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4:08 PM
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6:29 PM
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6:54 PM
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Hello everyone, and welcome to SOCVR's 9th room meeting. We'll start with some intro messages then get right into the topics. As a reminder, you can find them here.
General reminder: please be nice to each other. Please keep the conversation on topic, and the no one-box rule applies here. Please use stars sparingly. RO's will clear stars after topics end.
The room will be in timeout for 1 minute at the start of each topic. Use this time to write up your long messages. Once the room has nothing left to add to the conversation, we'll move on to the next topic. The RO's will write up a proper conclusion to the room information repo at this time.
ROs and Moderators, please open up an incognito window to view the current timeout. Please direct all feature requests to the SO devs.
We have 5 topics to work through. We'll be discussing them in date order, and we'll try to get through as many as we can in an hour. Max of 12 minutes per topic. Topics we don't get to will be at the next meeting if still applicable.
> The name insinuates illness of anyone who's send there. That is maybe not the feeling we want to go with that. This topic is here to seek a new name.
> There is already a long list of suggestions. Let's decide on a new one or vote to keep the existing name. The top 3 suggestions are "SOCVR /dev/null", "SOCVR Archive", and "SOCVR Recycling Center".
> We already had this topic in the last meeting, so let's get this one off our plate quickly.
 
what ever the name does not make any difference, I would just leave it and move on
 
Personally, I like "SOCVR Recycling Center", or just keeping the existing name.
@PetterFriberg that
 
"SOCVR Archive" is fitting
 
If we change it I like SOCVR Recycling Center
 
to clarify, the Sanitarium is where fulfilled requests get binned?
 
7:00 PM
I can't see my text cursor :(
 
Well, is that room sanitary? if not, that's false advertising
 
@MichaelDodd it's the room's trash can
 
if so, +1 for recycling center
 
Sanitarium is for rule-breaks and retracteds
 
@MichaelDodd No, that is the Graveyard. The Sanitarium is the trash.
 
7:01 PM
I'd vote against "SOCVR Archive", as our real archive is the Graveyard.
 
correction; "SOCVR Trash"
 
Should we rename the Graveyard to Archive
 
^ = not our current topic
 
dev/null
 
7:01 PM
Either Trashcan or Recycling Centre (keeping our green credentials ;) )
 
@TylerH no, or make that another topic?
 
It's essentially the same topic, just item 2 instead of 1
 
dev/null has got 14 votes during the voting
 
Hiya \o
 
I vote for SOCVR /dev/null for the Sanitarium's new name, at any rate
 
7:02 PM
"SOCVR Trash[can]" is fitting; we already have the "Trash" and "Trashcan" rooms (the latter for stinkier trash)
 
I'm in favor of /dev/null too. It indicates that you shouldn't act on anything in there
 
it indicates that your actions over there are moot :P
we want to make it clear that it's of the importance of a rubbish bin
 
Anything else than dev/null would be to disregard the votes already in place
 
but, but, but.. /dev/null isn't portable. What about our windows users?
 
I'd rather prefer descriptive room names rather than cryptic ones. It would prevent random users from asking for access.
 
7:03 PM
also, yeah, "SOCVR Archive" is one of the last things I'd want to name the room
brb
 
Archive would tell me it's for the fulfilled requests
 
You don't archive trash, so "archive" is a bad name.
 
dev/null is descriptive enough for programmers
 
For *nix programmers. There are web designers here as well.
 
7:04 PM
If it is truly a trash room, I still maintain we don't even need the Sanitarium. I have heard the arguments from gunr and Makyen on keeping it, and as an RO of some years myself, I disagree it has any real merit at the level that an RO is needed vs a moderator.
 
"SOCVR /dev/null" resonates more with me, as it has a computing vibe. I'd prefer it. However, I'd be fine with "SOCVR Recycling Center". OTOH, @BhargavRao does have a good point.
 
"Recycling Center" has the implication that we want to "recycle" what we're putting there
we don't want to recycle what we're trying to get rid of...
 
I consider dev/null more descriptive than recycling center.
 
> @gunr2171 As I said I don't recall this having ever been used. Obviously you don't declare to the SOCVR room when you do it, but I assume the Sanitarium ROs are the same as the SOCVR room... so you can see the deleted messages before they are moved, no? Anything that's so important to be seen after deletion is probably something more appropriate for a moderator to be aware of, anyway.

> As a room owner of several years myself, I still don't see any virtue in having a special room for this, or that things moved there erroneously are really so important that they need to be moved back; cha
 
So "trashcan" so we send it off to landfill?
 
7:05 PM
But what would the descriptive name be? SOCVR retracted requests/inappropriate messages?
 
What's the primary issue with the name Sanitarium?
 
@TylerH We like having our own trash so we can migrate messages back if needed.
 
@TylerH we want to keep control over the messages moved there
 
Ah, found it "The name insinuates illness of anyone who's send there."
 
7:06 PM
@NathanOliver @rene " have heard the arguments from gunr and Makyen on keeping it, and as an RO of some years myself, I disagree it has any real merit at the level that an RO is needed vs a moderator."
 
How about we split redacted away from rule breaks?
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος This is probably my primary concern with the name.
 
If you want to retain control of a chatroom message, don't move it to another room
If it is worth keeping around, it should not be trashed
 
apart from its connection with mental illnesses (and historic sanitariums), it doesn't even make sense, we don't want to sane the bad words, we want to keep them at a separate place just so that "free speech rights" aren't violated
 
If it is not appropriate for the room, then it is not worth bringing back
 
7:07 PM
@TylerH If we are doing cleanup and accidentally move a message that shouldn't we want to be able to get it back.
 
@JohnDvorak But is /dev/nul web scale? Some people think so
 
@NathanOliver If it is a chat conversation, it's transient and probably not that important. If it is a request, you can just repost it (or they can)
 
If you want the web version, how about Packet loss engine?
 
@TylerH Why go through all that work when I can just move it back with a click of the mouse?
 
Discussion might follow about the appropriateness of a request. For people to understand it, it's useful to have the message somewhere
 
7:08 PM
we're humans @TylerH we make mistakes and some of us want to be able to cover up correct our screw-ups.
 
I visit the sanitarium quite often
 
@NathanOliver Because it's a whole other room of trash that you have to maintain for that 0.0001% chance you bring something back
@ErikvonAsmuth For your own morbid curiosity maybe
but not likely for any real useful purpose
 
What's to maintain? We don't have to do anything with it
 
I've also visited trash rooms in the past, doesn't mean I want to bring messages back ;-)
 
True, but you shouldn't prohibit me from fulfilling that morbid curiosity ;)
 
7:09 PM
I had suggested SOCVR Dustbin for that reason. No negative connotations. No diseases. Just things we wanted thrown out.
 
We are spending 10 minutes talking about the name of the place right now @NathanOliver
 
@TylerH While that's mostly true, the room does get called out on Meta from time-to-time. It's good to be able to reconstruct what exactly did happen.
 
Another point is search-ability ... when you want to see as to which message was trashed, it's easier to search if you have your own trash.
 
SOCVR Trash or Trashbin would be fine as well
 
SOCVR Dumpster
 
7:10 PM
If you want to keep it, that's fine, I just wanted to make sure the whole meeting had the opportunity to discuss its merits
 
Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
I can live with a dustbin. Not my favorite though.
 
where we move Dumpster fires
 
I think we should have a shortlist of the top-voted ones so we can vote on them (assuming we aren't going off the github thumbs ups)
 
Agree to disagree @TylerH. We are keeping the room
 
7:10 PM
"SOCVR Trash[can]"; my suggestion is final
 
Keep the name and lets be over with this
 
+1 Trash[can]
 
@TylerH Ironically, we started this topic with a short list of those that were top-voted :-)
 
During voting, dev/null has got +14/-0, far ahead of any other suggestion. We should use dev/null.
 
We can vote using stars, BTW.
 
7:11 PM
we've had 25 name suggestions we picked the top 3, please stop offering new ones
 
.oO( come on, let's get this over... :/ )
 
Keep the original
 
@rene perhaps repeat the 3 in separate messages, vote using stars?
 
/dev/null
 
@BhargavRao I can't star my own comment :-)
 
7:11 PM
GImmie a moment to log into github...
 
Recycling Center
^ pick
 
We have a winner
 
ugh, going with /dev/null, it's the best of the 3.
 
yes we do, moving to the next
 
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; topic 2
> Is this really useful? Is it helping? Can we not have this rule and just use common sense? When new users come in and ask to reopen a post they have a stake in they violate the rule but we allow it (at least I do because if it really needs to be handled we should help).
 
no, not at all, common sense has always been an integral part of our organization, and that won't change
 
The rule was put in place to prevent people from abusing the system - answering and then getting a question closed as a dupe or off-topic, but still having their answer there to garner points or attention. If it is problematic in it's current iteration, I would recommend just simplifying it to "Do not request closure on a post that you have asked or answered, unless you are unable to delete it yourself due to system restrictions".

This will allow people to ask for actions on questions they asked or answered but are unable to handle themselves (multiple people have answered their question,
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος see github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/room-meeting-topics/issues/… for a response on that (tl;dr common sense is not so common)
 
Vote to remove the rule. If there's an abuse, we can handle it even without an explicit rule.
 
@TylerH my main vote stays; providing below for star-ability
no
 
7:15 PM
I also like the simplified version, though I believe the primary restriction reason was against reopening your own questions
 
I think we still need the "Don't edit Qs just to CV them" rule. We have someone who ignores it regularly
 
I agree with keeping the rule, if only as a CYA. If you have a stake in the question and you vote to close it, it'll be in the review queue anyway.
 
A clause like, "you can request on a post you've interacted with, if you have RO approval" might help.
 
heck, you can normally vote to reopen your own question
 
@Machavity Edit to CV them? Can you explain? (Maybe in SOCVR main)
 
7:15 PM
Should we have an exception to permit people to a question which they have answered? There isn't that much benefit to the person requesting, and potentially significant benefit to the site.
 
looks like a different topic, like editing tags to use hammers
 
@BhargavRao nah, let's not
 
@BhargavRao ROs can not, and should not, be babysitting chat when people want to do something
 
@Makyen no, but if they like to answer yes..
 
@BhargavRao discrimination...
 
7:16 PM
@Makyen I would allow that.
 
@gunr2171 yeah, that's true.
 
@TylerH We have a "Don't CV old posts" rule but the exception is when they have activity (ie NATO). So we have someone go edit the old Q they want closed and then they CV it. Shows activity today
 
@Makyen I'd be happy with that, especially if it's an edit you think brings the question to being back on topic. e.g. if the asker posts vital details in the comments instead of the main question.
 
@Machavity Ah
 
I think the appearance point is important. We don't want to seem a voting ring that ignores other's close votes by reopening eachothers questions
 
7:17 PM
I'm not sure why regulars like to bring their own posts... if new ok they are focus on that but regulars in SOCVR should not bring stuff they have stake in
 
I sometimes do edit questions that already had NActivityTO before I realize that it is a NATO question. Hope it's not me that's guilty :-)
 
@BhargavRao you assume there all RO's moderate the same ...
 
@Machavity "don't request CVs on posts that don't have recent activity except yours or that are otherwise egregiously bad"
 
@TylerH If it's got NATO activity that's not what I mean
 
@Makyen So that simplifies it to "don't request CVs on questions that you have asked"?
 
7:18 PM
uh, embarrassing question, but what is NATO?
 
New answers to old [questions]
 
@TylerH That you have asked??? who does that?
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος New Answers To Old questions stackoverflow.com/tools/new-answers-old-questions
 
@TylerH No, still restricting other types of requests. Just permitting on questions you've answered, but not asked.
 
sorry, not enough privs
 
7:19 PM
@PetterFriberg that's the original purpose of the rule IIRC
 
1. Don't CV a Q you have an answer on
2. Don't CV old stuff
3. Don't edit stuff to avoid Rule #2
 
My primary venue to discovering crap is the realtime page
 
I discover crap everywhere...
 
I would almost allow that, but I really don't like that a regular ask to re-open a post where they have either asked or answered.
 
@Machavity s/old/inactive/; otherwise, <3
 
7:20 PM
@BhargavRao see also: every day on the queue
 
5 minute warning
 
4. don't reopen-pls your own questions. You can still initiate discussions if they should be closed, though.
 
@JohnDvorak That works too
 
@JohnDvorak or on which you have an answer
 
Discussions on your own posts/posts which you've answered is still allowed, right?
 
7:21 PM
@JohnDvorak right!
 
@PetterFriberg I can't see that being abusable
 
Don't CV a Q you have an undeleted A on
 
@BhargavRao yes, and I would feel that is always allowed
 
We've always allowed discussion on posts. If someone else wants to take action that's their decision
 
I would almost add that the rule is valid only for regulars
 
7:22 PM
@JohnDvorak or perceived abusable, no
 
@BhargavRao Yes so long as you don't request an action on it
 
@PetterFriberg Wouldn't that be detremental to yourself, if you're taking a selfish point of view? Means others can answer and you could lose the potential accept. I don't see what there is to gain from that
 
Discussions, yes. Requests, or "discussions" that are effectively just requests, no. If the person is really seeking input, that's fine.
 
In my experience, discussions work better than requests in getting things closed/reopened. So we can just leave the rule in place and no-one gets impeded by it anyway
 
@PetterFriberg New users are specifically handled differently.
 
7:22 PM
@MichaelDodd nope it's know that closed post gather less upvotes then open posts.
 
Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
@Makyen good point, shouldn't be abused, common sense is unfortunately the judge
 
I'd allow "fake" discussions. If it really should be reopened, it's not abuse.
 
@PetterFriberg but both are still open to votes, even if the footfall is less for closed questions
 
The problem has often also to do we duplicates, like I don't want to be target but the source.
 
7:24 PM
> : ... [very little time passes] plz reopen... :(
 
I can see how reopen-answered could be abusable. Opened = more activity = more views on your answer
I really like Machiavity's list
 
^
 
plus my edit to it
 
^
 
@JohnDvorak Meh. If it was closeworthy, you probably don't want much activity
 
7:25 PM
yeah, Mach has formatted it quite nicely
 
5 mins ago, by Machavity
1. Don't CV a Q you have an answer on
2. Don't CV old stuff
3. Don't edit stuff to avoid Rule #2
4 mins ago, by John Dvorak
4. don't reopen-pls your own questions. You can still initiate discussions if they should be closed, though.
 
uh, can we please not vote on carets
 
Good?
 
user8682794
My favourite discussions are pointless discussions
 
whoops, wrong second
 
7:25 PM
waffle
 
Heh, that was my caret!
 
user8682794
this chat is going a bit too fast
 
4 mins ago, by John Dvorak
4. don't reopen-pls your own questions. You can still initiate discussions if they should be closed, though.
 
your caret is nothing on the starboard >:D
 
s/old/inactive/
 
7:26 PM
@Machavity we add that you have answers or not?
 
@JohnDvorak I'd say at best would be a double edged sword, as other people could answer.
 
Anyone not in favor of Mach's list plus JohnDvorak's addition? If not, I'd say we've found our consensus
 
tbf, I think that inactive questions should still be closed upon discovery; it doesn't bring them to the front page
 
We're out of time, we need to move on
 
@Makyen Think about dupes
 
7:26 PM
we're out of time, too late :P
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος the point of SOCVR is to be exception handlers though
 
Inactive questions are votes spend inefficiently
 
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; topic 3
> Is there a rule/guideline for how long we should wait before posting a cv-pls request? 5 minutes?
 
yeah, although I kinda disagree, we need to be able to prove our decisions
 
no no need
 
7:28 PM
There is no guide currently. It would be hard to enforce because some questions are going to be off-topic no matter how long we wait or how many edits the person makes. In an ideal world we would implement a rule like this and it would only apply to close reasons such as "No MCVE" or "Too Broad" or "Unclear" but none of the other ones. I would be for this rule in those cases, but not in cases where the question is off-topic, a duplicate, etc.
 
I don't think there should be a grace period
 
No. For stuff that's particularly poor quality the sooner it's closed the better, and to give a message to OP that they should go back to the drawing board, or spend some time to shape up the question
 
It does make sense though to not request immediately in borderline cases. As in, there's a chance they'll improve.
 
I do not think there should be a hard rule about a grace period. If you are requesting a post to be closed 30 seconds after it was posted we have to trust that you have a very good reason for it
 
user8682794
7:29 PM
what is a grace period??
 
@PearlySpencer period where you can edit a post without a revision showing up
 
which is 5 minutes
 
5 minutes after the last edit or a comment made not by the post owner, whatever comes first
 
user8682794
ah okay. I think 5 minutes is reasonable
 
Grace period ends with comments or closure tho
 
7:29 PM
I think we could recommend waiting until it's over, but not enforce. It can lead to awkward situations with invisible edits if the grace period isn't over.
 
The main reason I am for a grace period wait is because we are supposed to help users and engage with them if possible
 
Here, the time between the question getting posted and the CV request getting posted
 
@TylerH what if we an off-topic question only for it to suddenly become on-topic via a quick edit (e.g. OP realizing he forgot to include their MCVE)
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος That's what my comment says
 
You can close within seconds, and still have a friendly chat afterwards and even reopen if warranted
 
7:31 PM
If it is something that can be fixed by OP editing the post to include something or clarify something, then wait
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος Then someone else mentions it, the original requester checks and asks an RO to bin the request.
 
@TylerH well, MCVE is actually an off-topic reason
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος In which case the requester should withdraw the request, and their close vote. If a question is closed,
 
@TylerH baah why would like to enforce such a rule?... it's a useless rule, if they edit you can withdraw.
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος Yes but it's easy to add
 
user8682794
7:31 PM
I think 5 minutes will not make any material difference in our ability to close questions on time. I think we should keep it.
 
I guess the question is, how likely is the question going to be fixed within x minutes. I'd say it's typically nigh impossible, and we shouldn't have to wait in those cases.
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος for the record, that actually happens more than you think it does. And it's perfectly ok when it does happen. I'm not punishing people when I move a request like that to the trash room
 
@PearlySpencer The rule doesn't exist yet. We could add it, but not keep it.
 
5 minutes is plenty of time for crappy answers to roll in.
 
Has anyone actually seen that we have a problem in this area, or are we talking about something that we think might be a problem, sometime?
 
7:32 PM
I normally watch my cv-pls's in a tab. If they get invalidated I'll notice
 
With a simiilar rule do we need to wait when firealarm post a question?
 
user8682794
Then we should add it. It will prevent "sport-closing".
 
^ good point petter
 
AFAIK it's pure theory. One more reason not to invent the rule.
 
What I have seen is people judging all questions very negatively by some made-up personal recollection, and trying to get rules passed or not passed based on that. We should be careful to avoid such things
 
7:33 PM
@JohnDvorak yep
 
I haven't seen this. I have before said something when I see the OP is talking in the comments and trying to get it fixed but that has been very very rare
 
we don't need moar rulez, just your common sense
 
@TylerH which means we have to prove the question has been in a close-able state
 
That, too. Smaller FAQ is better FAQ.
 
uh, I'm actually withdrawing my "yeah", in regard to rene's opinion above, I'm starring it
 
7:34 PM
What I don't like to see is questions that can easily be edited by OP with one bit of guidance from a user closed within 1 or 2 minutes
 
Yeah according to me it's just akward to tell a user no you need to wait another minute before you post a cv request for this bad question... 1.2.3... ok please post
 
that ^
 
@TylerH if edited post a reopen request
 
@rene Let's please avoid that trope. If you don't think we need a rule, say so, but don't give a throwaway reason like "just use common sense"
@PetterFriberg would that all people do that in such situations... :-)
 
5 minute warning
 
7:35 PM
@PetterFriberg time for @Sam to fix @Yam
 
looks like we've reached consensus
 
it was up for some time
 
I think the discussion's over
 
@BhargavRao And Closey
 
Closey left with Tuna after they got engaged ...
 
7:36 PM
Fine, I'll go get some food
 
@BhargavRao Too soon...
@gunr2171 I think we can move on - everyone seems to be of the consensus that no specific rule is needed at this time
 
@TylerH sure, all I'm saying that I trust all of you to make requests that are valid when you see them and have no problem when something changed
 
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; topic 4
> While we all agree SOCVR moderates the content of a post, it is possible that by posting cv-pls and subsequent delv-pls to remove the answers that were posted on these questions.
> What if those cv-pls and delv-pls are strategically posted to target certain OP's that posts answers to duplicate and/or low quality questions. Is that something we want to detect, warn and/or forbid.?
 
unlike Charcoal, we don't moderate users, so please no
 
Don't you already have a bot to detect this?
 
7:38 PM
No No NO
 
We should not be targeting users.
 
@PetterFriberg Makyen isn't a bot, I guess.
 
Again, it goes back to appearance. I don't think meta would take too kindly to even a hint of user targeting.
 
Personally I wouldn't mind people using profiles to discover crap, but we definitely don't want to facilitate people's grudge against each other
 
@PetterFriberg not that I know of
 
7:38 PM
Mak needs coffee, so he can't be a bot :P
 
Yeah, targeting users entangles us in Meta. And nobody wants that
 
@rene script?
 
@PetterFriberg No, but we could add it. Currently we only look at question authors.
 
So, "no" is the conclusion?
 
@BhargavRao :-)
 
7:39 PM
@gunr2171 More like HELL NO
 
The problem is edge cases. You see a user posting the same answer to 4 questions. They're all dupes. Do we need a moderator involved, or can we just close and del them ourselves?
 
I sometimes dig through a user's recent posts if I've seen them serially posting crap, but I wouldn't then go about posting requests here.
 
@gunr2171 yes
 
@gunr2171 more like NO, FOR GOD'S SAKE WE'LL BE DAMNED
 
If it's particularly bad, I just modflag
 
7:40 PM
@ErikvonAsmuth You don't need to flag them, we'll get an auto flag.
 
@ErikvonAsmuth I think it's better to flag in that case
 
@ErikvonAsmuth that needs a mod IMO
 
question bans exist for a reason
 
Well, that was a fast one, let's move on
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; topic 5 - last one
 
next
 
7:40 PM
> CV-Pls and other moderation requests typically stick to the prescribed close reasons when posting in the room. The reasoning behind this is sound: the room should strive to be above reproach, and we don't need to put a target on our back by becoming a place where someone can post a cv-pls with the reason "trash question" or something similar.
> I haven't seen anything about this in the FAQ. Can we get some clarification from the RO team on whether this is still in effect? If so, can it be added (back) to the FAQ, and a general reminder given to the room as a whole?
 
> Can we please discuss enforcement of prescribed close reasons?

Currently we see lots of close reasons that use unnecessarily unfriendly language or terms in the close reasons by many users, several of which regularly use these inappropriate close reasons.

However, I can count on one hand or less the number of times such a cv-pls request has been binned due to inappropriate close reasons or a failure to change it after prompting.
 
sorry Tyler, didn't have enough time to post that
 
no worries
 
I don't want to restrict it to only actual close reasons. I'd like to permit there to be additional factual information intended to help other users save time in evaluating the post. For example: "Typo: see 5th line of 2nd code block foo should be bar. Confirmed by OP in comments."
 
The first part of this was already decided in a room meeting last year:

"Using prescribed close reasons was discussed at the January 2017 room meeting, as an offshoot to the topic "Do we need to watch our tone more?". The summary of the discussion was:

> Stick to the prescribed CV reasons when making requests, and always use constructive language when describing a question. We already require members to act professionally and with a high standard.""
 
7:42 PM
no strong opinion, but unfriendly language anywhere is unacceptable, especially with the new CoC
 
If the sole reason for using actual close reasons is to have us talk nicely, 1) we already have the CoC for that and 2) it doesn't work anyways, because we have the free-form space after a comma
 
We sometimes have to append to the reasons tho. Like "Typo (see OP comment/answer)"
 
"Give me teh codes" is something I would never want to see in a cv request, ever
 
I like this cv-pls should be professional with real close reason and if you like you can add additional info, no crappy request like stupid user
 
Agreed, and also keep in mind custom close reasons (e.g. SEO)
 
7:43 PM
To be clear, I'm not advocating no custom cv-pls reasons. I'm only advocating for us to stick to business with them
 
@gunr2171 But, it's an objective assessment of the question :P
 
I see on a nearly-daily basis custom cv reasons like "trash posts, no value, usless, gimme teh codes" etc
 
no, we don't need to stick to prescribed close reasons, but please use nice language everybody, no "gimme teh codez", no "usual gibberish of the new user", etc.
 
^ this
 
There's one particular reason I'm on the fence about though - homework dumps. Those questions that are copy-pastes from the textbook and show absolutely no prior effort or research
 
7:44 PM
Tl;dr: be nice
 
Yeah, we do need to be mindful of "welcoming", even if the Q is junk
 
In the event we see that, how do we handle it. Should normal regulars address it? Or ping an RO?
If regulars address it and it isn't edited/stopped, then what?
 
@MichaelDodd "Custom: Homework without attempt"
 
friendly reminder to be nice should do
 
when it doubt, use the prescribed reasons. If you want to do something custom, be nice about it.
 
7:44 PM
we should refrain from wording that disqualifies the poster
 
I'd do both. Call it out and ask an RO to bin it. ROs bin bad requests all the time
 
@TylerH how about ping RO and we'll can it
 
Sounds good to me
 
I'd allow edits before we bin things for wording
 
be nice, don't insult the OP behind their back
 
7:45 PM
+
 
@JohnDvorak you mean like a grace period ban? :-P
 
@TylerH yup
 
@ΈρικΚωνσταντόπουλος well, sometimes the comments also refer to the answers
 
no, no bans. Just trash the offending stuff.
 
The time-frame for editing is very short. In most cases this will require an RO to bin the request. Thus, a ping will be needed.
 
7:46 PM
@TylerH the CoC enforces about that too ;-)
 
A cv-pls request should be inline with the CoC
 
Any message in chat should be in-line with the CoC
 
meh
 
On a side note, it would be nice if the request generator could let us add extra freeform text while casting the close votes.
 
user8682794
7:47 PM
any message on SO should be in line with the CoC
 
@rene that needs no explicit FAQ rule; chat has its own FAQ, new SE users are highly recommended to take the tour, we're OK
 
@rene no that's useless, it should be precis and professional
 
Ok, so the conclusion is: "you don't need to stick 100% with the perscribed close reasons, though it might be in your best interest to do so. If you want to go off script, you MUST be nice about it."
good?
 
So - keep your requests business-like and in compliance with the CoC - if you see it violated, a friendly reminder and a ping to an RO in case it isn't edited.
 
Works for me
 
7:47 PM
sniped by gunr as always...
 
It's still recommended to stick to the default close reasons
 
@JohnDvorak yes
 
ok, so.....we're done?
This concludes this room meeting. Conclusions are being written now and will appear on the SOCVR website momentarily.
We'll keep this room open for another 30 minutes, then lock it until the next meeting. Thanks all for participating!
 
@JohnDvorak of course, that's how one should CV in general ;)
 
7:48 PM
dunno if we need to discuss the RO nominations?
 
@ErikvonAsmuth Have there been any?
 
@ErikvonAsmuth we'll talk about that in the main room in just a few minutes
 
@JohnDvorak The request generator has a UI that lets you add custom text. The checkbox in the CV-dialog is just a convenience for when you don't want to do so.
 
I've thought about it, but then decided there's no selling point about me and I'd have no chance in the nomination :P
 
@TylerH you didn't notice?
 
7:49 PM
@Makyen I want the textbox to be in the cv-dialog
more convenience
 
@rene No
I haven't been on much lately - been packing/moving
+ work
 
later all, long weekend so see you Tuesday :)
 
@JohnDvorak I'll think about what can be done to make it more convenient.
 
Awesome, thanks!
 
8:24 PM
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
 

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