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6:46 PM
rene has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
SOCVR’s 11th room meeting will be held here today, 2020-02-12, at 21:00UTC. The meeting is planned to last one hour. The schedule for this room should convert the meeting time to your local timezone.
Please, do not request access. The room is in gallery mode. It will be unlocked prior to the room meeting. Everyone will be able to participate when the room meeting starts.
 
6:57 PM
If you have not read the RO letter about the proposed strike, please take a moment to review it before the meeting starts, as it may answer some of your questions
 
 
2 hours later…
8:31 PM
This room was placed in timeout for 30 minutes; Meeting start
room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk
 
8:57 PM
Hello everyone, and welcome to SOCVR's 11th room meeting. We'll start with some intro messages then get right into the topics. As a reminder, you can find them here.
Due to the unusual nature of today's topic, none of the other outstanding issues will be covered today
General reminder: please be nice to each other. Please keep the conversation on topic, and the no one-box rule applies here. Please use stars sparingly, as we do record them for consensus reasons. RO's will clear stars after each topic ends.
The RO's will write up a summary of each topic’s outcome and add it to the room information repo after the meeting.
We will break the discussion for today's topic into a question about the action, and then how to implement if we decide to go forward
 
vote yes
 
I'm worried about the changes made by the SE management and the consequences these changes might have for our curation effort. Therefor I think it is time to give a stronger signal then all the posts and talking tried till now
 
So, we should discuss what we mean with a strike first.
 
@Kyll That will be Topic 2
 
Yes, SOCVR should participate in a strike.
No, SOCVR should not participate in a strike
 
9:03 PM
I’m not sure what the proposed strike is aiming to accomplish. If it’s attempt is to persuade the company to consider the viewpoints of active, engaged, and passionate users, which they’ve been largely ignoring as of late, I think it will obviously backfire.
 
user10957435
The question for me comes down to, what does SOCVR wish to accomplish from the strike? I know what the letter says, but what specific goals do we as a room have by participating in the strike? Do we simply want all the demands, or merely some of them? Something not on the list?
 
@Machavity Hah, got it
 
Vote present (neither for nor against topic #1) by starring me (for completeness sake)
 
To be clear, we're not going to strike on our own. If anything we will join a networkwide action
 
The claim being made is that the “Meta” crowd is toxic, adversarial, difficult to work with, etc. Organizing a strike would seem to confirm this.
 
9:04 PM
Staying passive doesn't seem to be helpful for anything
 
@CodyGray can we be considered as the group of caretakers?
That is not just meta regulars.
And if anything Charcoal HQ and maybe some mods might join.
 
user10957435
@rene Sure, but would the company think of it as simply "that toxic meta crowd"?
 
@CodyGray Meta has always been toxic. The problem is the site relies on volunteers and the recent trend of late has been to kick those people to the curb.
 
Staying passive is so far ensuring that we can continue to do what we think is best for the site using the existing curation tools. If we do something drastic that the company can interpret as “proof” of unreasonableness and not having the best interests of the site in mind, it risks us being able to continue using the tools we now have.
 
@CodyGray I also am concerned that it will backfire. I just don't see a viable alternate method of communication that presents the opinions of more than a very limited number of people.
I'm also concerned about the effectiveness of striking. I'm unsure if SOCVR would have enough weight for a strike to be seen.
 
9:06 PM
Counter point: let's shut down every queue review, flagging system, etc, for a month so that people are forced to acknowledge the tedious sewer work many people put in every day. — Sterling Archer May 1 '18 at 14:57
 
We need a careful written doc that explains where we strike for.
 
I think it could potentially be counter-productive if we took part and Charcoal and at least several mods did not, as what we do is not necessarily to the liking of the company anyway
 
@StephenKennedy We could indeed adopt an "all-or-nothing"stance right away
 
Yeah, it definitely need to be a side-wide effort
 
Coordinating everyone to be onboard is essentially unfeasible. It just isn’t going to happen, realistically speaking. So I think we need to take that as a given. We might get the majority of active users to participate, but it simply won’t be everyone.
 
9:08 PM
I fully agree with Cody
 
So if SOCVR is the only party willing to strike I agree that will have a bad effect.
 
I would not be behind SOCVR striking alone. But if SOBotics and Charcoal shut down their stuff for a week, I bet it would hurt
 
user10957435
Here's the thing about strikes, they basically say "we're willing to walk away if you don't meet our demands." The thing we have to consider when considering participating is if the company just does nothing, are we willing to walk away from everything forever? Some of us have put years of our lives into this.
 
I just don't want to participate in that site anymore. I don't know any other way to make a change. We don't say anything, things stay bad. We say anything, we're toxic and mean.
 
@Chipster true that. That is why we are emotional here
 
9:09 PM
@Chipster That's a tough question to answer. Just ask @Zoe-accountabandoned
 
you noticed :')
half forgot I was logged in anyway
 
@Chipster Speaking as a former mod (Christianity.SE), I too put years of my life into this. But SE changed what "this" is and I am no longer on-board.
 
@Zoe-accountabandoned \o
 
So... wait until we're kicked out and then watch as they squirm without volunteers as an alternative to the strike? I'd be up for that, too.
 
Adding on to what @Chipster said, we have to consider what our message will end up being if we go on strike, nothing happens, then resume as normal. Do we keep scheduling strikes? Is it a one-time thing as a reminder? For the strike to send an effective message, it'll have to accomplish whatever mission it sets out to do regardless if whatever demands made are met during the week of the strike.
 
9:13 PM
Some perspective is important here. So far, SE has done plenty of things that upset me and suggest a move in the wrong direction. But so far, SE has done nothing to interfere with us moderating the site and cleaning up inappropriate content.
 
user10957435
Note that I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't. I'm just explaining the seriousness of what we're proposing. Not that I had to do that, most already understood that, but I'm just saying that is what we're saying by striking.
 
@Chipster FWIW, I willing to walk away from the moderation side of things. I've found myself doing less and less, and with everything thats happened, I really don't feel like volunteering my time to clean up their site. I'm still going to answer, but moderating is really losing its apeal.
 
I should note that SO dropped the CV threshold to 3 and the queues went down. Since the Monica thing started, that queue has been steadily growing
 
@CodyGray on the other hand, they did have a Loop question about which way they should loosen the moderation rules
 
FWIW I think the acknowledged goal of the strike is to draw attention to, rather than force a change by pressure. This is not a worker strike shutting down business. It is a volunteer strike ceasing somewhat irregular site cleanup.
 
9:15 PM
Here's the thing about doing nothing; if nothing continues to happen from the company's side, most of us will leave anyway, and SOCVR, SOBotics, Charcoal, and other moderation efforts will die anyway. I know several people have already left because of new actions that've just been the final drop. Giving it an abrupt cutoff _now_ sends an abundantly clear message with what the consequences of that happening are. If nothing happens, then you've done nothing in moderation for a week, and you've lost nothing (aside reducing some stats, which only matters if you're worried about a tiny change in
 
Who's our target with this message? SE's leadership?
 
Just to be clear, I don't expect SOCVR's impact to be tremendous here (Charcoal dwarfs us in that regard). I would expect the symbolism to be profound, however
 
@Kyll Management beyond CM and Devs
 
I have already ceased my active participation in clean up long ago. I might rejoin if SE has a guaranteed future for expert programmers, however.
 
I haven't had the time, yet to go through the Discord discussion, but what are the stated goals? What is it that the strike is attempting to accomplish?
 
9:17 PM
@rene Then how do we channel the message in a way that will not be shut down or endanger our moderation efforts?
 
user10957435
@Machavity True, Charcoal is site wide, we're just SO.
 
@Kyll I would guess the CMs -- that it makes their job so difficult that they forward the concern to leadership. But in an ideal world the CEO of Stack Overflow would spend a few minutes on Meta every day anyway, at least reading it.
 
Also agree - Charcoal + SObotics would be the MVPs in the strike.
 
@Kyll that needs to be worked on until the strike starts. It is a valid concern
 
9:18 PM
If you don't inform anyone about the strike and still go on strike, would anyone notice?
 
Charcoal was asked only to participate on SO, not the entire network
> For Charcoal specifically, I suggest disabling autoflags on Stack Overflow, and suppressing reports from Charcoal HQ, the Fire Department, SOBotics, and SOCVR, while leaving Smokey to run normally on all non-SO sites (Stack Overflow is the only site that such a strike will be effective on). Stack Overflow reports can be diverted to a private room, such as MOBotics or another private room, for combing through afterwards (AIM should help identify if any need to be taken care of still).
 
If the leadership had spent a few minutes of Meta every day, there would have been no need for a strike
 
@JohnDvorak Yes, there have been questions, there and on the survey. But we don’t know what they mean, exactly, because they’re very vague, which seems to be the company’s new way. I share the concerns, but let’s not start making assumptions.
 
@JohnDvorak true that. We are here the 1st that discuss this publicly
 
user10957435
We all have seen this. SE's management isn't exactly ready to do anything, even when confronted. How will striking make a difference? The only way I can see is it would make it far more real to them.
 
9:19 PM
We assume content is still an asset for SE
 
@CodyGray point. I'm far from optimistic, but I can agree with giving them a chance. If they don't take it, the end result is the same.
 
What demands would have to be met for the strike to cease prematurely?
 
@Dharman that is a good point. We don't know yet. /cc @Mithical
 
@Dharman see the bullet points of the superplane39 gist gist.github.com/superplane39/ec64f99c8ed413ec75da4e61b666bf1b
 
@Chipster It's worth noting that SOCVR is a pool where a lot of our alumni have diamonds now (and several more have run). That well has dried up, so the next round of mods may be of lower quality
(which is not to imply any non-alumni mods are bad)
 
9:21 PM
That is a bold statement
I can still nominate ...
 
@TylerH You can't meet these demands in 1 week. I would even argue that some of them would never be fully met.
 
@Dharman I agree, personally, I am just sharing what exists
 
@Dharman Andy shared similar thoughts. His suggestions on the Charcoal Teams page are in the right direction
Don't know if anyone has made those suggestions into a gist for those who aren't in that Team
 
"soliciting feedback and suggestions before changes are rolled out." <-- I am not sure I fully agree with this. Yes, the major changes should be asked about, but we do not need to be asked about every single small CSS colour change.
 
Just to be clear, I've seen some "also-rans" in the mod nomination pool. Most mods are drawn from the pool of higher reps (Cody is Exhibit A). If the high reps stop caring, and SOCVR stops caring, who is left to run for mods in the future?
 
9:24 PM
@Dharman Actually I think we do, considering a lot of the CSS color changes... :-)
The new vote breakout red/green colors failed compliance for red-green colorblindness for example, (cc @YaakovEllis) before they were changed in the last day or two
 
user10957435
@Machavity I'm here. Though I'm close to stopping caring too...
 
@Dharman I think that should be scoped to large changes. Basically keep the feedback on Meta, specially for moderation features
 
@TylerH Yaakov listened to the feedback. They rolled back the auto-comment deletion. If a change is met with push back from community then I would expect that they listen, but I don't think they as the owner of the product need to ask us a permission for minor changes.
 
user10957435
Though I guess I'm part of SOCVR, though...
 
@Machavity folks with less rep, obviously. Though rep is initially intended to indicate a level of expertise, it does often translate to 'experience on a platform'
 
9:26 PM
What if we simplify? Either SE cares about the current moderation crowd, and the strike might have some significance, and we might end up in a better place. Or they don't. Or we won't have better tools, because they will not be designed for us or the site we are used to moderating, and we won't have a voice anymore, and things will go from taking years to be implemented to just not being implemented.
 
@Dharman I'm not familiar with something happening WRT auto-comment deletion, but I won't ask here so as not to busy up the chat any further :-)
 
fwiw, my next big project is rearchitecting the entire backend of review queues to support the frontend changes we have needed to make for a while, but have been held back from doing because of the way it works behind the scenes
and I know that our UX Researcher has been speaking with some of you about changes that you would like to see. If you want to be included in the research interviews, please ping me
as ux planning for all of the review queue redesign is being done right now
 
@YaakovEllis Sign me up. I love that stuff
 
@YaakovEllis Can you ask to be pinged in chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/197438/the-meta-room instead? So we can keep this room focused to the topic at hand?
 
@YaakovEllis I'd be interested to learn more about the architecture
 
9:29 PM
Sorry, it's partially my fault for CCing you originally...
 
M--
@TylerH While partially agreeing with you, I have to say that I am not that comfortable with that statement either (cc: @Dharman). I think we should be asked for feedback on major changes before they're rolled out while considering our feedback on minor changes as they happen.
 
@TylerH sorry, I'll shut up. if anyone is interested, email me at yaakov@
 
Yaakov appears to be pingable in SOCVR so that's cool
 
@YaakovEllis please keep speaking
 
Sam
Nice, I didn't miss the meeting this time.
 
9:31 PM
@YaakovEllis No need to apologize. Feel free to hit us up anytime in SOCVR proper. We love stuff like that
 
So we seem to have a consensus that SOCVR is willing to join a site-wide strike, given its goal is better specified.
 
@YaakovEllis Not at all. Your presence is most welcome. We're just asking ppl to ping you about non-meeting-business in the main room rather than here :)
 
Anyways, moving on
 
@YaakovEllis We appreciate your participation here, elsewhere in chat and on Meta, and the work you've been doing. Thank you. I don't think the goal was to imply you should remain quiet.
 
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; Topic ended
Topic 2: How should we implement the strike? Do we lock the main room? Do we simply let the requests remain unvoted on? Do we do something else?
 
9:34 PM
I'm for freezing the room for a week and move all of us to the Ministry
 
Proposal: let discussions run free, and support people who come to ask about their questions, but trash any CV requests indiscriminately
 
I mean: a strike, is a strike.
 
M--
I am not for locking the room neither for letting the requests pouring in. Is there a way to not allow any requests for a week?
 
user10957435
I thought the letter from the ROs said the room would remain open.
 
Aside from the letter, I don't think we should lock the room, as nearly (not quite) 50% of voters voted either present or against the strike, and it can still be a place to chat, congregate in general, and perhaps more importantly, to post cv-pls as regular in order to have some kind of comparative "this many requests went unacted upon" metric.
 
9:35 PM
@Chipster There has been discussions among ROs
 
@Chipster yes, my insane proposal didn't find consensus :( I'm retrying it here on personal title ...
 
Topic 1: Stars/voting. 12-4-4 for strike
 
user10957435
In one sense, letting the room stay open with requests not getting handled would show just how much we do.
 
@M-- We don't have an automated way to control it, but we could trash requests as we see them come in, as John Dvorak mentioned.
 
I will make a proposal as a point of order, not a recommendation
 
user10957435
9:36 PM
@Kyll That makes sense.
 
@TylerH I'd expect there was some overlap between "present" and the other voting options.
 
Proposal: Room stays open but there is no RO activity
 
With requests being present as usual, it might be hard to communicate to visitors they shouldn't act on these requests
 
@StephenKennedy Holidays!
 
If we had enough time, a bot could be written to trash them, but people could easily change the format of the requests to have the bot miss them
 
9:37 PM
@Kyll and fully paid too!
 
@Chipster that was what Samuel posted on Github: It would be great if we can get some stats on how SOCVR is currently performing/contributing (e.g.: average number of questions closed for a week in the past year?) since I gather that's how long the strike is being planned for), and the possible impact on the site should most of the members participate
 
@Chipster That was my bad. Never circled back to it during the RO discussion. Didn't mean to be so definite
 
@Makyen That's unfortunate; in order to be given any weight it must be assumed all votes for present were unique in that such voters did not also vote for one of the other options.
Maybe should have made a Microsoft Form...
 
As well as Tripleee: *I'm wondering how exactly we should collect data during the strike week. Would it make sense to post cv-pls:es etc in SOCVR normally, and just dissuade people from actually casting close votes?
(Though then it's hard to prevent anyone from breaking the strike, as it were.)

Having a record of "these are posts I would have nominated for closing" would seem like good data to collect during the strike anyway.*
 
There's a script that trashes any handled requests. I don't imagine it would be hard to modify to trash everything, and to run in a loop rather than manually
 
9:38 PM
@JohnDvorak yeah, that crossed my mind as well
 
Would numbers change anything?
 
@JohnDvorak except if someone doesn't tag their request as [tag:cv-pls]
 
Sam
@Kyll Typical. I come back just at the moment we all have to go on holiday.
 
@TylerH then it'd be down to the ROs
 
@StephenKennedy No. ROs, are still responsible for the room maintaining conduct within the code of conduct. We should not imply that will not be maintained, if the room remains unfrozen.
 
9:38 PM
@rene How far back can the handled requests skip run? Would it be possible to make an edit to count how many requests were made over the week
 
@Kyll I think it does, yes. You can use statistics to make it look important
 
Move cv-pls requests to a dedicated room. That way they can be cleaned up when the strike ends, and you can see how many requests there were.
 
@NickA it can run till the start of time
 
M--
@TylerH maybe trash any messages with a SO link in them (there's a downside to this I bet, I just don't see it)
 
@rene corrolarily, does increasing the bot's window cause nasty IP timeouts for the runner?
 
user10957435
9:40 PM
Write a bot that moves the messages our of the room and pings the user with a link to a page saying why we're on strike.
 
I like the moving of message idea. A lot.
 
@Makyen Isn't that what moderators are for? (moot point as proposal only has 1 star anyway)
 
@rene I'm under the impression that the message is the most important.
@rene Me too
 
@JohnDvorak No, @Makyen programmed it
 
Sam
@rene Me too too
 
9:41 PM
If we're to ping people who post their requests - one ping per user, please
especially if we don't want them to stop requesting!
 
How many fly-by users do you have? Pinned message + frequent semi-trashing would convey the message in no time to most users
 
@Chipster Wouldn't that just stop some users from posting during the week and skew the result?
 
@JohnDvorak Yes, that would be easy. It would also be possible for it to watch each message as it was posted or edited.
 
At the same time we don't want users that wouldn't normally request to start doing it more frequently, or to ignore the request frequency rules in place, as that would skew results
 
and if you name the temporary cv-pls storage area similarly to the graveyard most fly-by users won't click it to handle requests there
 
user10957435
9:42 PM
@Scratte True. Didn't think about that.
 
@NickA why would they?
 
Proposal: make the temp-trash a private room, to ensure it won't be visited to bypass the strike enforcement
 
@AndrasDeak Just a possibility
 
@JohnDvorak oh definitely
 
if skewed stats is our biggest problem I guess we're done here ...
 
9:43 PM
We should really revive Closey
 
not trying to stop the discussion ....
 
@NickA I've run it back to the beginning. It only starts to have a problem if you want it to display several thousand messages for move-review in the popup.
 
@Makyen But a singular count without movement would work straight forwardly?
 
@Kyll I hear you're on it
 
Sam
@Kyll I could make a small bot just for this.
 
9:44 PM
@rene That was before a lot of crap happened
 
Sam
Closey's going to take a while.
 
I think we have typically under 1000 requests during the span of a week
 
Sam
Assuming we don't want to modify an existing script.
 
@NickA Yes, you could gather statistics. However, I thought there was already something else that did so, or at least that it was done at least once in the past.
 
I volunteer to shitpost all week to make it less obvious that requests are being moved
 
9:45 PM
I knew I could count on you
 
Proposal: loosen the onebox rule significantly during the strike week
 
So 1000 requests a week is the impact we make by not handling them from within the room
 
@JohnDvorak If we use a room other than the graveyard, then the chat system will show a banner that they have been asked to join the new room the first time that a message is moved, and they will only get that banner once.
 
user10957435
@JohnDvorak what would that do?
 
@JohnDvorak I probably get a heart-attack, but yes, that is an option
 
9:47 PM
@JohnDvorak I (jokingly) suggested that and rene said the very same thing to me
 
@Chipster compensate for the lack of regular content with blurry images of flowers
 
@Chipster to make clear the room is in a different mode
 
user10957435
@JohnDvorak Oh I see...
 
user10957435
@rene That's also a good point.
 
I'm not sure that would accomplish anything: clear to whom?
 
9:49 PM
@JohnDvorak Only a moderator can set up an actually private room.
 
Regulars would see the pin, non-regulars can be pinged
 
@Kyll to both regulars and casual visitors
 
@Makyen bot that kicks everyone who speaks? :thinking:
 
I think you should aim for "not at all obvious that anything has changed", because if people notice that then they will indeed start posting more requests, or even worse, follow the requests to the temp dump
talking about fly-by users, of course
 
that ^
 
9:51 PM
Hence my 0.25-serious suggestion about posting a lot to the room. Gaping silence invites a reaction, but if there's stuff in the room with moved-request messages interspersed it's not immediately evident
 
yeah, I can see how that will work.
Still sad my freezing proposal didn't make it
 
It was too cold
 
@rene I mean, I can see it working too
What about freezing for a day?
 
@JohnDvorak hehehe
 
@Sam It would be quite easy to modify the URRS to just move any messages posted that are identified as requests. It already scans every message posted. Dropping in the move code from the Archiver would be easy.
 
9:53 PM
I think rene just wants to avoid any responsibility for a day...
 
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; Meeting end
This concludes this room meeting. A summary of conclusions will be written and placed on the SOCVR website in the near future.
We'll keep this room open for another 30 minutes, then lock it until the next meeting. Thanks all for participating!
 
(thanks for tolerating me)
 
(thanks for being around!)
 
@YaakovEllis Thanks for coming. Seriously!
 
@YaakovEllis <3
 
9:54 PM
How do you determine conclusions, @Machavity? Is the report just going to be a summary of the arguments made, and conclusions drawn from the star count? (This is my first time in such a meeting.)
 
@YaakovEllis Thanks for coming, and for all the great work you do
 
@CodyGray basically, yes
 
...and I had to step out for another meeting in the middle of it. Irony of ironies.
 
@CodyGray Yes
 
Bah, democracy!
 
9:55 PM
@CodyGray This is describing half the meetings that @gunr2171 attends as well
 
@CodyGray It's kinda rough on some topics, but we do try to get a final star vote in the end. It's the closest thing to an actual poll we can do in chat
 
@YaakovEllis I completely agree with the other ROs. You are welcome here. More communication is better. The fundamental problem is that there has been a breakdown in communication.
 
@CodyGray gunr would be proud
 
@YaakovEllis Thanks for being here!
 
user10957435
So I take it the other topics won't be discussed until the strike is over?
 
9:56 PM
@YaakovEllis Do feel free to drop in any time you want in SOCVR to chat!
@Chipster Next meeting.
 
and thanks to the multiple other employees who lurked during the meeting as well :-)
 
6-8...
 
@Machavity I should have done my homework in advance, then, so I could sling some stars. :-)
 
user10957435
@Kyll I mean the next meeting won't be until the strike is over.
 
it's nice to see even lurker participation from employees on chat
 
9:57 PM
@Chipster We'll try to have another meeting at some point (maybe before the end of the year), but we needed to flesh this out in more than 10 mins
 
@Chipster yeah, I reckoned this topic was heavy enough to spend an hour on
 
@Kyll I'll try to do that. so many rooms. so much stuff to do
 
user10957435
@Machavity Makes sense.
 
user10957435
Btw: did anyone save topic 1 stars?
 
10:01 PM
@YaakovEllis when it comes to reviewing and working with the queues most of our regulars are veterans. We are happy to help you out.
@Chipster yes, the chair got it.
 
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 1 min ago, by Yaakov Ellis
if you are interested in giving input into the UX and feature changes we are working on for review queues, please email me at yaakov@ linking to your profile (and be sure to turn on research on your email settings). I can't guarantee that everyone who emails me will be contacted, but I will be happy to forward your info to the UX researcher and designer who are working on this and going through user interviews at the moment
 
user10957435
Thanks @NickA and @rene.
 
yes, you definitely are the veteran SME's for this (though we want the UI to work well for both the power users and the users who only review once in a while)
 
right, and I see on MSO daily how much friction that gives
if it can work for both groups that would be awesome.
 
The order of the day, I think, should be simplicity.
The fact that you need multiple, long Meta posts to explain how the review queues work is a sign that something is broken.
Eliminate redundant queues. Eliminate ping-ponging items back and forth.
Put clearly labeled buttons with the expected choices in each queue.
Don't be afraid to add additional buttons when research suggests that users are consistently making the wrong choice (e.g., a "Flag as Spam" button).
 
10:05 PM
@CodyGray "maybe kinda" and "sorta maybe"?
 
Use color to your advantage: make "Looks OK" buttons green, and "Flag as Spam" buttons red. Other buttons can be blue/gray/neutral. I realize this doesn't help color-blind people, but it does help others, and as long as color isn't the only differentiator, it can be a significant aid.
And please, for the love of God, put audit candidates into moderators' hands, where we can curate the list of audit candidates, nominating both good and bad posts to be audits, and eliminating audits that are not blindingly obvious.
 
Wasn't the idea to have one goal per queue? Maybe the problem is there are too many choices today.
 
@rene I don't know if that was the idea, but I think it's silly.
 
@rene I disagree.
 
that also helps simplicity
 
10:08 PM
I often find myself needing the extra options.
 
but you're a power user
 
When you're reviewing items posted as answers, there are going to be several good choices: flag as spam, flag as "not an answer", edit, "looks great", etc.
 
The way I know it is an audit is when I look around for flag button in LQP and it's not there.
 
All of those choices should be presented to you. There shouldn't be a "review spam" queue, because we don't know whether or not it's spam yet until someone reviews it.
 
fair
 
10:11 PM
The "Edit" button should be called something different in LQP. It is not just editing, it is saving/salvaging the answer. Posts in LQP should not be edited unless they got there by mistake.
 
Yes
But maybe we shouldn't have all these different queues, like LQP, where things get dumped in to be reviewed after they've already been reviewed.
 
@Dharman So rename the button "this shouldn't be in the LQP queue - I can edit it to make it more clear to future readers"?
 
@CodyGray cough H&I cough
 
user10957435
@TylerH That's quite long for button text, but something to that effect.
 
@TylerH or "This is a valuable answer, but needs some editing"
 
10:14 PM
Maybe we should disconnect a specific action from a review. E.g. click "this shouldn't be in LQP" and then the next option is "edit or skip"
 
@YaakovEllis I need a quiz. It's like I got a drivers license, and the little red dot is pushing me to use it, but I never learned the traffic rules. A quiz with helpful guidance would really be nice. Even if the UI is changed and I didn't have to read 117 posts on meta to understand everything.
 
user10957435
Btw, when will the strike go into effect?
 
@Chipster undetermined at this time
 
user10957435
thumbs up
 
@Chipster (y)
 
10:16 PM
@Scratte You honestly should not need any of that. The review UI itself should lead you into making the right decisions. The array of buttons should present you with the choices you have. The buttons should be labeled so that the applicability of each choice is obvious. And then, of course, if you're unsure, there should be a "Skip" button.
For a bit more info, there should be tooltips on each button, which can have a sentence's worth of description.
Beyond that, a long-form help/FAQ can exist---and, indeed, already does, on Meta.
 
This room will be closing in about 5 minutes
 
@CodyGray I understand that. Maybe I'm the only one that's feeling like a failure and just refuse to give up and therefore spent at least 90 hours reading help/FAQ and posts. There's just too much. I'll never be done. Maybe others are less confused :)
 
A huge thank you from the RO team to everyone who joined the meeting today. This room will now be closing. See you next time!
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10:33 PM
Stephen Kennedy has removed an event from this room's schedule.
 
10:51 PM
Cody Gray has frozen this room.
 

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