your teammates to do pair programming.
@Fanael That only happens when we inherit kittens, not players
user1804599
@Insilico What? The code will be twice as bad!
No longer need override then.
user1804599
16:30
@StackedCrooked Override from Actor.
@not-rightfold So just make yourself the second person in all the pair programming sessions. PROBLEM SOLVED.
user784668
@Insilico Then it'll be thrice as bad.
@Insilico That does not sound like a win
user1804599
Or delete all code on the day of deadline to rewrite it.
user1804599
@Insilico They wouldn't survive.
16:31
@Chemistpp Except that inheriting kittens increases purrformance.
@not-rightfold You could also do the rewrite before the deadline. Just saying.
lol
good catch Stacked
user1804599
@Insilico day of deadline ≠ deadline
user1804599
I deleted all code of our third school project and rewrote it from scratch one day before the deadline. :P
@not-rightfold Not if it's due at 12:01 AM that day. :-P
user1804599
16:33
@Insilico Uh.
user1804599
You still got one minute, you noob.
ctrl-v whats in your clipboard and hand it in, 30 seconds early.
most of the projects are designed so that they can be done quickly... once you realize how to do it... at least in my courses
@not-rightfold I've had an instructor where 12:01 AM did in fact mean 12:00 AM, mainly to avoid confusion between start of day and end of day (not sure if it actually made things less confusing.
frequently, an overhaul was necessary about 45 minutes before it was due...
@Insilico what a procrastinator. 11:59 p.m.
Like how sometimes you see deadlines around midnight written as "11:59 PM" and "12:01 AM" instead of "12:00 AM" for either of those.
@Chemistpp OMG IT'S DUE TWO MINUTES EARLIER THAN I THOUGHT FUCK.
user1804599
16:36
@Insilico If I were teacher all deadlines would be "<insert day here> before I check my mail."
@not-rightfold lol
@not-rightfold lol. I would do that, but then your email fills up with "Have you checked your email yet"
user784668
If I were a teacher, all deadlines would be "YESTERDAY U N00BZ".
user1804599
And then the first week I'd check my mail at 8 AM and the monday after that I'd check it at 0 AM.
I wouldn't be a teacher.
user1804599
16:37
I want to teach Java to people.
@not-rightfold sounds painful
user1804599
I'd tell them that Java is terrible and they should invest time into learning C#.
@not-rightfold So you're a sadist too?
@not-rightfold You should teach them Haskell first or something.
idk, I think straight to C++ is the way to go
user1804599
I should teach them to obey.
user1804599
16:38
@Chemistpp watno that's a horrible idea.
@not-rightfold Schools already do that today.
And of course destroy any potential in the process.
user1804599
Noisia is great.
It's the way my school had it set up. C++ for 2 semesters, then it goes into C/assembly to teach arcitecture
then I did chemistry.. but I know they learned some C# in there
user1804599
We got JavaScript, then Java, then R, then Java.
user1804599
Four horrible languages in one year. (The latter wasn't really Java; it was Android Java.)
user784668
16:41
Fuck you ninja.
I think the idea for my school was if you get C++, you can learn Java.
They didn't want to waste time teaching it
they only taught visual basic to dumbasses that had some comp. sci. requirement but for no reason why
user1804599
If you get C++, and you want Java, something is terribly wrong with you.
user1804599
It's like wanting to eat poop when you're used to pizza.
@not-rightfold At least Android has a decent user experience. Java on the desktop is shit.
I take your word for it. I have no interest in Java
user1804599
16:43
@Insilico Doesn't make development any good.
user1804599
Want to pass a variable from one screen to another? Ermahgard you can't do that no you need Serializable or static hurrdurr.
user1804599
And constructors are bad™.
user784668
@not-rightfold TBH, C++ is as crap as Java. Clearly you never used either.
user1804599
It's slightly less crappy.
user784668
Like, one Planck crapmeter less?
user1804599
16:47
erlanghgard
user784668
What was the command to close a buffer (not a window) in vim?
user1804599
:bd
btw @not-rightfold what did you want to use pgsql notifications for? Message routing?
user1804599
Perhaps.
user1804599
Dunno.
user1804599
16:52
I read the architecture documentation after posting the comment.
Maybe 0MQ.
This is pubsub basically.
user1804599
ØMQ is nice.
It should be an implementation detail anyway.
nvm, got deleted
@Fanael This is like saying that they both hurt, so a paper-cut is equivalent to being burnt at the stake.
user1804599
16:55
I don't really like DBMSes that don't give me integrity guarantees.
Yeah, eventual consistency makes me uneasy.
user1804599
And I don't really like MySQL and non-FOSS DBMSes, so the obvious DBMS for me is PostgreSQL.
user1804599
Although for Chat we should evaluate them.
user1804599
Not sure what the volume of messages will be, and how searching through them will work.
@not-rightfold Just curious, what language(s) is Lounge<Chat> being written in?
user1804599
16:57
PostgreSQL also has something like almost-exact searches (e.g. "fooing" would also look for "fooer" and "food").
user1804599
@Insilico The back-end server is in C#.
user1804599
I don't know about the web server.
user784668
@JerryCoffin Is it? I mean they score the same at the crap-o-meter, so it's more like "being burnt at the stake is equivalent to being burnt at the stake".
Lounge has 2M messages in ~3 years.
user1804599
The client probably in JavaScript (though I would love doing it in CoffeeScript or TypeScript; @CAT??!).
16:58
@Fanael If you see them as being even close on the crapmeter, then your crapmeter is clearly completely broken.
user1804599
Or Gear. :lol:
I have no strong preference either way. If you don't mind that annoying /// <ref> crap in TS then feel free.
I wanted to use C#, but that's untested ground.
user784668
@JerryCoffin Maybe. It says "OFF THE CHARTS" for both.

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