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2:00 PM
@thecoshman (FWIW: I qualified my statement with "it seems"; yours was absolute.)
 
not so, it is equally on us both, one can not make a claim, and simply argue it's validity by forcing others to disprove it. You have, thus far, that I am aware of, provide any evidence at all
 
Ell
@thecoshman you mean haven't?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes your proposition was thusly qualified, and indeed my doubt of it was absolute, but my counter proposition was equally qualified with "I'd suspect"
@Ell indeed
 
Anyway, I don't think it depends on a lot of things, especially not on things that are significant for choosing between the two.
(I.e. current state of affairs > hypothetical scenarios that you cannot choose)
 
I'm fairly sure streaming content, especially to multiple people, is less energy than making and moving physical bits of shit
I mean, you'd presume fairly even load streaming, the fact it's not 100% dedicated to streaming just that one thing
A global distribution
 
2:08 PM
@thecoshman What makes you sure?
I think you're severely overestimating the costs of transport.
 
Oh sure, you can move a lot at once
but the production I think is very expensive
 
Injection moulding?
 
nwp
I want to make a class TestTabManager that handles adding and removing tabs for tests, but I've been cargo-culted into never making classes that have "Manager" or equivalent in their name.
And I can't just use actual knowledge instead of cargo culting, that would make me a decent developer.
 
Sounds like a container.
"adding and removing"
 
Xeo
@sbi Who what?
 
2:12 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes but also harvesting all the materials
 
Polycarbonate plastic?
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well the thing is that there may be too many tests to display, so the manager may decide to, say, combine the not running tests into one tab, freeing the tests from worrying about what should be displayed.
 
and all the packaging, and the metal for the actual data
 
nwp
Maybe one can split it into a dumb container and a display-update function that does the decision making.
 
@thecoshman The metal for what?
 
2:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes the foil in the middle of the disc that has the actual data on it... it's not just plastic
 
Very significant.
 
Ell
Oh boy
 
#triggered
 
nwp
also I need to work on ma'starbaiting techniques
11
 
Try injaculation then. It saves a lot of tissue.
 
2:17 PM
Nov 25 '16 at 18:18, by Jerry Coffin
@StackedCrooked Somehow, "never underestimate the bandwidth of a fedex truck full of carrier pigeons" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
Ell
I bought some instant noodles
I added this sauce packet that came with it into them and they are extremely hot now xD
 
Anyway, I feel like you're falling into the same traps that make the truck with hard drives thing feel unintuitive.
 
@Ell That's mostly because of the hot water.
 
no I'm well aware of that
 
So where do the costs come from, then?
 
2:19 PM
Where do they come from with a server?
 
so the Wright's Flyer 1 had a 9kW engine
with a total mass of ~320 kg
 
Ell
@Morwenn it's because of the chickens on the pot which are saying "firee!!" :O
 
@thecoshman I don't know, but you were "fairly sure" that the physical option used more energy.
 
it really looks like building diy airplanes should be a thing today
 
Hmm, interesting. Two of my answers got -2 at the same time all of a sudden. Somebody does not like me.
 
Ell
2:20 PM
the whole box is in korean apart from that, I should have used the pictures as a hint to the spiciness >.<
 
(Actually, I know; they come from electricity of running the servers and their support systems, and from running the nodes along the path)
 
I mean yes, it is, when you consider large scale dvd production, relatively low cost, but I'm fairly sure (in intuitive sense) that servers would be less
 
@thecoshman But why?
You're just guessing, as far as I can tell.
 
yes... like I said, it's my intuition
 
So, a guess.
 
2:22 PM
You have lots of distribution steps with physical media
 
@Ell But spiciness is life D:
 
some people would drive to shops to get that dvd
 
@thecoshman Which is why Blockbuster still exists, right?
 
Oh, 2 days ago. That sounds like around the time of JavaScript room flagfest and my 30 minutes ban.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what?
 
2:23 PM
You should describe processes that are: 1) expensive and/or 2) extremely frequent.
@thecoshman Physical stores are dying.
 
because they are expensive to run, which can be crudely equated to energy cost
 
No, because no one uses them.
 
because they are expensive :P
but now this really is another debate
 
@thecoshman You're delusional if you think electricity costs are a significant cause of that cost.
Just rent will easily overshadow that.
 
true
 
2:39 PM
Someone's having fun in the nominations.
 
When is the uncon
After June 15th?
Depending on that I'd propose a German or English place
@R.MartinhoFernandes "your mom", "Uganda", etc. can be deleted, I guess. Just like that lovely PGP block
 
I hate aldor peacekeeper so much
 
@EtiennedeMartel -.-
 
$ gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring blank --import pk
gpg: key C6F44BE8: public key "R. Martinho Fernandes <rmf@rmf.io>" imported
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:               imported: 1  (RSA: 1)
gpg: public key of ultimately trusted key FF7EF16E not found
gpg: public key of ultimately trusted key 0A194EA0 not found
gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model
gpg: depth: 0  valid:   3  signed:   0  trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 3u
$
@Columbo Who pasted my public key there?
What's the point?
 
2:53 PM
> Punishments [for offenses] can not contradict the system of social values that society holds on to,
Huh.
 
There is an old Russian proverb that says a people get the government they deserve
 
I think that exists in all cultures.
 
Okay, there probably is another Russian proverb that says "beat your wife and child"
 
nwp
@Mikhail I don't like that proverb anymore, it encourages people to be inactive.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...welcome to the Lounge. lol
 
nwp
2:58 PM
@GillBates purify counters it :D
 
@GillBates lol
 
@Griwes I was going to post my key as a response to whomever posted theirs so we could chat, but it doesn't work if they post mine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes instructions unclear, public key stuck in keychain
 
how many sec vulns can you fit into one question:
-2
Q: Dynamically allocating an array of struct inside a function

Surreal EverythingI cannot understand what's wrong with my c implementation of: dynamically allocating an array of struct inside a function to use with in other functions. The problem is my .exe stops working after reading the first struct(which is read correctly). The struct: struct student { char name1[3...

 
3:15 PM
The cast on malloc hints that he is actually doing C++
6
 
@Mikhail lmao
 
Is whopper what I think it is? E.g. not a burger king meal
 
great now they changed the question
 
3:21 PM
There should be a "StackOverflow: the movie"
Where you see someone ask a terrible question with a wall of badly indented code, a slurry of conflicting tags, edit the title and body after several answers have been posted, then deletes the question altogether.
The end.
Of course the comic relief would be Meta
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What do I know?
 
nwp
@GillBates Dragon and reno priest are brought to tournaments now, so maybe next episode we will get to see unicorn hunter.
this seems to be a good question for @Griwes or @BartekBanachewicz
 
> good question for me
> C++
 
nwp
it is not really a C++ question, it is a "let's rant about how terrible and hopeless C++ is" question
 
Next piece of code to steal: drop-merge sort.
 
3:30 PM
What about drop-mic sort
 
@CheukKinSing I can't access the paper.
 
@CheukKinSing that sort is done quickly but takes forever to return because of the dancing
 
@nwp meh
Want full memory safety? Don't write C++.
Next!
 
Did someone say Rust
 
Want full memory safety? Avoid Alzheimer.
5
 
3:36 PM
@CheukKinSing no
 
What about job safety? C++ has great job safety!
 
@CheukKinSing the problem with that is that most of the major security bugs in any codebase following decent practices at this point is still low level binary munging code. Rust can't protect you there.
 
I was being 100% serious
2
 
Ven
@CheukKinSing ben alors
ca bait si tot le matin ?
 
@CheukKinSing poor soul
 
3:52 PM
> following decent practices
So, almost nowhere.
 
On ne badine pas avec le palet.
 
(What does "low level binary munging code" mean, btw?)
 
On niaise pas avec la puck.
 
welp self-driven cars seem to be all the rage at CES
 
Who cares about self-driving cars when it's 2017 and we still don't have self-finding KEYS
or socks or whatever
 
4:00 PM
> we’re now working with all of the world’s major mapping companies so more of the world’s roads will be mapped sooner.
that's weird, I thought the whole idea was to make cars that can run anywhere
what if a city redoes an intersection and your car doesn't get the update on time
 
cars don't run
 
0.01/10 bait
 
@CheukKinSing Me neither.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what if the intersection starts construction and the city doesn't notify the mapping companies until it's done
 
@ratchetfreak or that
 
4:04 PM
What if the car still doesn't crash?
 
Better than 99% of windows software
 
What if the car still gets across it fine?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then it's ok, I suppose?
> We also announced new AI Co-Pilot capabilities. Now, even if the car’s not driving for you, it can be looking out for you — alerting you to dangerous situations on the road as well as recognizing your identity, knowing where you’re looking and reading your lips to understand your commands in noisy situations.
 
They can drive unmapped roads.
 
this is way more interesting ^
 
4:04 PM
It's not a missing feature.
 
or more critically if there is a crash and some lanes get shut down and you need to pass over the hard shoulder
 
I didn't say it is.
But the article said that mapping is "essential"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, because they have to find routes.
 
> These high-definition maps — accurate down to centimeters — are vital to enabling vehicles that can autonomously zip through the world safely and efficiently.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I highly doubt you need cm accuracy to find routes
 
@BartekBanachewicz That sounds sensationalised.
 
4:06 PM
That's from NVidia blog
 
@BartekBanachewicz But it does sound cool.
 
Its not a road map, its more like a LIDAR image
 
you only need meter accuracy (given that lanes are 2-3 meters wide)
 
You don't really need a lot of accuracy for the safety part.
 
there are some narrow roads out there
 
4:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I thought
 
Yes, so what?
 
> These AI car demonstrations use end-to-end deep learning to navigate through a dynamic course. They’re trained to understand various road conditions and obstacles, as opposed to being specifically programmed.
 
@ratchetfreak You don't need to know that it was or was not intended to be narrow, or that it was narrow at whatever point a mapper went through it.
You just need to know that it is narrow right now, and unsurprisingly, you are already in the best place for determining that.
@BartekBanachewicz Exactly the point.
 
When you're driving a big truck, you might want to know which roads are too narrow for you ahead of time.
 
and which ones are forbidden for heavy vehicles
 
4:09 PM
@Morwenn Right, that's routing. No need for cm accuracy.
 
I guess the idea for self-driven trucks is that they'll mostly stay out of cities
they are supposed to go long distances over highways
 
And none of those things impact safety.
Unless you work under the assumption that a self-driving car will just push along through a path it doesn't fit because that's what the map said.
 
I guess we should get a self-driven car in about 2-3 generations from now in the premium segment
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, you were still on the cm accuracy stuff. My bad.
 
@CheukKinSing idgi. Is the guy trying to compress data by finding the offset it is in Pi and saving the offset?
 
4:11 PM
Golf 9 is supposed to be fully electric but I doubt it'll be self-driven
and that's 2024 IIRC
 
The newest Teslas will probably be self-driven with a software update.
The hardware is already in there.
 
well I guess it starts to blend a bit
there's no definitive "this is self driven" and "this is not" nowadays
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I mean it will have the ability to drive without the user.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if you have a car that can drive for a while w/o any input on the highway, is it self driven? Or does that happen when it can do A-B? But is it one A-B with occasional hiccups, or is it full A-B everywhere?
 
But it probably will go through various stages with each update.
@BartekBanachewicz The hardware for any of those is the same, I'd guess.
No?
If so, it's just a matter of when the final update comes.
 
4:14 PM
I doubt it will ever be "final"
I'd bet on continuous improvement
 
@BartekBanachewicz I mean the one that makes the user irrelevant for all these.
Of course it can be improved after.
 
@BartekBanachewicz well, the "This is not" is clear, but what level of automation makes it "self driven", that is tricky yes.
 
And maybe they'll put out a new Tesla model before that update comes. But the point is that it is likely that when the first self-driven car hits the market, there will already be several ones on the road, thanks to software updates.
 
nwp
> Because of Pi being infinte and never repeating, all possible combinations of 1 ad 0s are there, meaning all files are inside pi somewhere!
Pretty sure that doesn't follow.
 
How does it not follow?
 
4:18 PM
@nwp it does.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Teslas already sense what's around them pretty well though.
 
Ell
@Griwes it does't account for infinite files
:D
 
nwp
Because you can make an infinite never repeating series that provably does not contain something?
 
Ell
@nwp go on then
 
like pi + 1/9?
 
nwp
4:19 PM
For example pi could never contain a 1 and still be infinite and never repeating, and you would never find the file containing a 1 in pi.
 
> Predicting Languages with Racist Neural Networks
@Mysticial ye
 
@nwp Go on the, do prove that pi doesn't contain the recording of me performing Leonard Cohen's Avalanche on a concert this last December, encoded as 320kbps mp3.
 
@JerryCoffin I know, read further :D
 
@nwp You're correct--it doesn't imply that.
 
@nwp if it's not repeating, then you're bound to find a sequence of a given size sooner or later
 
4:20 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yup.
 
(This is extra difficult since even I don't have that recording yet, since I didn't bother the guy who recorded the whole thing yet.)
@nwp In binary?
 
nwp
@Griwes in anything but binary
 
Pretty sure that an infinite and never repeating binary stream has to have both 0s and 1s. :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not necessarily. For example, consider a sequence like 12112111211112111112.... It never repeats, but it also doesn't replicate any sequence that contains anything but 1 or 2. If you prefer binary, 01001000100001000001.... It's infinite and non-repeating, but never contains two consecutive 1 bits.
 
The textbook counterexample is for i from 0 to whatever: add a 1 followed by i zeros.
 
4:22 PM
@JerryCoffin you can map that to 0-9 range quite trivially though (treating it as binary for one)
 
@nwp Not-binary doesn't matter, since we typically store files in a binary form.
 
if you have al digits at least once in the sequence you can encode any file as several sequences of pi digits
 
Ell
@nwp yeah I think binary should have been specified
 
Go on, do prove that there's something that isn't there in the binary form of pi, get it peer reviewed and published if it's sooo, sooo easy to prove.
 
Ell
for clarity if anything
 
4:23 PM
@JerryCoffin ok
 
@ratchetfreak You just need to subsequences of those: 0, and 1.
 
27
Q: Can any finite bit string be found in pi within a reasonable amount of time?

cstaikosSo, a while back I read a joke that went something like this: "Never compute pi in binary - because it goes on infinitely and is random, it theoretically contains every finite bit string. So, you will then possess all copyrighted material in existence and be liable for some serious fines." ...

 
Not a bold claim.
 
@Mysticial Precisely
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you can use that for compression if you find other sequences that are longer than it takes to express offset+length
 
4:25 PM
@Mysticial that makes me wonder if you could find spots violating this "extreme probability"
they're like hash collisions
spots that come very early in the pi that "shouldn't" be there, but are.
 
like the decimal sequence 999999
 
@ratchetfreak See the linked question above.
> To generalize this, even if you had infinite digits of Pi (which theoretically holds all possible information), the address that holds data XXX will (with extreme probability) be as large as XXX itself.
 
@BartekBanachewicz 141592 violates this "extreme probability" because it starts at offset 1 whereas most other 6 digit sequences have 6 digit offsets.
 
that was an easy one ;)
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it would be very handy for Mystical because he would not need to keep all those hard drives anymore and just say pi from digit 1 to some trillions. Easy world record.
 
4:28 PM
imagine a 128-bit key coming at 30-something bits
 
@BartekBanachewicz At least early in Pi (the parts that have been studied in a fair amount of detail), it fits pretty closely with that statistics you'd expect from a random sequence. In other words, if you pick an arbitrary location/length, the chances of one sequence of digits happening there is about the same as the chances of another.
 
@nwp There's an easier way to compress pi.
We've been using it all along in this discussion.
It's "pi".
 
if you replace pi with a custom constructed sequence containing substrings likely to appear in a file then you will have a win. The most logical sequence to take if the file you are compressing. Now you have a LZ compressor
 
nwp
@JerryCoffin I remember hearing about a study that looked at pairs of digits and found some correlation, something like "after a 6 you have a 12% chance to find a 7".
 
@Mysticial Roughly the same is true for any early offset/length you choose. If you just pick the initial 1, it's "unlikely" because there's only a 1 in 10 chance of that occurring there. If you choose the first two, there's only a 1 in 100 chance of that sequence occurring there (and so on). So yeah, for the first six digits, there's only a 1 in 10^ -6 chance of that occurring there by random chance--but precisely the same is true of every other six digit sequence you could put in its place.
 
4:34 PM
@JerryCoffin It's actually pretty easy to prove a bounds on this "extreme probability". No more than 10% of N-digit sequences will have an offset of less than N because there isn't enough space in 10^(N-1) to hold more than 10% of all N-digit sequences.
 
nwp
@Mysticial Did you consider overlappings?
 
@nwp That already considers the worst case assuming that, even with overlapping, you are able to generate no more than 10^(N-1) different N-digit sequences in 10^(N-1)
 
@nwp It The number of starting positions for those sequences is 10^(N-1).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Though it's interesting to see on average how many unique N-digit sequences you would find in 10^(N-1) starting positions. It's certainly bounded by 10^(N-1). Based on collision theory you'd expect around sqrt(10^(N-1)) collisions. And possibly even less if you consider the overlap.
 
nwp
4:48 PM
apparently @sbi found some interesting patterns in pi
is it racist when I say gorillas all look the same?
 
Ell
it's just incorrect :P
 
5:27 PM
@fredoverflow not the point
 
@fredoverflow I used to bash TDD a lot. But then I realized that I do a lot of it myself without knowing it.
But I still like to bash the classic "TDD cycle".
 
Ell
@fredoverflow I didn't really have an opinion of Uncle Bob before
I'd just heard of him
but now I think he's terrible :P
 
nwp
@Mysticial Same probably applies to design patterns.
 
People get very confused about TDD thinking it means you have to write tests first, it's not, it just means you let the testing drive and control the development. Just fucking test people ¬_¬
 
@Ell I don't think terrible is quite right. Nonetheless, a lot of people treat "uncle Bob says ..." about the way a born-again cretin christian treats "the Bible says", and that's pretty close to idiotic.
 
Ell
5:35 PM
Okay, "terrible" is an exaggeration :)
but it's not a good impression for sure
 
@thecoshman Well, quite a few of the advocates do claim that you absolutely must write tests first (among other things).
 
5:48 PM
@Mysticial Testing as you develop your code is fine. Incremental development and refactoring can even lead to some decent code on a local level--but assuming that a good (or even decent) overall architecture is at all likely to emerge from this process without overall guidance is close to pure nonsense.
It's a bit like building a road. Deciding where a road should go, and building the road suitably for the underlying terrain are pretty much two separate things. A road doesn't become useful just by being really smooth. It has to go places people actually want to go.
 
@Mysticial I learned that it shouldn't be called TDD because the word 'test' obsfucates what was actually intended
 
user1804599
6:28 PM
@Ven Implicit conversions are awful.
 
user1804599
@Ven Which one?
 
Ell
@rightfold not all of them
 
user1804599
All of them!
 
@JerryCoffin In my cases, for any non-trivial function for which I already have a somewhat clearly defined functionality, (inputs, outputs, contraints) I usually end up writing the necessary tools to test it first (but not the test itself).
Then I start working on the function itself. Only when that's done, or "sufficiently working" then I write the actual test itself.
 
@Mysticial IMO, that's a perfectly fine way to do things. At least based on what he's written, Kent Beck wouldn't hesitate to pronounce both of us infidels.
 
Ven
 
Ell
@rightfold what about (pointer to child) to (pointer to base)?
 
Ven
@Ell OMG SUBTYPING!111
 
user1804599
@Ell Breaks type inference; make it explicit like in OCaml.
 
Ven
6:34 PM
@rightfold the one with... a clown, melonball, and some other things. I think.
 
user1804599
No idea. :P
 
Ell
@rightfold type inference is broken anyway
 
@JerryCoffin The biggest example of that in Pi program was the entire disk swapping functionality. After I had a working disk swapping interface, the first thing I implemented was a way to compute (large number) mod (small prime number). It's not a particularly useful function itself, but it makes it possible to test all the large number arithmetic that otherwise cannot be done in ram to compare with the ram-only implementation.
 
Ell
if you're using a dependently typed language anyway :P
> "broken"
 
user1804599
@Ven :scala:
 
6:37 PM
@Mysticial There mere fact that it worked (or even that it worked really well), and can be expected to do so again, seems to be of no consequence to true believers.
 
Ven
@rightfold :c
 
user1804599
:3
 
@Borgleader wtf
@JerryCoffin Fortunately, math tends to work regardless of whether it fits in ram or not.
The only problem with that particular approach is that it doesn't tell you what's wrong when the test fails.
The modulus didn't match. That 100 billion x 100 billion digit multiply I spent the past 1 hour running isn't correct. But I have no fucking clue where the error is
 
How do you know it isn't correct?
 
@StackedCrooked (A mod p) * (B mod p) mod p == A*B mod p
 
Ell
6:44 PM
@Morwenn this was spicier than a vindaloo :P
 
@Mysticial I meant the fact that your development method worked doesn't change the fact that according to Kent Beck you're doing it all wrong and you're almost certainly an evil person. :-) OTOH, the only code I've looked at the Kent Beck was involved with writing was JUnit. IMO, that's a pretty good reason to believe he's clueless about how to write good (or even merely decent) software. :-)
 
The typical workflow is that I generate two really large operands A and B. I compute their modulus over p. Then I multiply A and B together using the multiply function that I'm working on. And verify the modulus at the end.
I usually start smaller (a few thousand digits). That's where it's small enough where when it breaks, I can actually compare the result with an alternate (known to be working) implementation and sort it out.
 
Ell
@Ven you should have linked this to me earlier so I could have corrected him -.-
 
Then I scale up. Once I cross the memory barrier, it mostly becomes a "pass" or "fail" kid of thing. Debugging is really difficult at those sizes. And so far I've been able to avoid doing so since I still don't have a disk-swapping compare operator.
But the point is that I can easily verify an extremely large integer multiply without having to compare with another implementation - one that may not even exist yet.
 
7:12 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought unsigned indices for like vector was bad? If so, why is Rust using it for their vector indexing (instead of isize for example)?
 
@Borgleader Because the Rust people aren't omniscient and still don't quite realize what a problem this is?
 
Ell
vectors should be indexed by Nat :D
 
7:28 PM
@Ell I can't entirely agree. Nat's a decent enough programmer, I guess, but he always seems to get fencepost errors when he's indexing vectors. Probably better to let somebody else handle that job...
 
Ell
Okay, Jerry then ;)
 
@Ell Not sure how spicy it is. I'm used to eat the spiciest things in the restaurants, but i France it's hard to find actually spicy stuff :/
 
Ell
@Morwenn do you know how spicy a jalfrezi is?
 
However, I found something too spicy for me when I went to Beijing:
 
@Ell I mostly avoid indexing into vectors at all. I just use algorithms or range-based for loops. :-)
 
7:31 PM
@Ell Never heard that name.
 
@Borgleader because Rust's unsigned types aren't fucked up.
 
Ell
@Morwenn I only really know classic british indian curries :(
 
@Ell The ones I've eaten when I lived in Plymouth were great :o
 
Ell
I love a good curry
 
I plan to spend a drunkard weekend over there during the summer.
 
Ell
7:38 PM
I've never been to Plymouth
 
It's a decent town. Quite good when you're a pedestrian.
It's somewhat easier for me to go to Plymouth than to go to Paris.
The album is finally there /o/
 
@Ell It's average, right?
 
Wait
@Morwenn is coming the UK?
 
Plymouth is almost French x)
 
@Ell Anywhere from medium-ish to head-exploding.
 
7:41 PM
lol
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel as jerry aludes to it depends where you go, but I would call it hot rather than medium
I would say a dansak is average
dansak < madras < jalfrezi < vindaloo < phal
or something like that :V
and ofc I missed out lots of other ones but
 
@Ell had vindaloo from my favourite place yesterday but somehow there was no heat ._.
 
Ell
@LucDanton how can they even call it a vindaloo? :(
 
Eh, today I wish moves were destructive in C++.
 
@Ell With the proviso that the ranges overlap a lot so one place's jalfrezi can be hotter than another place's vindaloo (for example).
 
7:45 PM
Vindaloo is hot lava.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not to be mistaken for "Hot Java".
 
@EtiennedeMartel I need to try that :o
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin yep
 
8:12 PM
I spotted @sehe having fun in the snow /cc @Borgleader @jaggedSpire
 
\o/
Both of my little darlings are sick, vomiting and higher temperature. It is breaking my heart.
 
Ell
:(
 
0
Q: Why is type checking expensive?

user3325789I've heard many anecdotes that a large problem with dynamically typed languages is that type checking is very slow. Why is it slow though? What is the computer science rational that using runtime assigned types that may change cause large slowdowns in computational efficiency?

^^ It's also slow when you have to debug why adding 2 objects give you a NaN.
 
8:33 PM
When you almost randommly change stolen code without exactly understanding what you're doing, and it ends up working again.
 
@Morwenn Heh. Test it well.
 
@wilx My testsuite is already pretty ok for that. Actually I generally write the tests first when adding new agorithms to the library now.
Generally, it then becomes a matter of: does it work with move-only types? Does it work with types that are not default-constructible? Does it handle projections? Does it work with proxy iterators?
I've got tests for that much, which means that I've only got to add a few lines to the testsuite, watch the algorithm explode, then implement the missing features.
Then if it compiles (which is sometimes difficult enough), it's likely to work.
Just in case I also test the algorithms with a type that detects when its value is read after it has been moved from.
 
Ven
@Ell huh?
 
Ell
@Ven he said anamorphisms are guaranteed to terminate :3
 
> Un appel sortant ne peut pas être effectué étant donné que l’application répartit un appel entrant synchrone.
 
Ell
8:43 PM
which is incorrect
 
Ven
nonono what do you mean by "earlier"
 
Ell
oh, no I was just kidding :P
 
Ven
I linked it to you when I saw it. I just sometimes browse twitter, I don't have an account
 
Some people at work are French. Like any French, they don't speak English. And their CLR helpfully translates exception messages when they're put in the error report.
 
Ell
yeah, I was just joking :) I meant I wish you'd linked it to me the minute after he said it so I could correct him before somebody else did :P
 
8:44 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Terrible idea.
Never work with frenchmen.
They might use camembert. It's super effective.
 
They smoke a lot. It's weird.
It's almost like smoking is still cool over there.
What a backwards culture.
 
Too many people smoking :/
Fortunately, it's only « cool » in high schools now.
 
Yeah but the people there will grow up and still be addicted.
Although if Le Pen gets elected it won't be an issue anyway.
 
Of course it will be an issue: more people will move to Canada x)
 
And then they'll buy overpriced snow coats.
You don't need arctic gear to survive here, alright, just layer up.
 
8:58 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Definitely the right way to go.
 
My arms can still be nude near 0°C if there isn't too much wind, by I don't think I could handle far-below-zero temperatures :/
 
Much like software, alternating hard (wind/water proof) and soft (insulating) layers tends to work out particularly well.
 
Hardwear and softwear.
 

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