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19:38
People keep on saying cybersecurity is crucial and future wars will be cyberwars. Yet, here we are Ukraine vs Russia and I have barely seen anything wrt cyberwarfare there
20:16
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn The intelligence aspect. Russia's plans were transparent for some number of weeks before they were executed.
@Mikhail Nevertheless no cyber attacks. No stuxnet 2.0
Yeah I do think thats true. I wonder how much of it is due to mitigations?
Perhaps nobody knows anything about cyber attacks including the US lol
Stuxnet was kinda weird because it was a US attack.

Israel would have just done something more kinetic.
I think if they were happening people would know.
But yeah much of the security space is really hard to judge.
You need to hire an expert, who will advocate for their own employment :-)
IMO many of the attacks I have read about have the same erroneous assumption. They assume the attacker already has access to the victim's command line: cache side channel attacks, ROPS, etc...
the only attacks which are realistic and do happen every know and then are DDOS
20:26
Yeah that is a very good point. So you'd say the systems were already compromised?
Perhaps yhea. I mean, good luck bruteforcing/hacking/... into a device via SSH
I mean with stuxnet its hard to claim the systems were pre-compromised.
That's already a major hurdle most of the researchers/pentesters are neglecting
stuxnet is different in that regard. It, AFAIK, is due to a worm which was on a USB stick and installed itself on the internal network that way. Once you have that it is already much easier to "call (back) home" somehow or open ports etc via eg reverse ssh
So I guess we need to ask why that same kind of worm hasn't happened in the Ukraine war conflict
I suspect that the actual damage that can be done is small compared to the value of gathering intelligence
sutxnet was kinda interesting because there really was a clear way to have one system fail and explode. I'm not sure what could do that much damage today?
Probably more pipelines exploding, and its not obvious how much damage this does long term, and if you're already at war you might as well just do it the old fashioned way.
btw the other famous case was the comprise of Syria's air defense system.
never heard of that one
@Mikhail would be interesing to know what the nsa does all day long. This would allow to have a better view on the utility of cybersec
20:39
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box
The Israeli attack used sophisticated electronic warfare (EW) capabilities,[24] as IAF's EW systems took over Syria's air defense systems, feeding them a false sky-picture[24] for the entire period of time that the Israeli fighter jets needed to cross Syria, bomb their target and return.[25]
From what I can tell they got pretty deep into the system and spoofed the radar equivalent of cam feeds etc
Admittedly the spoofing was probably some kind of trolling as in some world they could have just knocked out the radar installation...
I once exchanged some emails with a guy from Israel who specialized in microarchitectural attacks. He seemed to be called by all sorts of people all around the world for his expertise. Never managed to know more about who these people were and what precisely he had to do
Also this company gets contacted by all sorts of governments for their (offensive?) cybersecurity expertise
20:56
I think if said thing was possible he'd be really high in demand :-)
@Mikhail He does seem to be (very) high in demand
Interestingly the demand is so overwhelming it doesn't really speak to the credibility or even the utility of the services offered
"Will only compromise compromised systems that nobody nobody cares about"
21:21
ANother attack which can, I believe, be considered as realistic are cross-core attacks
in a shared cloud infrastructure, it is not uncommon to share a CPU with somebody else but be on a different core inside a container/virtualized env
you're not going to share a CPU with a company like Facebook. Probaly just a small business. But yhea, you can do some stuff there in such a setup
21:49
by the way, is there an actual solution nowadays against ddos?

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