10:45 PM
-8
Q: These 'cannot close questions with a bounty' posts are getting inane

QixAlright now, StackOverflow. Is this what we've lowered ourselves to? This question (How do I create an infinite loop?) has a whopping 500 Point Bounty on it. The question is, as you may have guessed, exactly that - the user has no idea what an infinite loop is. It even appears to be a homework ...

 
Qix
Appears the bounty has been removed and the comment I mentioned has been deleted. Higher rep users should be able to see the history, though.
 
Instead of using [discussion] use [feature-request]...
 
Qix
@Braiam arguable. This is more of a discussion - I'm not proposing a single feature request. This is a small window of effect that is caused by a much larger problem StackOverflow is facing - the continually lowering of question quality.
 
How often is this happening? Does it no longer work to simply flag them?
 
Qix
@BilltheLizard Doesn't that defeat the purpose of close-voting?...
 
10:45 PM
I'm curious why Martijn removed the bounty but did not close the question: doing the former seems to imply the latter to be necessary.
@Qix: I think Bill meant raising a flag asking a moderator to remove the bounty, not flagging to close.
 
Qix
@JoshCaswell fair, though I would still be worried about the mod disagreeing and having a similar response to the comment by the user that placed the bounty.
 
@JoshCaswell: this was one bounty in a series I removed. I did not remove them in response to a flag requesting the question be closed.
 
I see, so it's because the series itself was problematic, @MartijnPieters. That makes sense.
 
Nothing is getting out of hand. There are never that many questions active with a bounty on them, you can just flag those that need to be closed for moderator attention, like always.
 
user4639281
So why are you removing bounties from questions that don't need to be closed @Martijn? Is there any guidance that says a user can't post more than one bounty at a time? What really is the problem here?
 
10:45 PM
We have a young python java programmer that does a lot of good for this site. I don't understand why this bounty was taken away from him
 
@TinyGiant: Because fraud. That's all I'll say on the subject.
 
I am voting to re-open this as it is a feature request, whereas the target is only a support question. Therefore it is not a duplicate.
 
@MartijnPieters I understand your stance on the subject, but is there an actual set of objective guidelines for assigning bounties? Or is it just down to each user's sense of morals and taste?
 
user4639281
@Martijn Ok, that's extremely vague. How and why is this considered fraud? How are we supposed to avoid this happening in the future if you wont tell us what is wrong with what was done?
 
"Fraud" is probably too strong a word for this. We received multiple complaints that a user was targeting another person with a series of large bounties on posts of questionable quality. When asked about it, they stated it was because they were transferring reputation to various people so that they could have moderation privileges. Per the usual guidelines that we state about targeted voting: "don't vote for the user, vote for the content", Martijn felt that this was an inappropriate use of bounties. I questioned it myself, but I don't know if it's a problem or not.
 
10:45 PM
I don't know if it's a problem or not. @BradLarson - Do you mean "it" as in this particular instance or do you mean you don't know whether this is a thing other people are doing as well? Also: Really, really surprised they admitted that's what they were doing
 
user4639281
@Brad: OK, so the only reason that the reversal was allowed was because the user in question said that they were targeting the user? So, if the user had said that they just thought the answers were worth the bounty, nothing would have been allowed to happen?
 
@BSMP: I'm going to go ahead and concur with Martijn here. Transferring rep to give others moderation privileges they haven't earned is a misuse of bounties. This is true regardless of whether or not someone admits to the practice.
 
JAL
I don't know if it's a problem or not. Does this mean the moderators have different opinions on if this is an inappropriate use of a bounty? It's clear that like Robert agrees with Martijn, but I'm curious to see if there is a consensus or official response.
 
@BSMP - Actual bounty fraud is pretty rare overall, and I've only seen a tiny handful of cases where someone attempted to transfer reputation to an unrelated person via bounties. It's clear that trying to game the reputation system by moving bounties to sock puppets or members of a voting ring is against the rules, but this is a gray area. Should bounties always be for the posts themselves, and not the user? Where do we draw the line?
 
@JAL: Use your common sense here. Rep requirements exist so that we can identify people who have enough experience and interest to be good stewards of the privileges we give them. Artificially inflating someone's rep scores with bounties for the sole purpose of helping them obtain moderation privileges they haven't earned subverts this principle, and gives undue credence to answers that don't deserve it.
 
user4639281
10:45 PM
Soo... where do you draw the line for "artificially inflating someone's rep score"? The only objective line I can think of is if the user posting the bounty actually states that that is what they are doing. Otherwise, isn't every bounty an artificial rep inflation? If not, is the criteria for what is as subjective as whether or not you think the answer is worth the bounty? @Robert
 
@RobertHarvey note that we have loads of very high rep users who don't give a rat's butt about moderation (and thus about the health of SO), and again other very high reps who gladly answer the worst of the worst. This does not contradict what you're saying, but rep is not everything.
 
@TinyGiant: I'm not going to give you a mathematical formula, because one does not exist. If there were objective criteria for this sort of thing, we wouldn't need moderators to make decisions like this. That said, I would have made the same decision Martijn did.
 
user4639281
@Robert Well that's equally as vague, and now you're just brushing me off. What do you define as "artificially inflating someone's rep" above and beyond openly admitting that that is what you're doing? If you can't define it, you can't rightfully revoke a bounty for that reason.
 
@TinyGiant: The situation is already clearly described in the comments above.
 
Qix
Why was my comment with the definition of inane removed? I was clarifying to the user that changed it to "insane" that "inane" was indeed the intended word...
 
10:45 PM
@qix: An entire conversation was removed, not just you're comments. We're trying to keep the noise down to a dull roar here.
 
user4639281
@Robert your "clearly" is subjective. It is unclear to me how you define "artificially inflating rep", and so far you've just refused to offer any definition, other than saying that it cannot be defined. Right now I'm under the impression that you can revoke any bounty you please if you think that the answer is not worth the bounty, which is subjective any way you look at it.
 
@TinyGiant: Moderators are neither compelled nor required to write a dissertation about every decision they make. This isn't the Supreme Court.
 
IMHO this question should not be closed. It's a basic question and shows a lack of understanding, but that's the point of asking questions, isn't it? It's a specific question, it's about programming, the OP provided some code and made an effort. Why should this be closed?
 
@Carpetsmoker: It was closed by five community members with close vote privileges.
 
user4639281
@Robert The same line any time a mod is asked to justify their actions. Brush it under the rug with a "I don't have to write a dissertation every time I make an action". Are you not ever required to justify your actions? Are you not accountable for the actions you take?
 
10:45 PM
@TinyGiant: Take it up with SE. See how far you get. Complaints can be directed to meta.stackoverflow.com/contact
 
@RobertHarvey Yes, I understand this. This doesn't make it the correct decision though.
 
user4639281
@Robert so you are saying that you're not accountable for your actions as a publicly elected moderator, and that you are not obligated to justify your actions in any way?
 
@TinyGiant: I'm saying that I agree with Martijn, and that I support his decision.
 
Given you know as much or more about what's going on here as the moderators do, maybe you'd like to write an answer and explain it to the rest of the class, @TinyGiant?
 
Ok folks, let's bring the discussion back to this question, not about what was done to the bounty question. If you want to discuss that specific question, then take it chat or post an answer.
 
Qix
10:45 PM
Woah now, no reason to be uncivil here @Shog9. TinyGiant is making a point through asking a question from the elected moderators, which is his privilege as a user on StackExchange. There's no reason to berate an individual for doing so. I agree with bluefeet, most of this should be taken to chat...
@bluefeet could you link us to an appropriate chat room for the topic at hand?
I'm not a mod by any means but both sides of the discussion should keep things civil. The point being made in my OP was that I've seen quite a few of these bounties being made recently. Perhaps they are part of the spree @MartijnPieters was remedying - if that's the case, maybe a brief explanation of the situation by mods would be sufficient enough to close my topic.
I can't chat in the SO Close Vote discussion @shog9
but I agree with @AndrasDeak:
 
@Qix no one can right now.
That's the point
 
Qix
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 7 mins ago, by Andras Deak
You could still discuss. Or, request a FAQ for bountying?
 
user4639281
So why exactly do you figure that freezing the SOCVR is necessary @Shog?
 
Qix
I understand @Shog9. Just pointing it out for those who are wondering why the other room is locked.
 
@TinyGiant because I'm pretty damn irritated with you right now, and I want you to understand what's at stake here.
From the perspective of the moderators, it looks like we have a room full of people coordinating voting and bounty-trading.
 
user4639281
10:51 PM
This has nothing to do with the SOCVR
 
@Shog9 that's definitely a false appearance then
 
Oh, but it does.
 
@TinyGiant: If you feel that strongly about it, why don't you just ask your own meta question?
 
user4639281
I'm asking for a definition of "artificial inflation of reputation" and being told to basically bugger off
 
I think it has @TinyGiant here
 
10:52 PM
None of the mods are particularly interested in sparring with you about it in a question's comments.
 
@TinyGiant meanwhile, instead of explaining what's really happening on Meta, you're getting into some stupid procedural argument in comments with Robert.
 
user4639281
I can't ask for clarifications?
 
So while an increasingly large number of people are trying to figure out whether or not y'all are part of some great big fraud ring, you're not only doing nothing to help your cause you're actively making it worse.
@TinyGiant now would be an excellent time to go to meta and provide some clarifications.
 
user4639281
What exactly do you want me to clarify?
 
Qix
@Shog9 is Tiny Giant currently under investigation for fraud?
Also /slightlyofftopic this might be of useful reference. meta.stackexchange.com/a/124545/180420
 
user4639281
10:54 PM
I didn't post any bounties, and have nothing to do with the bounties in question.
 
@TinyGiant why, exactly, there appears to be a room full of people trading bounties on lackluster questions in order to garner rep on Stack Overflow, and why that's not fraud.
 
user4639281
As far as I can see, Jarrod bountied three questions from another user. Jarrod admitted that it was to allow that user to access moderation tools they would not otherwise have access to.
 
user4639281
That's two users.
 
user4639281
Not a room full of users.
 
Qix
@rene If I'm not mistaken, isn't that the user that posted the bounty on the question I was referring to?
 
10:55 PM
@TinyGiant none of this information is on meta.
 
@Qix yes
 
user4639281
Yes it was, in the comments
 
Qix
@rene I'll post an answer then. Thank you.
 
user4639281
Martijn was the one that pointed out that Jarrod admitted that, IIRC.
 
10 mins ago, by Brad Larson
"Fraud" is probably too strong a word for this. We received multiple complaints that a user was targeting another person with a series of large bounties on posts of questionable quality. When asked about it, they stated it was because they were transferring reputation to various people so that they could have moderation privileges. Per the usual guidelines that we state about targeted voting: "don't vote for the user, vote for the content", Martijn felt that this was an inappropriate use of bounties. I questioned it myself, but I don't know if it's a problem or not.
 
user4639281
10:56 PM
Ok, Brad was
 
user4639281
So all of that information was there
 
Qix
@rene and @Shog9 is it kosher to mention that link in the answer?
 
@TinyGiant Which is why I encouraged you to stop baiting the moderators and post the explanation of whatever's been going on in an answer, before this spins off the rails.
 
pp_
Why are we all of the sudden talking about bounty trading?
 
@Qix I would personally wait to see how this ends but I'm all for transparency so if my room screwed up, so be it.
 
user4639281
10:58 PM
That would be taking the information that Brad posted, which could have been an answer, and posting it as an answer myself. How is that my responsibility?
 
^^ Same here(another RO of SOCVR)
 
Qix
@rene I think it's pretty clear what's going on, now. I think it was less of SOCVR, more of the users at hand. It's strange they decided to carry this out in SOCVR. I wouldn't fault the room for it.
 
user4639281
I wasn't baiting anyone. I asked for clarification of a moderators reasoning and was told to bugger off.
 
@Shog9 one of the issues is that the possible-screwing-up (in the form of the bounties) and the inquries of Tiny Giant (which you find disruptive) are independent
 
10:59 PM
@AndrasDeak I have no opinion on whether these bounties are actually problematic or not.
 
@Qix the users involved are my regulars. I feel and am responsible.
 
Qix
@rene Ah I see.
 
user4639281
I want clear and concise guidance, which I can point users too in the future.
 
@TinyGiant Don't trade bounties. There's your clear and concise guidance.
5
 
But I have observed that they've been under discussion in the SOCVR for at least the past hour, so jumping into a meta discussion and pretending not to know anything about it while you're actively participating in the room that's discussing them is a bit sketchy.
 
user4639281
11:01 PM
So I'm supposed to repeat everything that is said in the room on meta?
 
@TinyGiant is it relevant?
 
@TinyGiant I think Shog's feeling that you're playing the fool, which is one of the reasons for the harsh repsonse
 
I mean, you have at least two moderators whose current opinion is that these bounties were fraudulent. And you know at least as much about them as anyone else, and can draw on the knowledge of the other folks involved.
 
while I think you're just agitated at the lack of subjective respones
 
pp_
@rene I read the comments. Still doesn't explain why the word "trading" or even "fraud" was used.
 
11:02 PM
Would be an excellent opportunity to allay suspicion instead of getting into a debate over procedure
But that's your call. You can also choose to sit quietly and let other folks decide for themselves whether or not this is a problem.
 
user4639281
I actually don't think that what I said in the SOCVR was necessarily relevant, as most of what I said there was repeating what I had already said in the comments
 
@pp_ because this and subsequent discussion in the SOCVR.
 
user4639281
I don't actually think any of it was relevant to the question asked at all
 
Qix
If anyone would like to provide more information, this is the answer that has an explanation of what took place: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/318495/510036
 
user4639281
I think all of it was off-topic for the question asked, entirely.
 
user4639281
11:04 PM
I think that it could very well be relevant to an entirely different question, that has yet to be asked.
 
Qix
@Rene I refrained from linking to your room. You're free to add the link if you find it appropriate.
 
user4639281
But I don't think that it is my responsibility to ask that question.
 
Qix
Overall I think I saw a few of these pop up at once and was immediately concerned and went straight to meta.
 
@Qix "bounty fraud ring" might be a bit too harsh
 
user4639281
I was asking for clarification on the criteria that a moderator said that they used for revoking a bounty.
 
Qix
11:05 PM
@AndrasDeak not sure what else to call it.
Trading bounties, to me, is considered fraud.
 
@Qix me neither
Tiny's issue, as I see it, is exactly that the fraudulent nature of a bounty has not been defined anywhere
 
Qix
A user abusing the bounty system to trade rep is fraudulent. Mods, feel free to interject here.
 
user4639281
I was told that it could not be clarified, and basically that I should contact stack exchange if I have a problem with a moderatyor's action.
 
pp_
@rene I'm not sure we all agree on what fraud is then.
 
@Qix I think that is what Tiny tries to find out
 
11:06 PM
does someone have a link to the conversation where the bounty trading went on?
 
"Improper use of bounties" maybe? Not sure if it's worth it to split hairs on the wording.
 
Qix
@AndrasDeak Agreed - an FAQ post about it would be nice.
 
@AndrasDeak great time to post a competing answer that explains this using less damning terms...
 
user4639281
Define "trading bounties" and "artificial inflation of rep"
 
Qix
@Shog9 Or just an edit?...
 
11:07 PM
whichever
 
@Shog9 I clearly see the suspicion of abuse, my point was mostly along the lines of what rene said: "I'd wait until this is over"
 
Qix
Just edit my answer, my goal was to post an answer that had a summation of this chat session on here (the other two do not).
 
user4639281
If I post a bounty on a question that is answered by someone I know, is that automatically "trading a bounty" or "automatically inflating a user's reputation"?
 
Qix
Feel free to change it.
 
user4639281
I'm asking for objective criteria, and being given vague and useless responses.
 
11:08 PM
@AndrasDeak IMHO, the biggest problem here is that no one quite knows if this is actually abuse. It certainly seems to be putting folks' teeth on edge, but where exactly is the line?
 
15 mins ago, by rene
I think it has @TinyGiant here
 
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 1 hour ago, by rene
Any action you take in favor of a user instead of a post should make you think twice
 
@Shog9 I think that's exactly what Tiny was trying to find out
 
user4639281
How am I supposed to know that I am doing something wrong, if I'm not being told what the criteria for wrong is.
 
Qix
@Shog9 so perhaps opening a meta discussion on it would be a correct course of action.
 
11:08 PM
I admit, not in the clearest-cut of ways
 
@AndrasDeak well, you aren't gonna find that out by grilling moderators who are presumably just now finding out about all this via flags and chat transcripts.
5
 
@Shog9 I agree:)
 
I may be opening of a can of worms here but: if you just wanted to hand someone rep, why not just award a bounty to an existing answer?
 
Put forth your explanation of what happened and where you think the line should be, and let the public decide.
 
@BSMP that's the same can we've been kicking around here
@Shog9 personally, I don't think directed bounties are a good thing
 
user4639281
11:10 PM
I don't know where the line should be. The moderators have stated that there is a line, a criteria that they use, but failed to define it.
 
but I don't feel strongly enough against it to raise my voice, since people's mileage may vary
 
That's how we do things here. Public discussion on meta. It's not clean or easy or fast, but it beats back-room discussions and secret decisions. Make it public, and see what the sunlight reveals.
 
pp_
Trading suggests that something was given in return for the bounties. In my opinion this is a claim without substance.
 
user4639281
Is that not what I was doing?
 
If it never gets discussed, then you're at the mercy of what the moderators thing is right in a given situation. They have, as a rule, excellent judgement... But they can be wrong on occasion, especially when they don't have all the facts.
 
user4639281
11:12 PM
So am I not allowed to ask them to explain their actions and the criteria they use?
 
So if you think they've made a bad call, it's in your best interest to make sure that the matter gets discussed in public, where the facts can become known.
 
user4639281
I was discussing it in public, on meta, for the world to see.
 
user4639281
And being told to bugger off.
 
@TinyGiant: Comments are not the place for that. Post a Meta question.
 
user4639281
So responding to a comment asking for further explanation of that comment is not correct?
 
11:13 PM
You're using a hammer where a screwdriver is the better tool.
 
user4639281
I'm supposed to post another discussion about that comment?
 
Stop feigning ignorance. The Meta site, with it's Q&A format, is the preferred way to conduct such discourse. Not comment badgering, which seems to be your preferred mode.
 
@TinyGiant about the use of bounties, if I'm not mistaken
 
@TinyGiant "Are you the bounty police now? Why do you care?" - that was your lead-in there, Tiny. Not exactly a great way to approach the situation.
 
@AndrasDeak I think I misunderstood the situation. I thought the bounty was placed on the question. Was it actually just put on the answer?
 
11:15 PM
29 mins ago, by Tiny Giant
So why are you removing bounties from questions that don't need to be closed @Martijn? Is there any guidance that says a user can't post more than one bounty at a time? What really is the problem here?
 
@BSMP bounties work like this: you put it on a question, then assign it after >1 day on an answer
 
Qix
Pinging @JarrodRoberson - please comment here with any frustrations you may have. My post/answer were not targeting you individually.
 
either old or new
 
user4639281
@Shog9 And what was the answer to that?
 
there's a built-in option to assign to existing answers if you feel like t
 
11:15 PM
@TinyGiant to what?
To why the bounty was removed?
 
user4639281
@Shog9 To the question I asked which you quoted.
 
30 mins ago, by Martijn Pieters
@TinyGiant: Because fraud. That's all I'll say on the subject.
 
@AndrasDeak Right. In this instance, was the bounty on the question or just assigned directly to an existing answer?
 
user4639281
And how absolutely useless is that?
 
user4639281
I asked for further clarification, which I was refused.
 
11:16 PM
@TinyGiant well, that depends quite a lot on who you are.
 
@BSMP question with answer, it was intercepted before assignment, if I understand correctly
 
Qix
Side note: mods, mind jumping on this?... meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/318482/…
 
user4639281
How can I possibly know what not to do, if I'm not told why something is bad?
 
user177800
Yes?
 
@TinyGiant For most people, who aren't suddenly awarded multiple large bounties out of the blue, it's a pretty decent explanation.
For you, it might be a little bit less useful.
 
user4639281
11:17 PM
How so?
 
hey @JarrodRoberson
 
user4639281
It doesn't explain anything at all
 
Qix
@JarrodRoberson you're welcome to discuss your intentions here. The action against your bounties was already being considered before I made the post. I made a point at keeping you anonymous as I felt the problem was bleeding into other areas of SO - not just your own localized bounty.
 
@JarrodRoberson we're trying to decide, among other things, whether assigning bounties to people rather than posts is an abuse of the system
 
@TinyGiant Sure it does. Don't commit fraud and there'll be no problems.
2
 
Qix
11:18 PM
Definitely not 'hubris'.
 
user4639281
I asked how it was determined to be fraud, what criteria was used to determine that, and have yet to be informed of the answer.
 
@TinyGiant Are you going to take the time to post a meta question, or just waste our time in here for the rest of the day?
 
The problem here is that bounty was not directed to answer, not even directly to users (no real trading). A user decided (openly in chat and admitting to moderators) that the best use he could do with his rep was to increase moderating powers of active users. Let everybody vote on this. If OK you can do it, if not you can not...
 
user177800
Qix you did target me personally the comment is gone, but you were bitching at ME by name about my awarding a bounty that you did not agree with. So shut up with the innocence crap!
 
@TinyGiant this is where I get irritated with you. You want the mods to show their cards, while you're holding yours very close to your chest.
 
11:19 PM
[sigh]
 
@JarrodRoberson this is a bit larger than that
 
user4639281
@Shog9 What cards am I holding?
 
Qix has been pretty decent, though he may have posted that answer a bit prematurely
 
@TinyGiant So they obliged, and... You kept pushing. Again, without showing your own hand.
 
user177800
I was awarding bounties that I believed were deserved recognition.
 
user4639281
11:19 PM
I'm asking how subjective the criteria is, and for a definition of that criteria.
 
@JarrodRoberson On a question about creating an infinite loop? C'mon.
 
user177800
Nobody was "trading" anything, how the hell do you "trade" rep anyway.
 
@TinyGiant feigning innocence on this pretty slimy behavior isnt making the rest of us look good.
 
that ^ please
 
user177800
11:20 PM
I made it really clear a week ago on a meta post, I was going to spend my rep on POSITIVE things like rewarding bounties instead of WASTING them on downvoting users answers that did not care to begin with.
 
user177800
There is no US @cimmanon, nobody can award MY REP but ME!
 
user177800
and my motivations are clear
 
@JarrodRoberson the SOCVR has been frozen
 
user4639281
I fail to see how I'm feigning ignorance. What am I not saying that you think I should be saying? Obviously you know, why not just say it?
 
you can't treat this as an issue of a few people
it affects the room too
 
user177800
11:22 PM
Qix is "feigning innocence" with his "I was not targeting you personally" BS.
 
@TinyGiant Does that mean you're willing to post a Meta question about it, as we've all asked you to do?
 
Qix
@JarrodRoberson my concern that was raised in the OP was that the question itself was low quality and the answers are vary basic programming constructs that anyone who has read more than a "hello world" introduction to programming would know.
 
@JarrodRoberson This should be meta post and if you can't award rep like that you can't... amen...
 
@JarrodRoberson yeah... Which is great, until folks start flagging the questions you've bountied and pointing out chat conversations where it sounds like you're just trying to inflate folks' reputation without particularly caring about the quality of the posts involved.
That's how nasty rumors get started.
 
user177800
THE QUESTION WAS NOT LOW QUALITY AND IT SHOULD NOT BE CLOSED BY ANY STANDARDS, YOU WANTED YOUR PERSONAL OPINON ENFORCED, GOOD FOR YOU, KISS OFF AND STAY OUT OF IT NOW.
 
user4639281
11:23 PM
0
Q: What exactly is "artificial inflation of reputation", and where is the line?

Tiny GiantFor reference: https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/105614/discussion-on-question-by-qix-these-cannot-close-questions-with-a-bounty-posts What exactly is an "artificial inflation of reputation"? I was asked to post a meta question about this, instead of "wasting everyone's time in chat" so tha...

3
 
Qix
I'm definitely not feigning innocence. I apologize for caring about the overall quality of SO, as it's pretty well accepted that question quality on the site has dropped due to scaling.
 
@Qix I don't think you should take this personally
it's not really about you:)
 
user177800
you do not care, where is your activity cleaning up the site, pp_ has done more in the last few months to help the site than you have in 5 years, stop talking to me
 
@JarrodRoberson, part of the problem is that you're wrong that "my motivations are clear"
 
11:24 PM
resist urge to star
 
it was far from clear for the mods here what's going on
 
user177800
It is about him, he is a nosey asshat as far as I am concerned. Sanction me all you want, leave everyone else out of it.
 
which led to this whole crapstorm
@JarrodRoberson it most definitely isn't about him
 
@TinyGiant thank you
 
@Qix So? It's a basic question. Nothing wrong with that. Perhaps you're much smarter than me, but I distinctly remember struggling to learn "simple" concepts when I started programming almost twenty years ago
 
11:25 PM
(At this point, I'm just going to lean back and enjoy the irony of a room full of people who were just last week haranguing me over not being tough enough on question quality being harangued about the same.)
2
 
user177800
Brad has it out for me, he apparently dug the chat transcripts where I ADMIT to queuing up 1500 rep for pp_
 
Qix
@RobertHarvey lolol
 
user177800
The he needs to leave the chat room why is he here then!
 
Qix
Because this room was created about a post I wrote.
Pretty simple.
 
user177800
you can leave, I have nothing else to say as long as you are here
 
11:26 PM
@JarrodRoberson I believe Qix's post put yor bounties on the radar, but all the ensuing controversy was due to your bounties alone
and his post wasn't about "why did Jarrod bounty", but rather "we close this crap with a bounty on it"
 
user177800
Then he can leave, if it is not about him. Otherwise him staying is making it about him.
 
Qix
I have nothing else to say. The mods have spoken, I feel it's very clear what happened here, and a valid question has been spawned in the process to invoke more meaningful discussion.
 
@JarrodRoberson I sort of agree, but chat is public, and he has every right to behere
 
user177800
Yeah you said enough
 
it's not about me either, yet I'm here
trying to make all of you communicate
 
Qix
11:28 PM
Other than the hot-headedness, 'meta worked'.
 
since I believe most of this crap is miscommunication (as most often)
2
 
user4639281
No one wants to answer the question, just downvoting.
 
user177800
you did not attack me in the comments and the claim you didn't, first rule of asshatery is being an asshate and then denying it.
 
Qix
@JarrodRoberson I'm not an ass hater, believe me.
 
Come on folks keep it civil
 
11:29 PM
@Shog9 nice touch on that meta question:P
 
Qix
Mods, feel free to lock this discussion. My post, albeit downvoted into oblivion, was answered.
 
pp_
@Qix Nothing is clear, you made claims that there is fraud and bounty trading going on without even trying to support these claims with evidence.
 
Qix
I never claimed it was fraud.
Feel free to read my original post again, though.
 
pp_
@Qix I did an it contains "bounty fraud ring".
 
Qix
@pp_ my original post never mentioned bounty fraud.
 
11:30 PM
Shog9 has frozen this room.
 
Ok, we have a meta discussion at last - please continue the conversation there:
4
Q: What exactly is "artificial inflation of reputation", and where is the line?

Tiny GiantThis is in reference to a chat discussion prompted by this meta post. The backstory here is simple: a high-rep user on Stack Overflow recently decided to start offering bounties on questions with the express intent of increasing their authors' reputations so that they could use it to moderate ...