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Xeo
10:00 PM
@ThePhD Because you can embed it in Lua / call Terra from Lua, and because it's something new?
He's just playing around with it
 
@Xeo Oh, I see I see.
 
Xeo
(I still think he should try Haskell.)
 
Haskell looks fun but I still can't understand it fully.
 
Xeo
Learn learn learn.
 
Terra, TBH, just looks like less powerful C++.
 
Xeo
10:01 PM
Also, nobody expects you to fully understand it.
 
I thought Haskell was decent
 
@ThePhD it's way more powerful C++
 
Definitely don't wet my pants over it like everyone else here
 
or actually, C in which you can implement C++ and way more
@Xeo One day certainly.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm being torn apart. :x So is it UB or does it depend on context?
 
10:04 PM
@Tuntuni it's certainly not UB
I am looking for proper reference
 
@Tuntuni My advice: just don't allow it to happen, so you don't need to worry about the exact details of what might happen if you allow it. Graphics drivers are as open to bugs as anything else, so even if one behavior is "guaranteed", it's all too easy to find out that the guarantee isn't entirely upheld.
 
Xeo
lolz
 
... Lolwat.
 
Xeo
Also, man, Hank can talk fast.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, ok, thanks.
 
10:06 PM
so far I found that
> The data during blitting is converted according to simple rules. Blitting from a floating-point format to a normalized integer format will cause clamping, either to [0, 1] for unsigned normalized or [-1, 1] for signed normalized.
 
@JerryCoffin I see, but there's this "Further Study" section that says "Change the color value set by the fragment shader to different values. Use values in the range [0, 1], and then see what happens when you go outside that range."
Do you think the author wanted to let me see what happens on my particular GPU?
 
the point is, if you render to float framebuffer, it will render it alright
I am 99% sure that if you render floats to integer buffer, they will be clamped.
 
Alright. Well I guess the best thing is to never let it happen like @JerryCoffin said and not worry about it.
 
@Tuntuni Seems like a fair guess.
 
@Tuntuni what? no.
"never let it happen" might be a potentially costly operation
 
10:11 PM
Oh. Well for now I couldn't worry about it even if I wanted to because I'm not doing anything serious but I guess I'll revisit it some time in the future then.
 
FOUND IT
I think
> §2.3.4 : When generic vertex attributes and pixel color or depth components are represented as integers, they are often (but not always) considered to be normalized. Normalized integer values are treated specially when being converted to and from floating-point values, and are usually referred to as normalized fixed-point.
> §2.3.4.2 The conversion from a floating-point value f to the corresponding unsigned normalized fixed-point value c is defined by first clamping f to the range [0; 1]...
@Tuntuni ^ glspec43.core
 
Aha so it is defined. Thanks. :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Wait. What? My memory actually worked? How can this be?
 
@JerryCoffin it's a rather expectable behavior :v
@ThePhD I'm mostly playing with it
 
I quit. =[
O dpm
 
10:18 PM
what?
 
I don't know how developers survive these massive libraries with no documentation.
 
@ThePhD 0 derps per minute?
 
@BartekBanachewicz At my age, it's actually pretty surprising (especially since it was never great, even when I was younger).
 
@Tuntuni in this example you are rendering to the default framebuffer, which is NOT float
 
@Borgleader That will be the case once I jump off a building or commit seppuku.
 
10:19 PM
I just found
 
@JerryCoffin "at your age" arent you like 40-45?
 
> they are often (but not always)
UGH
 
Haha.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is that set somewhere? How can I see with which type I'm working with?
 
IB. Get fucked. <3
 
10:19 PM
@Borgleader Somewhat older than that.
 
@ThePhD no, there's no IB dammit. It's perfectly defined, that I'm sure
 
often (but not always)
 
@JerryCoffin thats still rather young these days
 
Sounds like the implementation is free to choose.
 
no, sounds like "depends on context"
 
10:20 PM
Freeeeeee~
 
@Borgleader We'll see if you think so when you get this old.
 
and that's what I answered @Tuntuni when he asked for the 1st time
@Tuntuni it's when you create your window. You know, windows gives you 32 bit usually :P
 
oh, looks like I missed Gordon being condescending at us?
 
wut?
 
@jalf Oh god no! Please not that again!
 
10:21 PM
@JerryCoffin huh? Sounds like I missed more drama than I thought :p
 
@ThePhD also you said Terra < C++ in functionality? You wanna know how easy reflection in Terra is? Or creating inheritance as a library feature?
 
anyway, I just came across the "turning a blind eye" thing in the logs. Seemed pretty obnoxious to me
 
@jalf Hours of it, culminating in Cat starting a project to write our own chat server.
 
@BartekBanachewicz :D
 
hah
 
10:23 PM
So, how's that SFINAE coming @Bartek? :D
 
@ThePhD well, it works.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, just found GLFW framebuffer hints like GL_RED_BITS, etc. but none of them say anything about the type. Is it always an integer but the size of it can vary?
 
Hi!
And
Night all!
 
@sehe Night sehe!
 
@sehe night mistah bear
 
10:24 PM
@Tuntuni it's not always strictly, but it involves stuff you are not concerned with (like, huh, plotters or proffesional-grade CNC stuff)
if we are talking about typical screen, it's 24 or 32 bit, and 16/24 bits of depth and stencil
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ah that clears it up. :)
 
@ThePhD you can totally write is_addable(TypeA, TypeB) and it will return true or false :P (and it's real expression SFINAE, not some hacks)
 
Apparently the meta thread sparked by puppy is still active >.>
 
@sehe G'night.
 
also Terra exposes pretty much all of its internal stuff to you
so you decide what, how, where and when gets compiled
 
10:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes brilliant. shame this got ... snowed under by lounge drama:
7 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
This is amazing https://ideone.com/VPo0Bk
 
@sehe I didn't find it that special
I should write to Terra mailing list about SFINAE
 
Xeo
@sehe What's so special about that?
 
@sehe I don't see anything amazing about that, before or now.
 
Xeo
Oh, I get it.
Meh.
 
@Xeo Tell meee. D:
 
10:29 PM
also lol, it has stuff like addefinition, which adds an overload
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Ugh
That's just as horrible as defun
 
.. Hahah
"Defun"
Takes the fun out of the language. :3c
 
@ThePhD do you even know what that is?
 
I know that it doesn't lift.
 
@Xeo you know, it's not like you have to use it.
 
10:31 PM
Wooot.
Anyways. I missed all the... excitement.
What's the status? I hope Telkitty got banned for eternity, and the ban extends to all potential offspring for 3 generations to come?
 
@sehe Unlikely, but it sounds a bit nice.
 
Alright, caffeine high ended.
EVERYTHING IS NO LONGER FUNNY AS FUCK
 
Why would telkitty be banned? i thought gordon told her she was off the hook
 
@EtiennedeMartel runs.begin() ?
@Borgleader I think she sent a reply e-mail when she was banned.
And further fanned the flames.
 
> quote var a = 1 in a, 2 * a end
 
10:32 PM
And then posted comments on meta.
 
what the fuck
 
@ThePhD after gordon showed up this morning?
 
Xeo
> This user has been temporarily suspended by a moderator and cannot chat for 1 day 14 hours.
 
oh shes chat banned
 
^ Yep, looks like she went and re-banned herself.
 
Xeo
10:33 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Let-binding? :D
 
@Borgleader after GOLDEN SHOWERED this morning?
 
@Xeo yeah, kinda, but across multi-stage compilation o.O I am so confused.
 
@ThePhD How surprising.
 
seriously, this language is... deep.
 
Shock Value = MAX.
 
10:34 PM
It's extremely simple from one side, and extremely deep from the other.
 
@Xeo Did lift/chain get accepted yet?
 
Xeo
... what?
I never proposed that
 
The proposal
Oh
Lifting-lambdas?
 
Xeo
[]foo, you mean?
 
You didn't write that paper? :c
 
Xeo
10:35 PM
Next meeting is in Chicago and I highly likely won't be there, and I also don't really have a champion for it, so chances are way low
 
oh also @ThePhD Terra has builtin SIMD, so if you write vector(int,4) it will automatically compile that to super swift stuff
 
Xeo
Also, Bjarne seems to have kind of a grudge against it already.
 
Ell
Looks like I'm making brownies on Wednesday
 
.... Maybe I could be your champion~~~
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Not to be insulting but... HELL NAW
5
 
10:36 PM
now I am overgeneralizing and quick-assesing terrible person.
 
Xeo
The choice of words should've told you that I'm exaggerating
 
@Xeo 私はあなたおていきょします!
 
> __apply is used for function application
wait what
 
Xeo
read: function invocation
@ThePhD "teikyou"?
 
@Xeo ah, I thought __call is different
 
10:39 PM
@Borgleader And that's precisely the problem. 1 single user causing major trouble (including DOS of the lounge) should result in 1 sinlge user getting consequences.
 
Service, serve
Or, my best translation of (TM)
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe it does partial application or something?
But generally, function application is just the act of applying a function to certain arguments - or what is generally considered "calling a function"
 
@Xeo no, I mean, it has no __call for whatever reason, so I guess that would be it, no? Also, can you explain in one line what partial application is?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Two words even: std::bind
You apply part of the arguments to a function, leaving the rest for later.
 
Bottled for later.
 
10:42 PM
@Xeo well, that is trivial in Terra, obviously
but __apply is simply __call renamed, nothing fancy
 
Xeo
mh
 
What's oneboxed here?
 
I'd like to implement a few of C++ concepts in it and see how it copes
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Meta has a list somewhere
 
Images, wiki, gists, Amazon (that's pretty useless)
 
10:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus More than should be?
 
Xeo
Off the top of my head, Wiki, images, xkcd, Amazon, gists
questions, answers, comments
message links / quotes
 
@Xeo there's one thing I found particularly fail, though: __gc :/
 
@CatPlusPlus start with images, make webpages work via extensions so we can add at will
 
Stories first, implementation details later.
 
I mean, I have really no idea how performant it is, but it's still a gc :/
 
Xeo
10:44 PM
@MooingDuck The oneboxed stuff isn't just a static images, it contains links and stuff.
@CatPlusPlus Oh also, twitter
 
There's little reason to make xkcd out of all webcomics special.
 
@CatPlusPlus oh, but it is special
 
@CatPlusPlus should be chosable per user with allowing of adding your own oneboxing scripts
 
@sehe To be fair, gordon came here to talk to telkitty but was "trolled" into shutting down the lounge (but persons other than her)
 
10:45 PM
so if you don't want to, you see url
 
+1
66 stories so far ....
 
@Borgleader Okay. I guess I don't wanna know. I'm a bit disappointed by that then. But it ended "okay". I'd have thought that a permanent ban of TelKitty would be largely beneficial to the SO ecosystem.
 
~13 stories per epic. There you go, balanced completely.
 
@CatPlusPlus :)
 
10:49 PM
am I the only one who hasn't noticed any eeevil trolly behavior from telkitty for ages?
 
ugh, also when overloading metamethods you can't use shorthand syntax
S.metamethods.__apply = terra(self : &S) end <- so convenient~
 
It's metasyntax.
 
@jalf Do you have her plonked?
 
well for normal functions it's simply terra S:foo() end
 
@ThePhD no
 
10:50 PM
Oh. Well then, you're just not paying attention. :P
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: No more kitty grenades [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk] [sanity-check]
 
it's just operators reside in the metatable and the shorthand is a shorthand for methods.
 
@jalf Really, though. It's not been super-trolly as of late. Mostly it's been okay. She just doesn't know how to filter what she does / says, really.
 
but you know, I am really, really starting to like this language
 
Which results in links from her, which you learn not to click on under any circumstances ever. :D
 
10:51 PM
Also, I'm pretty sure I'm to blame for getting the room DOS'ed. I was the one shocking him with the news that "this is not an on-topic room", which was what caused the freeze. Telkitty just brought him into the room, nothing more
 
@jalf You're not often here. Or it's getting diluted by a growing number of low-value trolls... :(
 
it has the TMP possibilities well over C++, it's faster, it can use C libraries easily, and has awesome dynamic capabilities
 
No, I'm Spartacus!
Oh, wrong movie.
 
My rep this morning when I woke up xD (Hows that for divisible by 5)
 
@sehe I see her talk quite a lot when I'm here though. But yeah, perhaps she reserves her trolling for when I'm not around
 
10:52 PM
@jalf Well, it sounds like he was facing a mob of loungers. But yeah, you're still trying harder than necessary to convince him of the fact that "you don't care about mods"
 
@jalf The dead of night for USA-ians, usually.
 
@jalf She has fits and spells.
 
Nobody notices when she talks without trolling.
 
Jul 23 at 6:48, by sehe
Sooo. It has come to this. Tiina, hope Rehan, Nipun, Telkitty. We're getting swamped
 
but compared to all the other assholish behavior that goes on here all the time, it just doesn't seem to me to be worth singling her out. (not any more, at least. She used to be much worse)
 
10:52 PM
^ and several others since then
 
@sehe well, I don't.
 
@CatPlusPlus Indeed. Then everything is just ignored as uninformed rambling
@jalf Then (maybe you could) stop telling them :/
 
why?
 
Because it's smarter
 
I'm smarter. Good night.
 
10:55 PM
only if you're actually invested in being allowed to stick around. I used to be. Now I'm just waiting to see what happens. I'll hang out here, and post answers on SO as long as they don't do anything to push me away. If they do, then heck, I'll just move on with my life. No matter what they do, it won't cost me anything, it won't hurt me, it won't bother me
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Was that ever up for debate? :P Also, g'night
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :) NIght you too
 
@jalf You may not care if the lounge goes away, but I do (and probably others). So kindly don't prod the mods next time? pretty plz
 
I''ll try not to take the rest of you down with me though :p
 
Did @rightfold delete his GitHub account?
 
10:57 PM
@jalf the reverse psychology. It's quite deafening.
It's okay. You don't have to stay, or like it here [the site].
 
@sehe hmm?
 
because uh it's kinda bad if he did, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm smartestest.
 
guys
rightfold deleted his SO account and GH account
 
@jalf Presumably, when you say "anything to push me away", you really mean "anything more to push me away"? :-(
 
10:59 PM
What?
 
given all the shit Meta has thrown at us? There is no reverse psychology. I enjoy the lounge, and I enjoy helping others on SO. But neither is essential for my existence, and given all the crap we've had to take from Meta over the years, any loyalty I might have felt towards the site is long gone
@JerryCoffin yes
 

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